Glazer: Gettleman Has One Year to Turn Around the Giants

while trying to remain competitive. He as tied to Eli, perhaps, because the team history/ownership persuaded him to be tied to Eli?
I don't think Eli was problem #1 though but rather it was the complete lack on talent on the team, especially the OL and pass rush. We just didn't have the horses to win consistently or match up against better teams.
The Giants need to have another solid draft like we seem to have had last year. Our UFA class seems more "logical" on paper than the previous years with no "past their prime" signings.
If we draft well with rookies who contribute and the second and third year guys really step up we'll be on our way in the rebuild. I'm thinking ".500" team this year IF we help the OL.

Par for the course for this shitshow of a franchise.

In comment 14854962 Jeever said:

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Let's get rid of DG. Let's trade DJ? Let's fire Judge if he doesn't win 12 games next year. Let's face facts. This team is not very talented and the problem has been festering for years thanks to our previous GM. How about we let DG work this draft to add young talent to our team. Let's give Judge 2 or 3 years to get things going. Let's fix our OL first so we don't waste another year of Barkley (RBs have a limited shelf life). If we can run the ball it helps the defense. If it's 3 and out I don't care how many all pros you add to the defense they will be worn down come the 4th qtr. If this team can win 6 games it's a start. If they win 8 games I'd consider it a successful season. Next year we concentrate on the defense and sprinkle in a few picks on offense. Year 3 start picking and choosing.

Nobody is calling for trading Jones and firing Judge if next year is what many think it will be. Dave is another story. If after this year, the team wins 5, 4, and 4-6 games in his 3 years, why should he get a 4th year?

I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch.

We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him.

He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not.

And he really just freed up cap with the Bradberry and Martinez deals... maybe he really will bring in Clowney... then maybe draft a quality OT, OC and FS.

& Try to win the division... That will buy DG another year or two.

firing him a year after letting him select the coach, I mean, that's what the worst team in football would do.

In comment 14854985 LBH15 said:

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I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch. We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him. He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not.

I don't make those points to absolve Gettleman or defend how the Giants have managed the last 3 years. There have been major doses of outright stupidity.

My preference would be a GM who near unilaterally made football decisions, or a head coach with major oversight of personnel and a GM as the hiring manager.

I think the Giants suffer from Mara's inability to stay out of it when it comes to coaches and players he likes or dislikes, his fondness for the past, his desire for continuity, and his emotional ties to certain characters.

a team is likely to move in another direction. turnaround is a pretty vague term but I think the usage here is correct. This franchise needs to start heading in the right direction where it counts - results on the field. A lot of that is in the hands of the coaches now, but regardless of how much the final decision rested with Mara, Gettleman has twice been centrally involved in that process.

If things don't turn around this year Dave should move on and they should bring in a fresh voice who fits with what Judge is trying to do.

In comment 14854985 LBH15 said:

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I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch. We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him. He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not.

Being young or old is irrelevant. If you think his decisions have solely been his choice, then so be it, not really worth arguing. Others (myself included) don't think this has been a clean decision making process for our GM. He's had to deal with a meddling owner and trying to move on from the most beloved player in franchise history (under the approval of the meddling owner).

His biggest failure was not fixing the OL - it hasn't happened yet and if it doesn't this year he needs to go.

DG held on by a thread in January, and his relationship with Mara helped him stay on. The problem could be is this another Mara half measure management decision. I think DG is not the right GM for the longer term vision. When he goes, will Judge be looking good as the HC and will the new GM be ok keeping him on, and so forth.

I hear you, but I feel like this happens a lot lately and teams have to just get with the times - ie bringing a GM and coach in at the same time doesn't mean its any better.

I don't want a GM that can't work with Judge (or whoever our HC is). This seems like an outdated model to me, that both have to go or be hired together.

In comment 14855027 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 14854985 LBH15 said: Quote: I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch. We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him. He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not. Being young or old is irrelevant. If you think his decisions have solely been his choice, then so be it, not really worth arguing. Others (myself included) don't think this has been a clean decision making process for our GM. He's had to deal with a meddling owner and trying to move on from the most beloved player in franchise history (under the approval of the meddling owner). His biggest failure was not fixing the OL - it hasn't happened yet and if it doesn't this year he needs to go.

Not young was only to bring in the sense that experience and operating in a football front office was not knew to him.

And again, these continued beliefs that he was hamstrung by a meddling owner to me are disingenuous. Does he act like a guy who isn’t his own man or one that wouldn’t push back on a bad decision? Not suggesting they still might not go forward with it but he sure as hell acts like a guy who has his own convictions. Do you think someone else drummed up the LW deal and sold it to DG?

Three years and significant resources is more than fair to expect he could get us out of the basement. Some folks have some serious low expectations. If they don't improve this year, damn right he better be gone.

you can insert Reese, Coughlin, anyone running a team across sports in that category. Never did never will.

I'm sure he did want Leonard Williams. I'm not absolving him of his missings, I'm just not obsessing over them in threads (I don't see the point). He's misfired for sure, specifically on the OL. We will see what happens with Williams - the trade looks strange right now but I'm going to wait on the numbers and see if it allows us to be more flexible in the draft (not taking another 2nd round DT) and of course, how he actually plays in 2020.

But others don’t have to share that view. The point is this is a giant blog site and this thread is specific to sharing opinions on this topic.

based on your posting you want to blame it all on DG - i'm not willing to do that. You can hammer away on every DG thread if you'd like, I'm not stopping you. Sure its a blog site, but there's such a thing as overkill and redundancy.

exaggeration.

In comment 14855040 JonC said:

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DG held on by a thread in January, and his relationship with Mara helped him stay on. The problem could be is this another Mara half measure management decision.

with every passing year, it sure seems like we have more and more evidence that Mara is a sub par owner.

you have a good shot at finding out.

I'm surprised you think the next GM of the Giants - whenever that happens - will have any say in whether the HC stays or goes - if it's still Judge or not.

Unless the Mara brothers are going somewhere the next GM of the Giants will have as much input about the HC as Gettleman did about Judge. Little to none.

As far as the OP goes Gettleman is on borrowed time if 2020 is another losing season. If it's another top 10 draft pick season he is 100% gone.

He was saying that in the current environment, with the draft coming on 3 weeks out this Thursday, the better GM’s have a distinct advantage. He then said the prospect of how Dave handles the draft this year terrifies him, which is telling as his confidence in DG was already low.

It’s like everyone knows DG kinda sucks at his job except the DGFC here and John Mara.

is that DG will panick and squander more resources trying to win quickly.

of the idiots that call a group the Dave Gettleman Fan Club provide examples of posts/threads proactively stating that Gettleman is a top flight GM and that he's doing a great job here?

Is there evidence of threads being created that talk glowingly about the moves he's made?

If not, it is a strawman argument, needlessly referenced for the sole reason of trying to label a non-existent group of posters.

Is it that hard to acknowledge that some of you are so over the top in your criticism that there are posts that defend him from those unwarranted takes?

is doing a great job. The empty excuses as to why he’s not are enlightening enough.

In comment 14854974 The_Boss said:

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In comment 14854962 Jeever said: Quote: Let's get rid of DG. Let's trade DJ? Let's fire Judge if he doesn't win 12 games next year. Let's face facts. This team is not very talented and the problem has been festering for years thanks to our previous GM. How about we let DG work this draft to add young talent to our team. Let's give Judge 2 or 3 years to get things going. Let's fix our OL first so we don't waste another year of Barkley (RBs have a limited shelf life). If we can run the ball it helps the defense. If it's 3 and out I don't care how many all pros you add to the defense they will be worn down come the 4th qtr. If this team can win 6 games it's a start. If they win 8 games I'd consider it a successful season. Next year we concentrate on the defense and sprinkle in a few picks on offense. Year 3 start picking and choosing. Nobody is calling for trading Jones and firing Judge if next year is what many think it will be. Dave is another story. If after this year, the team wins 5, 4, and 4-6 games in his 3 years, why should he get a 4th year?

They will though, cause most of our BBI fans are short sighted and suck.

No we dont need to fire him because then we destroy any alliance Judge has with the front office.

Gettleman has had 2 seasons so far...2!

what the fuck

In comment 14854652 mittenedman said:

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it doesn't look good. Signing a bunch of fringe starters to a bad football team is not going to produce a massive turnaround.

Maybe maybe not. What does turn a team around is coaching coupled with with about 15 high draft picks all entering their respective prime. What if guys like carter and Ximines turn into solid pros? Baker? What if Daniel jones goes from promising rookie to veteran? Barkley doesn’t miss half the year along with engram?

This was one of the youngest teams in the nfl last year. Forget what the numbers might say. The defense was infantile.

In comment 14855236 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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of the idiots that call a group the Dave Gettleman Fan Club provide examples of posts/threads proactively stating that Gettleman is a top flight GM and that he's doing a great job here? Is there evidence of threads being created that talk glowingly about the moves he's made? If not, it is a strawman argument, needlessly referenced for the sole reason of trying to label a non-existent group of posters.

You might want to keep an eye out for any post from Gettledogman, 5BowlsSoon, and Spider56 as examples.

There is definitely a contingent who vocally support the majority of Gettleman's work.

Often with the form and function you typically jump all over when it's a view you oppose.

It doesn’t take an in the know reporter like glazer to come up with this. If the giants suck balls in 2020 and all those kids DG drafted help the team suck balls, DG himself would admit he’s toast.

Don’t bet on it. Giants will be better. Organically they will be better just by accident.

If Judge does well ( may be different than what the record turns out to be) next year will be a transition year to Abrams and maybe a consulting role in 2022.

He is getting the players the coach wants while structuring contracts that preserve future cap space with much younger and players.

Those are just facts so far. If he does it next year as well he leaves a stable founda and perhaps a top 25% QB.

Still, his last press conference will be a doozy.

In comment 14855605 djm said:

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It doesn’t take an in the know reporter like glazer to come up with this. If the giants suck balls in 2020 and all those kids DG drafted help the team suck balls, DG himself would admit he’s toast. Don’t bet on it. Giants will be better. Organically they will be better just by accident.

Well, there is ringing endorsement. By accident.

In many regards Gettleman has turned it around. He inherited a veteran team with a top heavy cap allocation, moved all of those bad contracts, replaced the bulk of the team with players under 30 on manageable contracts.

In comment 14855613 Bill2 said:

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If Judge does well ( may be different than what the record turns out to be) next year will be a transition year to Abrams and maybe a consulting role in 2022. He is getting the players the coach wants while structuring contracts that preserve future cap space with much younger and players. Those are just facts so far. If he does it next year as well he leaves a stable founda and perhaps a top 25% QB. Still, his last press conference will be a doozy.

I think this is most plausible. It must have occurred to Mara Tisch this past season that they couldn’t really replace the HC this year and then a completely new GM next year. A transition to Abrams and a kick upstairs makes sense. Very Giants like. It might actually work too.

And don’t think his FA forays have yielded much good, but don’t feel like condemning for the FA moves either. Solder didn’t work out in 2019 but he wasn’t bad in 2018. His FA moves haven’t set the franchise back newrly as much as some of the detractors here insist. Doesn’t mean he gets a pass, we need to see progress and soon. I think we will. A portion of Young players will turn into good pros. Some will be great. We have a boat load of young players. Can we give these kids one or two years before we condekntheh guy who drafted them?

In comment 14855616 LBH15 said:

Quote:

In comment 14855605 djm said: Quote: It doesn’t take an in the know reporter like glazer to come up with this. If the giants suck balls in 2020 and all those kids DG drafted help the team suck balls, DG himself would admit he’s toast. Don’t bet on it. Giants will be better. Organically they will be better just by accident. Well, there is ringing endorsement. By accident.

Organically improving by accident means the collection of young players here will get better because that’s how these things usually work.

In comment 14855624 christian said:

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In many regards Gettleman has turned it around. He inherited a veteran team with a top heavy cap allocation, moved all of those bad contracts, replaced the bulk of the team with players under 30 on manageable contracts.

Exactly

In comment 14855236 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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of the idiots that call a group the Dave Gettleman Fan Club provide examples of posts/threads proactively stating that Gettleman is a top flight GM and that he's doing a great job here? Is there evidence of threads being created that talk glowingly about the moves he's made? If not, it is a strawman argument, needlessly referenced for the sole reason of trying to label a non-existent group of posters. Is it that hard to acknowledge that some of you are so over the top in your criticism that there are posts that defend him from those unwarranted takes?

what the fuck

2 years homie, he's had 2 effing years ....and in those 2 years arguably drafted 2 of the better cornerstone players for this franchise. Also got the Giants out of significant cap hell so that this team can build a young core. But no no no lets just focus on 2 or 3 FA's that didn't meet our unrealistic expectations cause we as fans know soooo much better.

it takes time to build a winning franchise look at fucking SF...seriously like get a grip and let this shit play out.

Give Getteleman another run with Judge and then check back in 2-3 years.

In comment 14855761 Rory said:

Quote:

In comment 14855236 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: of the idiots that call a group the Dave Gettleman Fan Club provide examples of posts/threads proactively stating that Gettleman is a top flight GM and that he's doing a great job here? Is there evidence of threads being created that talk glowingly about the moves he's made? If not, it is a strawman argument, needlessly referenced for the sole reason of trying to label a non-existent group of posters. Is it that hard to acknowledge that some of you are so over the top in your criticism that there are posts that defend him from those unwarranted takes? what the fuck 2 years homie, he's had 2 effing years ....and in those 2 years arguably drafted 2 of the better cornerstone players for this franchise. Also got the Giants out of significant cap hell so that this team can build a young core. But no no no lets just focus on 2 or 3 FA's that didn't meet our unrealistic expectations cause we as fans know soooo much better. it takes time to build a winning franchise look at fucking SF...seriously like get a grip and let this shit play out. Give Getteleman another run with Judge and then check back in 2-3 years.

Dude - those are some of the same points I've made before. My point is that there is a fairly large group of posters here who bash his every move or who start threads complaining about how bad he is - and then flip it around to call anyone defending him "The Dave Gettleman Fan Club".

You've had posters either intentionally or ignorantly mischaracterize how he's implemented analytics. You've had posters complain about his attitude at press conferences. You've had posters who have held it against him for the way he was hired. You even have one raging moron who calls his DSG - with the S meaning Shitbag, for no good reason at all.

And when you point out that he's had a fairly impressive body of work in his career and had success in Carolina - you get called a member of a fan club. It is actually pretty bizarre.

and being a harsh critic of him is a bizarre take?

In comment 14855818 LBH15 said:

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and being a harsh critic of him is a bizarre take?

That's what I said??

I said labeling people on this board as Gettleman Fan Club members is a bizarre take.

I see the contrarian slant didn't die with the new handle, Googs.

I thought it was a summation comment from any defense of Gettleman.

In comment 14855827 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

In comment 14855818 LBH15 said: Quote: and being a harsh critic of him is a bizarre take? That's what I said?? I said labeling people on this board as Gettleman Fan Club members is a bizarre take. I see the contrarian slant didn't die with the new handle, Googs.

Wait....LBH15 is Googs?

In comment 14855827 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

In comment 14855818 LBH15 said: Quote: and being a harsh critic of him is a bizarre take? That's what I said?? I said labeling people on this board as Gettleman Fan Club members is a bizarre take. I see the contrarian slant didn't die with the new handle, Googs.

Aren’t you known for over the top insults of other posters?

Now it’s not ok? Is “fuckstick” banned too?

In comment 14855215 BigBlueCane said:

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is that DG will panick and squander more resources trying to win quickly.

Huh? He took the long game approach last offseason, and once again took the long game approach with this FA period.

win quickly? He traded a bunch of vets for draft picks. He drafted a young QB.

In comment 14855761 Rory said:

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of the idiots that call a group the Dave Gettleman Fan Club provide examples of posts/threads proactively stating that Gettleman is a top flight GM and that he's doing a great job here?

In perfect bizarro irony, here ya go. They aren't too hard to spot. Replete with excuses and exaggerations.

Quote:

what the fuck 2 years homie, he's had 2 effing years ....and in those 2 years arguably drafted 2 of the better cornerstone players for this franchise. Also got the Giants out of significant cap hell so that this team can build a young core. But no no no lets just focus on 2 or 3 FA's that didn't meet our unrealistic expectations cause we as fans know soooo much better.

In comment 14855907 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 14855761 Rory said: Quote: of the idiots that call a group the Dave Gettleman Fan Club provide examples of posts/threads proactively stating that Gettleman is a top flight GM and that he's doing a great job here? In perfect bizarro irony, here ya go. They aren't too hard to spot. Replete with excuses and exaggerations. Quote: what the fuck 2 years homie, he's had 2 effing years ....and in those 2 years arguably drafted 2 of the better cornerstone players for this franchise. Also got the Giants out of significant cap hell so that this team can build a young core. But no no no lets just focus on 2 or 3 FA's that didn't meet our unrealistic expectations cause we as fans know soooo much better.

ummmm what?

Dear Christian...

please clarify what I said is an exaggeration or some grotesque excuse

Sure thing . The Giants were in perfectly fine cap shape when Gettleman took the reigns. So much so that Gettleman expended more guaranteed money in 2018 than Reese did in 2016. What’s your definition of cap hell?

Gettleman has not had just a few free agents that didn’t meet expectations. I’m struggling to actually find a few that did.

LB/DE Kareem Martin (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $15 million)
LT Nate Solder (Signed by Giants; 4-Years, $62 million)
OG Patrick Omameh (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $15 million)
CB Curtis Riley (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $630,000 salary)
WR Cody Latimer (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $2.5 million)
S Michael Thomas (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $4 million)
TE Scott Simonson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $705,000 salary)
OG Zac Kerin (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $630,000 salary)
LB Connor Barwin (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $5 million)
CB Leonard Johnson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $790,000 salary)
RB Jonathan Stewart (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $6.9 million)
CB Teddy Williams (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $880,000)
CB B.W. Webb (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $815,000)
DE Josh Mauro (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $880,000)
CB William Gay (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $1.105 million)
QB Alex Tanney (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $555,000 salary)
DT A.J. Francis (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $705,000 salary)
S Orion Stewart (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $480,000 salary)
WR Russell Shepard (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $1.25 million)
OT Jarron Jones (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $480,000 salary)
NT John Jenkins (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $790,000 salary)
LB Nate Stupar (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $850,000 salary)
WR Golden Tate (Signed by Giants; 4-Years, $37.5 million)
LB Markus Golden (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $3,281,250)
DE Olsen Pierre (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $943,750)
RB Rod Smith (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $805,000)
S Antoine Bethea (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $6.5 million)
RT Mike Remmers (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $2.5 million)
TE Eric Tomlinson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $720,000)
LB David Mayo (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $805,000)
LB Deone Bucannon (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $805,000)

of bad deals is Jonathan Stewart because it was such a ridiculous signing anyway you want to look at it...performance value, dollars, timing, guaranteed $, player demand. Was that DG’s first deal as the Giant GM?

Nevertheless,

In comment 14856812 LBH15 said:

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list of bad deals is Jonathan Stewart because it was such a ridiculous signing anyway you want to look at it...performance value, dollars, timing, guaranteed $, player demand. Was that DG’s first deal as the Giant GM? Nevertheless, if the DGFC is meeting soon again please send out the minutes. Hit send to fast on above post

In comment 14856813 LBH15 said:

Quote:

In comment 14856812 LBH15 said: Quote: list of bad deals is Jonathan Stewart because it was such a ridiculous signing anyway you want to look at it...performance value, dollars, timing, guaranteed $, player demand. Was that DG’s first deal as the Giant GM? Nevertheless, if the DGFC is meeting soon again please send out the minutes. Hit send to fast on above post

Of all the characters in the play getting blame, I find Gettleman a curious cause to actively defend. The list of crimes is long, and there is certainly hyperbolic blame cast at Mara, Tisch, Shurmur, Bettcher, and Manning, too.

The merry go round of explanations for Gettleman's lack of success makes me dizzy.

- There was no such thing as a re-build in the NFL, then there were no alternatives to the subpar players he brought on to stabilize the team

- Eli Manning had plenty left, then Eli Manning was forced on him

- Shurmur was a QB whisperer, then Shurmur was a loser

- The Giants needed to re-load the talent and spend, then the Giants were in cap hell after that didn't work

- Now we get to ignore most of the last 2 years (except the good things), because in reality year 3 is where it was always really just beginning

It might just be Gettleman is a guy that used to be pretty good at his job, and either didn't have much control over the Giants the last 2 years, or did a pretty bad job overall.

It might just be Gettleman has every ability to do a good job again. I sure hope it's the latter.

In comment 14855761 Rory said:

Quote:

In comment 14855236 FatMan in Charlotte said: "....and in those 2 years arguably drafted 2 of the better cornerstone players for this franchise. Also got the Giants out of significant cap hell so that this team can build a young core. " "......it takes time to build a winning franchise..." Give Getteleman another run with Judge and then check back in 2-3 years.

If one gives up on DG after this year, we'll never know what the source of the problem has been. I'm thinking the roster is pointing in the right direction after getting rid of some burden. Too soon to make any calls on the coaching staff...hence the 2-3 year plan makes sense and I'm leaning towards the 3 year plan in leniency given all the changes.