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Would anyone here draft Tua/Herbert and trade Jones?

Sean : 3/30/2020 8:32 pm
I just re-read the draft thread from last year. So many people here hated the pick. A year later, is there anyone who would sign for this scenario:

-Giants draft Tua or Herbert at 4
-Giants trade Daniel Jones to NE for their 1st round pick

Is there anyone here who would do that? I’m just curious given how criticized the pick was last year.

Note: I’m very high on Jones & would NOT do this. I am curious though if anyone on BBI would go this route.
Why would anyone publicly admit the desire...  
Torrag : 3/30/2020 8:34 pm : link
to do something so stupid?
NFW  
No Where Man : 3/30/2020 8:35 pm : link
...
No.  
section125 : 3/30/2020 8:36 pm : link
Tua is a walking injury and I know nothing on Herbert.
Nope  
Anakim : 3/30/2020 8:36 pm : link
An injury-prone QB or a QB who is very underwhelming and may not have true passion for football?


Nah, I'll stick with DJ
Hell no  
Jay on the Island : 3/30/2020 8:38 pm : link
After his performance last season I am excited to see what Jones can do with an improved offensive line, Engram, Barkley, and Shepard healthy, plus the continued development of Slayton and Kaden Smith.
Quarantine  
Gman11 : 3/30/2020 8:44 pm : link
got you going stir crazy?

Here's Johnny!!!
To be fair  
redwhiteandbigblue : 3/30/2020 8:47 pm : link
I don't recall even near a majority hating the pick. Most that did not like the pick were upset that we took Jones at #6 instead of at #17. Tua is an injury waiting to happen. Jones proved he can take a hit last year. No thank you on Tua.
um Danny Dimes, 27 TD passes, a year of pro experience  
gtt350 : 3/30/2020 8:48 pm : link
I think not
Probably not.  
The_Boss : 3/30/2020 8:58 pm : link
-
Not only "no",  
BigBlueNH : 3/30/2020 9:21 pm : link
but we could get alot more than the #23 pick in the draft for him.
The thing about this hypothetical  
AcesUp : 3/30/2020 9:24 pm : link
Is that the pure act of putting your second year Top 10 QB on the market completely torpedoes his trade value. Regardless of whether he is or he isn’t, people will rightfully assume that you’re trying to unload a lemon.
The pick was hated  
Amtoft : 3/30/2020 9:30 pm : link
so much because they passed on a pass rushing stud that fell into their laps and most felt we could have moved up a little to still get Jones. Josh Allen is a stud, but most probably are happy with Jones after a very nice rookie year. Man though if we were able to get Jones and Josh Allen that would have been amazing.
If we hadn’t changed coaches  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/30/2020 9:33 pm : link
I would put it completely out of the realm of possibilities.

With Judge at head coach and having such a strong relationship with Saban, I could see Judge wanting his own guy and Tua being that guy.

After all that has been said and done I think the chances of us selecting another QB are super low. Jones needs to work on something’s but there is certainly enough to move forward.
Yes  
Chip : 3/30/2020 9:42 pm : link
drafted allen last year and Herbert this year.
didn't quite read the post  
Chip : 3/30/2020 9:43 pm : link
Jones for the 23rd no
Danny Dimes would have been long gone  
Giant John : 3/30/2020 9:51 pm : link
At 17.
Yeah, and then watch DJ become the second coming and....  
Crispino : 3/30/2020 9:54 pm : link
prolong the New England dynasty? Because that’s the kind of shit that would happen. Because New England and Bill are the Antichrist.
Hell no  
kes722 : 3/30/2020 9:57 pm : link
Jones will... barring injuries, surpass eli in Giants records
.  
Danny Kanell : 3/30/2020 10:01 pm : link
I honestly don’t understand how a Giant fan could watch Jones’ entire rookie season and not be anything but excited about our new young QB. He has work to do but my God people. Trade him for an unknown in this draft?
.  
ghost718 : 3/30/2020 10:08 pm : link
No  
mdthedream : 3/30/2020 10:22 pm : link
not even close. I think he is going to be a really special player.
RE: .  
Sean : 3/30/2020 10:25 pm : link
In comment 14854647 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
I honestly don’t understand how a Giant fan could watch Jones’ entire rookie season and not be anything but excited about our new young QB. He has work to do but my God people. Trade him for an unknown in this draft?


Did you read my thread? It’s an honest question, I would not do it. I re-read last year’s draft thread and a common theme was how the 2020 QB class was loaded. I’m honestly curious if anyone still felt that way.
If I’m not Mistaken, our very own JonC  
bradshaw44 : 3/30/2020 10:26 pm : link
Said he would do exactly that with Herbert.

Unless my memory is deceiving me. But I could swear he posted that unsolicited on a thread months back.
No...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/30/2020 10:27 pm : link
...D.J. showed that he has the tools, intelligence and moxie to be a good NFL QB.
You know, just to be devil's advocate here, we would get a QB  
PatersonPlank : 3/30/2020 10:33 pm : link
that I would say most scouts think has a better future than Jones, plus another #1 pick to use. Potentially, with a little luck, we could get on of the top 4 OT's and Tua.

Not sure where I would fall on this, but I wouldn't dismiss this out of hand
Schmuck! Are you giving up DJ after he looked so promising last season  
Fishmanjim57 : 3/30/2020 10:37 pm : link
I think the draft will be designed to protect DJ and build around him.
...Boy would Belichick...  
Mcphedge : 3/31/2020 1:12 am : link
...just love that trade...
RE: You know, just to be devil's advocate here, we would get a QB  
section125 : 3/31/2020 3:57 am : link
In comment 14854682 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
that I would say most scouts think has a better future than Jones, plus another #1 pick to use. Potentially, with a little luck, we could get on of the top 4 OT's and Tua.

Not sure where I would fall on this, but I wouldn't dismiss this out of hand


Which QB, Tua? He's a walking IL waiting to happen. The top 4 OL will be gone by #15.
NE would be the 1st team calling, which is very telling  
George from PA : 3/31/2020 6:49 am : link
The good news is Judge, Garett are all in on Jones....communication are going great. They are building an offense around his skill set....so, they will be no QB controversy.

More talent is coming......

Now, I suspect it will not be the same for TE...I think Engram days are numbered.
DJ has the tools needed to be an outstanding QB for many years to come  
idinkido : 3/31/2020 6:57 am : link
Look at how he stands in the pocket keeping his eyes downfield despite feeling pass pressure put on him a good amount of the time. He throws a beautiful and accurate pass, and has the legs to extend plays and even run for yards on his own. DJ is well built and easily handles contact. We got ourselves a weapon at QB and nobody on the Giants is trading him.
Absolutely not  
Matt G : 3/31/2020 7:02 am : link
Only if we are talking Trevor Lawrence would my answer change
RE: RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 3/31/2020 7:18 am : link
In comment 14854668 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14854647 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


I honestly don’t understand how a Giant fan could watch Jones’ entire rookie season and not be anything but excited about our new young QB. He has work to do but my God people. Trade him for an unknown in this draft?



Did you read my thread? It’s an honest question, I would not do it. I re-read last year’s draft thread and a common theme was how the 2020 QB class was loaded. I’m honestly curious if anyone still felt that way.


sean, DK was generalizing. Nothing personal, imo. I happen to agree with him.
If Jones were in the draft this season  
joeinpa : 3/31/2020 7:36 am : link
Based on his college career I would probably buy into the Tua hype, and I love Herbert; this coming from a guy who loves the Jones pick.

But having seen what Danny accomplished his rookie season, I wouldn’t trade Jones for either of them, or Burrow.

Danny Jones’ rookie season was so superior to anything I ve ever seen from a Giants rookie quarterback l, in my years of fandom, since 1956, I have difficulty understanding his still many critics here.

His fumbling problems greatly diminished as the year went on, and in his first game he led a 19 pt comeback, something the Giants hadn’t accomplished in 2 decades, in the process making some unbelievable plays.

I think most of the criticism towards this guy by Giants fans is based on them being disappointing Eli s career ended before he or they were ready.

Good pt. of discussion Sean l, for those who read carefully enough to understand your pt. was to revisit the gnashing of teeth over the Jones pick with the benefit of hindsight.

Many did hate  
GiantMike92 : 3/31/2020 7:47 am : link
the pick, in reading here it sure felt like the majority. This anti Jones sentiment was certainly driven by the media. Me personally, I was in the wait and see but hopeful camp. As for the trade it’s a no for me
Jones rookie season  
Carl in CT : 3/31/2020 7:59 am : link
Was better than any rookie QB in MY Giant history post (1965). That is a fact.
I like Jones  
US1 Giants : 3/31/2020 8:03 am : link
but if the Giants actually did this then I could come around to supporting it. Not going to happen IMO. Jones is staying.
Tua is a hard no even if we didn't have Jones  
UConn4523 : 3/31/2020 8:20 am : link
I think he's a great kid but he's snakebit, and I just don't see his body holding up better in the Pros.

Herbert vs. Jones is interesting and goes back to last draft - do you take the guy that looks more Pro ready despite playing with absolute shit around him or the guy who put up really good numbers in a much better program? I haven't watch enough of Herbert this past year to know how clean he is at this point in time but I've seen a year of Jones already in the pro's and I wouldn't give him up to risk the stage being too big for the next guy.
Neither of those QBs are worthy to give up on Jones  
Rudy5757 : 3/31/2020 8:38 am : link
If you are going to give up on Jones, it has to be for someone who is head and shoulders above him. The guy that comes along once in a decade. A John Elway, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck. None of these guys have the cant miss look coming out of college like those guys so there is no way I would give up on Jones for one of them.

Tua has a big injury history already. I would pass on him even if I needed a QB. I dont see a long career. Herbert hasn't shown enough to say hes could be the guy. He's a mid 1st talent, a guy you take if he falls to you but I dont see teams trading up to get him unless they are desperate.
Known vs Unknown  
HMunster : 3/31/2020 8:49 am : link
Overall, despite some improvement areas identified, DJ had a fantastic rookie season.

History is not kind when you look at who the "experts" believe will be the best QB's. It's an unknown. Look at which QB's have been drafted in the Top 5 over the years and see how many busts there are. For every Manning or Elway, there's a Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russel, Tim Couch, Heath Shuler, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, etc. Expand that to 1st round in general and the list is huge.

Why would you presume to know the future and trade a known QB in DJ who has already shown the goods at the NFL level for an unknown?
Fix the OL first....  
GFAN52 : 3/31/2020 8:54 am : link
and any QB will look better.
RE: Why would anyone publicly admit the desire...  
ZogZerg : 3/31/2020 8:55 am : link
In comment 14854577 Torrag said:
Quote:
to do something so stupid?


LOL. Exactly.
I would want some more than just their first rounder  
LBH15 : 3/31/2020 8:59 am : link
as DJ clearly showed he can be a solid starter sans the fumbles. Would need another starter or another fairly early pick.

If Tua or Herbert reached a scouting grade level approx or better than had on Jones, yes I would give it consideration.
The Giants wouldn't do it....  
BillKo : 3/31/2020 9:18 am : link
....obviously, as DG went out on a limb to draft DJ and it appears to be a shrewd move.

But would any of us do it? As a new GM, if we thought DJ wasn't really that good, then sure. A new GM would want to pick his guy.

But Tua appears to be an injury waiting to happen at the NFL level, and Herbert is an unknown at the NFL level.

Daniel Jones performed exceptionally well for a rookie given he circumstances w/ the Giants OL and supporting cast. I'd think a new regime would smartly want to build around him.

Not a chance.  
Section331 : 3/31/2020 9:54 am : link
Tua's injury history is a concern, and Herbert is a boom or bust guy. Great athlete, great arm, but his accuracy issues concern me.

We know DJ's floor - a soled NFL starter, but his ceiling could be much more than that. I'd rather take my chances with him.
don't forget that Tua fumbled 3 times in the nattys vs. Clemson  
markky : 3/31/2020 10:18 am : link
and made mental mistakes that led to a pick 6, a strip fumble and a sack.

I think Jones is a bigger better Tua.

Tua's best attribute is his accuracy. Jones' best attribute is his ball placement. Jones is bigger and at least as athletic, probably more athletic.

No way I make the trade.

and Herbert? No.
RE: Why would anyone publicly admit the desire...  
tb7117 : 3/31/2020 10:51 am : link
In comment 14854577 Torrag said:
Quote:
to do something so stupid?

AGREE JEZO BEZO
The one thing not being acknowledged..  
LeonBright45 : 3/31/2020 12:26 pm : link
is the fact that the year Jones spent under Eli taking his lumps would be to the benefit of another team.

Jones is already where you would hope the next guy could be at this time next year.

If we trade Jones and start fresh with a rookie we might as well trade Barkley too.
No but...  
HugeS : 3/31/2020 1:02 pm : link
Herbert looks a lot like Jones coming out except at a higher profile. Tall, plus athlete, super durable, played with subpar receivers and lost starters throughout the year none of whom were considered real NFL caliber to begin with. He's good rolling out of the pocket and thrives in play action type situation. The tools are similar, the style is similar, and the question marks about his accuracy, decision making, tendency to hold onto the ball, etc seem to revolve around the same flags Jones had coming out. Gettleman may suck as a GM but he deserves his proper due when it comes to Jones. He showed balls of steel picking him over Josh Allen. Jones has proven he has the poise and mental toughness to lead a franchise. He never had a number one receiver, played behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league, and had less time to operate in since the defense could never get off the field. Yet he still hung in there, made tough throws, kept a really bad team in games and was productive. Why would you go down that same road again with a similarly flawed prospect with similar red flags going in hoping he pans out and beats his projection?
Tua is a hard no because like others said he showed no durability while playing behind one of the best offensive lines in college football. If he was already so reckless with his body at the college level why would that change playing against much heavier defensive pressure in the NFL? I'd be willing to give him a pass for bombing in the Clemson game since that was an outlier. He played some of his best ball in some of his other encounters against his toughest competition. Exhibit A is the LSU game where he was lights out in the second half, rallying his team back to almost steal a game against a clearly superior opponent. He has all the poise, the accuracy, the arm strength and leadership you look for in a franchise quarterback but takes way too many unnecessary risks and already carries a significant injury history on a smallish frame. That makes him a very hard pass.


RE: Yes  
jestersdead : 3/31/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14854634 Chip said:
Quote:
drafted allen last year and Herbert this year.

This should really be the talking point. Would you have rather drafted Allen last year and still be able to get your future QB this year. My answer is, yes.

There were people last year talking about the Giants strong interest for Herbert. He stayed in school another year and is a better prospect than last year
RE: Hell no  
jestersdead : 3/31/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14854642 kes722 said:
Quote:
Jones will... barring injuries, surpass eli in Giants records

He already missed more games in his first year than Eli did in his entire career.
With the rate at which surefire 1st round QB's bust.....  
Britt in VA : 3/31/2020 1:43 pm : link
to me, it would be pretty dumb to trade away what we know we have for what is unknown. I'd prefer staying steady than swinging for the fences and busting out.
Firm NO Here,  
clatterbuck : 3/31/2020 2:05 pm : link
hells no, nyet, etc.
Wonder what the reaction would be here.....  
Britt in VA : 3/31/2020 2:36 pm : link
if we did this, whomever we drafted was average at best, and Daniel Jones went on to win a couple of Superbowls with Belichick.
Absolutely not.  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/31/2020 2:51 pm : link
We've already seen what Jones can do with a shit OL around him and with his best WR being Sterling Shepard. Give him a better OL and WR and we might be onto something.
jetersdead  
Sean : 3/31/2020 3:14 pm : link
Quote:
This should really be the talking point. Would you have rather drafted Allen last year and still be able to get your future QB this year. My answer is, yes.

There were people last year talking about the Giants strong interest for Herbert. He stayed in school another year and is a better prospect than last year


You could also then compare Jones + Simmons vs Herbert + Allen, we could still end up with a dynamic defensive player or stud OT.

But why? For what purpose?  
Britt in VA : 3/31/2020 3:18 pm : link
What's done is done. We could go back and endlessly debate a million different scenarios but what good would it do?

Daniel Jones is our QB. What we are going to do at #4 to supplement what we have right now going forward should be the talking point.
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