On board with Wirfs at this point. This is going to be an even bigger need with Solder probably gone after a year or two, and Simmons just has too high bust potential.
I truly don't get how Wirfs goes ahead of any of the
other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?
but is it enough to pick him at #4, is unclear. Pretty clear the interest has gotten around.
I'd be a little disappointed if two QBs went back to back behind them and they couldn't find anyone to trade down with. Would love to have the Chargers jump the Dolphins or the Dolphins just move up and grab an extra 2nd and/or 3rd.
He's my guy if they go OL at 4. Love the wrestling background with lineman. Obviously love his athletic profile as well, which should come in handy when you a dynamic RB like Saquan that likes to go off script. Iowa is one of the few programs running a pro style, it makes the OL eval a lot more straightforward. I think there's huge upside there with a pretty high floor because of his positional versatility and pedigree.
at least 2 from either Mia or LA to move up if they are both going QB.
I don't know, if both QB's are available, and they both have Tua and Herbert ranked evenly, there is no reason for either to trade up. But if one goes at #3, then another team behind us could get nervous and pull the trigger.
RE: I truly don't get how Wirfs goes ahead of any of the
other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?
Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.
pick up a #2 in this draft, because the second round is looking strong and deep again. DG might then have ammo to trade up from #36 and perhaps target a prospect like Gross-Matos or Baun, if need be to secure an Edge target.
I think this is a really good OT class and 2 or 3 of these guys could
be really good starters. Who you like is more personal opinion. For example in this draft Wills goes 4th behind the other three, some on here ( and other places) like him 1st.
I don't think we can go wrong with Wirfs or Wills. Wirfs is a great athlete and comes from a quality OL school
I'm just not sure there will be a prospect there at 4 to incentivize a team to move up. Tua is most likely off the board and don't see Herbert or Love climbing enough force the Chargers hand there. I can't remember the last time a team traded up into the Top 5 for a non-QB either, think it was the Oregon DE that busted about 10 years ago?
RE: Did he line up opposite chase young at any point
I'd be a little disappointed if two QBs went back to back behind them and they couldn't find anyone to trade down with. Would love to have the Chargers jump the Dolphins or the Dolphins just move up and grab an extra 2nd and/or 3rd.
You got to leverage
give66 : 9:57 am : link : reply
at least 2 from either Mia or LA to move up if they are both going QB.
Miami knows we aren't taking a QB so has absolutely not a shred of a reason to trade up with us. If the Chargers don't feel that the difference between Tua and Herbert is worth spending assets on, or if they think Miami is going to take the one they themselves like less, then they have no reason to trade with us either. There is no reason to suppose that we have the option here that so many on BBI are talking about.
RE: RE: Did he line up opposite chase young at any point
He's my guy if they go OL at 4. Love the wrestling background with lineman. Obviously love his athletic profile as well, which should come in handy when you a dynamic RB like Saquan that likes to go off script. Iowa is one of the few programs running a pro style, it makes the OL eval a lot more straightforward. I think there's huge upside there with a pretty high floor because of his positional versatility and pedigree.
I completely agree. I love Wirfs' game. I think its self-congratulatory BBI greek chorus that is looking to manufacture reasons why Wirfs would be a bad pick.
I'm just not sure there will be a prospect there at 4 to incentivize a team to move up. Tua is most likely off the board and don't see Herbert or Love climbing enough force the Chargers hand there. I can't remember the last time a team traded up into the Top 5 for a non-QB either, think it was the Oregon DE that busted about 10 years ago?
I think you are right here as well. I think the Giants have less leverage than people believe they do. If someone is going to trade up for Too, its going to probably be with Detroit. If Detroit doesn't trade out and Im the Dolphins, there is a good chance I might call the Giants bluff. Also the Giants can not risk falling out of the top 10 because if they do they might no get one of those top 4 Its. The Panthers, Jets, Cardinals, and Browns all have OT needs.
but I don't have high hopes for that AND landing Wirfs. But I'm all for the pick at 4 anyway, time for one of these OLmen to work out, we've been through enough.
Aren’t the Panthers in desperate need of a QB, too?
That’s a major factor. I am definitely on board with Wirfs but in the 6-9 range. The other wild card is if anyone likes Simmons enough to trade with the Giants go pick him.
but is it enough to pick him at #4, is unclear. Pretty clear the interest has gotten around.
Not saying I agree but if Young doesn't drop who is clear BPA i.e. in a higher tier than any/all 4 of the OTs?
Okudah? Simmons? Both great players but so are a couple of the OTs.
They probably see Wirfs as a Left Tackle who can do it all due to his athleticism.
To me though for all the athleticism he plays tight and coiled in the pass game. He doesn't look natural in pass pro like Wills does. He is so gifted athletically though he may still be able to good enough .
I just think Wills and Becton ultimately turn out to be better Left Tackles.
other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?
Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.
You can look great in underwear in drills but be stiff while trying to process all around you in live game action.
It was the main beef that both Cosell and Tucker alluded to. They seemed in strong agreement on this and I saw the same thing they did.
unless they get a great trade down offer. Even if they trade down to 5 or 6, I still think they make the same pick.
Think about adding a defensive player that has to be accounted for on every play. Every team that has had one in the past or present, has a great defense.
could easily see the Giants taking Wirfs at #4. He fits Dave's definition of a "hog mollie." I don't think the Giants will be able to trade down given everything that's happened. But even if they can, they won't pass on a prospect they like to do so.
He's my guy if they go OL at 4. Love the wrestling background with lineman. Obviously love his athletic profile as well, which should come in handy when you a dynamic RB like Saquan that likes to go off script. Iowa is one of the few programs running a pro style, it makes the OL eval a lot more straightforward. I think there's huge upside there with a pretty high floor because of his positional versatility and pedigree.
Cosell and Tucker said the wrestling background is better for an OG. Ironically Wills POINT GUARD background shows better anticipation, peripheral vision, processing and quick change of direction.
We can take the best D on the board and maybe we improve the defense some. But if you do not fix the OL it will be more 3 and out and your improved defense will be on the field for 35-40 minutes a game and gassed by the 4th qtr. If we fix the OL with multiple picks and provide protection for our QB and open holes for our generational RB who has a limited shelf life we can keep our defense off the field and allow them to recover and be better able to do their job. This draft needs to be OL, OL, OL and more OL. Next year I'd do the saturation bombing on D.
other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?
Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.
You can look great in underwear in drills but be stiff while trying to process all around you in live game action.
It was the main beef that both Cosell and Tucker alluded to. They seemed in strong agreement on this and I saw the same thing they did.
I like Cossell's analysis, kinda see the same thing. We want a prototypical elephant with ballerina feet LT at 4, and I don't see the ballerina feet.
pick up a #2 in this draft, because the second round is looking strong and deep again. DG might then have ammo to trade up from #36 and perhaps target a prospect like Gross-Matos or Baun, if need be to secure an Edge target.
Would love to get an extra 2 draft LT 1 and then get an Edge guy and still have a chance at a Delpit or one of the WR who may slide to 36.
And what am I missing on Andrew Thomas that he is never in the discusion as the #1 OT.
Athletically at the combine so I get the appeal but Wills technique seems so much better. Not that Wirfs couldn't improve technique with NFL coaching but watch the video below comparing the two and you might be convinced Wills is the better choice as I was. Wills Vs Wirfs - ( New Window )
pick up a #2 in this draft, because the second round is looking strong and deep again. DG might then have ammo to trade up from #36 and perhaps target a prospect like Gross-Matos or Baun, if need be to secure an Edge target.
Would love to get an extra 2 draft LT 1 and then get an Edge guy and still have a chance at a Delpit or one of the WR who may slide to 36.
And what am I missing on Andrew Thomas that he is never in the discusion as the #1 OT.
When I watched him against top college competition, he really struggled with speed rushers. He would start bending at the waist, grabbing his man, not sliding or moving his feet. Reminiscent of a former recent Giant.
maybe they think he's another Matt Light but all I see is a future Guard, which to be fair, is going to be a need since Zeitler's career is ticking down.
But it's hard for me to trust an evaluation that has Wills the 4th best OT. Now, he's gone by pick #14 so it's not like they don't think he's good. But, the 4th best OT? Like I said, what do I know.
But it's hard for me to trust an evaluation that has Wills the 4th best OT. Now, he's gone by pick #14 so it's not like they don't think he's good. But, the 4th best OT? Like I said, what do I know.
How you think teams will pick and big board don't always match up.
The talent at the top of the 1st Round is the best in many years with four prospects commonly ranked in the Top 12. We were unable to address it in Free Agency.
Ideally we can move back a couple of slots and get our guy at #6 or even #9. Further than that I wouldn't consider.
As far as who the Giants prefer no one has a clue. They can blow as much smoke up everyone's ass as they like. Whether a scout doing the Iowa area told another he really likes Wirfs or another watched Wills defeat Brown one on one in the Iron Bowl and said the same is irrelevant. Those are snapshots that don't give the full picture of the organizations thinking.
We've seen two names amongst the OT's be linked to the Giants Org Torr
I'd be a little disappointed if two QBs went back to back behind them and they couldn't find anyone to trade down with. Would love to have the Chargers jump the Dolphins or the Dolphins just move up and grab an extra 2nd and/or 3rd.
This
I don't know, if both QB's are available, and they both have Tua and Herbert ranked evenly, there is no reason for either to trade up. But if one goes at #3, then another team behind us could get nervous and pull the trigger.
Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.
I don't think we can go wrong with Wirfs or Wills. Wirfs is a great athlete and comes from a quality OL school
Iowa/Ohio State played in 2018, and was OSU's only loss. That said, I don't know if they went head to head at all.
I'd be a little disappointed if two QBs went back to back behind them and they couldn't find anyone to trade down with. Would love to have the Chargers jump the Dolphins or the Dolphins just move up and grab an extra 2nd and/or 3rd.
You got to leverage
give66 : 9:57 am : link : reply
at least 2 from either Mia or LA to move up if they are both going QB.
Miami knows we aren't taking a QB so has absolutely not a shred of a reason to trade up with us. If the Chargers don't feel that the difference between Tua and Herbert is worth spending assets on, or if they think Miami is going to take the one they themselves like less, then they have no reason to trade with us either. There is no reason to suppose that we have the option here that so many on BBI are talking about.
Quote:
Over the last 2 years? If so, how did he perform?
Iowa/Ohio State played in 2018, and was OSU's only loss. That said, I don't know if they went head to head at all.
My mistake, that was 2017, so in all likelihood, they did not match up.
I completely agree. I love Wirfs' game. I think its self-congratulatory BBI greek chorus that is looking to manufacture reasons why Wirfs would be a bad pick.
I think you are right here as well. I think the Giants have less leverage than people believe they do. If someone is going to trade up for Too, its going to probably be with Detroit. If Detroit doesn't trade out and Im the Dolphins, there is a good chance I might call the Giants bluff. Also the Giants can not risk falling out of the top 10 because if they do they might no get one of those top 4 Its. The Panthers, Jets, Cardinals, and Browns all have OT needs.
Not saying I agree but if Young doesn't drop who is clear BPA i.e. in a higher tier than any/all 4 of the OTs?
Okudah? Simmons? Both great players but so are a couple of the OTs.
They probably see Wirfs as a Left Tackle who can do it all due to his athleticism.
To me though for all the athleticism he plays tight and coiled in the pass game. He doesn't look natural in pass pro like Wills does. He is so gifted athletically though he may still be able to good enough .
I just think Wills and Becton ultimately turn out to be better Left Tackles.
Quote:
other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?
Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.
You can look great in underwear in drills but be stiff while trying to process all around you in live game action.
It was the main beef that both Cosell and Tucker alluded to. They seemed in strong agreement on this and I saw the same thing they did.
But, unless Young somehow slips to us or they can't pass up Okudah, I suspect we fill a big need at OT.
Think about adding a defensive player that has to be accounted for on every play. Every team that has had one in the past or present, has a great defense.
Cosell and Tucker said the wrestling background is better for an OG. Ironically Wills POINT GUARD background shows better anticipation, peripheral vision, processing and quick change of direction.
Quote:
In comment 14850155 barens said:
Quote:
other tackles. I could be completely off on this, but don't most of us adhere to the notion that the combine results shouldn't have that big an impact on your final rankings? I thought before the combine, he was the 3rd or fourth ranked tackle, now he's the first?
Wirfs has great film, some people thought he was a little stiff and maybe had short arms. The combine helped assuage those potential knocks.
You can look great in underwear in drills but be stiff while trying to process all around you in live game action.
It was the main beef that both Cosell and Tucker alluded to. They seemed in strong agreement on this and I saw the same thing they did.
I like Cossell's analysis, kinda see the same thing. We want a prototypical elephant with ballerina feet LT at 4, and I don't see the ballerina feet.
Would love to get an extra 2 draft LT 1 and then get an Edge guy and still have a chance at a Delpit or one of the WR who may slide to 36.
And what am I missing on Andrew Thomas that he is never in the discusion as the #1 OT.
Wills Vs Wirfs - ( New Window )
Quote:
pick up a #2 in this draft, because the second round is looking strong and deep again. DG might then have ammo to trade up from #36 and perhaps target a prospect like Gross-Matos or Baun, if need be to secure an Edge target.
Would love to get an extra 2 draft LT 1 and then get an Edge guy and still have a chance at a Delpit or one of the WR who may slide to 36.
And what am I missing on Andrew Thomas that he is never in the discusion as the #1 OT.
When I watched him against top college competition, he really struggled with speed rushers. He would start bending at the waist, grabbing his man, not sliding or moving his feet. Reminiscent of a former recent Giant.
How you think teams will pick and big board don't always match up.
Go down a few spots! They can get and extra 2 for another OL pick.
Go down a few spots! They can get and extra 2 for another OL pick.
Besides Young who is so much better than all 4 OTs? Simmons nor Okudah are in a grouping all by themselves.
Ideally we can move back a couple of slots and get our guy at #6 or even #9. Further than that I wouldn't consider.
As far as who the Giants prefer no one has a clue. They can blow as much smoke up everyone's ass as they like. Whether a scout doing the Iowa area told another he really likes Wirfs or another watched Wills defeat Brown one on one in the Iron Bowl and said the same is irrelevant. Those are snapshots that don't give the full picture of the organizations thinking.
I imagine if they pick an OT, it will be one of those two.