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Can anyone sell me on Simmons as the #4 pick?

Jim in Forest Hills : 3/25/2020 8:52 am
I want a defensive stud, someone who can change the game for us. Maybe that's unrealistic to ask of a player. When I see Simmons, I don't see where he would dominate the game, so I might be self limiting this kid.

Those that advocate for him. what do you envision he will become? Do you have a good player comp for him? How do you see him impacting the game?
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RE: RE: Except, he's going to struggle with traditional LB roles in the NFL  
JonC : 3/25/2020 11:13 am : link
In comment 14849191 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14849037 JonC said:


Quote:


I'd wager he's a backend player in the NFL, and not a good use of the #4 overall pick, imo.



Not being argumentative but I recall similar thoughts about Ray Lewis before the 1996 draft.


Ray Lewis was a clear MIKE prospect, though. That means in the box, in the eye of the storm, and you're scheming around him.
watch these Shazier highlights  
SteelGiant : 3/25/2020 11:14 am : link
I understand they are highlights - but notice all the block her had to shed that were not running backs. Also look at all the plays that he was out in coverage. By the way he played INSIDE LB for the steelers. He is smaller than Simmons - I dont see why this is not possible.
Link - ( New Window )
Rudy  
JonC : 3/25/2020 11:14 am : link
Good post, I'm where you are. If you want him to play the hybrid spot and be free to run around in the backend, take him later in the round.
If you believe in Judges vision then Simmons is the perfect pick  
twostepgiants : 3/25/2020 11:15 am : link
A vision of being able to adapt a defense to your opponents game plan. He can cover TEs, he can spy a Mahomes or Lamar Jackson, he can blitz the QB and run stop.

He will be all over the field. offensive coordinators will have to adapt to Simmons. look at the LSU game. He was all over the field in the first half and LSU entirely changed their game plan due to Simmons,

He is one guy, so he can only do so much, but he is one of the most talented defensive players to come out in a generation and he has the production to back it up.

The offense will not be able to tell what our defense. Is gonna do based on where Simmons is because there are so many options with him.

“Don’t tell me what they can’t do, tell me what they can do.” - Joe Judge

Isaiah Simmons can do it all and will be used in every way imaginable,
Ray Lewis and Simmons are completely different players.  
cosmicj : 3/25/2020 11:18 am : link
There’s no reason to compare them.

Also, I am unconvinced Simmons is a big time pass rusher. If someone can show me a play where he beat a good NCAA OL who was actually blocking him, please post the highlight because I’d be very curious to see it.
RE: Can anyone sell me on Simmons as the #4 pick?  
Eman11 : 3/25/2020 11:22 am : link
In comment 14849201 M.S. said:
Quote:



He jumps off the screen.

He's a difference-maker.

And we have no difference-makers on defense.

If he's gone at 4, I vote with many other BBIers:

Trade down if we can and get a starting offensive tackle (and extra pick or two).


Pretty much exactly my thoughts.

I know we need OL help specifically OT and C but I think the D was worse than the OL and needs a player like Simmons who could help in a variety of ways.

I'm so tired of seeing 3rd and longs converted, TE's ripping us a new one and RB's catching passes in the flat and us having no one fast enougn to stop them. Simmons would help immediately in all those areas, and with this staff wanting to be versatile on D, I'm thinking they'll find several more creative ways to use him as well.
RE: RE: RE: Except, he's going to struggle with traditional LB roles in the NFL  
sb from NYT Forum : 3/25/2020 11:25 am : link
In comment 14849225 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14849191 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


In comment 14849037 JonC said:


Quote:


I'd wager he's a backend player in the NFL, and not a good use of the #4 overall pick, imo.



Not being argumentative but I recall similar thoughts about Ray Lewis before the 1996 draft.



Ray Lewis was a clear MIKE prospect, though. That means in the box, in the eye of the storm, and you're scheming around him.


Gotcha. I meant more along the lines that Lewis was criticized for being undersized, didn't play well in traffic, didn't shed blocks, that sort of thing.
I am actually fine  
aGiantGuy : 3/25/2020 11:28 am : link
With Wirfs being the pick because I remember how Dallas controlled the clock with their line while fielding an atrocious defense and was very successful.

But some of the viewpoints of why Simmons doesn’t have top end value, imo aren’t that substantial. It’s been said out there that he’s not overly physical or aggressive and that having to navigate through trash will neutralize most of his value to the team. I am here to present a case against that using Shazier as my model.

Now first, it’s been said that they aren’t similar but years ago I remember having similar concerns about Shazier and watched him absolutely flourish in the NFL game.

In case you are pressed for time and don’t want to watch the whole game posted below, I’m going to highlight three plays in this game.

1:05 I’ll quote the commentator for this one. “But Shatley(LG from Clemson pulls) right here, that man is coming for Shazier and he is the star of the show, because he just empties him.”
On this play it was a qb power and Taj Boyd ran right up Shaziers gap for a 49 yard touchdown. Block shedding issue.

4:45 You will watch Sammy Watkins catch a wr screen and then truck Shazier for 5 extra yards after contact. Needs to run his feet on contact.

6:37 You will see Shazier nonchalantly take on a block and allow the qb to get to the sideline and almost give up the td. Aggressiveness issue, lack of desire, tired.

My point is these are similar players coming out, they have top end speed and that’s what makes them valuable, not their block shedding ability. Because of Shazier’s clear talent, he worked on his weaknesses and he was able to make plays all over the field and become one of if not the best coverage LB in the NFL.

I would expect the same from Simmons


Shazier vs Clemson 2014 - ( New Window )
No question he is a great athele with greaat skills. However, the  
Jack Stroud : 3/25/2020 11:29 am : link
Giants need a LT who can protect Jones's blind side, he can not be sacked 5 or 6 times a game, take 15 hits a game, his very promising career will be cut short. The oline must be made better to protect him and Barkley who is also a great talent and has the ability to score every time he touches the ball.
..  
BleedBlue : 3/25/2020 11:33 am : link
it would be an EASY sell if we had some OL prospects or young players on the roster. we have such a glaring hole at OT and there are players in that range so its bpa meeting value.

simmons is going to be a special player....he will allow the defense to do all kinds of things. he can cover RBs and TEs, but i too am concerned about him inside as an ILB. that being said, i think he is the pick if we didnt have a glaring OL hole...
RE: RE: Jim  
AcesUp : 3/25/2020 11:37 am : link
In comment 14849168 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 14849115 AcesUp said:


Quote:


IMO he needs to be James+ to justify taking him over a franchise LT. He needs to be more than a stud joker LB/SS hybrid...he better be a stud LB/SS/FS/Edge/Nickle joker and your staff better be prepared to use him like that.



This assumes that the Giants have graded any of the OTs as a franchise LT. That is not a given.


I'm also making the assumption that Simmons is a pro bowl caliber player here, so I think it squares up.
And if you don’t think cover lb’s have value  
aGiantGuy : 3/25/2020 11:50 am : link
Just go watch the first Philly game where we were up 17-3 and they came all the way back without Alshon Jeffery, DeSean Jackson, or Nelson agholor.

They dinked and dunked us with 14 play drives featuring Boston Scott who our linebackers made look like Brain Westbrook.

Sorry to remind you guys of the atrocities that happened that night but we need an answer for that and hopefully Martinez and Connelly can improve that weakness by simple play recognition.

Remember the game winning OT TD to a wide open Ertz when Ogletree said he didn’t see him??? Yeah that’s what we’re trying to stop.
"Traditional LB"s  
BigBlueCane : 3/25/2020 11:53 am : link
are extinct for a reason in the modern NFL.

RE: RE: I love these words  
anon837 : 3/25/2020 11:55 am : link
In comment 14849207 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 14849081 anon837 said:


Quote:


“Tell me what the guy can do, don’t tell me what he can’t do, and we’ll find a way to put that positive skill set in the defense and not ask him to be in a position where he can fail.” Bill Belichick



I never got that. Wouldn't knowing what he can AND can't do help put him in the best position to succeed?

If the coaches know what they are doing, then yes. But when you had situations in the past like Landon Collins matched up 1 on 1 against a slot guy, they put him in a position to fail. That's not his forte, not by a longshot. When he was in the box, taking heads off, he was in his wheelhouse. Same thing with Simmons. If they utilize his speed, blitzing, and coverage ability, the Giants will have themselves a dangerous weapon. If they ask him to take on pulling guards or try to out-muscle Gronkoski type TEs, he will fail.
RE: Ray Lewis and Simmons are completely different players.  
uther99 : 3/25/2020 11:57 am : link
In comment 14849231 cosmicj said:
Quote:
There’s no reason to compare them.

Also, I am unconvinced Simmons is a big time pass rusher. If someone can show me a play where he beat a good NCAA OL who was actually blocking him, please post the highlight because I’d be very curious to see it.


Agree, his sacks from 2019 were almost all unblocked.
Not sold on him either  
ZogZerg : 3/25/2020 11:57 am : link
The fact that the "experts" can't agree on what NFL position he would play is alarming.

To me, he comes with a Risk. Your coach would have to have plan for how to use him before drafting him.

Jim - here's my answer, recent rd 1 LB's are some of the best in NFL  
Eric on Li : 3/25/2020 12:02 pm : link
Devin White
Devin Bush
Leighton Vander Esche
Darius Leonard
Tremaine Edmunds
Rashaan Evans

Now think about Simmons in context of all those guys - he is the biggest athletic freak and likely the best in coverage by a healthy margin as evidenced by his 4 INTs/14 passes defensed in the last 2 years. Unlike those guys he has actually played safety at an extremely high level. He is simply faster (4.38), more explosive (39 inch vert), and bigger/longer (238 pounds - with near 34 inch arms) than just about everyone on that list.

Now also think about Simmons in the context of pass rush relative to those guys. His 8 sacks/16.5 TFLs last year in a minimal pass rushing role likely shows upside beyond whatever any of them displayed in college. His arm length is equal to a prototypical LT and his speed on the edge alone is likely lethal in the same way as a guy like Vic Beasley.

Also he showed both of those specific skill sets at a high level, on the brightest stage in this past year's CFB playoff.

Now there is 1 area where likely doesn't rate as favorably compared to that list of players, and it's his play in the box vs. the run and taking on blocks. IMO that deficiency can be mitigated by a coach utilizing his skills in a smart way. And also let's not forget he did still accrue about 200 tackles in the last 2 years at Clemson, so it's not like he's incompetent. It's just not his strength and not where's his role has been focused.
Interviewed really well  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/25/2020 12:05 pm : link
-can defend the TE
-sideline to sideline
-stop the sweep
-neutralize mobile QB

No brainer.
RE: Ray Lewis and Simmons are completely different players.  
aGiantGuy : 3/25/2020 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14849231 cosmicj said:
Quote:
There’s no reason to compare them.

Also, I am unconvinced Simmons is a big time pass rusher. If someone can show me a play where he beat a good NCAA OL who was actually blocking him, please post the highlight because I’d be very curious to see it.


You can go to 2:58 to find the play you seek. Feel free to ignore the rest of the plays though.
Isaiah Simmons impact plays - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I love these words  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/25/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14849272 anon837 said:
Quote:
In comment 14849207 BestFeature said:


Quote:


In comment 14849081 anon837 said:


Quote:


“Tell me what the guy can do, don’t tell me what he can’t do, and we’ll find a way to put that positive skill set in the defense and not ask him to be in a position where he can fail.” Bill Belichick



I never got that. Wouldn't knowing what he can AND can't do help put him in the best position to succeed?


If the coaches know what they are doing, then yes. But when you had situations in the past like Landon Collins matched up 1 on 1 against a slot guy, they put him in a position to fail. That's not his forte, not by a longshot. When he was in the box, taking heads off, he was in his wheelhouse. Same thing with Simmons. If they utilize his speed, blitzing, and coverage ability, the Giants will have themselves a dangerous weapon. If they ask him to take on pulling guards or try to out-muscle Gronkoski type TEs, he will fail.

It really is pathetic how terrible our coaches scheme our players, meanwhile an even more lumbering safety Cam Chancellor was schemed perfectly.
Nope.  
Red Dog : 3/25/2020 12:24 pm : link
I am not the least bit sold on Simmons. He's not a game changer, and not a guy who will turn this team into a winner by himself. Seems to be a guy who gets by on superior athletic skills in college, and that does not translate to the NFL very well. He could be a major stud in the pros. Or he may not even be a good pro because he really doesn't have a position. That means he's a total crap shoot as a draft pick. But I just don't see his high side as outweighing the risk.

And as the #4 pick? Pure insanity. They have made major investments at QB and RB in the last two drafts but still have a weak OL that needs two Centers and at least one Tackle. So fix the farging line, then worry about the defense or they run a higher risk getting Jones or Bark hurt.

As much as I love the defensive game, the defense has to wait in the draft this year.
We're in a conumdrum  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/25/2020 12:27 pm : link
Blue chip LTs rarely fall to 4 and 4 is too high for a RT. Just take a bunch of OL later and hope they pan out. 4 is not the pick you reach with. 2nd and later is where you go need and role and look to plug up your roster.
We could argue about Simmons all day. Boom/bust, ceiling/floor  
Ivan15 : 3/25/2020 12:45 pm : link
We are not going to change anyone's mind so I think we should wait until the pick is made.

Personally, I think he could have as big an impact as LT did.

However, for those who think Simmons will be a complete bust, look at his measurables and the fact that he is a competitive person. Then ask yourself if this guy has a position if he can't do everything we think he MAY be able to do. I think, worst case, he would be a decent outside LB or Strong Safety, maybe equal to someone like Brad Van Pelt, to go back in history. There are probably plenty of comps for similar "floor" players, even if some think there is no one to compare as his "ceiling".
Some posters are saying that the Giants’ free agency, that’s far,  
DonnieD89 : 3/25/2020 1:02 pm : link
has set up the draft to take an OT at #4. This may be true, but he still has addressed in a linebacker to cover the tight ends or running backs. I still think the door is open. If Judge and DG have faith in Simmons and have a plan to put him in a position to succeed, I am all for it. However, I really do want the OT position addressed. Both positions need to be addressed. I guess the questions are which one would be more impactful and who has the highest grade.
I will try to address multiple points  
Jarvis : 3/25/2020 1:23 pm : link
1) In regards to Simmons not being worth it if his impact is more in the 2nd level of the defense. Derwin James is another safety/Linebacker hybrid with maybe more emphasis to safety while SImmons leans slightly more to linebacker. James is as valuable as Bosa is on the Charger defense. I live in SoCal and have seen plenty of games. The team is very different with James on the field.

2)In regards to DG’s drafting history. While in Carolina DG never drafted an o-lineman in the 1st round and took 1 in the 2nd round. He did however draft a Hybrid Safety/Linebacker (Shaq Thompson) in the 1st even though he already had Keuchly and Thomas Davis on the team. So i don’t think we can use DG’s draft history as any clue.

3) In regards to fixing the O-line. Of course the o-line need to be upgraded, but not drafting a lineman at 4 does not mean the line can’t or won’t be upgrade. I feel that people are so black and white not his matter. “The line needs to be upgraded therefore a lineman must be taken at 4”. There are many dominant lines that have no top 10 lineman on it (as there are with many position groups in the NFL). An offensive line probably requires the most cohesion as any group on the field which is why a single player does not always translate to improvement. This also happens to be a deep draft for offensive line.
Jim Nagy on Valentine's View interesting comments!  
edavisiii : 3/25/2020 1:27 pm : link
Just his opinion, high on Josh Jones or Matt Pert in the 2nd round for Gmen!

"Any team in the top-10 that takes an offensive tackle over Isaiah Simmons or Derrick Brown is clearly drafting for need rather than best player available."

“All these guys — Tristan Wirfs from Iowa, Andrew Thomas from Georgia, Mekhi Becton from Louisville, and Jedrick Wills from Alabama — all have their strengths, for sure, but none of them are super-clean prospects.

“If you’re just grading players they’re not to the level of Isaiah Simmons and Derrick Brown.”

Ju
Valentine’s Views’ podcast: Is this really an elite offensive tackle draft class? - ( New Window )
RE: I'm a Simmons guy,I believe he is a game changer!  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/25/2020 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14849110 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
However,I think our GM has dictated that our #4 pick be OT since in the last 2 drafts he's taken a RB & QB at #1. If you don't bring in people to protect those 2 skill positions,you're wasting those picks.How many times last year did we see Saquon tackled for a loss because he had no blocking? Now if management sees the second tier of OTs comparable to the top 4,than Simmons is a no brainer,at least to me. I think only bringing in Fleming(really a push since Remmers left) indicates what DG is thinking. And,if that's the case,moving down a few spots to either Miami or SD's #1 would make sense if they pick up another second round pick & still have the opportunity to draft Simmons/OT.


Good post but a lot can happen in 32 picks. As many as 7 or 8 OTs could go before pick 36. There are high enough grades on many of these guys and a dearth of quality OTs in the league.
RE: Jim - here's my answer, recent rd 1 LB's are some of the best in NFL  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/25/2020 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14849277 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Devin White
Devin Bush
Leighton Vander Esche
Darius Leonard
Tremaine Edmunds
Rashaan Evans

Now think about Simmons in context of all those guys - he is the biggest athletic freak and likely the best in coverage by a healthy margin as evidenced by his 4 INTs/14 passes defensed in the last 2 years. Unlike those guys he has actually played safety at an extremely high level. He is simply faster (4.38), more explosive (39 inch vert), and bigger/longer (238 pounds - with near 34 inch arms) than just about everyone on that list.

Now also think about Simmons in the context of pass rush relative to those guys. His 8 sacks/16.5 TFLs last year in a minimal pass rushing role likely shows upside beyond whatever any of them displayed in college. His arm length is equal to a prototypical LT and his speed on the edge alone is likely lethal in the same way as a guy like Vic Beasley.

Also he showed both of those specific skill sets at a high level, on the brightest stage in this past year's CFB playoff.

Now there is 1 area where likely doesn't rate as favorably compared to that list of players, and it's his play in the box vs. the run and taking on blocks. IMO that deficiency can be mitigated by a coach utilizing his skills in a smart way. And also let's not forget he did still accrue about 200 tackles in the last 2 years at Clemson, so it's not like he's incompetent. It's just not his strength and not where's his role has been focused.


Excellent post. Simmons is a stud on any defense if used properly. Match up weapon. Ray Lewis was hindred even when he had to get through the mick but with their beef upfront he was usually more free flwong to the ball carrier. We have beef upfront too. Not calling Simmons Lewis but that some defenses allow less traffic due to what they have upfront.
People always want to draft an OL because  
twostepgiants : 3/25/2020 1:38 pm : link
They appear like the safer pick. They seem like “plug and play” guys that make you better.

The truth is that they bust at about the same rate at any other position.

The Giants have drafted Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, Weston Richburg and Will Hernandez in recent years very high and we still have had one of the worst if not the worst OL in NFL.

The truth is the OL is 5 guys working as one and its more than just players there needed to make a difference. It’s a combo is scheme, technique and coaching that takes it all to work.

The idea of the “Franchise LT” is rather outdated back to the time when we had Orlando Paces and John Ogdens coming out and becoming HoF SB winning players.

What people are missing is that Simmons is likely to be graded higher then any OT. The Giants are really the only team that would take an OL in the top 5 and there is no consensus on which OL is the best of the bunch, Simmons is going to go in the top 5, he may not even be on the board when we select at 4. We would have to take the lesser player and gamble that we can predict which OL would be the best.

In addition, this rookie OL would either need to first start at RT or for e a move from Solder to RT. RT and LT are not the same position.
While some may have written off Solder, we should still bear in mind his personal situation with his child affecting his play and the fact that every other OL regressed under the previous staff and that maybe Judge bringing in a NE viewpoint like Solder and knowing him will also lead him to get better and the fact we should have much better coaching on the OL as well. There is reason for hope on Nate Solder.

But the point is - just taking an OL at 4 doesn’t guarantee anything.

The Giants still have a premium pick at the top of round 2 where they could go OL if they chose to go with Simmons. Hernandez filled a starting job day 1 at top of round 2 as did Snee when we took him. A starting OL could still be procured there,


I think he will be a hell of a pass rusher  
gtt350 : 3/25/2020 1:39 pm : link
he wil cause fits. Offenses will have to plan around where he is. He can fuckup alot of things for them
RE: People always want to draft an OL because  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/25/2020 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14849397 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
They appear like the safer pick. They seem like “plug and play” guys that make you better.

The truth is that they bust at about the same rate at any other position.

The Giants have drafted Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, Weston Richburg and Will Hernandez in recent years very high and we still have had one of the worst if not the worst OL in NFL.

The truth is the OL is 5 guys working as one and its more than just players there needed to make a difference. It’s a combo is scheme, technique and coaching that takes it all to work.

The idea of the “Franchise LT” is rather outdated back to the time when we had Orlando Paces and John Ogdens coming out and becoming HoF SB winning players.

What people are missing is that Simmons is likely to be graded higher then any OT. The Giants are really the only team that would take an OL in the top 5 and there is no consensus on which OL is the best of the bunch, Simmons is going to go in the top 5, he may not even be on the board when we select at 4. We would have to take the lesser player and gamble that we can predict which OL would be the best.

In addition, this rookie OL would either need to first start at RT or for e a move from Solder to RT. RT and LT are not the same position.
While some may have written off Solder, we should still bear in mind his personal situation with his child affecting his play and the fact that every other OL regressed under the previous staff and that maybe Judge bringing in a NE viewpoint like Solder and knowing him will also lead him to get better and the fact we should have much better coaching on the OL as well. There is reason for hope on Nate Solder.

But the point is - just taking an OL at 4 doesn’t guarantee anything.

The Giants still have a premium pick at the top of round 2 where they could go OL if they chose to go with Simmons. Hernandez filled a starting job day 1 at top of round 2 as did Snee when we took him. A starting OL could still be procured there,



If it were anywhere but LT I'd agree with you. LTs get scooped up very quickly.
Simmons has a position. He is a LB  
twostepgiants : 3/25/2020 1:47 pm : link
He would be by far the biggest S in the NFL

This no position is made up nonsense to turn his versatility into a criticism.

Just because he can cover a TE doesn't make him a safety

People are making too much of the Honey Badger quote. In case you missed it, Matthhieu had a monster season, huge playoffs and an incredible Super Bowl. He is drawing off a simple comparison

Honey Badger is 5'9 and 190 pds

Simmoms is 6'4" and 239 pds



Simmons checks off a lot of boxes.  
Section331 : 3/25/2020 2:03 pm : link
As SteelGiant points out, it would be much harder to exploit mismatches if have Simmons lining up as a LB. Split out a TE, RB, or even a slot WR, and he can cover them. He can cover a lot of ground chasing down the run game.

I've watched a bunch of Clemson games this year, and while I didn't focus solely on Simmons, my concerns were his shedding blocks, tackling, and even his pass rush acumen. I just didn't see it. Sure, he beat RB's every now and then, but he really struggled when an OT slid out on him.

That said, many whose opinion I respect have said that he is a very good pass rusher, and he did have 8 sacks. At the end of the day, if he is the pick, I'm 100% on board. He will make any defense better.
If Simmons is as great as many are saying  
5BowlsSoon : 3/25/2020 2:12 pm : link
Maybe the Lions will select him instead of Okudah. I don’t think we should assume Okudah is a given with them.
Vs Honey Badger  
twostepgiants : 3/25/2020 2:51 pm : link
Again to point out,

Just think the impact he had this in year and KC

AND

He is 7 inches taller, (add wingspan), nearly 50 pounds heavier

YET

He is faster!
How many of us ProSimmons guys were ProAaaronDonald guys  
SteelGiant : 3/25/2020 3:50 pm : link
I really want to know. I was one who wanted Aaron Donald and was pissed when we drafted Odell. Odell was very talented so it took the sting out but I feel like this is same conversation all over again.

Aaron Donald is too small - he played in crappy division - and I would like see how terrible he will be at the next level against even bigger/stronger guys. (again fans ignore every good thing he did in college and only focus on the one thing that didt like about him) Except in this case - Aaron Donald was not going to grow but in Simmons case he could get better at shedding a block
Put me in the absolutely not  
Doubledeuce22 : 3/25/2020 3:52 pm : link
on Simmons. Too risky of a pick for a team that absolutely HAS to hit on this pick. We just signed 2 LB's and have Connelly coming back. This team needs to shore up that LT position immediately because even if Solder plays well this year, he is likely coming to his last years as a Giant or at least as our LT. LB's can be had lower than the #4 . Nobody is even convinced that Simmons can play the LB position and the other question is will he be a 3 down player? You don't take a 2 down player with the 4th overall pick.
RE: Put me in the absolutely not  
SteelGiant : 3/25/2020 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14849531 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
on Simmons. Too risky of a pick for a team that absolutely HAS to hit on this pick. We just signed 2 LB's and have Connelly coming back. This team needs to shore up that LT position immediately because even if Solder plays well this year, he is likely coming to his last years as a Giant or at least as our LT. LB's can be had lower than the #4 . Nobody is even convinced that Simmons can play the LB position and the other question is will he be a 3 down player? You don't take a 2 down player with the 4th overall pick.


Which 2 downs do you think he will be playing? Keep in mind most team pass over 60% of the time on 1st down, also only 2 teams in the NFL pass less than 50% on first down.

He is ranked the best LB in the draft, and I see way more confusion on which OT to draft. No one is convinced which lineman is a franchise LT, I can get a lineman in the 5th round from this argument. As bad as you think the oline was last year - the defense was even worse.
RE: Put me in the absolutely not  
Section331 : 3/25/2020 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14849531 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
on Simmons. Too risky of a pick for a team that absolutely HAS to hit on this pick. We just signed 2 LB's and have Connelly coming back.


I think the LB's we signed make a guy like Simmons MORE important than less. We will have one of the least athletic LB corps in the league. Simmons completely changes that. Who of our current LB's can cover anyone?
If the Giants are still in play for Clowney or Golden, it tells me  
Spider56 : 3/25/2020 7:06 pm : link
they aren’t going to pick Simmons at 4 ... If they don’t sign either of them, it comes down to these options ...
1. Take Simmons at 4 and then maybe the 7th or 8th best OL at 36... or
2. Trade down, take probably the 2nd best OT and 2nd best LB in the 1st round and get a VG center at 36.
I like option 2 better ... Carl Banks has said Simmons is a LB, not a S and there are other good coverage guys available ...
I love Simmons  
Rjanyg : 3/25/2020 9:26 pm : link
And if it weren’t for the need to add a great OT, he would be a 100% no brainer for everyone.

The guys is a unique freak of a football player
Nope  
Darth Paul : 3/25/2020 9:33 pm : link
I have never seen him play.
Those of us who want Simmons think he will be BPA by far at #4.  
TMS : 3/25/2020 9:34 pm : link
Think he will be fitted into a spots that will have him playing many positions depending on the situation, Think he ends up at MLB a lot and be moved around according to the game plan. Ten year guy who will be an all pro sooner rather than later. Sideline to sideline defensive nightmare for defenses. Tremendous 1st round value that we have not had in a long time. Take him or Okudah or trade down for more picks. LTs are all flawed and ordinary not worth a pick than high. MO. We will see what DG and Judge think.
RE: How many of us ProSimmons guys were ProAaaronDonald guys  
BestFeature : 3/25/2020 9:46 pm : link
In comment 14849528 SteelGiant said:
Quote:
I really want to know. I was one who wanted Aaron Donald and was pissed when we drafted Odell. Odell was very talented so it took the sting out but I feel like this is same conversation all over again.

Aaron Donald is too small - he played in crappy division - and I would like see how terrible he will be at the next level against even bigger/stronger guys. (again fans ignore every good thing he did in college and only focus on the one thing that didt like about him) Except in this case - Aaron Donald was not going to grow but in Simmons case he could get better at shedding a block


Good call on this.
Good call by you.  
TMS : 3/25/2020 10:12 pm : link
I thought he was too small for the position but I was wrong, Speed kills if it is coupled with smarts and grit. Hope Simmons proves it again if we take him.
RE: RE: How many of us ProSimmons guys were ProAaaronDonald guys  
Rjanyg : 3/25/2020 10:33 pm : link
In comment 14849874 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 14849528 SteelGiant said:


Quote:


I really want to know. I was one who wanted Aaron Donald and was pissed when we drafted Odell. Odell was very talented so it took the sting out but I feel like this is same conversation all over again.

Aaron Donald is too small - he played in crappy division - and I would like see how terrible he will be at the next level against even bigger/stronger guys. (again fans ignore every good thing he did in college and only focus on the one thing that didt like about him) Except in this case - Aaron Donald was not going to grow but in Simmons case he could get better at shedding a block



Good call on this.


Yeah good call. I wanted Zack Martin, my son ( who should be a scout ) really wanted Donald. We both understood OBJ because of need.

Simmons if available will be BPA. Because it can be argued that he is a top 2 player. You can’t say that about any of the OT.
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