He could play the same position but the problem is he didn’t. So it’s a very difficult comparison, escpecially when you see some of the traits KUECHLY had that made him elite.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
totally diff players Kuechly prob had the best instincts of any LB
in the last 10-20 years. He played day 1 at BC and just put up a ridiculous amount of tackles per year right away from the day he stepped in (like 200). Athletically he did pretty well at the combine but they are totally different players. Kuechly was a pure ILB. Simmons is a swiss army knife.
Combine numbers are pretty close. Kuechly slightly heavier, Simmons a little faster. Asking anybody to match Kuechly's success in the NFL is a lot, but at least Simmons has the measurables, so it's a start.
in the last 10-20 years. He played day 1 at BC and just put up a ridiculous amount of tackles per year right away from the day he stepped in (like 200). Athletically he did pretty well at the combine but they are totally different players. Kuechly was a pure ILB. Simmons is a swiss army knife.
He could play the same position but the problem is he didn’t. So it’s a very difficult comparison, escpecially when you see some of the traits KUECHLY had that made him elite.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
I'm not sure you are saying awareness is a negative for Simmons or just that it's not quite up to Kuechly's level, which I'm not quite sure how you split those hairs, but Simmons does have good awareness and instincts. I think he has a high floor...which to me is good NFL starter.
He could play the same position but the problem is he didn’t. So it’s a very difficult comparison, escpecially when you see some of the traits KUECHLY had that made him elite.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
I'm not sure you are saying awareness is a negative for Simmons or just that it's not quite up to Kuechly's level, which I'm not quite sure how you split those hairs, but Simmons does have good awareness and instincts. I think he has a high floor...which to me is good NFL starter.
His ceiling is tremendous.
Instincts are not something that gets carried over from position to position. Playing MLB is completely different than playing OLB or S.
to me Urlacher is more like a slowish-Kuechly, good nose for the ball, picks his way in traffic, good balance, hard to knock off his pins, and sticks his body into the RB; Kuechly had more range and was quicker. I don't either of these two as Simmons comps in terms of style and game for which they are suited. The first two are purely ILB guys, as said above, Simmons is more suited to space, LB blitz from the outside, or in the middle off a double team of a DT or NT. My take, anyway
to me Urlacher is more like a slowish-Kuechly, good nose for the ball, picks his way in traffic, good balance, hard to knock off his pins, and sticks his body into the RB; Kuechly had more range and was quicker. I don't either of these two as Simmons comps in terms of style and game for which they are suited. The first two are purely ILB guys, as said above, Simmons is more suited to space, LB blitz from the outside, or in the middle off a double team of a DT or NT. My take, anyway
I don't think you remember who Urlacher was. Urlacher was the reason that the Tampa 2 was so successful. He'd be covering both the middle underneath zone and the deep middle zone. His game was based off speed.
to me Urlacher is more like a slowish-Kuechly, good nose for the ball, picks his way in traffic, good balance, hard to knock off his pins, and sticks his body into the RB; Kuechly had more range and was quicker. I don't either of these two as Simmons comps in terms of style and game for which they are suited. The first two are purely ILB guys, as said above, Simmons is more suited to space, LB blitz from the outside, or in the middle off a double team of a DT or NT. My take, anyway
I don't think you remember who Urlacher was. Urlacher was the reason that the Tampa 2 was so successful. He'd be covering both the middle underneath zone and the deep middle zone. His game was based off speed.
You are also missing the point with us bringing up Urlacher. Urlacher coming out as a prospect was different than Urlacher the NFL player. Urlacher was used all over the defense in college similar to Simmons.
Simmons might be the answer to the lack of TE coverage that has absolutely killed us? Just think. All those key first downs picked up against us game after game after game. Regardless of his shortcomings(perceived or real), I’d love this guy here.
RE: Can you imagine, for the first time in decades
Simmons might be the answer to the lack of TE coverage that has absolutely killed us? Just think. All those key first downs picked up against us game after game after game. Regardless of his shortcomings(perceived or real), I’d love this guy here.
Key first downs picked up by opposing TEs, that is
RE: Can you imagine, for the first time in decades
Simmons might be the answer to the lack of TE coverage that has absolutely killed us? Just think. All those key first downs picked up against us game after game after game. Regardless of his shortcomings(perceived or real), I’d love this guy here.
He could play the same position but the problem is he didn’t. So it’s a very difficult comparison, escpecially when you see some of the traits KUECHLY had that made him elite.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
I'm not sure you are saying awareness is a negative for Simmons or just that it's not quite up to Kuechly's level, which I'm not quite sure how you split those hairs, but Simmons does have good awareness and instincts. I think he has a high floor...which to me is good NFL starter.
His ceiling is tremendous.
Instincts are not something that gets carried over from position to position. Playing MLB is completely different than playing OLB or S.
I'm talking as a linebacker which is, IMO, his best position and what he should play at the next level. I like him as an OLB. He could play weakside LB in a 4-3 but I still kind of like him as an OLB edge where he is rushing the passer, because I think he can bend enough and he does a good job getting around tackles when he is asked. He'll need some work on hand techniques and how to set guys up, getting some additional pass rushing moves in his arsenal, but I think he can be really good there, where you can mix up what he does with play-calling, so a good percentage his still dropping with coverage responsibility or picking up the RB. You can also have him next to Blake Martinez at ILB and I think he'd be really really good there, or you can do both. But he diagnoses plays pretty well.
he's more there to cover and smother TEs and X WRs man to man.
Julian Peterson is the best comp I've come up with and I think it holds. There was a game with the 49ers had injuries and they had to split him out to play CB and he did ok. Per his player page there was a year where he was considered a S in the NFL. And similar to Simmons, he wasn't a huge total tackle player, he did a little bit of everything (sacks, FF, PD, INTs, etc).
Both are freak athlete OLB's and didn't enter the NFL as pure edge rushers (though Peterson became a 10 sack guy later in his career). I can't find his official combine #'s but I'm pretty sure he was a sub 4.5 guy. Julian Peterson - ( New Window )
And it’s from Walter football, who I can’t stand, is lavonte David
David is closer to a Kuechly type IMO. He was not a super athlete and he doesn't have prototype size either - he has exceptional instincts. He was another 150+ tackle per year machine.
And it’s from Walter football, who I can’t stand, is lavonte David
David is closer to a Kuechly type IMO. He was not a super athlete and he doesn't have prototype size either - he has exceptional instincts. He was another 150+ tackle per year machine.
Yeah, David was a monster for Nebraska, should of been a first rounder. Not the best comp because he played a lot of traditional olb at the college level.
It’s not the athleticism that worries fans, it’s the LB instincts that is much harder to project
Just because Simmons is straight line fast doesn't mean he will
Most back end defenders in the NFL aren't that tall. Height is, as a general rule, not an advantage for agility and the ability to mirror.
Simmons refused to do the 3-cone and shuttle drills at combine and made clear he wasn't going to do them at pro day either.
Why do you think that is?
Lance Zierlein's nfl.com profile of Simmons lists as a weakness: "Leggy short-area footwork in change of direction."
Not a quality of an elite cover guy.
The reason it's hard to find satisfying comparables for Simmons is that athletes of his abilities and measureables almost always play offense in the NFL.
And that's because offensive players don't have to mirror and don't have to tackle.
Simmons has a lot to learn, no doubt, but we have missed, and been waiting for a MLB like Kuechly for a long time. We will see if Patrick Graham will be able to develop him, so we get the value for our defense, if we draft him.
As far as all pro linebackers from the past 5-10 years, Simmons is far more in the Wagner mold than Keuchly.
Also, shyster I strongly disagree with that point. Simmons has great instincts in coverage and his ability has far more to it than just straight line speed.
questioning Simmon cover ability is over thinking it, to me
He’s already shown elite coverage talent at the college level, shutting down TE’s, RB’s and slots. Not to mention the big time plays he’s made in the deep thirds and deep half coverage as a safety.
In man coverage he can get routed up at times, but that has more to do with his leverage, and not getting hands on players. Even then, his length and recovery speed is so ridiculous that it takes well timed, accurate throws to beat his man coverage. Burrow saw this on film and tried to exploit it and was largely unsuccessful. He stopped targeting Simmons early and found immediate success.
RE: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Bobby Wagner.
As far as all pro linebackers from the past 5-10 years, Simmons is far more in the Wagner mold than Keuchly.
Also, shyster I strongly disagree with that point. Simmons has great instincts in coverage and his ability has far more to it than just straight line speed.
Bobby Wagner was 6-0 242 at combine.
The issue with Simmons is that he is four inches taller at less weight. That's an issue for both leverage in contact and mirroring in coverage.
And as far as coverage ability, maybe he will carry over the success to the next level. But college and NFL are not the same and the change-of-direction/agility drills are what I want to see from a guy of his build. His refusal to participate doesn't give me a good feeling if I'm spending the number four pick.
There's a 3 pound difference between the two at the combine.
Change of direction and agility are evident on the tape. That feels like nitpicking to me. Derwin James didn't do any of those drills coming out either. The tape speaks for itself though. see this clip and the thread. Link - ( New Window )
again i think it's tough to compare Simmons to any of these guys who are traditional MLB's with exceptional instincts just because Simmons was put in so many different roles. And most of them were not traditional to an off ball LB - slot, deep safety, edge, etc.
He is more Derwin James / Kam Chancellor / Shaq Thompson - a big freakish athlete who can be deployed as a chess piece and make plays all over the field, but probably isn't best deployed taking on interior OL head on.
There really aren't many comparisons to draw between Luke and Simmons
Completely different body types. Completely different playstyles and core skills.
As many have noted on BBI and professionals that have covered the Draft for a long time there really isn't a good comp for Simmons. He possesses so many skills at a plus level it's a rarity. His size/speed ratio and length are just ridiculous and he has legit ballskills. His area of concern is he isn't a stack and shed LB but he does tackle with power and create turnovers in multiple ways. He does have a feel for pass rush and his first step burst/acceleration when he sees a gap in protection makes it very difficult for blockers to pick him up when he comes.
He's just a different cat.
I'll add I wish we didn't need an OT because I'd draft him...
but we do and it's a very strong group. So when the name is called and it's one of Wills/Thomas/Becton/Wirfs I'll still be a very satisfied Giants fan.
I’ve seen videos of Derwin bench pressing 405 as a sophomore at FSU, he is one of the most ridiculous athletes in NFL, but just comparing the college film, Simmons is more fluid and rangy, James more agile and heavy handed.
Keuchly was definitley a real LB. Noone seems really sure what Simmons
I think Simmons will wreak havoc when rising the QB. I think he is a very good tackler so will eat up RB’s. He can cover any TE. Good on picking up backs coming out. He won’t be bad at all in covering WR’s . I watched him closing on QB’s the only guy I’ve seen better is our very own LT. He has the frame to add muscle.
I want him on my defense.
Best NFL comps to Simmons are Cory Littleton and Fred Warner. Neither come close to matching his athleticism but they're tall, lightly built, play super fast, get good depth on their pass sets and have the speed to lock down backs and tight ends. The knocks coming out of college and Darius Leonard could be lumped in there too - Lack of play strength, too slightly built to shed NFL level offensive linemen, don't show the downhill aggression necessary for a true every down linebacker. Littleton didn't even have a natural position in college and went undrafted. Warner was viewed as a safety/linebacker hybrid. Now they're all entrenched as elite tier modern NFL linebackers. Simmons is like the turbocharged uber-athlete version of these guys. He could be better than all of them.
The discussion about Simmons and his proper position reminds me of all of the conversations at to where to play Brad Van Pelt when he was drafted by the Giants. A great safety in college but ended up being an extremely good outside linebacker. Could have been a very good tight end.
He’d be great on this D. He seems to me a lot like Jessie Armstead, another great Giant LBer. I just think how Simmons could take away TEs, RBs in the passing game, and capable of chasing down scrambling QBs. Even if he can’t sack the QB, he’d be a difference maker on this D.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
year 2 (13 gms) - 188 tackles (10.5 tfl / 3 ints)
year 3 (12 gms) - 191 tackles (12 tfl / 3 ints)
100+ solo tackles in each of his last 2 seasons too. Guy was a machine.
Kuechly was a prototype LB coming into the NFL
This.
Kuechly was a prototype LB coming into the NFL
Possibly a Brian Urlacher since he was more of a safety. I forgot the name of the position he played in college.
Quote:
want to compare Simmons to somebody, it should be a tweener from college. A Thomas Davis type.
Kuechly was a prototype LB coming into the NFL
Possibly a Brian Urlacher since he was more of a safety. I forgot the name of the position he played in college.
Lobo back.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
I'm not sure you are saying awareness is a negative for Simmons or just that it's not quite up to Kuechly's level, which I'm not quite sure how you split those hairs, but Simmons does have good awareness and instincts. I think he has a high floor...which to me is good NFL starter.
His ceiling is tremendous.
Quote:
He could play the same position but the problem is he didn’t. So it’s a very difficult comparison, escpecially when you see some of the traits KUECHLY had that made him elite.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
I'm not sure you are saying awareness is a negative for Simmons or just that it's not quite up to Kuechly's level, which I'm not quite sure how you split those hairs, but Simmons does have good awareness and instincts. I think he has a high floor...which to me is good NFL starter.
His ceiling is tremendous.
Instincts are not something that gets carried over from position to position. Playing MLB is completely different than playing OLB or S.
I don't think you remember who Urlacher was. Urlacher was the reason that the Tampa 2 was so successful. He'd be covering both the middle underneath zone and the deep middle zone. His game was based off speed.
Quote:
to me Urlacher is more like a slowish-Kuechly, good nose for the ball, picks his way in traffic, good balance, hard to knock off his pins, and sticks his body into the RB; Kuechly had more range and was quicker. I don't either of these two as Simmons comps in terms of style and game for which they are suited. The first two are purely ILB guys, as said above, Simmons is more suited to space, LB blitz from the outside, or in the middle off a double team of a DT or NT. My take, anyway
I don't think you remember who Urlacher was. Urlacher was the reason that the Tampa 2 was so successful. He'd be covering both the middle underneath zone and the deep middle zone. His game was based off speed.
You are also missing the point with us bringing up Urlacher. Urlacher coming out as a prospect was different than Urlacher the NFL player. Urlacher was used all over the defense in college similar to Simmons.
Key first downs picked up by opposing TEs, that is
But who stops the backs out of the backfield? 🤣
Quote:
In comment 14854162 aGiantGuy said:
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He could play the same position but the problem is he didn’t. So it’s a very difficult comparison, escpecially when you see some of the traits KUECHLY had that made him elite.
Good block shedding, elite movement through traffic, no false steps, always had his shoulders square to the line, elite sideline to sideline pursuit. Boston College put him in a traditional 3-4. I don’t think Simmons has the same power or awareness at the LB position. Not to say he can’t develop that, but it’s definitely a projection.
I'm not sure you are saying awareness is a negative for Simmons or just that it's not quite up to Kuechly's level, which I'm not quite sure how you split those hairs, but Simmons does have good awareness and instincts. I think he has a high floor...which to me is good NFL starter.
His ceiling is tremendous.
Instincts are not something that gets carried over from position to position. Playing MLB is completely different than playing OLB or S.
I'm talking as a linebacker which is, IMO, his best position and what he should play at the next level. I like him as an OLB. He could play weakside LB in a 4-3 but I still kind of like him as an OLB edge where he is rushing the passer, because I think he can bend enough and he does a good job getting around tackles when he is asked. He'll need some work on hand techniques and how to set guys up, getting some additional pass rushing moves in his arsenal, but I think he can be really good there, where you can mix up what he does with play-calling, so a good percentage his still dropping with coverage responsibility or picking up the RB. You can also have him next to Blake Martinez at ILB and I think he'd be really really good there, or you can do both. But he diagnoses plays pretty well.
Julian Peterson is the best comp I've come up with and I think it holds. There was a game with the 49ers had injuries and they had to split him out to play CB and he did ok. Per his player page there was a year where he was considered a S in the NFL. And similar to Simmons, he wasn't a huge total tackle player, he did a little bit of everything (sacks, FF, PD, INTs, etc).
Both are freak athlete OLB's and didn't enter the NFL as pure edge rushers (though Peterson became a 10 sack guy later in his career). I can't find his official combine #'s but I'm pretty sure he was a sub 4.5 guy.
Julian Peterson - ( New Window )
David is closer to a Kuechly type IMO. He was not a super athlete and he doesn't have prototype size either - he has exceptional instincts. He was another 150+ tackle per year machine.
Quote:
And it’s from Walter football, who I can’t stand, is lavonte David
David is closer to a Kuechly type IMO. He was not a super athlete and he doesn't have prototype size either - he has exceptional instincts. He was another 150+ tackle per year machine.
Yeah, David was a monster for Nebraska, should of been a first rounder. Not the best comp because he played a lot of traditional olb at the college level.
It’s not the athleticism that worries fans, it’s the LB instincts that is much harder to project
Most back end defenders in the NFL aren't that tall. Height is, as a general rule, not an advantage for agility and the ability to mirror.
Simmons refused to do the 3-cone and shuttle drills at combine and made clear he wasn't going to do them at pro day either.
Why do you think that is?
Lance Zierlein's nfl.com profile of Simmons lists as a weakness: "Leggy short-area footwork in change of direction."
Not a quality of an elite cover guy.
The reason it's hard to find satisfying comparables for Simmons is that athletes of his abilities and measureables almost always play offense in the NFL.
And that's because offensive players don't have to mirror and don't have to tackle.
Quote:
want to compare Simmons to somebody, it should be a tweener from college. A Thomas Davis type.
Kuechly was a prototype LB coming into the NFL
Possibly a Brian Urlacher since he was more of a safety. I forgot the name of the position he played in college.
Also, Urlacher was built more like the typical MLB leading up to the draft. If memory serves and I posted it, he was around 250.
Also, shyster I strongly disagree with that point. Simmons has great instincts in coverage and his ability has far more to it than just straight line speed.
In man coverage he can get routed up at times, but that has more to do with his leverage, and not getting hands on players. Even then, his length and recovery speed is so ridiculous that it takes well timed, accurate throws to beat his man coverage. Burrow saw this on film and tried to exploit it and was largely unsuccessful. He stopped targeting Simmons early and found immediate success.
Also, shyster I strongly disagree with that point. Simmons has great instincts in coverage and his ability has far more to it than just straight line speed.
Bobby Wagner was 6-0 242 at combine.
The issue with Simmons is that he is four inches taller at less weight. That's an issue for both leverage in contact and mirroring in coverage.
And as far as coverage ability, maybe he will carry over the success to the next level. But college and NFL are not the same and the change-of-direction/agility drills are what I want to see from a guy of his build. His refusal to participate doesn't give me a good feeling if I'm spending the number four pick.
Link - ( New Window )
He is more Derwin James / Kam Chancellor / Shaq Thompson - a big freakish athlete who can be deployed as a chess piece and make plays all over the field, but probably isn't best deployed taking on interior OL head on.
As many have noted on BBI and professionals that have covered the Draft for a long time there really isn't a good comp for Simmons. He possesses so many skills at a plus level it's a rarity. His size/speed ratio and length are just ridiculous and he has legit ballskills. His area of concern is he isn't a stack and shed LB but he does tackle with power and create turnovers in multiple ways. He does have a feel for pass rush and his first step burst/acceleration when he sees a gap in protection makes it very difficult for blockers to pick him up when he comes.
He's just a different cat.
I want him on my defense.