Glazer: Gettleman Has One Year to Turn Around the Giants

Not sure how this isn’t obvious to anyone who’s paying attention. He doesn’t understand the front office ABCs of running a team (cap and draft) and doesn’t understand the way the game has evolved (let’s stop the run!). Give Getty all the time in the world and he’s just going to continue to make bad and impulsive decisions. It’s who he is.

And, sorry, but even if the Judge and DJ turn out to be great, Getty isn’t going to bring another Lombardi to Big Blue. And this is exactly why Getty should have been jettisoned with Shurmur. We knew everything we needed to know then. Now Mara can’t really rationalize tossing Getty because he has a 1st year HC. So what, G’aints finish the season in October (again) and then a new GM is going to come in and overhaul the coaching staff and the roster which includes all these high draft picks and FAs? Yeah, no.

Getty’s here for at least another couple seasons. And it’s pathetic how far the Giants have fallen that we’ll all be pretty happy when Big Blue gets back to being.as good as the Jesse Armstead and Kent Graham teams. Maybe we’ll cheer for some big plays and have a few nice Sundays but this team is set up for third or fourth place finishes in the division for 5 or 6 years.

In comment 14854587 Earl the goat said:

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Becton / Wirfs/Wills and then Ruiz will go along way in the development of Jones along with making Barkley the Star he should be and saving Gettleman job He doesn’t need to force the pick He’s not here for the long haul and I think he will do the right thing in setting up the franchise for the future

I’ve been converted to team Simmons but this post makes too much sense. Barkley and Jones are priorities 1 and 2 and it’s not close.

In comment 14854729 trueblueinpw said:

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Not sure how this isn’t obvious to anyone who’s paying attention. He doesn’t understand the front office ABCs of running a team (cap and draft) and doesn’t understand the way the game has evolved (let’s stop the run!). Give Getty all the time in the world and he’s just going to continue to make bad and impulsive decisions. It’s who he is. And, sorry, but even if the Judge and DJ turn out to be great, Getty isn’t going to bring another Lombardi to Big Blue. And this is exactly why Getty should have been jettisoned with Shurmur. We knew everything we needed to know then. Now Mara can’t really rationalize tossing Getty because he has a 1st year HC. So what, G’aints finish the season in October (again) and then a new GM is going to come in and overhaul the coaching staff and the roster which includes all these high draft picks and FAs? Yeah, no. Getty’s here for at least another couple seasons. And it’s pathetic how far the Giants have fallen that we’ll all be pretty happy when Big Blue gets back to being.as good as the Jesse Armstead and Kent Graham teams. Maybe we’ll cheer for some big plays and have a few nice Sundays but this team is set up for third or fourth place finishes in the division for 5 or 6 years.

well you just have it all figured out huh?

Why and who would any owner or FO trot this out at this time?

Its a re hash of stuff from December and January.

its could easily be ( speculative) a hit job on a guy who maybe didn't give the reporter some hints about the upcoming draft he used to get.

The chances he got this from Mara or anyone close to Mara at this time are slim and none

But for the sake of argument let’s assume it is correct. I think the barometer of his fate will be more like the question that is often asked in political polls. Do you think the country/ team is on the right track. They could lose Jones or Barkley for the year, or maybe they finish 6-10 but unlike the last 2 years there is a sense things are tending upward.

In comment 14854686 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14854576 section125 said: Quote: bye-bye. This team is not turning around this year. They will be lucky to be in the 4-6 win range. I do think they may be at least decent in 2021.. Not for nothing but I really hate these takes. There is a lot of posters on this site that have said this and similar. Here's some recent entrants to the NFL that are starting QB's and how they did in their 2nd season in the NFL: Jared Goff: 11-4 Pat Mahomes: 12-4 Carson Wentz: 11-2 Josh Allen: 10-6 DeShaun Watson: 11-5 Lamar Jackson: 13-2 Most of those guys had losing records in their first season. Hell, Jared Goff didn't win a single game as a starter in his rookie year (0-7). I get that nothing is promised in the NFL, but there is absolutely no reason, that with a good draft, the Giants can't compete for the division next season. The Giants just added a damn fine corner that will really help Deandre Baker, who was really good in his own right towards the end of the year. They have good players on the DL. We have an All-World RB. The added quality veterans with leadership on both sides of the ball, to mix in with some seriously good young talented players. Remember that draft haul Gettleman brought last year? I expect it will really bear fruit in year 2, and Daniel Jones is smart enough and talented enough to improve mightily in year 2. He improved as the year went on last season. But all I here is that the Giants are not close and years away from competing. How about we let them play the games and see what Coach Judge and his staff can do with this team? I don't see a losing team next year. Sure, things can go off the rails, critical injuries can happen to jeopardize everything, but I think this team is a lot closer to being a winner than they were when the season ended. I think they can do it. Not in 2 or 3 years, but next year.

I was being sarcastic. I don't believe he is let go next year if they lose 12 games as long as Judge and the staff have the team playing competitively - tight games against good teams; the players make obvious strides and there is cohesion; if recently drafted players develop; FAs actually help and are not let go midseason because they suck.

As far as the draft, I truly think he knows he needs to get OL help now, but I am not sure he can/will pass on Simmons. Getting the defense off the field and keeping opposing offenses on the bench takes a lot of pressure off Jones. So this is his dilemma. Last year he passed on Allen, whom he desperately wanted, to take Jones. Does he pass on Simmons to take Wills/Wirfs? In round two, does he pass on Baun to take Ruiz?
Does he trade back, get an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder, and go oline all the way?

I think the mandate to improve is to stop missing on FAs and picks, get a coherent plan and to obtain the players necessary to implement that plan. I do not think win totals are the overriding determination.

Dr. Section

It’s common sense. He almost lost his job last year. Begged to be retained. He has so far failed miserably to repair the offensive line. That is really his only fault, granted a major one, but he took over a team with no cap space and horrible contracts all over with an aging qb.

This is his last shot. Pick number 4 or in a slight trade down will be an offensive tackle. It’s beyond obvious. I’m sorry to the simmons lovers who I predict will slide to right around 7 to Carolina. Dave Te mentioned Atlanta as well as as a possible suitor if they see him slide they may trade up with the jets to nab him. Good luck replacing keuchly!

DG will take 2 offensive lineman in this draft. One early as 4 and a center wether it’s Hennessy, Harris, Williams or the kid from Clemson. He will most likely walk away end of the year having secured a franchise tackle, franchise qb,franchise back. Also, he targeted Blake Martinez, a true captain and replacement for the ogletree. He drafted a slew of corners and signed his buddy bradberry who looks like a player coming into his prime. DG gets a lot of crap but he’s a damn good talent evaluator and team builder.

has a lot of connections but not sure about this one.

I think one thing that will be important is how he works with Judge who received a 5 year contract. Mara spoke several times with Belichick so I am hoping that BB said this is really your guy.

After firing two coaches on two year stints this will be given time. If any type of move is made I think it will be a handoff to Abrams and maybe a personnel guy of Judge's choosing. I think the more likely scenario is Dave steps down in a year or two. I don't see a cleaning out of the front office and coaching staff for at least three years but I think better results are on the horizon.

In comment 14854584 No Where Man said:

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Has DG ever done anything bad to Jay Glazer?

My first reaction as well. That doesn’t mean, however, that DG isn’t on the proverbial hot seat.

if we are 4-12 this year he should be fired.

this was truly the case then Gettleman might as well go home now, but I really don't believe this is 100% the case. This season will be incredibly difficult to judge anything by considering there is basically no off-season training program and new coaching staff for a incredibly young team. All of which is the opposite of the spectrum from when they won the SuperBowl coming off the last strike shortened offseason where training camps were cut in half but the team performed well because Tom & his coaching staff had been around a few years and the teams primary makeup was that of many veterans. Even if Gettleman hits a home run this offseason the circumstances are set up for the Giants to fail big time this year.

Once Abrams is ready, I think he’s the next guy, but Gettleman will get more time if progress is clear.

not sure I'd call it personal as I'd need to know the context of why Glazer was talking about this in the first place (was he asked his opinion or was it a segment he brought up?) but either way this seems like common sense to me. Another 4 or 5 win season and you simply cannot keep him.

Now, turn around could mean many things. Finishing 9-7 and being in the hunt until week 17 is something I'd consider a turn around but that's just me. No idea what Mara thinks.

but general theme of message sounds very plausible.

The only difference in this message to all the DG defenders here on BBI is the 3rd year wasn’t a de facto right.

the entire rookie class, new HC's, FA signings, etc. That isn't an excuse, it isn't just the Giants its effecting.

wouldn’t Gettleman have been more aggressive in FA?

What do you think of Garrett taking over as GM?

He seems to have the temperment, NFL Smarts, etc.

I could see a Garrett/Judge combo for years to come as GM-Coach.

In comment 14854796 Sean said:

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wouldn’t Gettleman have been more aggressive in FA?

Its a good question. I'm under the impression that this is now a "team decision" more than it was in the past. I think Judge has a lot more say in the FA's than McAdoo and Shurmur did. Judge is clearly building a program for beyond 2020 and snatching up the big ticket FA's doesn't jive with that strategy.

Plus we did go out and get one of the top 2 CB's, we just didn't splurge on Conklin and no one has splurged yet on Clowney.

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What needs to happen is for the players he has drafted to start performing as expected, and the free agents he signed contribute as expected. If that is happening but the team ends up 7-9 losing close games, I think he is back. If this team looks lost as it has the past several years, he should be gone despite the record.

This will be his third year as the GM, and the team - on paper - is not very talented. Obviously if that is true after the third year you have to question whether the person in charge of the roster is capable of fixing it.

Thinking he could contend for the playoffs in 18, in some sensing delaying the start of a needed rebuild, could end up being his biggest mistake.

In comment 14854667 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 14854659 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: head coach hire. I have seen fans pound the table that things are going fine and he's doing a good job and it's bizarre to me that a front office executive has a fan club as if he makes plays on sundays. The idea there is a large group of posters here that think Gettleman is doing a great job and are huge fans of his is a complete myth. What we have is a group of posters who don't think he's complete dogshit. Not sure how that constitutes a fan club, but I don't put a lot of stock in the comprehension of the average BBI'er.

Passive aggressive snipe at the end there aside, I didnt say here specifically. The second largest giants community online is the reddit page which also has its share of Gettleman fans.

For the record though, I would include you. Since the day he was hired you have stretched to contextualize even his firing from Carolina in a way that absolves him of his share of responsibility and also fluffed up his resume in a way to make him appear to be some kind of root cause for a team making a super bowl while downplaying the fact that he inherited a treasure grove of talent in there.

I didn't fluff up his resume - it was what it was. The best record for a Carolina GM and a SB appearance:

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For the record though, I would include you. Since the day he was hired you have stretched to contextualize even his firing from Carolina in a way that absolves him of his share of responsibility and also fluffed up his resume in a way to make him appear to be some kind of root cause for a team making a super bowl while downplaying the fact that he inherited a treasure grove of talent in there.

And in what context did I provide that information? To refute the slew of posters who have made it seem like Gettleman is one of the worst GM's.

The flip side is that people here have ignored his entire body of work - which includes an impressive string of teams he was associated with who went to or won SB's - and downplayed his role in Carolina as if anyone could have done what he did. Well, with basically the same talent, his successor has failed pretty badly.

Defense of Gettleman isn't a reflection of being in a fan club - it is to refute moronic takes and both minor and outright falsehoods about him that have been present on this board since the day he was hired in a manner that people didn't like.

...but they are not going to get a new GM one year after a new HC.

I’ve come around to believe Gettleman is less responsible for the direction of the team than his personality and on camera performances would lead you to believe.

There’s been something deeply broken in the fabric of the organization, hopefully Judge has both inherited a cleansed palette and brings the leadership necessary to address what’s been missing.

The last 2+ seasons have brought a sentimentality and blindness that’s been difficult to watch and disappointing to witness. It’s also brought an unprecedented reboot and unprecedented resources at the top of the draft.

What’s alarming is how bad the acquisition of veterans has transpired. This is shocking because that is Gettleman’s craft, and a skill he excelled in his last stint here.

Hopefully this off season bears better fruit in that facet and a collection of high potential draft picks. That would be a great step forward.

Not sure where you are going with that first sentence.

Let's get rid of DG. Let's trade DJ? Let's fire Judge if he doesn't win 12 games next year.

Let's face facts. This team is not very talented and the problem has been festering for years thanks to our previous GM.

How about we let DG work this draft to add young talent to our team. Let's give Judge 2 or 3 years to get things going. Let's fix our OL first so we don't waste another year of Barkley (RBs have a limited shelf life). If we can run the ball it helps the defense. If it's 3 and out I don't care how many all pros you add to the defense they will be worn down come the 4th qtr.

If this team can win 6 games it's a start. If they win 8 games I'd consider it a successful season. Next year we concentrate on the defense and sprinkle in a few picks on offense. Year 3 start picking and choosing.

In comment 14854944 LBH15 said:

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Not sure where you are going with that first sentence.

I think Dave’s been in the passenger seat on a number of critical decisions — coach hurlings/firings, Manning, Beckham, AZ UFAs, Green Bay UFAs etc.

I don’t follow other teams closely enough to know if that’s abnormal, but I don’t think he’s got the keys in a way his personality likes to reflect.

while trying to remain competitive. He as tied to Eli, perhaps, because the team history/ownership persuaded him to be tied to Eli?
I don't think Eli was problem #1 though but rather it was the complete lack on talent on the team, especially the OL and pass rush. We just didn't have the horses to win consistently or match up against better teams.
The Giants need to have another solid draft like we seem to have had last year. Our UFA class seems more "logical" on paper than the previous years with no "past their prime" signings.
If we draft well with rookies who contribute and the second and third year guys really step up we'll be on our way in the rebuild. I'm thinking ".500" team this year IF we help the OL.

Par for the course for this shitshow of a franchise.

In comment 14854962 Jeever said:

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Let's get rid of DG. Let's trade DJ? Let's fire Judge if he doesn't win 12 games next year. Let's face facts. This team is not very talented and the problem has been festering for years thanks to our previous GM. How about we let DG work this draft to add young talent to our team. Let's give Judge 2 or 3 years to get things going. Let's fix our OL first so we don't waste another year of Barkley (RBs have a limited shelf life). If we can run the ball it helps the defense. If it's 3 and out I don't care how many all pros you add to the defense they will be worn down come the 4th qtr. If this team can win 6 games it's a start. If they win 8 games I'd consider it a successful season. Next year we concentrate on the defense and sprinkle in a few picks on offense. Year 3 start picking and choosing.

Nobody is calling for trading Jones and firing Judge if next year is what many think it will be. Dave is another story. If after this year, the team wins 5, 4, and 4-6 games in his 3 years, why should he get a 4th year?

I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch.

We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him.

He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not.

And he really just freed up cap with the Bradberry and Martinez deals... maybe he really will bring in Clowney... then maybe draft a quality OT, OC and FS.

& Try to win the division... That will buy DG another year or two.

firing him a year after letting him select the coach, I mean, that's what the worst team in football would do.

In comment 14854985 LBH15 said:

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I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch. We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him. He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not.

I don't make those points to absolve Gettleman or defend how the Giants have managed the last 3 years. There have been major doses of outright stupidity.

My preference would be a GM who near unilaterally made football decisions, or a head coach with major oversight of personnel and a GM as the hiring manager.

I think the Giants suffer from Mara's inability to stay out of it when it comes to coaches and players he likes or dislikes, his fondness for the past, his desire for continuity, and his emotional ties to certain characters.

a team is likely to move in another direction. turnaround is a pretty vague term but I think the usage here is correct. This franchise needs to start heading in the right direction where it counts - results on the field. A lot of that is in the hands of the coaches now, but regardless of how much the final decision rested with Mara, Gettleman has twice been centrally involved in that process.

If things don't turn around this year Dave should move on and they should bring in a fresh voice who fits with what Judge is trying to do.

In comment 14854985 LBH15 said:

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I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch. We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him. He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not.

Being young or old is irrelevant. If you think his decisions have solely been his choice, then so be it, not really worth arguing. Others (myself included) don't think this has been a clean decision making process for our GM. He's had to deal with a meddling owner and trying to move on from the most beloved player in franchise history (under the approval of the meddling owner).

His biggest failure was not fixing the OL - it hasn't happened yet and if it doesn't this year he needs to go.

DG held on by a thread in January, and his relationship with Mara helped him stay on. The problem could be is this another Mara half measure management decision. I think DG is not the right GM for the longer term vision. When he goes, will Judge be looking good as the HC and will the new GM be ok keeping him on, and so forth.

I hear you, but I feel like this happens a lot lately and teams have to just get with the times - ie bringing a GM and coach in at the same time doesn't mean its any better.

I don't want a GM that can't work with Judge (or whoever our HC is). This seems like an outdated model to me, that both have to go or be hired together.

In comment 14855027 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 14854985 LBH15 said: Quote: I just can’t get on board with some of your statements on DG. And I am not sure it matters to me if he was a GM that drank the cool-aid or made his own batch. We are not talking about a young first time GM lacking experience or time in the front office. He has made some mistakes that have been whoppers in this latest tour duty and it’s on him. He has the DJ pick to carry him through or not. Being young or old is irrelevant. If you think his decisions have solely been his choice, then so be it, not really worth arguing. Others (myself included) don't think this has been a clean decision making process for our GM. He's had to deal with a meddling owner and trying to move on from the most beloved player in franchise history (under the approval of the meddling owner). His biggest failure was not fixing the OL - it hasn't happened yet and if it doesn't this year he needs to go.

Not young was only to bring in the sense that experience and operating in a football front office was not knew to him.

And again, these continued beliefs that he was hamstrung by a meddling owner to me are disingenuous. Does he act like a guy who isn’t his own man or one that wouldn’t push back on a bad decision? Not suggesting they still might not go forward with it but he sure as hell acts like a guy who has his own convictions. Do you think someone else drummed up the LW deal and sold it to DG?

Three years and significant resources is more than fair to expect he could get us out of the basement. Some folks have some serious low expectations. If they don't improve this year, damn right he better be gone.

you can insert Reese, Coughlin, anyone running a team across sports in that category. Never did never will.

I'm sure he did want Leonard Williams. I'm not absolving him of his missings, I'm just not obsessing over them in threads (I don't see the point). He's misfired for sure, specifically on the OL. We will see what happens with Williams - the trade looks strange right now but I'm going to wait on the numbers and see if it allows us to be more flexible in the draft (not taking another 2nd round DT) and of course, how he actually plays in 2020.

But others don’t have to share that view. The point is this is a giant blog site and this thread is specific to sharing opinions on this topic.

based on your posting you want to blame it all on DG - i'm not willing to do that. You can hammer away on every DG thread if you'd like, I'm not stopping you. Sure its a blog site, but there's such a thing as overkill and redundancy.

exaggeration.

In comment 14855040 JonC said:

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DG held on by a thread in January, and his relationship with Mara helped him stay on. The problem could be is this another Mara half measure management decision.

with every passing year, it sure seems like we have more and more evidence that Mara is a sub par owner.

you have a good shot at finding out.

I'm surprised you think the next GM of the Giants - whenever that happens - will have any say in whether the HC stays or goes - if it's still Judge or not.

Unless the Mara brothers are going somewhere the next GM of the Giants will have as much input about the HC as Gettleman did about Judge. Little to none.

As far as the OP goes Gettleman is on borrowed time if 2020 is another losing season. If it's another top 10 draft pick season he is 100% gone.

He was saying that in the current environment, with the draft coming on 3 weeks out this Thursday, the better GM’s have a distinct advantage. He then said the prospect of how Dave handles the draft this year terrifies him, which is telling as his confidence in DG was already low.

It’s like everyone knows DG kinda sucks at his job except the DGFC here and John Mara.