With FA basically over, the Giants have not accomplished what they set out to do. DG said two important things in his combine press conference. First, that they want to use FA to get enough players so they can pick BPA in the draft.
Second, that “Last time I checked it’s really difficult to complete a pass when you’re on your back.” Or in other words our current OL isn’t adequate. Well, at the moment Solder, Fleming and Pulley (Gates?) are all likely starters on the OL. If that is true then they haven’t used FA to get enough players so they can pick BPA in the draft.
Now, to be fair I never thought they could accomplish getting enough players in FA so they could pick BPA in the draft. There were far too many needs and only certain players are available in FA
So, given that you can rarely count on any draft choice past the 2nd round to become an immediate starter, what does that mean for the draft. Are you comfortable with Solder, Fleming and Pulley (Gates?). Can they pass on a tackle in the 1st and a center in the 2nd.
We cant sign everyone and there werent many OL available that are worth the money. I think we were always going to make this an OL heavy draft and im fine with that
For me, it's whether DG will/can trade down and still pick up the OT of his preference (same grade) or will he stay at 4 to pick "his guy."
We cant sign everyone and there werent many OL available that are worth the money. I think we were always going to make this an OL heavy draft and im fine with that
So OLs 1 and 2 even if they're not "BPA".
I also fully expect to be disappointed after the first round of the draft.
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i dont think they failed at all Bill.
We cant sign everyone and there werent many OL available that are worth the money. I think we were always going to make this an OL heavy draft and im fine with that
So OLs 1 and 2 even if they're not "BPA".
they may go BPA but Bill you cant shop hungry right? we cant force it if the OL talent isnt there in FA....
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In comment 14847940 BleedBlue said:
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i dont think they failed at all Bill.
We cant sign everyone and there werent many OL available that are worth the money. I think we were always going to make this an OL heavy draft and im fine with that
So OLs 1 and 2 even if they're not "BPA".
they may go BPA but Bill you cant shop hungry right? we cant force it if the OL talent isnt there in FA....
Agree, but that doesn't answer the question. Stay with who we have on the OL or draft OLs no matter what.
The bottom line is this roster is not a one offseason fix, you've got to look further down the line in terms of finished product. It is quite possible the 2020 Giants return some players who won't be here in 2021, just because they need to field a team in 2020.
I hope they won't force OL picks in the draft, but it's quite possible they could because a number of jobs are a stake.
For me, it's whether DG will/can trade down and still pick up the OT of his preference (same grade) or will he stay at 4 to pick "his guy."
Exactly what I think will happen as well.
The bottom line is this roster is not a one offseason fix, you've got to look further down the line in terms of finished product. It is quite possible the 2020 Giants return some players who won't be here in 2021, just because they need to field a team in 2020.
I hope they won't force OL picks in the draft, but it's quite possible they could because a number of jobs are a stake.
I agree, but to this point and to address bill
picking becton or wills at 4 isnt forcing anything. they are ranked near there. taking a center at 4 is forcing a pick because there arent any ranked THAT highly
so sure, could they go OL over simmons when they have simmons 4 and the OT 6 or whatever...sure but thats not really forcing picks. thats where need meets BPA. lucky for us, i think #4 is a great spot to go OT as need does come close to meeting BPA
The bottom line is this roster is not a one offseason fix, you've got to look further down the line in terms of finished product. It is quite possible the 2020 Giants return some players who won't be here in 2021, just because they need to field a team in 2020.
I hope they won't force OL picks in the draft, but it's quite possible they could because a number of jobs are a stake.
Exactly. I think they'll take OLs at the top of the draft. Can't see an alternative.
Don't tell the Simmons folks that.
I would have liked to see us sign Bulaga or Conklin to play RT, but they both had some question marks and other aggressive suitors
This team is in bad shape. It is not a few players away. The worst thing they could have done - which they have done in recent years - is spend future cap room on overrated unrestricted free agents (they are almost ALL overrated now).
The best way to build a team is to draft well, re-sign the right draft picks on their second deals, and sprinkle in smart, non-cap destroying free agents.
Spoiler alert.... the Giants aren't going to the Super Bowl in 2020. And they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The fact that Judge can't even bring his team together in April is a terrible situation for a new coach too.
If they mortgaged the future on high priced names at Edge and Tackle there would be just as many threads calling it a failure.
(Yes I get it...the Giants have been bad, they only warrant pessimism blah blah). If everything they do is gonna draw the ire of fans, why do they even engage in off-season discussions? It's mind boggling.
exactly. a GM will NEVER say he wasnt highest on our board lol
why would they do that to their newest player? why would they let any info about how they do business out? the PC answer is always, we love him, he is the highest on our board
This team is in bad shape. It is not a few players away. The worst thing they could have done - which they have done in recent years - is spend future cap room on overrated unrestricted free agents (they are almost ALL overrated now).
The best way to build a team is to draft well, re-sign the right draft picks on their second deals, and sprinkle in smart, non-cap destroying free agents.
Spoiler alert.... the Giants aren't going to the Super Bowl in 2020. And they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The fact that Judge can't even bring his team together in April is a terrible situation for a new coach too.
Couldn't agree more. They would have been in a tough spot no matter how FA went as I said. But the OL seemed a priority based on what DG said and that's what is left undone. With Jones and Barkley I can't see how it can't be left as is.
Be ahead of the game: Penei Sewell. Will be a top 3-5 pick next year. Chances are the 2020 NYG will be in the running for him. Yes, I think we’re gonna be top 5 bad again this year.
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They always are eh? Haha.
exactly. a GM will NEVER say he wasnt highest on our board lol
why would they do that to their newest player? why would they let any info about how they do business out? the PC answer is always, we love him, he is the highest on our board
He actually said Jones had the same grade as Allen though...
The other point I was going to make is regarding the draft vs FA. Believe me, teams take a hard look as to what is available in the draft before making FA decision. With this years tackle and C class, I would not be shocked if they felt comfortable finding contributors in the 3rd or 4th round this year. Not the case for MLB where really only 2 players can be looked at as starters in the draft. CB has a big fall off after Okudah.
As for the pass rush, yes having a big name guy is a huge advantage, but sacks are a team effort. Bringing in Clowney to face a triple team is worthless if your other players can't get there. They are obviously taking the approach of building a base on defense before making the big splash. This is the right approach.
Always. I laugh at the BPA mantra. Maybe I m wrong though. Maybe the Giants are just lucky enough each year that when their turn comes in the draft, the BPA just happens to be a position of need.
But the Nate Solder contract is a warning. His signing was a disaster for the team. Throwing money at a problem is usually the smart way to fix something. The guy had never been to a Pro Bowl... not even close... and they made him the highest paid OL in football.
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
He will be an immediate starter at one of the Tackle spots.
If they signed JC, you are paying huge money for both tackles and the guy you drafted doesn't have a spot. If you miss out on the top tackle, then who plays LT next year or the year after?
Center is certainly a glaring hole. Not sure what the plan is there.
Which would probably take a cluster draft with 3 OL in say the first 4(?) rounds. I'm ok with that.
Fackrel and Fleming provide coverage in areas which we will be adding to in the draft.
CB and LB are not the needs they were before FA and edge and Tackle were always gonna need to be doubled up on.
They clearly determined there was better talent at OT and Edge in the draft then FA.
Only thing not addressed at all has been C.
and BPA being a tackle when there are 4 going top 11 is not a stretch.
Has any GM anywhere ever said, "Well we had him ranked lower on our board, but we needed X position so we took him?" I think not.
He will be an immediate starter at one of the Tackle spots.
If they signed JC, you are paying huge money for both tackles and the guy you drafted doesn't have a spot. If you miss out on the top tackle, then who plays LT next year or the year after?
Center is certainly a glaring hole. Not sure what the plan is there.
Exactly what I hope for and I think will happen.
But the Nate Solder contract is a warning. His signing was a disaster for the team. Throwing money at a problem is usually the smart way to fix something. The guy had never been to a Pro Bowl... not even close... and they made him the highest paid OL in football.
You're preaching to the choir Eric but there isn't starting OL talent left in FA that I can see so I think drafting OL early ad often is the only solution.
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they need two tackles, and a C, and swing interior OL in the pipeline.
Which would probably take a cluster draft with 3 OL in say the first 4(?) rounds. I'm ok with that.
It doesn't have to be all done in this draft, that's the short view mistake. Fans look at the season at hand, but building a roster requires a long view beyond 2020.
The Giants are in Year One of their re-build.
That means:
(1) Go gentle with Free Agency;
(2) The Draft means everything;
The Giants have accomplished #1.
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and DG speaks to the media, the player will have been the highest prospect on their board either way.
Has any GM anywhere ever said, "Well we had him ranked lower on our board, but we needed X position so we took him?" I think not.
That's what I was saying.
Never said you could build a team in FA. Just quoted our GM on his perspective and what he said was his priority.
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In comment 14847988 JonC said:
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they need two tackles, and a C, and swing interior OL in the pipeline.
Which would probably take a cluster draft with 3 OL in say the first 4(?) rounds. I'm ok with that.
It doesn't have to be all done in this draft, that's the short view mistake. Fans look at the season at hand, but building a roster requires a long view beyond 2020.
Absolutely Jon but are you trotting out Jones and Barkley behind the current OL. I think they have to make a significant improvement or Jones and Barkley will suffer and that'snot acceptable.