With FA basically over, the Giants have not accomplished what they set out to do. DG said two important things in his combine press conference. First, that they want to use FA to get enough players so they can pick BPA in the draft.
Second, that “Last time I checked it’s really difficult to complete a pass when you’re on your back.” Or in other words our current OL isn’t adequate. Well, at the moment Solder, Fleming and Pulley (Gates?) are all likely starters on the OL. If that is true then they haven’t used FA to get enough players so they can pick BPA in the draft.
Now, to be fair I never thought they could accomplish getting enough players in FA so they could pick BPA in the draft. There were far too many needs and only certain players are available in FA
So, given that you can rarely count on any draft choice past the 2nd round to become an immediate starter, what does that mean for the draft. Are you comfortable with Solder, Fleming and Pulley (Gates?). Can they pass on a tackle in the 1st and a center in the 2nd.
Are you going to be another moron who puts absolutes to things said in press conferences? Have yo not seen the pitfalls that presents?
I'm not ignoring anything. Thinking a GM is stating a plan for every other team to hear is the ignorance. And you seem proud to flaunt it.
I’d like to comment on this only.
On paper, you are right....Solder, Fleming, and Gates doesn’t look formidable enough to be our starting tackles, and Pulley doesn’t look good enough to be our starting center. So, based on what you are saying, you believe it is imperative the Gmen go OT and C in rounds one and two. You can make that argument, but I have a different perspective that I hope plays out......
I think Gates will start somewhere...either RT or C. I think that depends on who we draft in rounds one and two. I believe we only need to draft one stud lineman, in either round one or round two. Since we pick high in round two, that is almost like a low end first round pick. If we draft a TACKLE in the first two rounds, then Solder and the draft pick play tackle while Gates moves to center. I’m not sure how much experience Gates has a center but I thought I read he could play that position and is versatile.
Bottom line....we don’t have to draft two OL guys first....just one. Gates plugs in somewhere. As for Fleming....we is a very good swing guy who can fill in admirably if needed. I’m not sure he can play RT though.
Quote:
Actually, we do know because DG said what they set out to do in his combine press conference as I explained in the OP. That you seem to want to ignore that is your problem
Are you going to be another moron who puts absolutes to things said in press conferences? Have yo not seen the pitfalls that presents?
I'm not ignoring anything. Thinking a GM is stating a plan for every other team to hear is the ignorance. And you seem proud to flaunt it.
First of all that they wanted to sign enough in FA to be able to pick BPA is the goal of every team in FA and obvious on it's face. To try and deny that is plain stupid. That they wanted to fix the OL is equally as obvious and equally stupid to try and deny.
The bottom line fat man is that you criticized the
OP without reading it which only a fucking idiot would do. Now, you're trying to cover you ass by denying plainly obvious things that only a fucking asshole would try and deny. Quite a parlay there fat man. Showing you're a fucking idiot and a fucking asshole in just a couple of posts.
I’d like to comment on this only.
On paper, you are right....Solder, Fleming, and Gates doesn’t look formidable enough to be our starting tackles, and Pulley doesn’t look good enough to be our starting center. So, based on what you are saying, you believe it is imperative the Gmen go OT and C in rounds one and two. You can make that argument, but I have a different perspective that I hope plays out......
I think Gates will start somewhere...either RT or C. I think that depends on who we draft in rounds one and two. I believe we only need to draft one stud lineman, in either round one or round two. Since we pick high in round two, that is almost like a low end first round pick. If we draft a TACKLE in the first two rounds, then Solder and the draft pick play tackle while Gates moves to center. I’m not sure how much experience Gates has a center but I thought I read he could play that position and is versatile.
Bottom line....we don’t have to draft two OL guys first....just one. Gates plugs in somewhere. As for Fleming....we is a very good swing guy who can fill in admirably if needed. I’m not sure he can play RT though.
That's all fair enough 5BS. however, I'm just tired out of trying to just get by on the OL. Sure, Gates could work out at C or RT but how much are you willing to risk if he doesn't. Another year with a Halapio/Pulley/Remmers level talent starting on the OL. No option if Solder turns in another dismal performance. I'd like to see the future of the OL acquired this year. No more waiting around and hoping for the best.
In the sports world the goal of a FO is to talk but say nothing.
This is especially true before a competitive lottery or auction.
Taking the literal word any GM in a major sport strikes me as valid less than 50% of the time.
Imo
OP without reading it which only a fucking idiot would do
I read every fucking word in the OP. And it is a terrible post built off of a faulty premise. From a terrible poster.
You are literally saying the Giants failed in FA. And you're saying that it is because they didn't do what Gettleman said in a press conference. The first point is unknown and the second point is taking the words from a press conference and trying to make them binding.
One is an error of logic. The other is an error of ignorance, but based on your last rambling tirade - you are proud to be a fucking moron.
hope that works out for you, Boss.
Yes, I like what they did but what they didn't do is important as well. There seems be few options going forward and that is worrisome but the talent looks like it's out there so that's good, too.
Quote:
The bottom line fat man is that you criticized the
OP without reading it which only a fucking idiot would do
I read every fucking word in the OP. And it is a terrible post built off of a faulty premise. From a terrible poster.
You are literally saying the Giants failed in FA. And you're saying that it is because they didn't do what Gettleman said in a press conference. The first point is unknown and the second point is taking the words from a press conference and trying to make them binding.
One is an error of logic. The other is an error of ignorance, but based on your last rambling tirade - you are proud to be a fucking moron.
hope that works out for you, Boss.
You're full of shit fat man. There are dozens of posts here based on the OP. No faulty premises or errors in logic. However, you're still trying to cover your ass by denying the obvious. It's got it's own kind of special humor though so do keep it up.
I’d like to comment on this only.
On paper, you are right....Solder, Fleming, and Gates doesn’t look formidable enough to be our starting tackles, and Pulley doesn’t look good enough to be our starting center. So, based on what you are saying, you believe it is imperative the Gmen go OT and C in rounds one and two. You can make that argument, but I have a different perspective that I hope plays out......
I think Gates will start somewhere...either RT or C. I think that depends on who we draft in rounds one and two. I believe we only need to draft one stud lineman, in either round one or round two. Since we pick high in round two, that is almost like a low end first round pick. If we draft a TACKLE in the first two rounds, then Solder and the draft pick play tackle while Gates moves to center. I’m not sure how much experience Gates has a center but I thought I read he could play that position and is versatile.
Bottom line....we don’t have to draft two OL guys first....just one. Gates plugs in somewhere. As for Fleming....we is a very good swing guy who can fill in admirably if needed. I’m not sure he can play RT though.
That is a hell of an Oline strategy you laid out.
It’s almost as if you have been working in the Giant front office for the past decade.
In the sports world the goal of a FO is to talk but say nothing.
This is especially true before a competitive lottery or auction.
Taking the literal word any GM in a major sport strikes me as valid less than 50% of the time.
Imo
Bill. Thanks. I do get that but there is nothing ground breaking or earth shattering about what DG said. We all knew those things before he said them. Is there something about them wanting to put themselves in a position to draft BPA or that the OL needs fixing that was news. No, there wasn't. Just trying to get folks opinions about what comes next.
This team is in bad shape. It is not a few players away. The worst thing they could have done - which they have done in recent years - is spend future cap room on overrated unrestricted free agents (they are almost ALL overrated now).
The best way to build a team is to draft well, re-sign the right draft picks on their second deals, and sprinkle in smart, non-cap destroying free agents.
Spoiler alert.... the Giants aren't going to the Super Bowl in 2020. And they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The fact that Judge can't even bring his team together in April is a terrible situation for a new coach too.
What Eric said! This is as basic a truth about the current Giants as you will find. Case closed.
I think that goes too far. We added good to very good players at all three levels of the defense. Home run type players weren't a smart get this year.
Why do I suspect most of what you know about football came from the fantasy leagues ?
Its also possible that they have the exact same goals and have decided the rest is best done through the draft.
In which case the real question will shortly be: Did the Giants fail in the 2020 talent Acquisition cycle?
Im sure we will debate that endlessly in the months ahead
Of course we will really know that answer in two years.
Anyway, just the ways I am thinking about it.
Take care
Its also possible that they have the exact same goals and have decided the rest is best done through the draft.
In which case the real question will shortly be: Did the Giants fail in the 2020 talent Acquisition cycle?
Im sure we will debate that endlessly in the months ahead
Of course we will really know that answer in two years.
Anyway, just the ways I am thinking about it.
Take care
You as well.
The coaching staff needs to be the reason we are better. Even if your not sold on Martinez Bradbury and Fackrel being better then Ogletree, Jenkins and Martin
Quote:
We supposedly did pretty well in FA so far
Yes, I like what they did but what they didn't do is important as well. There seems be few options going forward and that is worrisome but the talent looks like it's out there so that's good, too.
Bill, we are still 1-2 seasons away but this was a good foundational FA
Going in with north of 175M in space over 20/21 I would like to see him add 3 multi-year starters to the roster.
With all the speak of curves recently, at some point Gettleman needs to break the talent curve with veterans acquisitions.
You have to draft well and acquire vets well. You just don't get enough picks to rely on that solely for your core.
In 2018 I believe he added 1 veteran starter who is still on the roster (Solder). In 2019, I believe he added 2 via UFA (Tate, Mayo), and 2 via trade (Peppers, Williams).
Quote:
In comment 14848640 montanagiant said:
Quote:
We supposedly did pretty well in FA so far
Yes, I like what they did but what they didn't do is important as well. There seems be few options going forward and that is worrisome but the talent looks like it's out there so that's good, too.
Bill, we are still 1-2 seasons away but this was a good foundational FA
I certainly agree and said essentially that in the OP. Remember though we have Jones and Barkley and they will be severely compromised without a competent OL. That's a problem.
Quote:
In comment 14848662 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14848640 montanagiant said:
Quote:
We supposedly did pretty well in FA so far
Yes, I like what they did but what they didn't do is important as well. There seems be few options going forward and that is worrisome but the talent looks like it's out there so that's good, too.
Bill, we are still 1-2 seasons away but this was a good foundational FA
I certainly agree and said essentially that in the OP. Remember though we have Jones and Barkley and they will be severely compromised without a competent OL. That's a problem.
Quote:
We are not substantially any better today than last season. We had the most cap space in team history just about and added zero game changers. Very discouraging times to be a Giants fan. I’ll get ridiculed for being honest but oh well.
Why do I suspect most of what you know about football came from the fantasy leagues ?
That’s cute. But I’m actually a 3rd generation die hard fan. I’m just sick of losing and I’m not a blind loyalist. If it looks like shit, smells like shit, it’s not gonna turn into a brownie by sprinkling some sugar on it.
Blake Martinez that is eerily similar to their signing of Antonio Pierce in 2005.
James Bradberry - the second best CB available in FA who fills our biggest need in the secondary who will be in his prime for his entire contract here.
Kyler Fackrell - 1 year prove it deal for a guy who had 10.5 sacks two seasons ago playing for our new DC. Could be this years Golden.
Levine Toilolo - huge blocking TE to replace Ellison who disappointed as a blocker. He’s actually a better blocker than Ellison and should contribute more as a receiver here. He wasn’t used much as a receiver in SF because they have the best TE in football ahead of him. Toilolo’s presence will allow Engram to run more routes. This is a very underrated signing.
Cam Fleming - is familiar with Garrett’s offense obviously which will be more important if offseason activities are lost due to COVID-19. Fleming is a good swing tackle who won’t embarrass himself if he has to start. Will compete with a 1st/2nd round pick and Nick Gates for the RT job but will end up on the bench.
Colt McCoy - an intelligent, experienced backup QB who will serve as the mentor for Jones. It wouldn’t surprise me if he spends 2-3 more years here.
Nate Ebner - a very good special teams player. The special teams have improved significantly under McGauhey and they could become one of the better units in the NFL. Last year Cody Core made an immediate impact on special teams and hopefully Ebner will as well.
Blake Martinez that is eerily similar to their signing of Antonio Pierce in 2005.
James Bradberry - the second best CB available in FA who fills our biggest need in the secondary who will be in his prime for his entire contract here.
Kyler Fackrell - 1 year prove it deal for a guy who had 10.5 sacks two seasons ago playing for our new DC. Could be this years Golden.
Levine Toilolo - huge blocking TE to replace Ellison who disappointed as a blocker. He’s actually a better blocker than Ellison and should contribute more as a receiver here. He wasn’t used much as a receiver in SF because they have the best TE in football ahead of him. Toilolo’s presence will allow Engram to run more routes. This is a very underrated signing.
Cam Fleming - is familiar with Garrett’s offense obviously which will be more important if offseason activities are lost due to COVID-19. Fleming is a good swing tackle who won’t embarrass himself if he has to start. Will compete with a 1st/2nd round pick and Nick Gates for the RT job but will end up on the bench.
Colt McCoy - an intelligent, experienced backup QB who will serve as the mentor for Jones. It wouldn’t surprise me if he spends 2-3 more years here.
Nate Ebner - a very good special teams player. The special teams have improved significantly under McGauhey and they could become one of the better units in the NFL. Last year Cody Core made an immediate impact on special teams and hopefully Ebner will as well.
Jay on the Island -- I can see why BBIers are not thrilled with what the Giants have done so far. Personally, I've got no problem, but there were different approaches the Giants could have taken!
For example, look no further than our cross-town rivals. Their first year GM, Joe Douglas resisted throwing around big bucks, but look what he may well have accomplished under the radar! He has almost entirely re-built his offensive line with:
Center Connor McGovern (we could have really used this guy)
Offensive Guard Greg Van Roten
Left Tackle George Fant
Quote:
They signed:
Blake Martinez that is eerily similar to their signing of Antonio Pierce in 2005.
James Bradberry - the second best CB available in FA who fills our biggest need in the secondary who will be in his prime for his entire contract here.
Kyler Fackrell - 1 year prove it deal for a guy who had 10.5 sacks two seasons ago playing for our new DC. Could be this years Golden.
Levine Toilolo - huge blocking TE to replace Ellison who disappointed as a blocker. He’s actually a better blocker than Ellison and should contribute more as a receiver here. He wasn’t used much as a receiver in SF because they have the best TE in football ahead of him. Toilolo’s presence will allow Engram to run more routes. This is a very underrated signing.
Cam Fleming - is familiar with Garrett’s offense obviously which will be more important if offseason activities are lost due to COVID-19. Fleming is a good swing tackle who won’t embarrass himself if he has to start. Will compete with a 1st/2nd round pick and Nick Gates for the RT job but will end up on the bench.
Colt McCoy - an intelligent, experienced backup QB who will serve as the mentor for Jones. It wouldn’t surprise me if he spends 2-3 more years here.
Nate Ebner - a very good special teams player. The special teams have improved significantly under McGauhey and they could become one of the better units in the NFL. Last year Cody Core made an immediate impact on special teams and hopefully Ebner will as well.
Jay on the Island -- I can see why BBIers are not thrilled with what the Giants have done so far. Personally, I've got no problem, but there were different approaches the Giants could have taken!
For example, look no further than our cross-town rivals. Their first year GM, Joe Douglas resisted throwing around big bucks, but look what he may well have accomplished under the radar! He has almost entirely re-built his offensive line with:
Center Connor McGovern (we could have really used this guy)
Offensive Guard Greg Van Roten
Left Tackle George Fant
Fant he paid $30 Million for a guy who could not crack the starting lineup of one of the worst OL in football. With Hernandez and Zeitler didn’t make sense to spend cap space on Van Roten. McGovern I would have targeted, but that is just me.
Individual grades as well
New York Giants: Grading all the free agent signings - ( New Window )
Young players need time. The roster is filled with young talent. Now we need to coach them up and make this thing come together, sort of like 1997. It's time to coach these kids and build something.
FA was not a failure. They signed 2 starters that will upgrade their positions from the last 2 years and the blocking TE will help out in a big way.
I know this past decade sucked. The last few years were even worse. I suggest everyone here develop a short memory and forget the past, exhibit some patience and appreciate the little improvements we should see this season. And who knows, maybe they surprise. Stranger things have happened, see 1997.
I also said, heading into last season, that I wasn't as concerned about the pass rush as popular opinion, i was more concerned with the LBs and whether Shurmur was the man for the job here. Turns out the passrush wasn't really as bad as some might have thought, and the metrics back this up evidenced by the numbers we have seen where the Giants did in fact pressure the QBs at a reasonable level in 2019, but the coverage just wasn't there. In no way am I saying the passrush is good or ready, but it wasn't the sore spot, everything else was. I still feel that way about the passrush. Guys like Carter, X and the FA will have a chance to produce with the big bodies in front of them. Carter is entering year 3. X is entering year 2. Maybe they add another live body in April. Maybe the trade down, get the OT and more.
I am looking forward to 2020. I think we are finally emerging from the long dark decade of suck. I just hope this stoppage and lack of offseason cohesion doesn't hurt us. It might.
Who is the blue chip talent at WR, TE, Edge, DT, OLB, ILB, SS and FS?
Also while the Giants may go OL with #4 pick but reviews aren't for this OL class to be blue-chips...maybe few shades of lighter blue.
I'm not sure I understand this line of thinking. Because there isn't a consensus among people who don't actually select the players, we should hope that our front office lets other teams choose for them by winnowing the options?
Isn't the important thing that Gettleman, Pettit, Judge, Garrett, and Colombo reach a consensus? Does it matter whether Kiper, McShay, McGinn, and Boylhart all agree with each other?
Quote:
In comment 14848141 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of replies for a guy who posts about failing FA before the period is over or the players have ever taken the field.
It's fucking madness.
Did you bother to actually read the OP. Just what about anything I said is "fucking madness".
Are you fucking kidding me?
This right here qualifies:
Quote:
With FA basically over, the Giants have not accomplished what they set out to do
Not only is FA not complete, but you have no idea what the Giants "set out to do".
FA is not over. I like most of the guys they have signed. While none are game changers, they have added some nice depth at multiple positions. I am hoping for either Simmons or one of Becton/Wills/Wirfs at OT with the #4. The only other scenario I would like is a trade back, but we have to get a food haul of picks to make this worthwhile. I would also like an OC in round 2 or 3.