With FA basically over, the Giants have not accomplished what they set out to do. DG said two important things in his combine press conference. First, that they want to use FA to get enough players so they can pick BPA in the draft.
Second, that “Last time I checked it’s really difficult to complete a pass when you’re on your back.” Or in other words our current OL isn’t adequate. Well, at the moment Solder, Fleming and Pulley (Gates?) are all likely starters on the OL. If that is true then they haven’t used FA to get enough players so they can pick BPA in the draft.
Now, to be fair I never thought they could accomplish getting enough players in FA so they could pick BPA in the draft. There were far too many needs and only certain players are available in FA
So, given that you can rarely count on any draft choice past the 2nd round to become an immediate starter, what does that mean for the draft. Are you comfortable with Solder, Fleming and Pulley (Gates?). Can they pass on a tackle in the 1st and a center in the 2nd.
This team is in bad shape. It is not a few players away. The worst thing they could have done - which they have done in recent years - is spend future cap room on overrated unrestricted free agents (they are almost ALL overrated now).
The best way to build a team is to draft well, re-sign the right draft picks on their second deals, and sprinkle in smart, non-cap destroying free agents.
Spoiler alert.... the Giants aren't going to the Super Bowl in 2020. And they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The fact that Judge can't even bring his team together in April is a terrible situation for a new coach too.
^This. We're several years away from being able to compete. I'm not a fan of signing big name FAs. I probably would have passed on Martinez and Bradberry. The good news is that the contracts are front loaded to avoid a lot of bad cap ramifications three years from now.
A work in progress, indeed.
Overdrafted need picks happen every year, in the past 5 years I can remember L.J. Collier, Terrell Burgess, Corey Davis. Keanu Neal, Karl Joseph, Ereck Flowers.
Carroll isn’t afraid to admit it and Reese just became defensive and arrogant when questioned. Eli Apple was one of the worst picks of this decade.
That's the point here. What will the team do given what they have invested already (Jones and Barkley) and what they haven't fixed. DG's words weren't just smoke. He was right about both the things I mentioned in the OP.
Just think what turds Reese would have overpaid in FA?
I couldn't stand what direction this team was going to under Jerry Reese.
With the brand new coaching staff, which I am pretty sure are putting their collective 2 cents in on decision making, I'm confident that the Giants will be a better team in the upcoming season.
A work in progress, indeed.
Yes, indeed.
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
Dallas and Philadelphia are light years ahead of the NYG. And, I hate to say it, but Washington is probably more talented as well and are going to get the draft’s best player by a significant margin.
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which hits the right notes and inspires confidence and optimism ... but, there's no guarantee the supply will match up with demand, and it has not entirely. Watch what adults do, not what they say, as Bill2 would astutely point out.
That's the point here. What will the team do given what they have invested already (Jones and Barkley) and what they haven't fixed. DG's words weren't just smoke. He was right about both the things I mentioned in the OP.
He was, but few answers available in UFA. Now we look to the draft, but also need to acknowledge it could fall similarly to UFA. 31 other teams out there. It could be they draft a tackle starter at #4 and C waits a year, for example.
I try to manage my expectations and recognize there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of competition for the same talent, and not everything will likely be addressed in 2020.
For many others, the heart gets in the way.
We did sign some younger players that can play with us for a long term of 3-4 years. They may not be the best but at least we wont have to replace them next year.
What we need out of the draft is 2 top end starters. It doesnt have to be on the OL, they just have to be positions that we currently have a need. It could come from OT, C, Edge, LB CB and FS. If we can get 2 starters to fill those spots in the draft we can hopefully finish up next season. If we just keep plugging holes of players that we lose like we did this year we are just running on a treadmill on the lowest setting. Not going anywhere.
We need to build the Oline through the draft. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to spend the #4 pick on Oline --I'm of the belief top 5 picks need to be blue chip prospects or franchise QBs-- but if we pass on Oline with our top pick we better be prepared in round 2, or even consider trade up back into round 1, and we better start building the pipeline.
You are a good 2 rounds late on your 4th and 5th names
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But who doesn't ?
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
Dallas and Philadelphia are light years ahead of the NYG. And, I hate to say it, but Washington is probably more talented as well and are going to get the draft’s best player by a significant margin.
Boss, you are such a miserable, negative guy. the skins are better than us?!? GET THE FUCK OUT lol
They arent better than us at all....they have a TON of holes, most importantly, who is their QB?
they are getting young and we are getting a good player at 4...its not like they have 5 firsts and we have no picks....
geez your take is soooo negative and so off base. you wanna say boys n eagles are ahead fine, but skins are not
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In comment 14848029 JonC said:
He was, but few answers available in UFA. Now we look to the draft, but also need to acknowledge it could fall similarly to UFA. 31 other teams out there. It could be they draft a tackle starter at #4 and C waits a year, for example.
I try to manage my expectations and recognize there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of competition for the same talent, and not everything will likely be addressed in 2020.
For many others, the heart gets in the way.
I have no problem with what they did in FA. It's what they weren't able to do that matters now and that's not a criticism. Just hope it breaks our way. It's been a while.
Sum up this FA period..."Yawn"
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In comment 14848006 George from PA said:
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But who doesn't ?
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
Dallas and Philadelphia are light years ahead of the NYG. And, I hate to say it, but Washington is probably more talented as well and are going to get the draft’s best player by a significant margin.
Boss, you are such a miserable, negative guy. the skins are better than us?!? GET THE FUCK OUT lol
They arent better than us at all....they have a TON of holes, most importantly, who is their QB?
they are getting young and we are getting a good player at 4...its not like they have 5 firsts and we have no picks....
geez your take is soooo negative and so off base. you wanna say boys n eagles are ahead fine, but skins are not
I was just about to comment on this! Jeez, what a take.
I have a feeling he would be the same person mid season telling fans to stop praising the team for beating an awful Washington team and then also tell us in the offseason Washington has more talent. Head scratcher.
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In comment 14848006 George from PA said:
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But who doesn't ?
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
Dallas and Philadelphia are light years ahead of the NYG. And, I hate to say it, but Washington is probably more talented as well and are going to get the draft’s best player by a significant margin.
Boss, you are such a miserable, negative guy. the skins are better than us?!? GET THE FUCK OUT lol
They arent better than us at all....they have a TON of holes, most importantly, who is their QB?
they are getting young and we are getting a good player at 4...its not like they have 5 firsts and we have no picks....
geez your take is soooo negative and so off base. you wanna say boys n eagles are ahead fine, but skins are not
While I acknowledge they have holes, as do we, they can hang their hat on a very good front 7 on defense. It could be scary good in 2020. Their secondary needs help, yes. Their OL is going to need to be rebuilt, but they appear to have better building blocks than the NYG. Their offensive weaponry is average and yes Haskins needs to prove it, but his last 2 starts were promising. And while I’m glad he didn’t come here, Rivera is a coach who knows what he’s doing. It’s close between us. I’m giving us 2 wins over them right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we split.
It is possible that he lands immediate starters at OT and OC in the draft, but that is a big ask, and would almost certainly mean our needs at ER and WR are pushed down in priority.
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I can see them being comfortable with any of the top 4 centers in the draft as long as there is value. 2nd- Ruiz 3rd- Biadasz 4th- Cushenberry 5th- Hennessy. They have a lot of options.
You are a good 2 rounds late on your 4th and 5th names
Dave-Te' Thomas said yesterday on his podcast about centers, that the only one he'd consider is Hennessy, says he a future pro bowler. The rest he wouldn't bother with until day 3. He says it's a bad year for centers
RB yards before contact of all NFL teams - ( New Window )
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In comment 14848056 The_Boss said:
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In comment 14848006 George from PA said:
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But who doesn't ?
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
Dallas and Philadelphia are light years ahead of the NYG. And, I hate to say it, but Washington is probably more talented as well and are going to get the draft’s best player by a significant margin.
Boss, you are such a miserable, negative guy. the skins are better than us?!? GET THE FUCK OUT lol
They arent better than us at all....they have a TON of holes, most importantly, who is their QB?
they are getting young and we are getting a good player at 4...its not like they have 5 firsts and we have no picks....
geez your take is soooo negative and so off base. you wanna say boys n eagles are ahead fine, but skins are not
While I acknowledge they have holes, as do we, they can hang their hat on a very good front 7 on defense. It could be scary good in 2020. Their secondary needs help, yes. Their OL is going to need to be rebuilt, but they appear to have better building blocks than the NYG. Their offensive weaponry is average and yes Haskins needs to prove it, but his last 2 starts were promising. And while I’m glad he didn’t come here, Rivera is a coach who knows what he’s doing. It’s close between us. I’m giving us 2 wins over them right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we split.
YOU ARE NUTS.
first off giants DL is lining up to be just as good as washingtons. we need LBers and our front is right there.
their secondary IS A JOKE bad and they just lost probably their best tow corners which isnt saying much.
on offense they have mcclaurin and scherf thats about it. they need a RB, OL, TE, more WRs and the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. QB...
they are NOT in a better situation than us at all. that viewpoint is a wildly negative view and honestly inaccurate
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In comment 14848066 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 14848056 The_Boss said:
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In comment 14848006 George from PA said:
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But who doesn't ?
Dallas has gotten weaker.
The Eagles might be team to beat...but I feel we are getting closer...
So I will not have definitive declaration....
yes, the Giants have too many holes to fill in FA. A new staff under current condition is an added hurdle....but we are getting better....we have gotten closer to Dallas and Philadelphia...so who knows.
Let hope.the draft is a home run
Dallas and Philadelphia are light years ahead of the NYG. And, I hate to say it, but Washington is probably more talented as well and are going to get the draft’s best player by a significant margin.
Boss, you are such a miserable, negative guy. the skins are better than us?!? GET THE FUCK OUT lol
They arent better than us at all....they have a TON of holes, most importantly, who is their QB?
they are getting young and we are getting a good player at 4...its not like they have 5 firsts and we have no picks....
geez your take is soooo negative and so off base. you wanna say boys n eagles are ahead fine, but skins are not
While I acknowledge they have holes, as do we, they can hang their hat on a very good front 7 on defense. It could be scary good in 2020. Their secondary needs help, yes. Their OL is going to need to be rebuilt, but they appear to have better building blocks than the NYG. Their offensive weaponry is average and yes Haskins needs to prove it, but his last 2 starts were promising. And while I’m glad he didn’t come here, Rivera is a coach who knows what he’s doing. It’s close between us. I’m giving us 2 wins over them right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we split.
YOU ARE NUTS.
first off giants DL is lining up to be just as good as washingtons. we need LBers and our front is right there.
their secondary IS A JOKE bad and they just lost probably their best tow corners which isnt saying much.
on offense they have mcclaurin and scherf thats about it. they need a RB, OL, TE, more WRs and the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. QB...
they are NOT in a better situation than us at all. that viewpoint is a wildly negative view and honestly inaccurate
We won’t know until next season. That’s the last I’ll say on the Redskins.
And if DG said he was going to fill up his entire Roster via free agent signings (not sure he did) then he wasn't thinking.
Which isn't a surprise.
RB yards before contact 2019 - ( New Window )
It is possible that he lands immediate starters at OT and OC in the draft, but that is a big ask, and would almost certainly mean our needs at ER and WR are pushed down in priority.
Thanks. And I thought FA went pretty well given what was out there. I think an OT in the 1st seems like a good pick from a value and need perspective. Hope there is an OC in the 2nd that is the same.
It's fucking madness.
Sounds logical and familiar.
Sounds logical and familiar.
Sounds revolutionary to me.
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In comment 14847961 JonC said:
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and DG speaks to the media, the player will have been the highest prospect on their board either way.
Has any GM anywhere ever said, "Well we had him ranked lower on our board, but we needed X position so we took him?" I think not.
That's what I was saying.
Apologies if I misinterpreted, but it sounded like the all-to-familiar gratuitous shot at DG. He's hardly perfect, but I kind of like what he's done overall. Now that there's a set direction (thanks Judge, I think) I can see DG rising to the occasion. Nothing necessarily spectacular, but solid gains in the Draft.
It's fucking madness.
Did you bother to actually read the OP. Just what about anything I said is "fucking madness".
This team is in bad shape. It is not a few players away. The worst thing they could have done - which they have done in recent years - is spend future cap room on overrated unrestricted free agents (they are almost ALL overrated now).
The best way to build a team is to draft well, re-sign the right draft picks on their second deals, and sprinkle in smart, non-cap destroying free agents.
Spoiler alert.... the Giants aren't going to the Super Bowl in 2020. And they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The fact that Judge can't even bring his team together in April is a terrible situation for a new coach too.
Not only will they not make the playoffs, their record is not likely to be any better next season(2020). They have finally embraced a complete tear down. The guys signed this year are to put a team on the field and start to install Judge's offense and defense. Hopefully those signed will be part of the solution. If they are not, the way the contracts are structured they can be let go without penalty.
I am very much a Simmons fan, but I am hoping he can work a deal for a short trade back for at least a 2nd round pick and get OT, OC and OLB/ER.
No matter what the lip service, need is, in my unqualified opinion, ALWAYS a factor in draft picks. Let's hope that DG et al pick Beasts who also qualifiy as Beauties ;).
Like a lot of people on here, I'm hugely impressed with Joe Judge, but I imagine it might have been a sobering experience when he ran the rub over the Giants roster and saw how much improvement is required. So, I'm not expecting a huge turnaround, but if we could get to 7-9 or even 8-8, that would be very, very encouraging.
And if Gettleman could then retire at the end of the season, that would be the cherry.
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I’m ready. Are you?
Like a lot of people on here, I'm hugely impressed with Joe Judge, but I imagine it might have been a sobering experience when he ran the rub over the Giants roster and saw how much improvement is required. So, I'm not expecting a huge turnaround, but if we could get to 7-9 or even 8-8, that would be very, very encouraging.
And if Gettleman could then retire at the end of the season, that would be the cherry.
7 wins would be a wildly successful season in my eyes. The thing is, I have a very hard time seeing where you get 7 wins when you look at the 12 games on our schedule that aren’t vs Washington, Chicago, and Cincinnati. Just for shits and giggles: say we go 4-0 in those games. Are you confident in going 3-9 vs Arizona, Philadelphia, Dallas, SF, LA, Seattle, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland?
The funny thing is, I can't force them to make the right decision like take an OT. I can only type it here for you all.
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and a Center?
Sounds logical and familiar.
Sounds revolutionary to me.
At least more are seeing the light.
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of replies for a guy who posts about failing FA before the period is over or the players have ever taken the field.
It's fucking madness.
Did you bother to actually read the OP. Just what about anything I said is "fucking madness".
Are you fucking kidding me?
This right here qualifies:
Not only is FA not complete, but you have no idea what the Giants "set out to do".
- Judge did not go into the interview insisting on some big splash names and a breakout possibility in year one other wise their behavior would be different. Seems reading speculative tea leaves he either promoted or agreed to a step by step solid foundation for the years ahead.
- Looks like each FA they went after was the result of analysis not reacting to a deal a day market
- Looks like they had a framework to preserve cap flexibility and to drop guys who did not perform early with minimal consequences...so the structure of the deals support a solid rather than splashy/risky foundation for the next few years
- There is evidence that they set a price limit on guys and did not budge ( a BB trait) on their valuation. (for example: Moore/Clowney)
- They generally have stayed away from injured or older ( exception Dion Lewis). Again, minimizing risk
Pretty much all the same things almost all of BBI has been saying for several years.
SO so far this year they went out of the typical hiring and adopted a very thoughtful approach to re-building. Very un Jints Central. Im sure we will look to confirm our bias, but the trends so far mostly confirm to me a shift towards smart and sane. About time.
I don't care that much about this years W/L record. I want to see in the second half of the season:
A) Games won because we adjusted during the game
B) A surprise victory or two because we out gamed the opposition
C) Some surprising 4th round to UDFA contributors.
D) Fewer mistakes and a few more out prepared them Malcom Butler in exactly the right place kinds of plays.
I dunno,
But both endings are true enough
if not we trade down and draft a OT
Overdrafted need picks happen every year, in the past 5 years I can remember L.J. Collier, Terrell Burgess, Corey Davis. Keanu Neal, Karl Joseph, Ereck Flowers.
Carroll isn’t afraid to admit it and Reese just became defensive and arrogant when questioned. Eli Apple was one of the worst picks of this decade.
Hubris from two SBs, not only for Reese but the whole org.
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In comment 14848141 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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of replies for a guy who posts about failing FA before the period is over or the players have ever taken the field.
It's fucking madness.
Did you bother to actually read the OP. Just what about anything I said is "fucking madness".
Are you fucking kidding me?
This right here qualifies:
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With FA basically over, the Giants have not accomplished what they set out to do
Not only is FA not complete, but you have no idea what the Giants "set out to do".
Actually, we do know because DG said what they set out to do in his combine press conference as I explained in the OP. That you seem to want to ignore that is your problem. Further, FA, for all intents and purposes as it relates to the draft, is over as no one the can sign now will impact our top draft picks. So, both the idea that we know what they set out to do and that FA is basically over are true. Ya got anything else.
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I’m ready. Are you?
Like a lot of people on here, I'm hugely impressed with Joe Judge, but I imagine it might have been a sobering experience when he ran the rub over the Giants roster and saw how much improvement is required. So, I'm not expecting a huge turnaround, but if we could get to 7-9 or even 8-8, that would be very, very encouraging.
And if Gettleman could then retire at the end of the season, that would be the cherry.
I hope the plan is to make Garrett the GM and thats the 4D chess move of why he was brought here, otherwise its a bit strange he is our OC. Use his big old Princeton brain where it belongs.
Is his name Gabbagul or something like that?