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Ourlads 2.0 Post Combine Mock Draft (3-20-2020)

M.S. : 3/26/2020 9:45 am
Not sure if this was posted.

I'm assuming Sy'56 had input into this.

In any event, many of you will love this pick, as well as the thorough write-up!

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wishful down-traders  
Josh in MD : 3/26/2020 10:28 am : link
Quote:

I'd be a little disappointed if two QBs went back to back behind them and they couldn't find anyone to trade down with. Would love to have the Chargers jump the Dolphins or the Dolphins just move up and grab an extra 2nd and/or 3rd.

You got to leverage
give66 : 9:57 am : link : reply
at least 2 from either Mia or LA to move up if they are both going QB.


Miami knows we aren't taking a QB so has absolutely not a shred of a reason to trade up with us. If the Chargers don't feel that the difference between Tua and Herbert is worth spending assets on, or if they think Miami is going to take the one they themselves like less, then they have no reason to trade with us either. There is no reason to suppose that we have the option here that so many on BBI are talking about.
RE: RE: Did he line up opposite chase young at any point  
barens : 3/26/2020 10:29 am : link
In comment 14850206 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 14850198 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Over the last 2 years? If so, how did he perform?



Iowa/Ohio State played in 2018, and was OSU's only loss. That said, I don't know if they went head to head at all.


My mistake, that was 2017, so in all likelihood, they did not match up.
RE: I like Wirfs  
Reb8thVA : 3/26/2020 10:30 am : link
In comment 14850189 AcesUp said:
Quote:
He's my guy if they go OL at 4. Love the wrestling background with lineman. Obviously love his athletic profile as well, which should come in handy when you a dynamic RB like Saquan that likes to go off script. Iowa is one of the few programs running a pro style, it makes the OL eval a lot more straightforward. I think there's huge upside there with a pretty high floor because of his positional versatility and pedigree.


I completely agree. I love Wirfs' game. I think its self-congratulatory BBI greek chorus that is looking to manufacture reasons why Wirfs would be a bad pick.
RE: A trade down is definitely the move  
Reb8thVA : 3/26/2020 10:34 am : link
In comment 14850203 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I'm just not sure there will be a prospect there at 4 to incentivize a team to move up. Tua is most likely off the board and don't see Herbert or Love climbing enough force the Chargers hand there. I can't remember the last time a team traded up into the Top 5 for a non-QB either, think it was the Oregon DE that busted about 10 years ago?


I think you are right here as well. I think the Giants have less leverage than people believe they do. If someone is going to trade up for Too, its going to probably be with Detroit. If Detroit doesn't trade out and Im the Dolphins, there is a good chance I might call the Giants bluff. Also the Giants can not risk falling out of the top 10 because if they do they might no get one of those top 4 Its. The Panthers, Jets, Cardinals, and Browns all have OT needs.
I get wanting to trade down  
UConn4523 : 3/26/2020 10:39 am : link
but I don't have high hopes for that AND landing Wirfs. But I'm all for the pick at 4 anyway, time for one of these OLmen to work out, we've been through enough.
Aren’t the Panthers in desperate need of a QB, too?  
cosmicj : 3/26/2020 10:40 am : link
That’s a major factor. I am definitely on board with Wirfs but in the 6-9 range. The other wild card is if anyone likes Simmons enough to trade with the Giants go pick him.
RE: Giants love Wirfs  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 10:41 am : link
In comment 14850159 JonC said:
Quote:
but is it enough to pick him at #4, is unclear. Pretty clear the interest has gotten around.


Not saying I agree but if Young doesn't drop who is clear BPA i.e. in a higher tier than any/all 4 of the OTs?

Okudah? Simmons? Both great players but so are a couple of the OTs.

They probably see Wirfs as a Left Tackle who can do it all due to his athleticism.

To me though for all the athleticism he plays tight and coiled in the pass game. He doesn't look natural in pass pro like Wills does. He is so gifted athletically though he may still be able to good enough .

I just think Wills and Becton ultimately turn out to be better Left Tackles.
Tua available at 4 is a dream scenario for Giants  
averagejoe : 3/26/2020 10:43 am : link
Miami Carolina and Chargers would have to move up for QB of their choice and Giants still get Wirfs and additional high picks.
RE: RE: I truly don't get how Wirfs goes ahead of any of the  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 10:44 am : link
In comment 14850193 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14850155 barens said:


Quote:


other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?



Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.


You can look great in underwear in drills but be stiff while trying to process all around you in live game action.

It was the main beef that both Cosell and Tucker alluded to. They seemed in strong agreement on this and I saw the same thing they did.
JerseyJoe  
JonC : 3/26/2020 10:52 am : link
I think the defenders are better prospects than the OL. Young and Okudah are blue chips in my book.

But, unless Young somehow slips to us or they can't pass up Okudah, I suspect we fill a big need at OT.
I can’t see the Giants passing on either Young or Simmons  
Ivan15 : 3/26/2020 10:56 am : link
unless they get a great trade down offer. Even if they trade down to 5 or 6, I still think they make the same pick.

Think about adding a defensive player that has to be accounted for on every play. Every team that has had one in the past or present, has a great defense.
I  
AcidTest : 3/26/2020 11:01 am : link
could easily see the Giants taking Wirfs at #4. He fits Dave's definition of a "hog mollie." I don't think the Giants will be able to trade down given everything that's happened. But even if they can, they won't pass on a prospect they like to do so.
RE: I like Wirfs  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 11:04 am : link
In comment 14850189 AcesUp said:
Quote:
He's my guy if they go OL at 4. Love the wrestling background with lineman. Obviously love his athletic profile as well, which should come in handy when you a dynamic RB like Saquan that likes to go off script. Iowa is one of the few programs running a pro style, it makes the OL eval a lot more straightforward. I think there's huge upside there with a pretty high floor because of his positional versatility and pedigree.


Cosell and Tucker said the wrestling background is better for an OG. Ironically Wills POINT GUARD background shows better anticipation, peripheral vision, processing and quick change of direction.
Everybody who wants us to go defense at #4  
Jeever : 3/26/2020 11:09 am : link
We can take the best D on the board and maybe we improve the defense some. But if you do not fix the OL it will be more 3 and out and your improved defense will be on the field for 35-40 minutes a game and gassed by the 4th qtr. If we fix the OL with multiple picks and provide protection for our QB and open holes for our generational RB who has a limited shelf life we can keep our defense off the field and allow them to recover and be better able to do their job. This draft needs to be OL, OL, OL and more OL. Next year I'd do the saturation bombing on D.
Becton ran 5.1 at the combine  
Chip : 3/26/2020 11:11 am : link
not 5.5
Why does every write-up about Wirfs  
BigBlueCane : 3/26/2020 11:20 am : link
suggest he's a great fit specifically in a zone blocking system.
RE: RE: RE: I truly don't get how Wirfs goes ahead of any of the  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/26/2020 11:20 am : link
In comment 14850238 MeadowlandsMike said:
Quote:
In comment 14850193 aGiantGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 14850155 barens said:


Quote:


other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?



Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.



You can look great in underwear in drills but be stiff while trying to process all around you in live game action.

It was the main beef that both Cosell and Tucker alluded to. They seemed in strong agreement on this and I saw the same thing they did.

I like Cossell's analysis, kinda see the same thing. We want a prototypical elephant with ballerina feet LT at 4, and I don't see the ballerina feet.
RE: I hope we can bump down a spot or two  
Dankbeerman : 3/26/2020 11:28 am : link
In comment 14850199 JonC said:
Quote:
pick up a #2 in this draft, because the second round is looking strong and deep again. DG might then have ammo to trade up from #36 and perhaps target a prospect like Gross-Matos or Baun, if need be to secure an Edge target.


Would love to get an extra 2 draft LT 1 and then get an Edge guy and still have a chance at a Delpit or one of the WR who may slide to 36.

And what am I missing on Andrew Thomas that he is never in the discusion as the #1 OT.
Yuck. I'd rather draft Derrick Brown than Wirfs.  
Heisenberg : 3/26/2020 12:00 pm : link
I like Wills the best of all the tackles.
I'd  
AcidTest : 3/26/2020 12:01 pm : link
rather have Andrew Thomas and an extra #2 or #3 after a small trade down, than Wirfs at #4.
Wirfs tested off the charts  
JFIB : 3/26/2020 12:10 pm : link
Athletically at the combine so I get the appeal but Wills technique seems so much better. Not that Wirfs couldn't improve technique with NFL coaching but watch the video below comparing the two and you might be convinced Wills is the better choice as I was.
Wills Vs Wirfs - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I hope we can bump down a spot or two  
JonC : 3/26/2020 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14850283 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
In comment 14850199 JonC said:


Quote:


pick up a #2 in this draft, because the second round is looking strong and deep again. DG might then have ammo to trade up from #36 and perhaps target a prospect like Gross-Matos or Baun, if need be to secure an Edge target.



Would love to get an extra 2 draft LT 1 and then get an Edge guy and still have a chance at a Delpit or one of the WR who may slide to 36.

And what am I missing on Andrew Thomas that he is never in the discusion as the #1 OT.


When I watched him against top college competition, he really struggled with speed rushers. He would start bending at the waist, grabbing his man, not sliding or moving his feet. Reminiscent of a former recent Giant.
I just don't see it with Wirfs  
BigBlueCane : 3/26/2020 12:45 pm : link
maybe they think he's another Matt Light but all I see is a future Guard, which to be fair, is going to be a need since Zeitler's career is ticking down.
I may not know much really  
BillT : 3/26/2020 12:56 pm : link
But it's hard for me to trust an evaluation that has Wills the 4th best OT. Now, he's gone by pick #14 so it's not like they don't think he's good. But, the 4th best OT? Like I said, what do I know.
RE: I may not know much really  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14850408 BillT said:
Quote:
But it's hard for me to trust an evaluation that has Wills the 4th best OT. Now, he's gone by pick #14 so it's not like they don't think he's good. But, the 4th best OT? Like I said, what do I know.


How you think teams will pick and big board don't always match up.
None of these OT are  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 3/26/2020 1:41 pm : link
Worth #4, so you don’t draft for need here.

Go down a few spots! They can get and extra 2 for another OL pick.
RE: None of these OT are  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14850479 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
Worth #4, so you don’t draft for need here.

Go down a few spots! They can get and extra 2 for another OL pick.


Besides Young who is so much better than all 4 OTs? Simmons nor Okudah are in a grouping all by themselves.
I'm convinced we take an OT in the 1st Round  
Torrag : 3/26/2020 2:47 pm : link
The talent at the top of the 1st Round is the best in many years with four prospects commonly ranked in the Top 12. We were unable to address it in Free Agency.

Ideally we can move back a couple of slots and get our guy at #6 or even #9. Further than that I wouldn't consider.

As far as who the Giants prefer no one has a clue. They can blow as much smoke up everyone's ass as they like. Whether a scout doing the Iowa area told another he really likes Wirfs or another watched Wills defeat Brown one on one in the Iron Bowl and said the same is irrelevant. Those are snapshots that don't give the full picture of the organizations thinking.

We've seen two names amongst the OT's be linked to the Giants Org Torr  
BigBlueCane : 3/26/2020 2:50 pm : link
Wirf, here pretty substantially and dave te saying they were all over Becton at the combine.

I imagine if they pick an OT, it will be one of those two.
"I imagine if they pick an OT, it will be one of those two."  
Torrag : 3/26/2020 2:51 pm : link
Sorry, but no one has a clue.
If that was true  
BigBlueCane : 3/26/2020 2:56 pm : link
people would be mocking Simmons, Derrick Brown and Okudah to them.

They aren't because the Giants once again, are historically bad at keeping whom they're interested in, a secret.

this year might be different b/c of the sequester but we see.
RE: Wirf should be fine as a RT  
TMS : 3/26/2020 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14850186 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
has the strength, but is there a lot of tape of him shutting down good ERs? 4 is kind of high to be taking a RT.
. You are right you do not take Tackles with the 4th pick in the draft. That spot is for QBs and Defense.
Simmons is as commonly mocked to the Giants as any OT  
Torrag : 3/26/2020 3:01 pm : link
At #4 there are only a few viable possibilities. That isn't 'franchise security' it's common sense and deductive reasoning. Don't go all conspiracy theory.

I watched the Combine. Everytime becton was off to the side there were people gathered around him gawking. Why? because he's a walking freaking mountain.
Picking a potential RT over a LT would seem to make picking  
GFAN52 : 3/26/2020 3:10 pm : link
at #4 overall seems like an overpay. I would hope they have a plan to trade down.
RE: RE: Wirf should be fine as a RT  
barens : 3/26/2020 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14850581 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 14850186 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


has the strength, but is there a lot of tape of him shutting down good ERs? 4 is kind of high to be taking a RT.

. You are right you do not take Tackles with the 4th pick in the draft. That spot is for QBs and Defense.


The Eagles did, and it worked out just fine.
that Link is excellent  
gtt350 : 3/26/2020 3:31 pm : link
I learned alot
Clearly the play is to trade down a bit if able  
LBH15 : 3/26/2020 3:46 pm : link
in order to cover multiple areas on days 1&2 for a team that still needs plenty of better assets.

However, whether that happens or not, logic will tell you this front office isn’t going to let a bunch of OTs come off the board in rd 1 without getting one of them. It’s also not critical they can immediately man the Left side although it would be bonus.

Investment in front of DJ and Saquon is critical over the next several years, if not longer.
and Simmons  
BigBlueCane : 3/26/2020 4:21 pm : link
was previously being mocked to the Giants pre Free agency.

and again I refer to daveTE's comments about the Giants being all over Becton at the combine. And there was a report coming out of the combine that the only questions Becton had were off the field and the interviews apparently answered those.

"Simmons was previously being mocked to the Giants"  
Torrag : 3/26/2020 4:35 pm : link
The post Combine mocks have as many or more Simmons to the Giants picks. Big Blue Kickof Live with Schmelck just had a video breakdown of it. Just stop. You're wrong. Own it.

As far as OT the odds are the Giants have a clear preference for one or maybe two guys. Which is why I'll be surprised if we do trade down past #6. Maybe #9.

I'm firmly convinced we're locked into an OT in Round 1 after Free agency and seeing the vast majority of projections that have the Top 7 OT/OC all gone before #36.

Sorry, I can't see us entrusting Jones development and Saquon's best years to the #8 OL in this Draft.

The Cleveland's/Wilson's/Niang's of the world aren't getting it done in my book.
RE: We've seen two names amongst the OT's be linked to the Giants Org Torr  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14850572 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
Wirf, here pretty substantially and dave te saying they were all over Becton at the combine.

I imagine if they pick an OT, it will be one of those two.


The one that has multiple reports linked to him and of the strongest language has been Wirfs. (Which scares me).

We have had one-offs about Becton (Dave Te) and Wills (forget who exactly but remember it being a legit source).

Not a peep anywhere (at least I've seen) about Thomas.

This doesn't count mockster or analysts opinions about who they THINK the Giants should take.
RE: I  
Jay in Toronto : 3/26/2020 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14850262 AcidTest said:
Quote:
could easily see the Giants taking Wirfs at #4. He fits Dave's definition of a "hog mollie." I don't think the Giants will be able to trade down given everything that's happened. But even if they can, they won't pass on a prospect they like to do so.


Anyone else had enough of all this 'hog mollie' crap?
I'm not the one that's wrong Tor.  
BigBlueCane : 3/26/2020 6:51 pm : link
you are. and that's proven by your bw-like inability to conceed anything.

As to the topic at hand, again, The Giants have been historically bad at keeping who they are interested in, a secret. Even going back to Jones last year, everyone who was projecting Haskins or another player was ignoring the glaring signs and labels that were highlighting Jones and all his connections to the team. and all the boxes he would check.

Now this year, with this new regime maybe things are different. But again we have the leaks and rumors linking the Giants to the two OL, Wirfs and Becton. And of those two, we have to ask which one checks more boxes, not from the point of view of pundits and draft niks but from the point of DG, Judge and Garrett/Columbo.
For the record  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2020 6:58 pm : link
I don't have much to do with the Ourlads mock drafts.

I am in agreement with most of the top 10, however.
RE: For the record  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14850820 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I don't have much to do with the Ourlads mock drafts.

I am in agreement with most of the top 10, however.


From a value standpoint or from what teams would likely do? (Or both)
RE: I'm not the one that's wrong Tor.  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14850808 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
you are. and that's proven by your bw-like inability to conceed anything.

As to the topic at hand, again, The Giants have been historically bad at keeping who they are interested in, a secret. Even going back to Jones last year, everyone who was projecting Haskins or another player was ignoring the glaring signs and labels that were highlighting Jones and all his connections to the team. and all the boxes he would check.

Now this year, with this new regime maybe things are different. But again we have the leaks and rumors linking the Giants to the two OL, Wirfs and Becton. And of those two, we have to ask which one checks more boxes, not from the point of view of pundits and draft niks but from the point of DG, Judge and Garrett/Columbo.


Wills was one off reported too. Only guy not mentioned was Thomas.

By credible reports its Wirfs by far, followed by Becton then Wills.
RE: RE: For the record  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2020 7:24 pm : link
In comment 14850847 MeadowlandsMike said:
Quote:
In comment 14850820 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


I don't have much to do with the Ourlads mock drafts.

I am in agreement with most of the top 10, however.



From a value standpoint or from what teams would likely do? (Or both)
.

What teams will do
RE: RE: RE: For the record  
Rudy5757 : 3/26/2020 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14850855 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14850847 MeadowlandsMike said:


Quote:


In comment 14850820 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


I don't have much to do with the Ourlads mock drafts.

I am in agreement with most of the top 10, however.



From a value standpoint or from what teams would likely do? (Or both)

.

What teams will do


Sy thats disappointing. I get the sense we are going to go OT in the 1st, it just lines up with our needs too well. I think the value is good enough. But if 2 QBs go 5 & 6 and we dont pick something up in a trade that would be terrible. Plus Wirfs is my least favorite of the OTs as I just see him as a better guard and we would force him to play tackle. But you know much more than me.
RE: RE: RE: RE: For the record  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2020 8:21 pm : link
In comment 14850883 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
In comment 14850855 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14850847 MeadowlandsMike said:


Quote:


In comment 14850820 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


I don't have much to do with the Ourlads mock drafts.

I am in agreement with most of the top 10, however.



From a value standpoint or from what teams would likely do? (Or both)

.

What teams will do



Sy thats disappointing. I get the sense we are going to go OT in the 1st, it just lines up with our needs too well. I think the value is good enough. But if 2 QBs go 5 & 6 and we dont pick something up in a trade that would be terrible. Plus Wirfs is my least favorite of the OTs as I just see him as a better guard and we would force him to play tackle. But you know much more than me.


Nah I wouldn't say I know more than you - it is all a guess at the end of the day and trust me, I get the Wirfs to OG talk. The FIRST note I have on Wirfs from game notes "Looks like OG build/body" HA

Anyway - I think NYG will trade down to 5 or 6 if a legit offer is made. But let's not act like it is a foregone conclusion that it will happen. Hard to place blame on not accepting a trade that you don't truly know even exists.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the record  
MeadowlandsMike : 3/26/2020 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14850900 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14850883 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


In comment 14850855 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14850847 MeadowlandsMike said:


Quote:


In comment 14850820 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


I don't have much to do with the Ourlads mock drafts.

I am in agreement with most of the top 10, however.



From a value standpoint or from what teams would likely do? (Or both)

.

What teams will do



Sy thats disappointing. I get the sense we are going to go OT in the 1st, it just lines up with our needs too well. I think the value is good enough. But if 2 QBs go 5 & 6 and we dont pick something up in a trade that would be terrible. Plus Wirfs is my least favorite of the OTs as I just see him as a better guard and we would force him to play tackle. But you know much more than me.



Nah I wouldn't say I know more than you - it is all a guess at the end of the day and trust me, I get the Wirfs to OG talk. The FIRST note I have on Wirfs from game notes "Looks like OG build/body" HA

Anyway - I think NYG will trade down to 5 or 6 if a legit offer is made. But let's not act like it is a foregone conclusion that it will happen. Hard to place blame on not accepting a trade that you don't truly know even exists.


Sy did you listen to Cosell and Tucker and what they had to say about Wirfs? It confirmed the very thing I saw on tape. A guy who tests well and extremely athletic yet when the live bullets fly he looks tight and coiled out there on the edge. He can get away with it a bit because of his ridiculous athleticism but he definitely doesn't play to it in pass pro. Wills on the other hand you can see point guard traits out there which lend themselves very well to edge protection ....
RE: Everybody who wants us to go defense at #4  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/2/2020 8:22 am : link
In comment 14850267 Jeever said:
Quote:
We can take the best D on the board and maybe we improve the defense some. But if you do not fix the OL it will be more 3 and out and your improved defense will be on the field for 35-40 minutes a game and gassed by the 4th qtr. If we fix the OL with multiple picks and provide protection for our QB and open holes for our generational RB who has a limited shelf life we can keep our defense off the field and allow them to recover and be better able to do their job. This draft needs to be OL, OL, OL and more OL. Next year I'd do the saturation bombing on D.


Absolutely in agreement with this approach. It's not sexy, but in today's NFL offense wins football games. We need to protect our two most important players -- DJ and SB.
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