Is OT as big of a need as we think?

to learn and to grow into the position. He is the center of the NY Giants and he has to succeed for the Giants to succeed.

Not many. Giants won two SBs with Diehl at LT

Too many holes on defense to spend the number four pick on an OT unless you think the guy is a HOF talent

Jones can’t keep absorbing hits for his health sake and for his fumbling issues

and how many hits did he take during the season? Yes, they need a quality LT at the very least.

In comment 14853198 Vanzetti said:

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Not many. Giants won two SBs with Diehl at LT Too many holes on defense to spend the number four pick on an OT unless you think the guy is a HOF talent

You underestimate Diehl, he wasn't a HoFer but he provided quality play. He practiced against some of the best players in the NFL at that time and it showed during the season.

yes. At his best Solder is adequate, and we don’t currently have a right tackle who is a very good long term option.

You could argue it is our single biggest need on this team considering we have a young franchise QB.

but Titans had Lewan and Conklin at the tackle spots the past few years. It is why they’ve been able to run the ball and protect the QB, make playoff runs.

Have you watched Giants football the last 10 years?

Yes it is

No offense but you think overall yardage numbers tell us if we have a need at OT or not? Come on.

But for our future, for next hear and beyond... absolutely we need a OT, and we have needed them for a full decade now...

.

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade offensive tackle, I'm saying is it our first need?

In comment 14853210 ryanmkeane said:

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but Titans had Lewan and Conklin at the tackle spots the past few years. It is why they’ve been able to run the ball and protect the QB, make playoff runs.

If you want the Giants to be the Titans, then yeah spend two top picks on OT.

It's a bigger need than we think. (Unless you're Jerry Reese.)

Probably bigger. Huge in fact. We've invested massive resources in our young QB and RB. Our QB's were sacked, hit and harassed among the most in the NFL last season, Barkley got his yards ugly with little help from his blockers.

The O-line is a mess. A disaster right now.

You guys will be saying "WE NEED an OT NOW" in week 2 of next season! We haven't had a good OT here in a LONG TIME! It's time to stop procrastinating!!!!

In comment 14853221 BillT said:

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It's a bigger need than we think. (Unless you're Jerry Reese.)

This!!

Solder-Hernandez-Pulley-Zeitler-Fleming

We have DJ and Barkley behind them. Its like putting a 4 cylinder 200 hp engine in a Ferrari, we would be wasting our top 2 picks from the previous 2 drafts. If we could control the ball more, and score more points, our D wouldn't be on the field as much and wouldn't be put in negative field position as much.

In comment 14853209 ryanmkeane said:

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yes. At his best Solder is adequate, and we don’t currently have a right tackle who is a very good long term option. You could argue it is our single biggest need on this team considering we have a young franchise QB.

. This is a valid statement which goes back 5/6 yr . Reese tried to upgrade the position in the draft and FA but failed miserably. Ruined the end of ELI's career under the influence of Ross. Then they thought we had the answer with the terrible pick of Flowers. Now we have a new group here that want to draft for need to fill the spot. Tough position to fill may have to cluster draft later in the draft and hope we find one. Thet do not live up ti their hype like other positions. Never take on in the top ten of a draft IMO.

to say we need even more help on D, BUT DG spent much of his FA money on defense, and this draft is deep at OT. It is a need, so might as well grab one now.

Kevin Zeitler provided the steady play at guard the Giants expected when they traded for him, grading above 70.0 as both a pass blocker and a run blocker this year. The tackle duo of Nate Solder and Mike Remmers hasn’t provided that same steady performance, however. Solder’s 57 pressures allowed this season are seven more than any other player (in the entire NFL!), and the 97 combined pressures allowed for the duo is the most in the NFL.

Yes we need OT help and OT help bad. And its BOTH sides. Since we failed in FA to pick up anything more than a possible RT stopgap in Fleming (please lets not confuse him for a high level starter) We need to at absolute minimum seal up one side (Left side much more ideal) with a plug and play top lineman.

You likely aren't getting that below the top 25 and after the top 4 which will go top 12-15 it will drop quite a bit.

So it’s not an outrageous thought.

I tend to worry more about Center than I do Tackle, for some reason. The NFC East and some wreckers in the interior and our offense needs to be built around Barkley.

In comment 14853198 Vanzetti said:

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Not many. Giants won two SBs with Diehl at LT Too many holes on defense to spend the number four pick on an OT unless you think the guy is a HOF talent

There's quality and then there's competent. Giants have a big need at OT.

This probably is direction coming from the top.

In comment 14853259 Ben in Tampa said:

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So it’s not an outrageous thought. I tend to worry more about Center than I do Tackle, for some reason. The NFC East and some wreckers in the interior and our offense needs to be built around Barkley.

Gates has more a chance at OC then he does at Center. Center also cam be addressed rd 2 or rd 3. Ruiz or Cushenberry rd 2, Nick Harris , Hennesey rd 3.

Then get a C in the 2nd. Not saying this is the only way to go, just saying the O line could use the love. For real. 2nd year QB and third year 2nd overall pick RB, who could be the biggest playmaker in the league? Focus for once on the Oline. If the Giants could run the ball, that wears down defenses, thereby not leaving our defense on the field too long.
I could see any position being the first pick, aside from QB, or any position that doesnt have a player player anywhere near value for where the Giants pick. SLayton gonna be a solid #1 WR? I like the possibility, but I wouldnt put too many eggs in his basket.

Than at LT...should read

The defense was the main culprit last season.You can draft one of these tackles in the first round, and still end up losing 10 games next year.A top defensive player will have more of an impact.

Some people only want defense when it's convenient,meaning a lot of draft hype surrounding a player.Aaron Donald was one that I remember and agreed with.Most of the time though,it's offensive line or bust.

Let's control the line of scrimmage, excel at running the ball, and keep our shitty defense off the field for as long as possible. All that, and a better chance of our quarterback playing well and staying healthy.

Yes, yes, yes...

Good luck.

And Center is actually an even bigger need.

In the last two years they have invested first round picks in a QB and an RB. But all the attempts to fix the OL with a combination of veteran FAs and draftees have failed for Gettleman just like they failed for Reese. That said, DG has done better than Reese by drafting Hernandez in the 2nd, trading for Zeitler, and finding Gates, an OFA, who could be the 6th OL. But his attempts to really fix the problem at OT have all come up short, and they are actually WORSE off at C because he got rid of a competent center in Richburg. Maybe Richburg had to go, but that is the one player removal move that DG has made that I really question.

Piss poor coaching from first McAdoo's staff and then Shurmur's staff has also been a major issue here, and we have to hope that has finally been fixed by bringing in Colombo.

There is no sensible alternative. OT in the first, C in the second. This is a better than average year for both. Anything else is gross incompetence from the front office.

I love defense, and I know that the G-men's D needs a ton of help, but it has to wait this time.

Oh, and one note on Simmons - remember how so many were so hot for Floyd? He's been released early by the team that drafted him. I am of the opinion that Simmons is Floyd all over again.

Ignores the 3 (maybe 4) defensive starters we got in FA this year, the 2, 1st round defensive draft choices we got in last year's draft or the 3, 3rd round and one 4th round defensive players we got in the last two drafts or the former 1st round defensive pick we got in the OBJ trade. Folks seem to want to ignore that DG has spent more premium resources on defensive players than offensive ones.

In comment 14853220 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 14853210 ryanmkeane said: Quote: but Titans had Lewan and Conklin at the tackle spots the past few years. It is why they’ve been able to run the ball and protect the QB, make playoff runs. If you want the Giants to be the Titans, then yeah spend two top picks on OT.

I'm not sure if your comment was meant in derision. But the way the Giants have performed over the past couple of seasons, we would be fortunate to have a Titans season.

To the OP - Daniel started 12 games and absorbed 38 sacks for a loss of 295 yards and 18 fumbles. Yes, OT is as big of a need as we think.

Still want a trade down with lac or Carolina, maybe even Jax
Would take 1&2 from Jax if next yr #1 included
Would take 3 & 4 for chargers too
Grab at least 2 oline. Maybe 3

.

In comment 14853295 BillT said:

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Ignores the 3 (maybe 4) defensive starters we got in FA this year, the 2, 1st round defensive draft choices we got in last year's draft or the 3, 3rd round and one 4th round defensive players we got in the last two drafts or the former 1st round defensive pick we got in the OBJ trade. Folks seem to want to ignore that DG has spent more premium resources on defensive players than offensive ones.

+1. And underrate the importance of a better DC and system. If Graham is that that will be a huge difference in itself. Secondly a lot of youth maturing at the same time. That will also make a big difference.

Is the defense was worse. Hard to deny that if you watched them play. Teams with multiple needs should draft with BPA being a big factor.

In comment 14853306 Payasdaddy said:

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Still want a trade down with lac or Carolina, maybe even Jax Would take 1&2 from Jax if next yr #1 included Would take 3 & 4 for chargers too Grab at least 2 oline. Maybe 3

. Nice plan except we have not been able to Identify any talented players at OL positions for years. we have to hope that with the addition of Garrett and Judge we have people who can evaluate talent that goes with our scheme. It is long overdue.

of anything retrospective. It’s massive because Giants need to plan for now and future at Tackle because:

- Don’t have a starting Right Tackle on roster
- Betting on an aging, breaking down Solder to play better at LT is foolish
- Even if Solder makes it thru 2020, his cap savings thru a cut is more significant than the value he provides
- Fleming is a decent enough fill-in swing tackle but unlikely he is a developmental resource
- The two most important assets we have to support and protect are Jones and Saquon

And the above issues don’t get any better by delaying this decision. At least the defense has some young developing assets that deserve their day in the sun.

Not going OT and Center in this draft with those early picks is simply egregious and resembles gross negligence to bring some drama to the situation.

but you have to draft into the inherent strengths of the draft. In other words, if there's no impact defender at #4 who trips your trigger but an OT carries the grade, pick the OT. And, vice versa.

Look at the big picture without bias leaking in.

In comment 14853331 JonC said:

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but you have to draft into the inherent strengths of the draft. In other words, if there's no impact defender at #4 who trips your trigger but an OT carries the grade, pick the OT. And, vice versa. Look at the big picture without bias leaking in.

Is it? We have a bunch of young defenders like Lawrence, Carter, Ximines, Baker, Beal, Love to which we've added Williams, Martinez, Bradbury to go with young vets like Peppers and Tomlinson.

On offense we have Jones and Barkley. The next tier is Hernandez, Shepard, and Slayton with vets like Zeitler and Tate. The O is short 3 starting OLs a starting TE (not an Engram fan) and a #1 WR.

There better numbers and potential on the D. The O needs bodies to fill empty spots with no one on the roster to fill them.

In comment 14853329 LBH15 said:

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of anything retrospective. It’s massive because Giants need to plan for now and future at Tackle because: - Don’t have a starting Right Tackle on roster - Betting on an aging, breaking down Solder to play better at LT is foolish - Even if Solder makes it thru 2020, his cap savings thru a cut is more significant than the value he provides - Fleming is a decent enough fill-in swing tackle but unlikely he is a developmental resource - The two most important assets we have to support and protect are Jones and Saquon And the above issues don’t get any better by delaying this decision. At least the defense has some young developing assets that deserve their day in the sun. Not going OT and Center in this draft with those early picks is simply egregious and resembles gross negligence to bring some drama to the situation.

Totally agreed and there are 2 OTs (Wills/Becton) that are in the same top tier as anyone not named Young or Burrow. Take.the.Tackle.

In comment 14853351 BillT said:

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In comment 14853331 JonC said: Quote: but you have to draft into the inherent strengths of the draft. In other words, if there's no impact defender at #4 who trips your trigger but an OT carries the grade, pick the OT. And, vice versa. Look at the big picture without bias leaking in. Is it? We have a bunch of young defenders like Lawrence, Carter, Ximines, Baker, Beal, Love to which we've added Williams, Martinez, Bradbury to go with young vets like Peppers and Tomlinson. On offense we have Jones and Barkley. The next tier is Hernandez, Shepard, and Slayton with vets like Zeitler and Tate. The O is short 3 starting OLs a starting TE (not an Engram fan) and a #1 WR. There better numbers and potential on the D. The O needs bodies to fill empty spots with no one on the roster to fill them.

Maturing youth, infusion in FA and hopefully a much better DC. D might be in better shape than we think.

We don't know how much of the problem is the players and how much is the coaching. All we know is that we've been bad at running the ball and protecting the passer for a looooong time -- and our two franchise players are a young running back and a young quarterback.

At a minimum, though, I think we need the best center we can find.

In comment 14853359 MeadowlandsMike said:

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In comment 14853351 BillT said: Quote: In comment 14853331 JonC said: Quote: but you have to draft into the inherent strengths of the draft. In other words, if there's no impact defender at #4 who trips your trigger but an OT carries the grade, pick the OT. And, vice versa. Look at the big picture without bias leaking in. Is it? We have a bunch of young defenders like Lawrence, Carter, Ximines, Baker, Beal, Love to which we've added Williams, Martinez, Bradbury to go with young vets like Peppers and Tomlinson. On offense we have Jones and Barkley. The next tier is Hernandez, Shepard, and Slayton with vets like Zeitler and Tate. The O is short 3 starting OLs a starting TE (not an Engram fan) and a #1 WR. There better numbers and potential on the D. The O needs bodies to fill empty spots with no one on the roster to fill them. Maturing youth, infusion in FA and hopefully a much better DC. D might be in better shape than we think.

Yep. They clearly need a Edge Rusher and a Free Safety worth a damn but it’s not like there aren’t guys to play. At OT and Center there is nothing.

In comment 14853379 CT Charlie said:

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We don't know how much of the problem is the players and how much is the coaching. All we know is that we've been bad at running the ball and protecting the passer for a looooong time -- and our two franchise players are a young running back and a young quarterback. At a minimum, though, I think we need the best center we can find.

You've been watching guys like Solder, Halapio, Remmers, play OL and you don't know if it's the players? I'm no expert but...

We had a similar debate before last season, I'd say it's clear I was right. The defense was awful. The defense has more drafted parts, many with promise, but the offense performed better on the field.

but there's no alpha, no impact Edge, it's a collection of I hope so.

In parallel, the OL needs help, obviously. Let's not overrate what we are right now on defense.