He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
I agree Flowers is a lazy comparison.
Trent Brown (who he's worked out with), Bryant McKinnie, and Tyron Smith are also good comparisons as far as size and footwork. He's a rare player. You just don't see guys this big move that well. He's got a few things to work on but I've talked with Duke. His effort and work ethic are non-issues.
sees, regarding Becton‘s lack of technique but making it up with his athletic ability. It sure looks difficult to get around him. I would not mind him being the selection at #4, as long as he can learn proper technique. If Colombo teaches him properly, the Giants may very well have one of the best tackles in the league.
In comment 14852392 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
made a comment suggesting that he may be somewhat lacking from the neck up
Lacking from the neck up is one thing, I care more about his attitude. Yeah ideally he'd be smart in order to pick up coaching faster. It's another to be dumb and have a temperament like Flowers where he thinks he knows best.
Flowers had no flexibility and extremely poor balance
Becton is a different athlete with more than triangle numbers. He can actually roll his hips. I’d be excited for Wills, Becton, or Wirfs in that Oder with a bonus on the trade down.
His potential is sky High, IMO ... his attitude/interview/character is worth everything in the evaluation.
sees, regarding Becton‘s lack of technique but making it up with his athletic ability. It sure looks difficult to get around him. I would not mind him being the selection at #4, as long as he can learn proper technique. If Colombo teaches him properly, the Giants may very well have one of the best tackles in the league.
This is what we brought in a new OL coach for. To harness and bring out the upside of the guys we draft. To teach them proper technique.
He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
I agree Flowers is a lazy comparison.
Trent Brown (who he's worked out with), Bryant McKinnie, and Tyron Smith are also good comparisons as far as size and footwork. He's a rare player. You just don't see guys this big move that well. He's got a few things to work on but I've talked with Duke. His effort and work ethic are non-issues.
I think Becton has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. The other 3 look like maybe average RT’s or interior guys.
If the Giants go OT in round 1 my preference would be to roll the dice on Becton. The technique is definitely an issue but I think he’s worth the risk.
But if I had to choose the one it's the one that I think could be a franchise Left Tackle and that is Becton. He will need some coaching and development but he seems to have the effort and rare athletic for a man his size but that is a risk
Wiffs, I mean Wirfs has write ups about him being project as a great Guard and possible RT, not really what I want to here about the guy being picked at 4.
Wills has concerns too. He seems like he leans on his brute strength more than any them. He only played RT, has short arms for position and has shown that he has issues with inside moves. I worry about when he faces the best pass rushers it will take more effort that he is used to and may not be able to adjust.
If you guys just want A tackle I think they all could be A tackle but that does not make them worth the pick. You better think they not just A tackle.
'Wills short arms for position and has has issues with inside moves"
In comment 14852392 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
made a comment suggesting that he may be somewhat lacking from the neck up
If he made a comment like that it shows Dave is the one lacking from the neck up.
Did you scout him or talk to him(Becton)? I think Dave did, but since I did not I'd leave it to the scouts to determine his football acumen.
But he is very off balance and relies on shoving defenders with his overwhelming strength in pass protection. He loses contact and is slow to recover, allowing the DE/ER to scoot on by him.
Yes his physical dominance over college players is tremendous. He needs a huge technique retool to make it in the NFL. If the Giants have the time to let him sit on the bench and learn, he may come around and be dominant. Big if.
I like him, but not sure they can count on him absolutely transforming.
Becton is a Cowboys-type OL in the Leonard Davis mold. But this is the Giants. I think they go Wirfs or Andrew Thomas (with the big SEC influence on the coaching staff).
Flowers had square cement blocks for feet. He had good coaching, tried hard, which only exacerbated his futility. When the Skins moved him inside became a decent players; many NFL OTs have failed at OT and became good contributors at guard.
Draft Position: 1st Offensive Lineman Drafted (All Bets Action) 2020-04-23 19:00
Price Price
Tristan Wirfs EVEN
Bet
Mekhi Becton +170
Bet
Jedrick Wills +350
Bet
Andrew Thomas +1,200
He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
None of them are Flowers, period.
I don’t like Thomas’s game at all. If there is a Flowers he’s it.
I couldn't disagree more, I like Thomas, and he's held up really well against the stiffest of competition.
I remember watching Flowers in college, and while he looked good getting off the bus, he never really looked that great, especially when the competition got better.
I like what I see from Thomas, and I don't always get why he's overlooked by some.
I think Becton has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. The other 3 look like maybe average RT’s or interior guys.
Then you need to go watch Jedrick Wills tape man...sorry, but really doubt you've watched him much if you think he's an average RT or interior player...that's crowd-speak and frankly 100% wrong. He is the best and safest [b]LT[/] prospect in this class.
And I am a huge Becton fan, but he has bust potential along with his amazing talents...Wills has no bust potential and is ready to start from day one. (I will be thrilled with either, but will immediatly worry about Becton, Wills not so much he's plug and play at either tackle spot, but he is our LT sooner than later)
Doesn’t do ANYTHING that he will need to do TECHNICALLY
I think Becton has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. The other 3 look like maybe average RT’s or interior guys.
Then you need to go watch Jedrick Wills tape man...sorry, but really doubt you've watched him much if you think he's an average RT or interior player...that's crowd-speak and frankly 100% wrong. He is the best and safest [b]LT[/] prospect in this class.
And I am a huge Becton fan, but he has bust potential along with his amazing talents...Wills has no bust potential and is ready to start from day one. (I will be thrilled with either, but will immediatly worry about Becton, Wills not so much he's plug and play at either tackle spot, but he is our LT sooner than later)
Wills could develop into a nice LT, but I wouldn’t call him a plug and play at either tackle position right now. He only played RT in college.
I think Becton has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. The other 3 look like maybe average RT’s or interior guys.
Then you need to go watch Jedrick Wills tape man...sorry, but really doubt you've watched him much if you think he's an average RT or interior player...that's crowd-speak and frankly 100% wrong. He is the best and safest [b]LT[/] prospect in this class.
And I am a huge Becton fan, but he has bust potential along with his amazing talents...Wills has no bust potential and is ready to start from day one. (I will be thrilled with either, but will immediatly worry about Becton, Wills not so much he's plug and play at either tackle spot, but he is our LT sooner than later)
Wills could develop into a nice LT, but I wouldn’t call him a plug and play at either tackle position right now. He only played RT in college.
This is one of those cerebral uber coordinated kids that you expect to pick up things quickly.
Becton looks like a better prospect than Flowers ever was....he gets it, and appears smarter on the field as well......at least compared in the small sample size of vids here. Flowers Rookie Tape - ( New Window )
want Becton despite him supposedly being a project? I would think that Wills's ceiling is closer to Becton's ceiling than his floor is to Becton's floor. We have a guy that seems polished and good and so many people prefer the project at 4. I don't get it. And I don't even hear the Giants ever associated with Wills. Why take projects?
RE: Can someone explain what's wrong with Wills that so many people
want Becton despite him supposedly being a project? I would think that Wills's ceiling is closer to Becton's ceiling than his floor is to Becton's floor. We have a guy that seems polished and good and so many people prefer the project at 4. I don't get it. And I don't even hear the Giants ever associated with Wills. Why take projects?
Becton has the Ogden. Orlando Pace upside. Shutdown gold jacket generational upside. Wills isn't quite that ceiling but is pro bowl caliber in his own right.
RE: Can someone explain what's wrong with Wills that so many people
want Becton despite him supposedly being a project? I would think that Wills's ceiling is closer to Becton's ceiling than his floor is to Becton's floor. We have a guy that seems polished and good and so many people prefer the project at 4. I don't get it. And I don't even hear the Giants ever associated with Wills. Why take projects?
Because it's not a definite that he's a project. He's started all three years at Louisville, and he's dominated some really good competition. He still has some to learn, but he's not some project coming in from a small school, he's got experience, he's got athleticism for his size...the only thing unknown is his smarts, and how quickly he can pick things up, which none of us know.
RE: Can someone explain what's wrong with Wills that so many people
want Becton despite him supposedly being a project? I would think that Wills's ceiling is closer to Becton's ceiling than his floor is to Becton's floor. We have a guy that seems polished and good and so many people prefer the project at 4. I don't get it. And I don't even hear the Giants ever associated with Wills. Why take projects?
They are associated with him.
Some people are focusing on the possible higher ceiling, and are willing to gamble.
RE: RE: Can someone explain what's wrong with Wills that so many people
want Becton despite him supposedly being a project? I would think that Wills's ceiling is closer to Becton's ceiling than his floor is to Becton's floor. We have a guy that seems polished and good and so many people prefer the project at 4. I don't get it. And I don't even hear the Giants ever associated with Wills. Why take projects?
Becton has the Ogden. Orlando Pace upside. Shutdown gold jacket generational upside. Wills isn't quite that ceiling but is pro bowl caliber in his own right.
Thanks to you and the others that responded. If risk that seems to be not insignificant worth possibly getting to gold jacket generational?
He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
Gettleman doesn't have the luxury on a guy who is going to develop. He needs players NOW. He botched the year 1 blow it up approach putting him on the hot seat. Please get Wills and Ruiz!
How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Thanks for the info. But I always valued technique, maybe that's why I like Wills.
How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Thanks for the info. But I always valued technique, maybe that's why I like Wills.
Best... I like to think of it this way. Wills is almost a sure booming double , Becton is the grand slam that has a bit of a chance of becoming quite a bit less.
How good is your evaluation, how much do you trust what you see? Why even bother with the risk when we have floundered on the OL for so long? I can see it both ways.
Would have no issue with either pick. Wirfs for all the athleticism is more unatural in pass pro out in space.
How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Thanks for the info. But I always valued technique, maybe that's why I like Wills.
Best... I like to think of it this way. Wills is almost a sure booming double , Becton is the grand slam that has a bit of a chance of becoming quite a bit less.
How good is your evaluation, how much do you trust what you see? Why even bother with the risk when we have floundered on the OL for so long? I can see it both ways.
Would have no issue with either pick. Wirfs for all the athleticism is more unatural in pass pro out in space.
Just like route running is so critical for a WR vs. other aspects like pure straight line speed which maybe sexy but is overrated.
For an LT technique and footwork is absolutely critical. Some guys you can coach up a bit some you can't (Flowers). The mauling and power aspect and height aspect is a bit overrated. Better arm length vs. height is more important. This doesn't mean 6'2 but it means 6'4 and above is fine with 34 + inch arms and great technique and footwork. Wills is so so good already on so many levels . He isnt that rare freak but he has near elite traits across the board. When you put the whole package together their is almost no hole in his game. You want steady at that position first and foremost . If you can get more that's just the icing on the cake. Do you take a bit more risk for that potential absolute dominant player in Becton or do you go with the almost sure thing in Wills who will be a pro bowl level player but not necessarily one of those outright dominant guys that just make all types of rushers look silly.
Just like route running is so critical for a WR vs. other aspects like pure straight line speed which maybe sexy but is overrated.
For an LT technique and footwork is absolutely critical. Some guys you can coach up a bit some you can't (Flowers). The mauling and power aspect and height aspect is a bit overrated. Better arm length vs. height is more important. This doesn't mean 6'2 but it means 6'4 and above is fine with 34 + inch arms and great technique and footwork. Wills is so so good already on so many levels . He isnt that rare freak but he has near elite traits across the board. When you put the whole package together their is almost no hole in his game. You want steady at that position first and foremost . If you can get more that's just the icing on the cake. Do you take a bit more risk for that potential absolute dominant player in Becton or do you go with the almost sure thing in Wills who will be a pro bowl level player but not necessarily one of those outright dominant guys that just make all types of rushers look silly.
I was thinking exactly about route running. There are just things that almost guarantee you will be good.
RE: RE: Im totally on board with your thinking though
Just like route running is so critical for a WR vs. other aspects like pure straight line speed which maybe sexy but is overrated.
For an LT technique and footwork is absolutely critical. Some guys you can coach up a bit some you can't (Flowers). The mauling and power aspect and height aspect is a bit overrated. Better arm length vs. height is more important. This doesn't mean 6'2 but it means 6'4 and above is fine with 34 + inch arms and great technique and footwork. Wills is so so good already on so many levels . He isnt that rare freak but he has near elite traits across the board. When you put the whole package together their is almost no hole in his game. You want steady at that position first and foremost . If you can get more that's just the icing on the cake. Do you take a bit more risk for that potential absolute dominant player in Becton or do you go with the almost sure thing in Wills who will be a pro bowl level player but not necessarily one of those outright dominant guys that just make all types of rushers look silly.
I was thinking exactly about route running. There are just things that almost guarantee you will be good.
Will Beatty was kind of soft not that powerful but had pretty good technique and very good feet. Petitgout was somewhat similar. Before either got hurt both were pretty good LTs. Pass pro is the most important aspect for blindside.
Now Wills or Becton will give us that and much more in theory at a very critical position.
Be an immediate impact player at #4 on a team without a lot of talent. We shouldn’t be “looking at a project” and miss like Apple or Flowers. We need to find a “Player” whomever that is. Needs at every position on this team (except RB and maybe QB for at least this year). Do your homework Dave, you are earning a pay check.
I can look at the films of these OTs and see plenty
of good and bad. Whether the problems are symptomatic of larger issues or assessing their ceilings...no clue. Quite frankly, I would presume that is basically 99% of BBI as well. So determining whether Becto, Thomas or one of the other guys should be the choice is a whole different matter best left to DG/front office.
With that said, there are plenty of OTs that seem to make the grade to be high picks this year; good OTs are not typically not in this high supply in drafts; and Giants are probably in position to grab their favorite at #4.
If they don't, and then watch everyone on their OT list get taken before they pick again in the 2nd round, then they just made about as risky a draft decision as I have seen in quite a while.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
I agree Flowers is a lazy comparison.
Trent Brown (who he's worked out with), Bryant McKinnie, and Tyron Smith are also good comparisons as far as size and footwork. He's a rare player. You just don't see guys this big move that well. He's got a few things to work on but I've talked with Duke. His effort and work ethic are non-issues.
Flowers had no footwork. If you don't have the footwork, you're never going to get it and you will never be any good.
Becton has the footwork though.
This
Lacking from the neck up is one thing, I care more about his attitude. Yeah ideally he'd be smart in order to pick up coaching faster. It's another to be dumb and have a temperament like Flowers where he thinks he knows best.
His potential is sky High, IMO ... his attitude/interview/character is worth everything in the evaluation.
If he made a comment like that it shows Dave is the one lacking from the neck up.
This is what we brought in a new OL coach for. To harness and bring out the upside of the guys we draft. To teach them proper technique.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
None of them are Flowers, period.
Quote:
He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
None of them are Flowers, period.
I don’t like Thomas’s game at all. If there is a Flowers he’s it.
Quote:
He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
I agree Flowers is a lazy comparison.
Trent Brown (who he's worked out with), Bryant McKinnie, and Tyron Smith are also good comparisons as far as size and footwork. He's a rare player. You just don't see guys this big move that well. He's got a few things to work on but I've talked with Duke. His effort and work ethic are non-issues.
I think Becton has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. The other 3 look like maybe average RT’s or interior guys.
If the Giants go OT in round 1 my preference would be to roll the dice on Becton. The technique is definitely an issue but I think he’s worth the risk.
Wiffs, I mean Wirfs has write ups about him being project as a great Guard and possible RT, not really what I want to here about the guy being picked at 4.
Wills has concerns too. He seems like he leans on his brute strength more than any them. He only played RT, has short arms for position and has shown that he has issues with inside moves. I worry about when he faces the best pass rushers it will take more effort that he is used to and may not be able to adjust.
If you guys just want A tackle I think they all could be A tackle but that does not make them worth the pick. You better think they not just A tackle.
Quote:
made a comment suggesting that he may be somewhat lacking from the neck up
If he made a comment like that it shows Dave is the one lacking from the neck up.
Did you scout him or talk to him(Becton)? I think Dave did, but since I did not I'd leave it to the scouts to determine his football acumen.
But he is very off balance and relies on shoving defenders with his overwhelming strength in pass protection. He loses contact and is slow to recover, allowing the DE/ER to scoot on by him.
Yes his physical dominance over college players is tremendous. He needs a huge technique retool to make it in the NFL. If the Giants have the time to let him sit on the bench and learn, he may come around and be dominant. Big if.
I like him, but not sure they can count on him absolutely transforming.
Becton is a Cowboys-type OL in the Leonard Davis mold. But this is the Giants. I think they go Wirfs or Andrew Thomas (with the big SEC influence on the coaching staff).
Flowers had square cement blocks for feet. He had good coaching, tried hard, which only exacerbated his futility. When the Skins moved him inside became a decent players; many NFL OTs have failed at OT and became good contributors at guard.
Price Price
Tristan Wirfs EVEN
Bet
Mekhi Becton +170
Bet
Jedrick Wills +350
Bet
Andrew Thomas +1,200
This is the ultimate question. Flowers had the physical ability but was DUMB AS ROCKS and not willing to listen or learn.
And reminder, Becton played in 2 very different offenses at Louisville, Petrino and Satterfield.
Quote:
In comment 14852335 WillVAB said:
Quote:
He needs work but he’s the only one of the top four people tout here that can play LT imv.
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
None of them are Flowers, period.
I don’t like Thomas’s game at all. If there is a Flowers he’s it.
I couldn't disagree more, I like Thomas, and he's held up really well against the stiffest of competition.
I remember watching Flowers in college, and while he looked good getting off the bus, he never really looked that great, especially when the competition got better.
I like what I see from Thomas, and I don't always get why he's overlooked by some.
Then you need to go watch Jedrick Wills tape man...sorry, but really doubt you've watched him much if you think he's an average RT or interior player...that's crowd-speak and frankly 100% wrong. He is the best and safest [b]LT[/] prospect in this class.
And I am a huge Becton fan, but he has bust potential along with his amazing talents...Wills has no bust potential and is ready to start from day one. (I will be thrilled with either, but will immediatly worry about Becton, Wills not so much he's plug and play at either tackle spot, but he is our LT sooner than later)
I’d need a heavy belief in HIM and his horizon to draft him where they are drafting
Then you need to go watch Jedrick Wills tape man...sorry, but really doubt you've watched him much if you think he's an average RT or interior player...that's crowd-speak and frankly 100% wrong. He is the best and safest [b]LT[/] prospect in this class.
And I am a huge Becton fan, but he has bust potential along with his amazing talents...Wills has no bust potential and is ready to start from day one. (I will be thrilled with either, but will immediatly worry about Becton, Wills not so much he's plug and play at either tackle spot, but he is our LT sooner than later)
Wills could develop into a nice LT, but I wouldn’t call him a plug and play at either tackle position right now. He only played RT in college.
The JPP of QBs? Pass on a raw prospect at 4.
Quote:
I think Becton has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. The other 3 look like maybe average RT’s or interior guys.
Then you need to go watch Jedrick Wills tape man...sorry, but really doubt you've watched him much if you think he's an average RT or interior player...that's crowd-speak and frankly 100% wrong. He is the best and safest [b]LT[/] prospect in this class.
And I am a huge Becton fan, but he has bust potential along with his amazing talents...Wills has no bust potential and is ready to start from day one. (I will be thrilled with either, but will immediatly worry about Becton, Wills not so much he's plug and play at either tackle spot, but he is our LT sooner than later)
Wills could develop into a nice LT, but I wouldn’t call him a plug and play at either tackle position right now. He only played RT in college.
This is one of those cerebral uber coordinated kids that you expect to pick up things quickly.
Flowers Rookie Tape - ( New Window )
Quote:
the only questions I have is is he a willing learner, and will he put the work in? Because everything else is there.
This is the ultimate question. Flowers had the physical ability but was DUMB AS ROCKS and not willing to listen or learn.
+1
- Flowers never "got it"
- Becton already has that intangible, and "gets it", plus uses his size wisely
Becton has the Ogden. Orlando Pace upside. Shutdown gold jacket generational upside. Wills isn't quite that ceiling but is pro bowl caliber in his own right.
Because it's not a definite that he's a project. He's started all three years at Louisville, and he's dominated some really good competition. He still has some to learn, but he's not some project coming in from a small school, he's got experience, he's got athleticism for his size...the only thing unknown is his smarts, and how quickly he can pick things up, which none of us know.
They are associated with him.
Some people are focusing on the possible higher ceiling, and are willing to gamble.
Quote:
want Becton despite him supposedly being a project? I would think that Wills's ceiling is closer to Becton's ceiling than his floor is to Becton's floor. We have a guy that seems polished and good and so many people prefer the project at 4. I don't get it. And I don't even hear the Giants ever associated with Wills. Why take projects?
Becton has the Ogden. Orlando Pace upside. Shutdown gold jacket generational upside. Wills isn't quite that ceiling but is pro bowl caliber in his own right.
Thanks to you and the others that responded. If risk that seems to be not insignificant worth possibly getting to gold jacket generational?
People have tossed out Flowers with Becton and he’s not Flowers. Thomas is Flowers. Becton is like Orlando Brown from the Ravens with better movement.
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Quote:
How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Thanks for the info. But I always valued technique, maybe that's why I like Wills.
Quote:
In comment 14853422 BestFeature said:
Quote:
How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Thanks for the info. But I always valued technique, maybe that's why I like Wills.
Best... I like to think of it this way. Wills is almost a sure booming double , Becton is the grand slam that has a bit of a chance of becoming quite a bit less.
How good is your evaluation, how much do you trust what you see? Why even bother with the risk when we have floundered on the OL for so long? I can see it both ways.
Would have no issue with either pick. Wirfs for all the athleticism is more unatural in pass pro out in space.
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In comment 14853434 MeadowlandsMike said:
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In comment 14853422 BestFeature said:
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How much higher can a ceiling be for a guy that supposedly has very good athleticism in his own right and great technique?
Its the 'conondrum'that both Torrag and I have articulated at length.
Torrag used to be much cooler on Becton but after watching more tape has seen just how immense the upside is combined with encouraging intangibles such as willingness to learn, doing well in interviews etc.
When you realize he had a lot of sub par coaching yet you still see a lot of flashes of great mobility and smoothness in his game, it becomes a lot easier to think the ability to realize potential is not as high risk as some think. Jeremiah and a few others like Cossel and Tucker picked up on this as well. The size and agility ratio this kid has is really really rare.
Thanks for the info. But I always valued technique, maybe that's why I like Wills.
Best... I like to think of it this way. Wills is almost a sure booming double , Becton is the grand slam that has a bit of a chance of becoming quite a bit less.
How good is your evaluation, how much do you trust what you see? Why even bother with the risk when we have floundered on the OL for so long? I can see it both ways.
Would have no issue with either pick. Wirfs for all the athleticism is more unatural in pass pro out in space.
You are pretty persuasive, I must say.
For an LT technique and footwork is absolutely critical. Some guys you can coach up a bit some you can't (Flowers). The mauling and power aspect and height aspect is a bit overrated. Better arm length vs. height is more important. This doesn't mean 6'2 but it means 6'4 and above is fine with 34 + inch arms and great technique and footwork. Wills is so so good already on so many levels . He isnt that rare freak but he has near elite traits across the board. When you put the whole package together their is almost no hole in his game. You want steady at that position first and foremost . If you can get more that's just the icing on the cake. Do you take a bit more risk for that potential absolute dominant player in Becton or do you go with the almost sure thing in Wills who will be a pro bowl level player but not necessarily one of those outright dominant guys that just make all types of rushers look silly.
For an LT technique and footwork is absolutely critical. Some guys you can coach up a bit some you can't (Flowers). The mauling and power aspect and height aspect is a bit overrated. Better arm length vs. height is more important. This doesn't mean 6'2 but it means 6'4 and above is fine with 34 + inch arms and great technique and footwork. Wills is so so good already on so many levels . He isnt that rare freak but he has near elite traits across the board. When you put the whole package together their is almost no hole in his game. You want steady at that position first and foremost . If you can get more that's just the icing on the cake. Do you take a bit more risk for that potential absolute dominant player in Becton or do you go with the almost sure thing in Wills who will be a pro bowl level player but not necessarily one of those outright dominant guys that just make all types of rushers look silly.
I was thinking exactly about route running. There are just things that almost guarantee you will be good.
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Just like route running is so critical for a WR vs. other aspects like pure straight line speed which maybe sexy but is overrated.
For an LT technique and footwork is absolutely critical. Some guys you can coach up a bit some you can't (Flowers). The mauling and power aspect and height aspect is a bit overrated. Better arm length vs. height is more important. This doesn't mean 6'2 but it means 6'4 and above is fine with 34 + inch arms and great technique and footwork. Wills is so so good already on so many levels . He isnt that rare freak but he has near elite traits across the board. When you put the whole package together their is almost no hole in his game. You want steady at that position first and foremost . If you can get more that's just the icing on the cake. Do you take a bit more risk for that potential absolute dominant player in Becton or do you go with the almost sure thing in Wills who will be a pro bowl level player but not necessarily one of those outright dominant guys that just make all types of rushers look silly.
I was thinking exactly about route running. There are just things that almost guarantee you will be good.
Will Beatty was kind of soft not that powerful but had pretty good technique and very good feet. Petitgout was somewhat similar. Before either got hurt both were pretty good LTs. Pass pro is the most important aspect for blindside.
Now Wills or Becton will give us that and much more in theory at a very critical position.
With that said, there are plenty of OTs that seem to make the grade to be high picks this year; good OTs are not typically not in this high supply in drafts; and Giants are probably in position to grab their favorite at #4.
If they don't, and then watch everyone on their OT list get taken before they pick again in the 2nd round, then they just made about as risky a draft decision as I have seen in quite a while.