2019 Team Offense(pts) -18th
2019 Team Defense(pts) - 30th
I am not saying its not a need but...
Hopefully better coaching and schemes with Garrett/Colombo
Fleming at RT is bettee then Remmers
2nd round Center should be better than Pio.
Jones in year 2.
Barkley at full go (Hopefully).
Slayton in year 2.
Full year with Tate.
full year with kaden Smith
Nick Gates year 2.
These are all positives, some small, some big. Honestly the only negative when comparing last year to this year is that it will be a new system, but that is the case regardless.
If there is a game changing defensive player when we pick, I think that is who we take.
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We had a similar debate before last season, I'd say it's clear I was right. The defense was awful. The defense has more drafted parts, many with promise, but the offense performed better on the field.
The defense was to a great part 1st and 2nd year players. Yes, they stunk. But the OL was completely AWOL. And the OL that we currently have is no better. At least they've spent resources on the D. That defensive player list I posted above is on our roster. The OL is still short 3 starters. It's not close.
Extremely young D and a complex defense that wasn't a great fit. Not a good combination . New peices in FA, new coordinator, youth 1 year older.
We need to protect the top investments Jones and Barkley. OT makes the grade except in comparison to Young. Unless Young inexplicably drops,it needs to be OT.
You assume Graham is a better DC and will be of the philosophy akin to Judge in scheming to the players strength.
They'll be a year older but that is a decent amount of early talent.
However, we chose not to over-pay for Golden and he remains, oddly, an UFA still! I want Golden back on a 3 year deal because he is our best pass rusher but I don't want to overpay for a team not yet ready to make that big leap with a big "player or two" via UFA'cy.
Giants need to draft BPA and get young guys who can play rather than those with "potential" and such.
Becton is intriguing but one thing scares me is that I read he has "air between his ears" and such. Just scares me to hear that kind of stuff.
However, we chose not to over-pay for Golden and he remains, oddly, an UFA still! I want Golden back on a 3 year deal because he is our best pass rusher but I don't want to overpay for a team not yet ready to make that big leap with a big "player or two" via UFA'cy.
Giants need to draft BPA and get young guys who can play rather than those with "potential" and such.
Becton is intriguing but one thing scares me is that I read he has "air between his ears" and such. Just scares me to hear that kind of stuff.
Get Golden done and potentially our biggest hole pending expected youth improvement maybe free Safety. Of course you can always add to pass rush.
Look at the big picture without bias leaking in.
All depends if you consider Simmons an impact player. Tough call between him & the OTs. I like Simmons but another year of Speedbump Solder is unacceptable.
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but you have to draft into the inherent strengths of the draft. In other words, if there's no impact defender at #4 who trips your trigger but an OT carries the grade, pick the OT. And, vice versa.
Look at the big picture without bias leaking in.
All depends if you consider Simmons an impact player. Tough call between him & the OTs. I like Simmons but another year of Speedbump Solder is unacceptable.
Not a fan of Simmons either. Between him and the OTs it has reduced my interest in the #4 pick.
Almost every pundit worth their salt has an OT no lower than 7 and that's counting the QBs that drop them lower. An OT is not a reach at 4. Flowers was most definitely a reach at 10.
Almost no one had him ranked that high and many saw his clunky uncoordinated pass sets despite his great size.
Squabbling over a few draft spots when there is not an obvious alternative choice that would be better for this team’s future. Yes of course a trade down is optimum but we don’t have the GM in place that makes that a likely path.
A BBI favorite term...handwringing for no reason. Select the top Tackle on the board and do it again in Rd 2 or Rd 3.
It’s the logical choice.
Below average is an understatement. 7 more pressures allowed than the next closest Tackle in the whole league.
Giants problems will take a while to fix.
Giants problems will take a while to fix.
Jack Stroud -- on the one hand, hard to disagree with your statement; on the other hand, a fair amount of hits on Daniel Jones was due to his holding onto the ball too long. Clearly, the Giants need better O-lineman, but it is also true that Daniel Jones needs to improve on the following negatives from NFL.com (written before last year's Draft):
"Incessant patting of the ball through progressions"
"Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often"
"Average release speed slowed by small windup"
"Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles"
Squabbling over a few draft spots when there is not an obvious alternative choice that would be better for this team’s future. Yes of course a trade down is optimum but we don’t have the GM in place that makes that a likely path.
A BBI favorite term...handwringing for no reason. Select the top Tackle on the board and do it again in Rd 2 or Rd 3.
It’s the logical choice.
The consensus to this point is there are approx four blue chips in this draft, and none are OTs. Even many here who are desperate for OT at #4 realize the lesser value in doing so. Too, the only prospect many feel is a LT in the NFL is Andrew Thomas, so there is even more risk involved with the position and potentially wasting the #4 overall pick on panic.
These are valid points. I suggest losing the snark.
I'm fine with picking a blue chip CB or DT if they're higher on the board than the OTs. The draft isn't solely or primarily about the 2020 season.
He settled for a 1yr prove-it deal in Buffalo. (terms aren't known, yet)
It can be easily projected that Burrow and Young are truly the only blue-chips and everybody else are red-chips.
It's tough to pass on the logic of going Tackle no matter what color-coding you want to follow.
OL or bust isn't valid.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
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I'll stick with my time-proven logic.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
I'm referring to posters who want OT at #4 no matter what, and there are plenty of them.
Jeremiah has Becton 6 overall. Huddle has Wirfs 7 overall.
The talent is there.
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I'll stick with my time-proven logic.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
It can be easily projected that Burrow and Young are truly the only blue-chips and everybody else are red-chips.
It's tough to pass on the logic of going Tackle no matter what color-coding you want to follow.
Young, Burrow in a tier by themselves.
If Young falls the equation changes.
But OT arguably being the biggest team impact because of what it does for Jones and Barkley is the play IF the players around that OT are in the same tier/row even if they may have a slightly higher grade.
This is likely the scenario that will unfold at 4 and even moreso in a slight tradedown.
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and how many hits did he take during the season? Yes, they need a quality LT at the very least.
Jack Stroud -- on the one hand, hard to disagree with your statement; on the other hand, a fair amount of hits on Daniel Jones was due to his holding onto the ball too long. Clearly, the Giants need better O-lineman, but it is also true that Daniel Jones needs to improve on the following negatives from NFL.com (written before last year's Draft):
"Incessant patting of the ball through progressions"
"Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often"
"Average release speed slowed by small windup"
"Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles"
Did Jones do those things last season, or was this just another door opening to interject your usual questions about DJ??
How did his release speed compare to other QB's, or are you just parroting the same mantra that DJ has a lot of problems?
Like Thomas a lot for this reason, but not at 4.
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In comment 14853894 JonC said:
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I'll stick with my time-proven logic.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
I'm referring to posters who want OT at #4 no matter what, and there are plenty of them.
Plenty of posters (some on this thread) have given numerous reasons why one or more of the OTs would be an excellent choice at #4. Reasons relative to the players themselves, the position value and the need as of now and the future.
Just because some fans feel there is enough support behind their own views, and it doesn't align to yours, doesn't mean it's OT or bust.
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In comment 14853996 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14853894 JonC said:
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I'll stick with my time-proven logic.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
I'm referring to posters who want OT at #4 no matter what, and there are plenty of them.
Plenty of posters (some on this thread) have given numerous reasons why one or more of the OTs would be an excellent choice at #4. Reasons relative to the players themselves, the position value and the need as of now and the future.
Just because some fans feel there is enough support behind their own views, and it doesn't align to yours, doesn't mean it's OT or bust.
I have pointed out numerous times OL or bust does not blanket all that support OL at #4. It's getting tiresome.
Thing often lost or missing from these discussions is that teams may rate a player's value differently than the draft experts (Exhibit A: Daniel Jones). Player evaluation scales vary from team to team. So, while the common wisdom may be that Simmons is definitely worth the 4 spot, Giants and/or other teams may have a diffeent value on him.
Personally, I cannot wait to see how rest of free agnecy shakes out.
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In comment 14853894 JonC said:
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I'll stick with my time-proven logic.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
For anyone who sees OL as the BPA, there is nothing to discuss. In that situation it's a no brainer. The question becomes meaningful when you are talking about taking an OLine who is a value in the 7, 8,9, or 10 range verses say the the 2nd best player in the draft behind Chase Young.
Definitely agree on Young. If he’s there he should be the pick.
After that all bets are off. No one can say the Giants passed on “BPA” for “need” if they go OT over one of the other players.
Thing often lost or missing from these discussions is that teams may rate a player's value differently than the draft experts (Exhibit A: Daniel Jones). Player evaluation scales vary from team to team. So, while the common wisdom may be that Simmons is definitely worth the 4 spot, Giants and/or other teams may have a diffeent value on him.
Personally, I cannot wait to see how rest of free agnecy shakes out.
There is no “common wisdom” on Simmons. He’s a huge gamble. No one knows where to play him and there were spots last year where he certainly didn’t look like a 4.3 guy. In the Championship game Burrows made him look like a 4.9 guy.
I have reservations about that athleticism translating into something special at the NFL level. He doesn’t play physical. He was also the beneficiary of playing for one of the best DC’s (and highest paid) in the country.
I want a guy at 4 that’s a plug and play cornerstone difference maker. Not a guy that comes with a bunch of caveats and “yea buts.”
Definitely agree on Young. If he’s there he should be the pick.
After that all bets are off. No one can say the Giants passed on “BPA” for “need” if they go OT over one of the other players.
yep to this
Valid points but no one is can’t miss at 4. All things being equal might as well gamble on OT.
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If NYG goes OT, I flat out hope you dudes are correct and I'm wrong. I wouldn't be pissed off if they valued Andrew Thomas as a left tackle and I do like Wirfs' potential. Becton is a project whose risk factor pushes down his value for me, and Wills ... well, we've gone over him enough.
Valid points but no one is can’t miss at 4. All things being equal might as well gamble on OT.
It's a valid and good point.
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I'll stick with my time-proven logic.
OL or bust isn't valid.
It’s not OL or bust. No one here can say Simmons or Okudah or Brown are definitively BPA over any of the OL prospects.
Why? Cause Okudah is a blue-chipper and as close to "can't miss" at CB as we've seen the last 5 or more years. Simmons and every OT has question marks regardless of grades.
Bradberry & Okudah start with Baker in the slot playing a lot of snaps makes for a strong secondary with Pepper & Love (whom I believe starts even if we sign a veteran FS UFA soon).
thanks