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NFT: Reopening the Economy Soon

Samiam : 3/24/2020 2:01 pm
Read in the paper today that the White House might want businesses to reopen in 2 weeks with people going back to work. If the WH goes forward with that but the Governors of the States don’t agree and keep the stay at home directives, who has the final authority in those States?
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It's a very tough decision....  
rmc3981 : 3/24/2020 2:49 pm : link
and the last poster bashing the President is not allowed on these sites. Do you potentially lose 100,000 people from the virus by opening the country earlier or do you potentially lose the same people in suicides if you wait until June or July and they are bankrupt. Their life savings gone. Either way, there is hardship. The powers that represent us may make the wrong decisions as this is unprecedented, but I believe they are trying very hard. All of them. I also believe that the people of this country are not like Europeans. People will start going back to work sooner rather than later no matter what the federal, state or local government say. It's just, right or wrong, in our nature.
I get the need to have the economy start to recover in an election yr.  
The_Boss : 3/24/2020 2:51 pm : link
But April 13 seems like a far fetched delusion at this point given how the number of cases is doubling every 3 days currently in NYS. They’re playing with fire.
RE: It's a very tough decision....  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14848469 rmc3981 said:
Quote:
and the last poster bashing the President is not allowed on these sites. Do you potentially lose 100,000 people from the virus by opening the country earlier or do you potentially lose the same people in suicides if you wait until June or July and they are bankrupt. Their life savings gone. Either way, there is hardship. The powers that represent us may make the wrong decisions as this is unprecedented, but I believe they are trying very hard. All of them. I also believe that the people of this country are not like Europeans. People will start going back to work sooner rather than later no matter what the federal, state or local government say. It's just, right or wrong, in our nature.


Bingo. I love how people act as if it some simple black and white issue. What a complete false dichotomy. There will be plenty of public health concerns with a ton of people out of work. Suicide. Substance abuse. Domestic violence. Etc.

Given what we're seeing, it is likely  
kicker : 3/24/2020 2:54 pm : link
that California, New York, and Pennsylvania would continue shelter in place methods.

That would mean over a quarter of U.S. GDP is being affected in some way. Even a relatively mild contraction of GDP in these states (unlikely), you are seeing losses of several hundred billions in economic activity.

You cannot restart the economy without most (if not all) of the states on board.
RE: I get the need to have the economy start to recover in an election yr.  
bceagle05 : 3/24/2020 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14848471 The_Boss said:
Quote:
But April 13 seems like a far fetched delusion at this point given how the number of cases is doubling every 3 days currently in NYS. They’re playing with fire.

World renowned political scientist Mike Francesa wants April 6 - I'm guessing he's done the math and estimated that's the day he officially goes into the red.
RE: RE: I get the need to have the economy start to recover in an election yr.  
The_Boss : 3/24/2020 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14848476 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 14848471 The_Boss said:


Quote:


But April 13 seems like a far fetched delusion at this point given how the number of cases is doubling every 3 days currently in NYS. They’re playing with fire.


World renowned political scientist Mike Francesa wants April 6 - I'm guessing he's done the math and estimated that's the day he officially goes into the red.


No more tp at the palatial Francesa estate?
That’s why the government  
Oscar : 3/24/2020 2:59 pm : link
Needs to straight up just give people money. Checks, monthly, until this is over. We are the richest country in the history of the world, it shouldn’t be that hard. Give out money now so people can comply with the social distancing restrictions.

We had bailouts for banks, we’re gonna have bailouts for corporations that spent the last decade borrowing money at will to buy back their own stock, now the actual American people need a fucking bailout. Give it to them.

Those who keep their jobs/work from home/have the money can pay it back next year or just not use it. It shouldn’t be that hard.
RE: I get the need to have the economy start to recover in an election yr.  
nygiants16 : 3/24/2020 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14848471 The_Boss said:
Quote:
But April 13 seems like a far fetched delusion at this point given how the number of cases is doubling every 3 days currently in NYS. They’re playing with fire.


How much of that is testing a lot more also, it doesnt necassarily mean it is spreading more either, those positives reflect a week ago, next week you should see the effects of the lockdown..

Xuomo also said he needs to get people back to work also to get the economy going, it is not just the president
RE: When Fauci says 'All good',  
flycatcher : 3/24/2020 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14848387 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
that's when I'll be going out to restaurants, gyms, bars, etc. again.

You can’t let a doctor make that call, that’s an executive decision.

Did McCoy decide when a landing party was beamed down? That was Captain Kirk’s duty. The executive officer. McCoy wasn’t the captain, he was a doctor, damn it.
RE: I'm no expert but I think states have authority within their own state  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14848376 steve in ky said:
Quote:
.


Exactly. Just because the federal government may say they are ready to lift state of emergency and may put forth guidance that the American people are ready to go back to work, individual states/localities are not prohibited from their local governmental powers. By some of the comments, they really need to bring civics education back...
RE: RE: It's a very tough decision....  
beatrixkiddo : 3/24/2020 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14848474 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14848469 rmc3981 said:


Quote:


and the last poster bashing the President is not allowed on these sites. Do you potentially lose 100,000 people from the virus by opening the country earlier or do you potentially lose the same people in suicides if you wait until June or July and they are bankrupt. Their life savings gone. Either way, there is hardship. The powers that represent us may make the wrong decisions as this is unprecedented, but I believe they are trying very hard. All of them. I also believe that the people of this country are not like Europeans. People will start going back to work sooner rather than later no matter what the federal, state or local government say. It's just, right or wrong, in our nature.



Bingo. I love how people act as if it some simple black and white issue. What a complete false dichotomy. There will be plenty of public health concerns with a ton of people out of work. Suicide. Substance abuse. Domestic violence. Etc.


Just read a great article, in it was a quote by Vladimir Lenin that is fitting for our current situation in time: “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” We are certainly living in such a time and are merely in the beginning of a huge turning for civilization in our time.
RE: Steve  
Alan in Toledo : 3/24/2020 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14848433 Oscar said:
Quote:
Nobody wants those small businesses to fail but this is not a policy decision it’s a virus. Step one to economic recovery is limiting the spread of the virus until the spread slows and we have sufficient testing to quickly and accurately determine who has the virus so they can be quarantined. Until that happens there’s no practical way to return to normal.

The best option for all businesses is to implement and adhere to significant restrictions now.

Words of wisdom.

I am of the opinion that every citizen should get money to hold them over and every small business should get money directly from the government as well. I’m not talking about McDonald’s or American Airlines, small businesses need financial help which the government is capable of providing in the short term.
RE: RE: When Fauci says 'All good',  
nygiants16 : 3/24/2020 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14848489 flycatcher said:
Quote:
In comment 14848387 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


that's when I'll be going out to restaurants, gyms, bars, etc. again.


You can’t let a doctor make that call, that’s an executive decision.

Did McCoy decide when a landing party was beamed down? That was Captain Kirk’s duty. The executive officer. McCoy wasn’t the captain, he was a doctor, damn it.


If you wait for Fauci to make the call or any doctor to make the call you are going to be waiting until they get a vaccine
RE: Given what we're seeing, it is likely  
Eli Wilson : 3/24/2020 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14848475 kicker said:
Quote:
that California, New York, and Pennsylvania would continue shelter in place methods.

That would mean over a quarter of U.S. GDP is being affected in some way. Even a relatively mild contraction of GDP in these states (unlikely), you are seeing losses of several hundred billions in economic activity.

You cannot restart the economy without most (if not all) of the states on board.


If that happens, I hope the Governor of NY realizes that there is more to the state than the NYC area. Lots of counties up here with very little virus activity and the capacity to deal with what's going on.
...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:03 pm : link
Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.
RE: RE: RE: It's a very tough decision....  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14848491 beatrixkiddo said:
Quote:
In comment 14848474 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 14848469 rmc3981 said:


Quote:


and the last poster bashing the President is not allowed on these sites. Do you potentially lose 100,000 people from the virus by opening the country earlier or do you potentially lose the same people in suicides if you wait until June or July and they are bankrupt. Their life savings gone. Either way, there is hardship. The powers that represent us may make the wrong decisions as this is unprecedented, but I believe they are trying very hard. All of them. I also believe that the people of this country are not like Europeans. People will start going back to work sooner rather than later no matter what the federal, state or local government say. It's just, right or wrong, in our nature.



Bingo. I love how people act as if it some simple black and white issue. What a complete false dichotomy. There will be plenty of public health concerns with a ton of people out of work. Suicide. Substance abuse. Domestic violence. Etc.




Just read a great article, in it was a quote by Vladimir Lenin that is fitting for our current situation in time: “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” We are certainly living in such a time and are merely in the beginning of a huge turning for civilization in our time.


Yeah, interesting times indeed. I personally loved history, but especially political philosophy in college. This reminds me of one of the essay questions we would used to have on tests, with some bizarre scenario that you had to analyze using various political philosophies. Unfortunately the bizarre scenario has become reality, and it's not so easy to deal with in real life...
RE: It's a very tough decision....  
Alan in Toledo : 3/24/2020 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14848469 rmc3981 said:
Quote:
and the last poster bashing the President is not allowed on these sites. Do you potentially lose 100,000 people from the virus by opening the country earlier or do you potentially lose the same people in suicides if you wait until June or July and they are bankrupt. Their life savings gone. Either way, there is hardship. The powers that represent us may make the wrong decisions as this is unprecedented, but I believe they are trying very hard. All of them. I also believe that the people of this country are not like Europeans. People will start going back to work sooner rather than later no matter what the federal, state or local government say. It's just, right or wrong, in our nature.


But some people put their own interests first. It's an aspect of human nature that can be sublimated.
RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 3/24/2020 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14848499 kicker said:
Quote:
Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.


I think the tri state area will follow cuomo, if he lifts the ban new jersey and connecticuit will, if he doesnt they wont..
RE: RE: I get the need to have the economy start to recover in an election yr.  
The_Boss : 3/24/2020 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14848486 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14848471 The_Boss said:


Quote:


But April 13 seems like a far fetched delusion at this point given how the number of cases is doubling every 3 days currently in NYS. They’re playing with fire.



How much of that is testing a lot more also, it doesnt necassarily mean it is spreading more either, those positives reflect a week ago, next week you should see the effects of the lockdown..

Xuomo also said he needs to get people back to work also to get the economy going, it is not just the president


Agree. I heard Cuomo say the same thing. I think you’ll see a lot of employees choosing to wait until they’re comfortable going back. It’ll be like the beach scene on the 4th of July in Jaws. Nobody wanting to go into the water (initially).
RE: RE: ...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14848503 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14848499 kicker said:


Quote:


Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.



I think the tri state area will follow cuomo, if he lifts the ban new jersey and connecticuit will, if he doesnt they wont..


Hence the regional linkages. At this point, I don't see a way that NY lifts shelter in place in a few weeks.
Just curious  
GMEN46 : 3/24/2020 3:09 pm : link
Are we allowed to start a thread in this where we can talk politics as long as it has in the title politics can be discussed or just in general no politics?
New York is just heading into this mess  
Oscar : 3/24/2020 3:09 pm : link
We are not on the way out. It’s gonna take time.
I dont think he will lift the shelter in place  
nygiants16 : 3/24/2020 3:10 pm : link
until they can test you to see if you already had it, once that comes people who test that they have had it will br allowed to go back to work..

I dont think it will ever be waking up one day and we get ok it is safe, i think it will be gradual
RE: ...  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14848499 kicker said:
Quote:
Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.


Plenty of localities provide tax credits/incentives for having people locate as it is. That has been happening for decades.

As for picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse, that happens all the time as well. New Orleans is still recovering from Katrina. If there are states that have no coronavirus cases in three weeks, are you saying they should not be able to open up for business? If the coronavirus is only prevalent in say NYC in three weeks, should the rest of the country be shut down too?
RE: New York is just heading into this mess  
nygiants16 : 3/24/2020 3:11 pm : link
In comment 14848510 Oscar said:
Quote:
We are not on the way out. It’s gonna take time.


you wont know if the shelter in place is working for another week, if it is working you should start seeing results in a week or so...
FWIW our company, Manhattan headquarters  
Oscar : 3/24/2020 3:12 pm : link
Sent out an update last week that said the office is closed and travel restrictions are in place until at least May. I can’t imagine we’re the only ones.
RE: Just curious  
Amtoft : 3/24/2020 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14848509 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
Are we allowed to start a thread in this where we can talk politics as long as it has in the title politics can be discussed or just in general no politics?


No you can't... no politics at all. It gets brutal and we forget that we are all in this together.
RE: RE: ...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14848513 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14848499 kicker said:


Quote:


Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.



Plenty of localities provide tax credits/incentives for having people locate as it is. That has been happening for decades.

As for picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse, that happens all the time as well. New Orleans is still recovering from Katrina. If there are states that have no coronavirus cases in three weeks, are you saying they should not be able to open up for business? If the coronavirus is only prevalent in say NYC in three weeks, should the rest of the country be shut down too?


Not even close.

Geographical locations that suffer from more frequent weather or tectonic events are factored into decision-making processes. Responses to a viral pandemic are not. In fact, given that we were told we were woefully under-prepared for a pandemic, it is likely that people's attitudes towards risk changed as the pandemic has changed.

And yes, thank you, tax credits have been offered for decades. How insightful. Please provide evidence of the last time tax credits were offered to attract businesses because of a pandemic? Would it have been kosher for that to happen after 9/11, to attract businesses outside of NYC because of the threat for terrorism?
RE: RE: ...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14848513 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14848499 kicker said:


Quote:


Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.



Plenty of localities provide tax credits/incentives for having people locate as it is. That has been happening for decades.

As for picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse, that happens all the time as well. New Orleans is still recovering from Katrina. If there are states that have no coronavirus cases in three weeks, are you saying they should not be able to open up for business? If the coronavirus is only prevalent in say NYC in three weeks, should the rest of the country be shut down too?


By the way, you may want to re-read the posts.

I have never stipulated that re-opening the economy can not happen in different areas. But that the impact is likely to be ineffective.

That is wildly different than the last paragraph you hammered out...
RE: RE: Steve  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/24/2020 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14848446 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14848433 Oscar said:


Quote:


Nobody wants those small businesses to fail but this is not a policy decision it’s a virus. Step one to economic recovery is limiting the spread of the virus until the spread slows and we have sufficient testing to quickly and accurately determine who has the virus so they can be quarantined. Until that happens there’s no practical way to return to normal.

The best option for all businesses is to implement and adhere to significant restrictions now.

I am of the opinion that every citizen should get money to hold them over and every small business should get money directly from the government as well. I’m not talking about McDonald’s or American Airlines, small businesses need financial help which the government is capable of providing in the short term.




It is not just small businesses... People work at those small business and are currently being laid off or let go or if lucky a company may float some workers for a certain amount of time. People have to pay bills and a lot of people are going to struggle for the next 6 months to a year at least I would assume on unemployment which is going to be hit hard with requests and backlogs. Economically big businesses are in much better shape than small businesses and people that work at them.

Saying that, what can we do? We can't have this spread throughout our country and getting people sick and killing people. This is a disaster and it is going to be rough.


This is my biggest worry, the wealthy don't hate recessions, they look more like opportunities to them. When you wipe out a ton of small businesses, who has the capital or credit to take over when all is said and done?
Well, the economy is not going to be open for months  
Heisenberg : 3/24/2020 3:21 pm : link
Look at Wuhan, just now getting open. Any talk about opening it sooner is coming from folks who underestimate the risks.

As for the idea that the cure is worse than the disease. That's a bit of a false choice. There are ways to mitigate the damage to the economy if desired.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14848521 kicker said:
Quote:
In comment 14848513 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 14848499 kicker said:


Quote:


Again, we have tremendous regional linkages in our economy.

What happens if one locale decides to remain sheltered in place, while others open? At this point, the economy doesn't work.

And what happens if certain localities tell businesses that they are willing to provide tax credits or other incentives to have them relocate to those areas? At that point, you are picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse than others.

We have a massive demand problem in our economy right now. Re-opening the economy isn't going to magically eliminate it.



Plenty of localities provide tax credits/incentives for having people locate as it is. That has been happening for decades.

As for picking economic winners and losers based on nothing but what areas are more risk averse, that happens all the time as well. New Orleans is still recovering from Katrina. If there are states that have no coronavirus cases in three weeks, are you saying they should not be able to open up for business? If the coronavirus is only prevalent in say NYC in three weeks, should the rest of the country be shut down too?



Not even close.

Geographical locations that suffer from more frequent weather or tectonic events are factored into decision-making processes. Responses to a viral pandemic are not. In fact, given that we were told we were woefully under-prepared for a pandemic, it is likely that people's attitudes towards risk changed as the pandemic has changed.

And yes, thank you, tax credits have been offered for decades. How insightful. Please provide evidence of the last time tax credits were offered to attract businesses because of a pandemic? Would it have been kosher for that to happen after 9/11, to attract businesses outside of NYC because of the threat for terrorism?


So you are worried about states offering pandemic tax credits? Honestly, if a locality is so susceptible to a pandemic based on factors such as population density, hospitals beds per person, etc., I would completely understand a business relocating to a sparser area. I don't see what the problem would be with a state or locality offering tax breaks to help such businesses and reinvigorate their locality.
I personally don't see an issue with sections of the country  
PatersonPlank : 3/24/2020 3:28 pm : link
going back to work/normal when they are ready. It will certainly help those areas and people. If a place like NYC is still closed up, then ok they can't go there. Every lit bit helps.
...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:29 pm : link
Beyond this exercise, can people explain how we are going to solve the demand problem that we are facing? Even a complete lifting will be after people have drawn down savings and ran up debt even further, reducing the ability of consumers to afford. Here are some numbers:

2007:

Consumer spending, $11.5 trillion.
Average credit card debt, $764 ($6,758 per household)
Percentage of unpaid balances, 51%

2019:

Consumer spending, $13.5 trillion.
Average credit car debt, $881 ($8,602 per household)
Percentage of unpaid balances, 52%
...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:31 pm : link
If you don't see a problem with offering tax credits or incentives to relocate during this time based on a pandemic, don't bother responding to me; your thoughts are valueless.
It’s a pure political move  
illmatic : 3/24/2020 3:33 pm : link
so certain people can point at the states and say it’s all their fault that the economy is going south. Assuming the states keep the shelter in place going like they should.
Again, for anyone advocating  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:36 pm : link
that this may provide benefits, please include an analysis of how these openings will do anything to ease the demand problem that we have been facing for years in this country.

A slightly growing consumption economy largely financed off of debt and drawing down savings, at levels that are comparable to our most recession, will not be able to effectively take off in a period of massive economic uncertainty.

...  
christian : 3/24/2020 3:38 pm : link
Any meaningful population movement from a more impacted to less impacted location is ridiculous.

State A has a low enough rate of infection they feel comfortable opening up contact, then gives incentives for people from State B with a high enough infection rate contact is not open, to come on over.

What could go wrong with that?
RE: This is foolishness  
Mike from Ohio : 3/24/2020 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14848408 JerryNicklebag said:
Quote:
that is going to cost people their lives so that rich people can keep their portfolios growing. Nothing like prioritizing money over actual lives...


So the US economy is just to help rich people grow their portfolio?

This is why there should be an IQ test to be eligible to vote. Someone with this view of the world shouldn't be influencing important decisions at all.
RE: ...  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14848548 kicker said:
Quote:
If you don't see a problem with offering tax credits or incentives to relocate during this time based on a pandemic, don't bother responding to me; your thoughts are valueless.


Well, thank you for that sanctimonious bullshit. No, there is nothing wrong with offering tax credits or incentives for a business somewhere else. Should every state and locality have their taxes as high as NY or CA? Are you talking about a specific "pandemic tax credit?" That is such a bizarre hypothetical, why would you be worried about that?

And if a state or locality does something like that, it kind of depends on how they market it. Again, there is nothing wrong with trying to help businesses and people that have been hurt by a pandemic. If NYC becomes the epicenter of the pandemic, and the marketing is "Come to South Dakota, where you won't die from a pandemic and be killed by taxes" then yes, it is probably in bad taste and will receive some backlash. But again, now we are getting into overly bizarre hypotheticals.
RE: It’s a pure political move  
barens : 3/24/2020 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14848555 illmatic said:
Quote:
so certain people can point at the states and say it’s all their fault that the economy is going south. Assuming the states keep the shelter in place going like they should.


Maybe it is, but from what I’m seeing, Republicans and Democrats are both seemingly in agreement that they won’t give the green light until the cdc gives the green light. So I’d say that is good sign.
...  
christian : 3/24/2020 3:43 pm : link
Do you really think it's a good idea to draw people from a highly populated and highly infected region of the country, to a less infected region of the country?
RE: ...  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:47 pm : link
In comment 14848571 christian said:
Quote:
Do you really think it's a good idea to draw people from a highly populated and highly infected region of the country, to a less infected region of the country?


Nobody thinks that. Who are you talking to?
...  
kicker : 3/24/2020 3:49 pm : link
Here is another data point.

In 2008, total outstanding household debt was $12.6 trillion. In 2019, it was about $14 trillion.

So, consumer spending increased by $2 trillion, and total household debt increased by $1.4 trillion. That means that about 70-percent of the increase in consumer spending was financed by household debt.

So. How do we have any impetus to speed an economic recovery when the expansion was financed by debt, and given the likely debt load increases from this pandemic...
LOL...You just have to laugh to get through it  
montanagiant : 3/24/2020 3:49 pm : link
When you have a segment of the population yearning to ignore all the warnings from actual experts about how much a firestorm this can become.

Have any of you who think this hunkering down should end in a week or two seen pics and articles from Italy? It's a damn Humanatarium crisis over there
When 300+ American begin dying each day  
AnnapolisMike : 3/24/2020 3:52 pm : link
No one will give a crap what the politicians say. The number of cases in the US will surpass Italy and China in a few days and maybe approach 100,000 by the weekend. It's only a matter of time before daily deaths skyrocket as well.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 3/24/2020 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14848574 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14848571 christian said:


Quote:


Do you really think it's a good idea to draw people from a highly populated and highly infected region of the country, to a less infected region of the country?



Nobody thinks that. Who are you talking to?


Quote:
Honestly, if a locality is so susceptible to a pandemic based on factors such as population density, hospitals beds per person, etc., I would completely understand a business relocating to a sparser area. I don't see what the problem would be with a state or locality offering tax breaks to help such businesses and reinvigorate their locality.


So you're saying after all threats of the outbreak have subsided, localities should offer incentives for companies to re-locate?
RE: RE: RE: ...  
KDavies : 3/24/2020 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14848592 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14848574 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 14848571 christian said:


Quote:


Do you really think it's a good idea to draw people from a highly populated and highly infected region of the country, to a less infected region of the country?



Nobody thinks that. Who are you talking to?





Quote:


Honestly, if a locality is so susceptible to a pandemic based on factors such as population density, hospitals beds per person, etc., I would completely understand a business relocating to a sparser area. I don't see what the problem would be with a state or locality offering tax breaks to help such businesses and reinvigorate their locality.



So you're saying after all threats of the outbreak have subsided, localities should offer incentives for companies to re-locate?


Kicker was talking about some kind of pandemic tax break. Ask him. States offer tax breaks now for businesses to move. I hardly think there are many businesses moving in the middle of the pandemic. I hardly think there are many states thinking about offering pandemic tax breaks in the middle of a pandemic. I truly don't know what he's talking about.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 3/24/2020 4:01 pm : link
1) I believe the Governors have the final word on these matters within their borders

2) Cuomo was talking about the need to get the economy going, but not at the expense of people

3) Likely why Fauci hasn't been visible the last 2 days of briefings

4) I, for one, would not listen at this juncture to return to work or social activities

5) At least the CDC, Governors, Congressman (both parties), and medical experts are not agreeing with Trump.

6) Cumor was saying earlier that the curve has actually risen, not flattened, in NY
RE: When 300+ American begin dying each day  
montanagiant : 3/24/2020 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14848586 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
No one will give a crap what the politicians say. The number of cases in the US will surpass Italy and China in a few days and maybe approach 100,000 by the weekend. It's only a matter of time before daily deaths skyrocket as well.

+1, we already are on target to pass Italy for cases within 4 days
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