Giants and the number 4 pick

In comment 14850715 LBH15 said:

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I think your post kind of lays out the thinking as to going OT. The defense has been given a bunch of recent investments and then added some more this free agency. Not saying they are proving any rewards yet but my view is DG isn’t going to ignore tackle any further.

Every single thing is pointing that way right now. Fleming at 4 mill is a swing tackle back up only or at best a stop gap while the rookie gets up to speed .

In comment 14850736 MeadowlandsMike said:

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In comment 14850715 LBH15 said: Quote: I think your post kind of lays out the thinking as to going OT. The defense has been given a bunch of recent investments and then added some more this free agency. Not saying they are proving any rewards yet but my view is DG isn’t going to ignore tackle any further. Every single thing is pointing that way right now. Fleming at 4 mill is a swing tackle back up only or at best a stop gap while the rookie gets up to speed .

Yep. I think Fleming was also to get another body in depth chart at OT in case they do decide to play around with that early pick and/or the draft afterwards doesn’t fall their way to still get some quality OTs.

In comment 14850744 LBH15 said:

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In comment 14850736 MeadowlandsMike said: Quote: In comment 14850715 LBH15 said: Quote: I think your post kind of lays out the thinking as to going OT. The defense has been given a bunch of recent investments and then added some more this free agency. Not saying they are proving any rewards yet but my view is DG isn’t going to ignore tackle any further. Every single thing is pointing that way right now. Fleming at 4 mill is a swing tackle back up only or at best a stop gap while the rookie gets up to speed . Yep. I think Fleming was also to get another body in depth chart at OT in case they do decide to play around with that early pick and/or the draft afterwards doesn’t fall their way to still get some quality OTs.

If they can get D Williams on the cheap that would be a low risk high reward get. 2 years removed from injury and still young.

Rookie/Solder-Hernendez-Gates/rookie/Pulley-Zietler-D.Will/Fleming/Gates

In comment 14850386 mdthedream said:

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230lbs he is no passrusher.

At the combine he weighed in closer to 240 lbs than 230 lbs. He weighed in at 238 lbs.

Von Miller weighed in at the combine at 246 lbs.

I don't think Simmons is a guy you're going to have in a pass rushing role, but he is an excellent situational blitzer and I'm pretty sure he can bend well enough to get the edge. He's not going to try and overpower guys, he's going to beat them with speed, and he has plenty of that.

I won't be upset if he is taken at 4.

In comment 14850749 MeadowlandsMike said:

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In comment 14850744 LBH15 said: Quote: In comment 14850736 MeadowlandsMike said: Quote: In comment 14850715 LBH15 said: Quote: I think your post kind of lays out the thinking as to going OT. The defense has been given a bunch of recent investments and then added some more this free agency. Not saying they are proving any rewards yet but my view is DG isn’t going to ignore tackle any further. Every single thing is pointing that way right now. Fleming at 4 mill is a swing tackle back up only or at best a stop gap while the rookie gets up to speed . Yep. I think Fleming was also to get another body in depth chart at OT in case they do decide to play around with that early pick and/or the draft afterwards doesn’t fall their way to still get some quality OTs. If they can get D Williams on the cheap that would be a low risk high reward get. 2 years removed from injury and still young. Rookie/Solder-Hernendez-Gates/rookie/Pulley-Zietler-D.Will/Fleming/Gates

Think it was the Jet game last year when Eric Smith came in to replace an injured Solder at Left Tackle. Except that even though Smith was the "assigned" swing tackle that he had never taken even snap at practice that given week.

Our new coaching staff has tough shoes to fill.

In comment 14850618 LBH15 said:
[quote] In comment 14850558 SteelGiant said:


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Wirfs I have heard some project him at being a great guard and could be a Right Tackle

Wills who has a lot good things as negatives where his effort was in question - or maybe is strong and got bored on plays or brute strength is what he relies on - other negatives written were - he have never played Left tackle - wide stance does not handle counter moves well - Pre-snap penalties were a frequent problem as he recorded multiple false start fouls

Becton - is raw and needs improve technique - has high ceiling but may need time to develop into a left tackle at the NFL

Feel free to debunk or make me feel better about these negatives



Seems like you only want to see the negatives in the OTs. Well, maybe you should go watch films on Solder the last two seasons, or the Giants Right Tackle and see if you see any issues. Oh wait, I forgot...they don’t even have a starting Right Tackle on the roster.

Let’s do this another way. Ok, you propose they draft Simmons...ok fine. Talented guy and will help undoubtedly help the defense. But please give us your strategy as to who plays RT and Center this season, and who plays LT after Giants cut Solder at the end of next season in a cap move? [/quote.

When we look at our draft/FA history for building the OL, our the best lines ('86 , '90, '01, '07, '11) were a mixture of both, not just high draft picks. Pugh, Richburg , Flowers from ''13-15 drafts, were two firsts and a 2nd rounder that just didn't pan out. Flowers and Pugh ended up at different positions (tackle to guard) . Only Eric Moore was a top 10 pick on a championship team ('90 team, he also moved to guard). Will Hernandez a 2nd round pick from '18, regressed last year but can possibly improve with hopefully better coaching. We can find the value/talent for the line but not at #4 with this draft class.

Whichever player they love the most they should take. If the players all fall Into that same rating group, I’d take the OT.

with his skill set. A game changing athletic MLB has always been missing from this team. Carson was great but sideline to sideline talent is very special. Rarely get a shot at them. Unless you draft very early.

For me they do and I would as well.

Wills or Becton.

One guy ready to step in and play at a high level in both phases. The other a man child with upside off the charts.

In comment 14851045 Torrag said:

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For me they do and I would as well. Wills or Becton. One guy ready to step in and play at a high level in both phases. The other a man child with upside off the charts.

usually when it just makes so much sense and all the signs are there, the giants go with the chalk pick, so to speak. there might be some elements of surprise in that pick, but it still fits the narrative. Last year with Jones, they needed the young QB--2017 with Barkley they needed the offensive star to help white wash the shit show of 2017, plus he was clearly the most ready made skill player in that draft.

The Giants need OTs. This draft is loaded with OTs. The Giants spent their FA money on D and drafted a bunch of defensive players last year. Everything is lining up for OT early. The only variable or caveat is the trade down possibility. And even then they still go OT.

the Judge (Garrett) hiring is going to embolden the Giants to draft more projects like Becton and take more risks like this.

Hypothetically - Young falls to #4 - are you still picking the Tackle or have you changed your mind?

Would be the choice for 95% on this board.

In comment 14851317 Carl in CT said:

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Would be the choice for 95% on this board.

That is what I think too - which is what makes me nervous about the Tackle prospects - I do not believe BPA board is really Young, 4 offensive Tackles, then Simmons

I also think if you truly believe one of these or 2 of these tackles are that good, they should be #1 choice regardless if Young was there or not based on the philosophy that we need to fix the line above all else.

Let's assume the Giants scouts agree with the draftnick "talking head" consensus: There are five players most likely to succeed in the NFL: Young, Burrows, Okudah, Brown, and Simmons. If we get to pick #4 and Young or Burrows are available - we jump (think about what we could trade Jones for!). Otherwise, try to trade down. If we find no trade partners, we pick one of the elite players left (probably Simmons or Brown). Better yet, trade down to #6 with the Chargers for, say, a 3rd and 5th rounder. At 6 the same non-QB players are likely to be there (assume Chargers and 'Fins take QBs). Then try to trade down a few more spots with a team dying for Simmons or Brown (e.g., the Jags need D-line help badly). Let's say we get another 3rd and a 7th from the Jags. Then we take one of the top Offensive Tackles at #9 overall, and we've added two 3rds, a 5th, and a 7th.

In comment 14851553 Big Blue Beerguy said:

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Let's assume the Giants scouts agree with the draftnick "talking head" consensus: There are five players most likely to succeed in the NFL: Young, Burrows, Okudah, Brown, and Simmons. If we get to pick #4 and Young or Burrows are available - we jump (think about what we could trade Jones for!). Otherwise, try to trade down. If we find no trade partners, we pick one of the elite players left (probably Simmons or Brown). Better yet, trade down to #6 with the Chargers for, say, a 3rd and 5th rounder. At 6 the same non-QB players are likely to be there (assume Chargers and 'Fins take QBs). Then try to trade down a few more spots with a team dying for Simmons or Brown (e.g., the Jags need D-line help badly). Let's say we get another 3rd and a 7th from the Jags. Then we take one of the top Offensive Tackles at #9 overall, and we've added two 3rds, a 5th, and a 7th.

I agree if taking an OT I would hedge bet with a trade down too.
My dream scenario would be that Miami does not trade with Detroit and Simmons is available at 4, then we put pressure on Miami to trade #5 and #26 to make sure they dont get leaped by a competitor for their QB. Roll the dice and Draft Simmons at #5. Then if an OT falls a bit we try to trade our #26 and #36 which is worth 1240 points which in theory could allow you move back up and grab a tackle as high as 11 is there is a partner willing to move down. But that is a pipe dream scenario - but we would all win in that scenario we get Simmons and a OT - so until the draft - I am keeping my crazy fan dream, if you are going to dream you might as well dream GIANT

Yep, I don't see a way we aren't drafting a Round 1 OT. Factor in Jones development and the investment in Saquon and they'd be almost negligent to leave the position in such squalor as it is now.