Agree with Paul Schwartz’ take on trade down?

and OT

that the ceiling is probably two 2nd rounders, and the floor is probably something like two 3rd rounders if we only move 1 spot.

Now if someone wants to jump up 6 or 7+ spots, then we are looking at a 2021 1st.

...that would be sweet. There's lots of quality OL and WR that will be available in the 2nd round. With two 2nd rounders the Giants could add some serious depth and hopefully a starter.

move down with the Chargers and get two 2nd round picks return(1 this year and 1 next year), that would be great. We would have the 4th and 5th pick in the 2nd round this year. Could get some quality Olineman at those spots or a Edge Rusher/WR

if we are going to take an OT it would be dumb to not trade down with the Chargers for even just a second round pick. As we still in almost all certainty get our pick of T at 6.

IMO top 5 is either (in order of likelihood picked early)

1) Burrow / Young / Tua / Okudah / Simmons

2) Burrow / Young / Tua / Okudah / Herbert

1) Burrow / Young / Tua / Simmons / Herbert

be.

And still get initial target....as they both would be targeting a QB.

As long as Jacksonville, Colts, Raiders and a couple of others show interest in any of the QBs

Even if Detroit jumps to 5....probably looking for a corner....maybe Simmons.

and wanted to draft a RB. A RB. He knew the Jets were desperate for a QB and picking 3rd. There was absolutely ZERO chance the Jets were going to drat a RB #2. What other team would? He didn't even call them.

When he got the green light from the Mara brothers to trade Beckham he called two teams Cleveland & Buffalo which may have been by design but he never even tried to leverage them.

So I'll believe he'll trade down from a much less advantageous spot that will take much more finesse only after it happens.

everyone agrees the Giants should trade down if the opportunity presents itself and most also agree they will not.

What I wonder is if a trade downs with someone like SD or MIA presents itself would you forgo two 2nds or something equivalent for a 2021 1st (plus maybe a 3rd in 2019).

Just imagine pulling that off with MIA or SD and whoever you traded with having a really shitty 2020 season and the Giants sitting at #1 in 2021 with Lawrence and Fields (likely) at the top of that draft.

Worst case they lose confidence in Jones and have their QB of the future, best case Jones does well and they can trade #1 for a Ricky Williams/Hershel Walker like bounty.

So, in short, especially if my trade partner is a team not expected to contend in 2020 I'd be more interested in a 2021 1st than 2020 2nds/3rds.

should say 3rd in 2020

don't think we will really compete this year. And the Chargers or Dolphins are teams that could very well pick top 10 again. Those are the kinds of trades that get you out of the cellar.

In comment 14851530 pjcas18 said:

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everyone agrees the Giants should trade down if the opportunity presents itself and most also agree they will not. What I wonder is if a trade downs with someone like SD or MIA presents itself would you forgo two 2nds or something equivalent for a 2021 1st (plus maybe a 3rd in 2019). Just imagine pulling that off with MIA or SD and whoever you traded with having a really shitty 2020 season and the Giants sitting at #1 in 2021 with Lawrence and Fields (likely) at the top of that draft. Worst case they lose confidence in Jones and have their QB of the future, best case Jones does well and they can trade #1 for a Ricky Williams/Hershel Walker like bounty. So, in short, especially if my trade partner is a team not expected to contend in 2020 I'd be more interested in a 2021 1st than 2020 2nds/3rds.

With all the FA acquisitions Miami collected I think they’d be more receptive to giving up a 2021 #1 because they might not be terrible. Especially if they get Tua with our #4. San Diego, on the other hand, along with Carolina might be angling for Herbert with the loser potentially going all in on “Tanking for Trevor” and would not want to surrender next year’s #1. Just my 2 cents.

and they should absolutely do this. At six if Tua and Burrow go they'll still get one of Simmons, Young, Wirfs, Becton.

its a team other that SD and Miami it will cost them more because they know those teams are eyeing a QB. Example Raiders would give up a lot to move up if they are sold on the QB that they want.

yes, that's my point.

And sure, MIA has improved through FA, but if they draft Tua, we've all seen how rookie QB's can struggle (assuming it's Tua not Fitzpatrick). In fact winning is the rarity. Look at QB's like Peyton and Aikman, let alone someone like Darnold.

And SD right now has Tyrod Taylor as their starting QB. I like their D, but I don't think its carry a team good.

Even if it's CAR or JAX I'd still trade down.

2021 first would be my starting position in a trade down.

But i don't have high hopes of the Giants doing so. They haven't in the past, why would i think it would be any different now.

And not to say they were right not to...
Example, I wanted them to trade down with the Browns and select Big Ben instead of Eli. So glad we got Eli.

But also, i was jumping for joy when Brady Quinn fell to the Giants. Thought for sure a team was going to trade up for him. But no Giants don't trade, so the Cowboys did 2 spots later and got a 2nd (36) and 1st the following year. I like Aaron Ross and all but, would much rather had the draft picks.

And just 2 yrs ago, Sam Darnold falls to them, tell me you couldn't get the Jets to give you something, anything, to move up 1 spot to take him. Come on, you have to be better at poker than that DG.

Burrow to the Bengals and Young to the Redskins. I would be shocked if either of the two teams either traded down or took someone other than the obvious.

Detroit at three holds the keys to the draft, at least as far as the Giants are concerned. No team is going to trade up to four without knowing with absolute certainty which team is picking at three.

I would assume this will be a draft day event, after Chase Young is drafted and the Lions are on the clock.

for

#6, #37 and 71.

We could have #6, #36, #37 and #71...

If the Chargers want Tua like they should.

In comment 14851528 arniefez said:

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and wanted to draft a RB. A RB. He knew the Jets were desperate for a QB and picking 3rd. There was absolutely ZERO chance the Jets were going to drat a RB #2. What other team would? He didn't even call them. When he got the green light from the Mara brothers to trade Beckham he called two teams Cleveland & Buffalo which may have been by design but he never even tried to leverage them. So I'll believe he'll trade down from a much less advantageous spot that will take much more finesse only after it happens.

Seems it's hard to change DG's ways about drafting. I don't see much chance that he changes now and trades down.

Needs to make up for giving that 3rd for Williams. No easier way to get it back and more.

We are all assuming Miami (or whoever) will offer something we want.

In comment 14851528 arniefez said:

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and wanted to draft a RB. A RB. He knew the Jets were desperate for a QB and picking 3rd. There was absolutely ZERO chance the Jets were going to drat a RB #2. What other team would? He didn't even call them. When he got the green light from the Mara brothers to trade Beckham he called two teams Cleveland & Buffalo which may have been by design but he never even tried to leverage them. So I'll believe he'll trade down from a much less advantageous spot that will take much more finesse only after it happens.

How is that possible if the Jets didn't have a 2nd round pick? I assume your saying the Jets were offering?

What if Jax really wants Tua/Herbert? They have 9 and 20. If Miami truly is extremely locked into 1 of the QBs, would it be possible to trade back a spot and end up with 18 or 26?
I don’t think so, but DG potentially could have very good leverage if Jacksonville calls.

In comment 14851572 UGADawgs7 said:

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What if Jax really wants Tua/Herbert? They have 9 and 20. If Miami truly is extremely locked into 1 of the QBs, would it be possible to trade back a spot and end up with 18 or 26? I don’t think so, but DG potentially could have very good leverage if Jacksonville calls.

Perhaps any trade with Jax could involve Yannick Ngakoue?

In comment 14851534 The_Boss said:

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In comment 14851530 pjcas18 said: Quote: everyone agrees the Giants should trade down if the opportunity presents itself and most also agree they will not. What I wonder is if a trade downs with someone like SD or MIA presents itself would you forgo two 2nds or something equivalent for a 2021 1st (plus maybe a 3rd in 2019). Just imagine pulling that off with MIA or SD and whoever you traded with having a really shitty 2020 season and the Giants sitting at #1 in 2021 with Lawrence and Fields (likely) at the top of that draft. Worst case they lose confidence in Jones and have their QB of the future, best case Jones does well and they can trade #1 for a Ricky Williams/Hershel Walker like bounty. So, in short, especially if my trade partner is a team not expected to contend in 2020 I'd be more interested in a 2021 1st than 2020 2nds/3rds. With all the FA acquisitions Miami collected I think they’d be more receptive to giving up a 2021 #1 because they might not be terrible. Especially if they get Tua with our #4. San Diego, on the other hand, along with Carolina might be angling for Herbert with the loser potentially going all in on “Tanking for Trevor” and would not want to surrender next year’s #1. Just my 2 cents.

I think you are right. I think Carolina is the team that is going to be very aggressive in moving up.

The great thing about the Giants' spot at 4 is that there will be at least one of "the big three" QBs (Burrow, Herbert, and Tua) available at their spot, OR Chase Young. So in any scenario, a trade down is either a strong possibility OR the Giants just take an elite pass-rusher at #4 if the big 3 go 1,2,3.

You always need a partner, but I'll be pretty disappointed if one of those QBs are at our spot and we don't trade down and just take a player at 4, like Simmons, even though I do like Simmons.

is pretty silly to me. What's the sample size? 7

That's a pretty tiny sample.

I don't know if he will or not this time (my guess is it depends on offers), but I really doubt he has some kind of irrational aversion and will therefore NEVER trade down.

But SD's #6 and 2nd and 3rd would be good. Come on SD, you need to draw in the LA fans with Tua!

third, fifth or second (in that order) than he is to go at four. He is only +900 to be taken fourth.

And Herbert is favored to go sixth or later.

Doesn't add up to a strong predictor of a trade down being available.

Quote:

When is Tua Tagovailoa selected? Third overall +175 Fifth overall +200 Second overall +400 Fourth overall +900 Sixth overall +900 Field (any other pick) +900 When will Justin Herbert be drafted? OVER 5.5 pick -250 UNDER 5.5 pick +170

3/26/20 oddshark - ( New Window )

In comment 14851566 PatersonPlank said:

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We are all assuming Miami (or whoever) will offer something we want.

+1 it's easy to say trade down, but probably harder to do

but doubt we will find a partner to trade with. I think it is more likely to happen at #2 or #3.

Miami trades up to 2 or (more likley) 3 and takes Tua. Then, assuming some teams really want Herbert, they are more likely to trade with Wash or Detroit at #5 than with us at #4, since they will give up less and know that we aren't gonna take a QB. In fact, if it plays out that way, I think we prob don't get a good offer to trade down. Best scenario for us: Burrow is only QB taken in top 3. Next best scenario: some team other than Miami trades up to 2 or 3 and takes Tua. Then, either Miami, or some other team that wants Herbert, has an incentive to trade up to make sure they get their guy.

In comment 14851629 shyster said:

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third, fifth or second (in that order) than he is to go at four. He is only +900 to be taken fourth. And Herbert is favored to go sixth or later. Doesn't add up to a strong predictor of a trade down being available. Quote: When is Tua Tagovailoa selected? Third overall +175 Fifth overall +200 Second overall +400 Fourth overall +900 Sixth overall +900 Field (any other pick) +900 When will Justin Herbert be drafted? OVER 5.5 pick -250 UNDER 5.5 pick +170 3/26/20 oddshark - ( New Window )

Do you really think odds are relevant? :)

In comment 14851641 Big Blue '56 said:

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Do you really think odds are relevant? :)

You don't need the odds to analyze the situation and have doubts that a trade down will be available but they do serve to confirm those doubts.

Lot of people want a trade down and I would favor it myself. If it doesn't happen, I will presume it probably wasn't available rather than that DG refused to consider the opportunity.

and more picks they will go for it without a doubt but can they?

would be if Cincy drafted Chase Young. Throw a wrench into everything. I realize there's a slim to none chance, but it would give me a good hardy laugh at the Redskins expense.

none of this happens.

In comment 14851636 BigBlueNH said:

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Miami trades up to 2 or (more likley) 3 and takes Tua. Then, assuming some teams really want Herbert, they are more likely to trade with Wash or Detroit at #5 than with us at #4, since they will give up less and know that we aren't gonna take a QB. In fact, if it plays out that way, I think we prob don't get a good offer to trade down. Best scenario for us: Burrow is only QB taken in top 3. Next best scenario: some team other than Miami trades up to 2 or 3 and takes Tua. Then, either Miami, or some other team that wants Herbert, has an incentive to trade up to make sure they get their guy.

If Burrow goes #1 and Miami trades up to 2 and drafts Tua. The Giants should be looking to trade up to #3 and draft Young

maybe you even get a bidding war going between Miami and LAC.

Obviously, I would wait until the pick is on the clock before pulling the trigger. If Chase Young somehow falls, I'm taking him.

I guess we should pick up a phone and ask, but why on earth would Detroit be willing to hand us Chase Young for anything less than a haul of draft picks, which we can't afford to hand over - too many holes to fill.

In comment 14851655 shyster said:

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In comment 14851641 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: Do you really think odds are relevant? :) You don't need the odds to analyze the situation and have doubts that a trade down will be available but they do serve to confirm those doubts. Lot of people want a trade down and I would favor it myself. If it doesn't happen, I will presume it probably wasn't available rather than that DG refused to consider the opportunity.

Agreed

I fear this discussion is clouded by wishful thinking and hatred of DG. If Miami wants a QB, it has absolutely ZERO reason to trade with us. They know we are not taking a QB. If the Chargers want a player they fear Miami may take, then they do have a motivation to leapfrog Miami by trading with us. This is the ideal scenario for us because if the Chargers jump ahead to get a QB and Miami takes a QB, then there is zero opportunity cost for us. Whomever we would have taken at 4 will still be there at 6. And we acquire an additional asset. It is more complicated if a team further back than the Chargers wants our pick. If we trade back several places, then we may have to settle for a player who is not as good as the one we could get at 4 perhaps Okudah or Simmons, for argument's sake. That still might be worth doing in order to get more picks, but it's a trade off. The least useful contributions to this discussion are ones that say, well, if a whole bunch of players after Young and QBs are equal, then we should definitely trade back--and it DG doesn't do that he is malfeasant. That is perfectly true if the premise is correct. But who is to say that it is?

If we can get a 1st rounder next year to go with a few picks this year. Get a nice little haul this year in a strong draft for positions we need and then get ready for a run next year with 2 1st rounders.

to Gettleman to see what they could do for a trade up. I am sure that Leonard Williams deal raised some eyebrows around the league and maybe they think he can be had.

Incentive for Miami to trade up unless the Giants have a serious offer from another team like the Chargers. Doubtful that DG can bluff that well and the GMs all know who everyone else is interested in anyway.

In comment 14851735 Ivan15 said:

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Incentive for Miami to trade up unless the Giants have a serious offer from another team like the Chargers. Doubtful that DG can bluff that well and the GMs all know who everyone else is interested in anyway.

The most benefit in having 2 interested parties is the competitive tension it causes and the ability to get the greatest return.

While I do agree have 2 interested parties greatly increases the chances of getting to a deal, there are still plenty of times I am sure where there is only one and it still gets done.

since this team has so many holes, imo the question really is, (assuming you draft well)

-can you fill ONE hole with the 4th overall pick,

or,

- can you fill TWO holes with the, idk, 10&20, or 6&40

but, ie, revisit last year and consider, would you rather have jones, or lawrence and baker...

In comment 14851708 Josh in MD said:

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I fear this discussion is clouded by wishful thinking and hatred of DG. If Miami wants a QB, it has absolutely ZERO reason to trade with us. They know we are not taking a QB. If the Chargers want a player they fear Miami may take, then they do have a motivation to leapfrog Miami by trading with us. This is the ideal scenario for us because if the Chargers jump ahead to get a QB and Miami takes a QB, then there is zero opportunity cost for us. Whomever we would have taken at 4 will still be there at 6. And we acquire an additional asset. It is more complicated if a team further back than the Chargers wants our pick. If we trade back several places, then we may have to settle for a player who is not as good as the one we could get at 4 perhaps Okudah or Simmons, for argument's sake. That still might be worth doing in order to get more picks, but it's a trade off. The least useful contributions to this discussion are ones that say, well, if a whole bunch of players after Young and QBs are equal, then we should definitely trade back--and it DG doesn't do that he is malfeasant. That is perfectly true if the premise is correct. But who is to say that it is?

Miami's motivation to trade with the Giants is to stop other teams from leapfrogging them and taking the QB they want.

motivation would be similar to what motivated the Bears to send two 3rd's and a 4th to SF to move up from 3 to 2 and take Trubisky.

the fish can't just sit there and say 'we know ny is not taking a qb'. they have to consider that ny might trade #4 to another team looking for a qb

(this is similar to the common refrain here that 'dg didn't have to trade for LW, he coulda just signed him after the season as a fa', but what if jests had traded lw to another team that immediately gave lw a new K? then lw never gets to fa for dg to have a chance at signing. now is that worth a 3rd, idk. disclaimer i like lw)

In comment 14851760 pjcas18 said:

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motivation would be similar to what motivated the Bears to send two 3rd's and a 4th to SF to move up from 3 to 2 and take Trubisky.

Yup. That could certainly affect Miami just as you opine