2019 Team Offense(pts) -18th
2019 Team Defense(pts) - 30th
I am not saying its not a need but...
Hopefully better coaching and schemes with Garrett/Colombo
Fleming at RT is bettee then Remmers
2nd round Center should be better than Pio.
Jones in year 2.
Barkley at full go (Hopefully).
Slayton in year 2.
Full year with Tate.
full year with kaden Smith
Nick Gates year 2.
These are all positives, some small, some big. Honestly the only negative when comparing last year to this year is that it will be a new system, but that is the case regardless.
If there is a game changing defensive player when we pick, I think that is who we take.
If Offensive Line investment isn’t at the top of that list please fill me in as to what is?
Kevin Zeitler provided the steady play at guard the Giants expected when they traded for him, grading above 70.0 as both a pass blocker and a run blocker this year. The tackle duo of Nate Solder and Mike Remmers hasn’t provided that same steady performance, however. Solder’s 57 pressures allowed this season are seven more than any other player (in the entire NFL!), and the 97 combined pressures allowed for the duo is the most in the NFL.
Yes we need OT help and OT help bad. And its BOTH sides. Since we failed in FA to pick up anything more than a possible RT stopgap in Fleming (please lets not confuse him for a high level starter) We need to at absolute minimum seal up one side (Left side much more ideal) with a plug and play top lineman.
You likely aren't getting that below the top 25 and after the top 4 which will go top 12-15 it will drop quite a bit.
Keep posting this.
The biases for other choices should dissipate with this logic.
Fackrell as a bargain signing ain't cutting it.
With Golden and some of the youth hopefully improving we won't be praying we have to get a day 1 quality edge rush otherwise we are in big trouble (of course that would still be great even with Golden back).
At the same time, the defense needs more talent to rise from historically bad to competent, and then to solid, good, contender, etc. It too needs impact talent at key positions.
The players available at the top of round 2 like Cushenbury and Cleveland are not that far behind Ruiz, Wills and Becton. Can our scouts and GM decipher what the difference is in value to draft Wills, Becton or Wirfs at the top of round 1 compared to Cleveland, Niang, Jackson, Chushenbury and Biadasz in round 2?
Can a good OL be found outside of round 1? That is the Million dollar question. I do not see an Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden in this draft. In fact I see 4 OT prospects that there is NO consensus on. Are any worth a top 5 pick?
The defense was to a great part 1st and 2nd year players. Yes, they stunk. But the OL was completely AWOL. And the OL that we currently have is no better. At least they've spent resources on the D. That defensive player list I posted above is on our roster. The OL is still short 3 starters. It's not close.
At the same time, the defense needs more talent to rise from historically bad to competent, and then to solid, good, contender, etc. It too needs impact talent at key positions.
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We had a similar debate before last season, I'd say it's clear I was right. The defense was awful. The defense has more drafted parts, many with promise, but the offense performed better on the field.
The defense was to a great part 1st and 2nd year players. Yes, they stunk. But the OL was completely AWOL. And the OL that we currently have is no better. At least they've spent resources on the D. That defensive player list I posted above is on our roster. The OL is still short 3 starters. It's not close.
If you're planning to draft for need, you have a leg to stand on. I'm not. And, if NYG is not drafting for need you're gonna be sore.
It's not bias. It's need and positional value.
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could get their wish, given the OTs at the top, the WR talent is deep, and they should be able to find a C. If this is how their board stacks up, I'm good with it.
At the same time, the defense needs more talent to rise from historically bad to competent, and then to solid, good, contender, etc. It too needs impact talent at key positions.
Do you really see any of these OTs as best non-QB in draft behind Young, or more a function of going with a top 10 talent at position of great need? I see OT as the latter. Wills is the best to my eyes but @4 and quite possibly the 2nd non QB selected I wish he added a little more in run game.
I don't love any of the OTs at #4. If I did I'd be hoping to pick one. I'd agree it's the latter.
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Draft where the talent takes you, regardless of bias.
It's not bias. It's need and positional value.
Not for everyone beating the drum. Many want an OT no matter what.
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In comment 14853392 JonC said:
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If you're planning to draft for need, you have a leg to stand on. I'm not. And, if NYG is not drafting for need you're gonna be sore.
I' not sure what you mean Jon. Could you clarify. Thanks.
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In comment 14853398 JonC said:
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Draft where the talent takes you, regardless of bias.
It's not bias. It's need and positional value.
Not for everyone beating the drum. Many want an OT no matter what.
Well, I'b be among those unless Young drops to us. Otherwise, the OTs are in the conversation at #4 and need and positional value make those reasonable picks.
I'm not saying in any way the D is complete. But the OL is not just incomplete, it's virtually non existent. It has to be addressed with top level talent or watch Jones and Barkley struggle though another year.
You would know better than I. Just don't know if I can watch the 8th or 9Th year in a row with no hope that the OL can even be competent much less a asset.b
I don’t disagree that Brown is a stud but you can’t play 7 DTs. Lol. I lie Simmons but get the concerns. Praying the Chargers or Jax trade up as think the Miami trades up. As in if layncash in it. Ross is getting up there and wants to win. So the only trade down and to be those two. Going lower is too dangerous. If they hadn’t made the stupid Willams trade o don’t think people would mind Brown
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We had a similar debate before last season, I'd say it's clear I was right. The defense was awful. The defense has more drafted parts, many with promise, but the offense performed better on the field.
The defense was to a great part 1st and 2nd year players. Yes, they stunk. But the OL was completely AWOL. And the OL that we currently have is no better. At least they've spent resources on the D. That defensive player list I posted above is on our roster. The OL is still short 3 starters. It's not close.
Extremely young D and a complex defense that wasn't a great fit. Not a good combination . New peices in FA, new coordinator, youth 1 year older.
We need to protect the top investments Jones and Barkley. OT makes the grade except in comparison to Young. Unless Young inexplicably drops,it needs to be OT.
You assume Graham is a better DC and will be of the philosophy akin to Judge in scheming to the players strength.
They'll be a year older but that is a decent amount of early talent.
However, we chose not to over-pay for Golden and he remains, oddly, an UFA still! I want Golden back on a 3 year deal because he is our best pass rusher but I don't want to overpay for a team not yet ready to make that big leap with a big "player or two" via UFA'cy.
Giants need to draft BPA and get young guys who can play rather than those with "potential" and such.
Becton is intriguing but one thing scares me is that I read he has "air between his ears" and such. Just scares me to hear that kind of stuff.
However, we chose not to over-pay for Golden and he remains, oddly, an UFA still! I want Golden back on a 3 year deal because he is our best pass rusher but I don't want to overpay for a team not yet ready to make that big leap with a big "player or two" via UFA'cy.
Giants need to draft BPA and get young guys who can play rather than those with "potential" and such.
Becton is intriguing but one thing scares me is that I read he has "air between his ears" and such. Just scares me to hear that kind of stuff.
Get Golden done and potentially our biggest hole pending expected youth improvement maybe free Safety. Of course you can always add to pass rush.
Look at the big picture without bias leaking in.
All depends if you consider Simmons an impact player. Tough call between him & the OTs. I like Simmons but another year of Speedbump Solder is unacceptable.
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but you have to draft into the inherent strengths of the draft. In other words, if there's no impact defender at #4 who trips your trigger but an OT carries the grade, pick the OT. And, vice versa.
Look at the big picture without bias leaking in.
All depends if you consider Simmons an impact player. Tough call between him & the OTs. I like Simmons but another year of Speedbump Solder is unacceptable.
Not a fan of Simmons either. Between him and the OTs it has reduced my interest in the #4 pick.
Almost every pundit worth their salt has an OT no lower than 7 and that's counting the QBs that drop them lower. An OT is not a reach at 4. Flowers was most definitely a reach at 10.
Almost no one had him ranked that high and many saw his clunky uncoordinated pass sets despite his great size.
Squabbling over a few draft spots when there is not an obvious alternative choice that would be better for this team’s future. Yes of course a trade down is optimum but we don’t have the GM in place that makes that a likely path.
A BBI favorite term...handwringing for no reason. Select the top Tackle on the board and do it again in Rd 2 or Rd 3.
It’s the logical choice.
Below average is an understatement. 7 more pressures allowed than the next closest Tackle in the whole league.
Giants problems will take a while to fix.
Giants problems will take a while to fix.
Jack Stroud -- on the one hand, hard to disagree with your statement; on the other hand, a fair amount of hits on Daniel Jones was due to his holding onto the ball too long. Clearly, the Giants need better O-lineman, but it is also true that Daniel Jones needs to improve on the following negatives from NFL.com (written before last year's Draft):
"Incessant patting of the ball through progressions"
"Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often"
"Average release speed slowed by small windup"
"Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles"
Squabbling over a few draft spots when there is not an obvious alternative choice that would be better for this team’s future. Yes of course a trade down is optimum but we don’t have the GM in place that makes that a likely path.
A BBI favorite term...handwringing for no reason. Select the top Tackle on the board and do it again in Rd 2 or Rd 3.
It’s the logical choice.
The consensus to this point is there are approx four blue chips in this draft, and none are OTs. Even many here who are desperate for OT at #4 realize the lesser value in doing so. Too, the only prospect many feel is a LT in the NFL is Andrew Thomas, so there is even more risk involved with the position and potentially wasting the #4 overall pick on panic.
These are valid points. I suggest losing the snark.
I'm fine with picking a blue chip CB or DT if they're higher on the board than the OTs. The draft isn't solely or primarily about the 2020 season.
He settled for a 1yr prove-it deal in Buffalo. (terms aren't known, yet)