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The Jaguars have heard from multiple interested teams about a possible trade for DE Yannick Ngakoue, who turns 25 today. The Jags value him and won’t give him away for little return but it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out as we draw closer to the draft Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo |
He's an interesting player, but I still wouldn't pay him $22M per season. Elite dollars only for elite talent.
I'd rather sign Golden and Correa for modest deals at this point.
All efforts on draft board and trying to set up a trade down for more picks.
I'd rather sign Golden and Correa for modest deals at this point.
Agreed
they have $17,388,425 left in cap room
They’re a bit delusional in how they value their worth as players.
This would allow them to take one of Tua/Herbert, or, if they are comfortable with Minshew, they may land Okudah to replace Ramsey
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
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#4 for #9, #73 (3rd rounder) and Ngakoue
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
Well, let’s start at the beginning. Take Ngakoue out of the equation.
What would it cost, in your view, as Giants GM, to move down to #9 with the Jags. Just pick wise. Go!
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#4 for #9, #73 (3rd rounder) and Ngakoue
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
I would probably stick to #4 for #9 and Ngakoue. The difference in value between #4 and #9 on the value chart is about a 2nd round pick. And in a QB heavy class the pick is even worth more.
So I don't think the Jags would get better value than to move all the way up to #4. They either have there pick of Okudah or Simmons. Or even Tua/Herbert if they really want to go that route.
so I would take Ngakoue and a #9 for #4
and get our T at #9
then C in round 2
then WR in round 3
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In comment 14854961 Saos1n said:
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#4 for #9, #73 (3rd rounder) and Ngakoue
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
I would probably stick to #4 for #9 and Ngakoue. The difference in value between #4 and #9 on the value chart is about a 2nd round pick. And in a QB heavy class the pick is even worth more.
So I don't think the Jags would get better value than to move all the way up to #4. They either have there pick of Okudah or Simmons. Or even Tua/Herbert if they really want to go that route.
With all due respect sir, we have been debating on this site for months, that we could deal down with the Dolphins at 5, Chargers at 6 or the Panthers at 7 and get a 2nd, a 3rd and a future pick. Potentially, of course. The QB’s (if available) make the difference.
Now, the price is only a 2nd to go from 9 to 4? Not IMO. ESPECIALLY if they want a QB. Who knows if they do
He's an interesting player, but I still wouldn't pay him $22M per season. Elite dollars only for elite talent.
This.
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In comment 14854961 Saos1n said:
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#4 for #9, #73 (3rd rounder) and Ngakoue
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
Well, let’s start at the beginning. Take Ngakoue out of the equation.
What would it cost, in your view, as Giants GM, to move down to #9 with the Jags. Just pick wise. Go!
I’m immediately asking for 2 second rounders to start if I’m moving down 5 slots. And with that I’d probably want a 4th too. There’s a premium for someone moving up for a QB.
so I would take Ngakoue and a #9 for #4
and get our T at #9
then C in round 2
then WR in round 3
I get the chart. I do. However, if a QB they love is available at 4 and the Jags have the opportunity to jump (as many as 3 teams) who may value that QB just as highly, I’m throwing the chart out the window.
I don’t even know why I started this idea. DG isn’t trading down. We all know it. LMAO
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In comment 14854966 The_Boss said:
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In comment 14854961 Saos1n said:
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#4 for #9, #73 (3rd rounder) and Ngakoue
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
I would probably stick to #4 for #9 and Ngakoue. The difference in value between #4 and #9 on the value chart is about a 2nd round pick. And in a QB heavy class the pick is even worth more.
So I don't think the Jags would get better value than to move all the way up to #4. They either have there pick of Okudah or Simmons. Or even Tua/Herbert if they really want to go that route.
With all due respect sir, we have been debating on this site for months, that we could deal down with the Dolphins at 5, Chargers at 6 or the Panthers at 7 and get a 2nd, a 3rd and a future pick. Potentially, of course. The QB’s (if available) make the difference.
Now, the price is only a 2nd to go from 9 to 4? Not IMO. ESPECIALLY if they want a QB. Who knows if they do
oh I agree but the thought is the Jags want a 2nd round pick plus an additional asset. It was rumored early they want a #1. If they are interested in a #2 + an additional asset that is around pretty "fair" value to move from #4 to #9 (according to the chart). Now it all depends on leverage.
If the jags have 3 or 4 good offers for Yannick then we can't really ask for the moon. If they are desperate to move him we probably get an extra pick.
However to the point. We would get a pass rusher + get one of the tackles we might be picking anyway at #9. It kinda fills two holes in one move.
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In comment 14854966 The_Boss said:
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In comment 14854961 Saos1n said:
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#4 for #9, #73 (3rd rounder) and Ngakoue
How is that a fair trade? I’d be asking for more than just #4 overall if I’m giving up 2 picks and a pass rusher.
Well, let’s start at the beginning. Take Ngakoue out of the equation.
What would it cost, in your view, as Giants GM, to move down to #9 with the Jags. Just pick wise. Go!
I’m immediately asking for 2 second rounders to start if I’m moving down 5 slots. And with that I’d probably want a 4th too. There’s a premium for someone moving up for a QB.
So, in that scenario, if we take JonC’s post into account, that the asking price is a 2nd rounder, that eliminates this years 2nd rounder for Ngakoue, leaving, in your view, a 4th and another 2nd.
We’ll even throw them the 4th as part of the Ngakoue piece just to be nice. That still leaves a 2nd coming to us, so how is asking for their 3rd too steep, if you were GM?
#4 for #9, Ngakoue (2nd and 4th) and a 3rd (your asking price of the addl 2nd)
he has had a very similar career start to Osi. Now when Osi was 26 years old he did put of a 14 sack season. So Ngakoue is 25 today so it is pretty similar trajectory.
But when you look at fumbles forced. The game changing ability Osi had Ngakoue already has 14 fumbles forced in 4 years. Which again is even a better pace then Osi.
Sometimes just the threat of a guy like him on the edge makes you think and changes the game just like Osi did. Its that internal clock for QB's and one sack fumble can change a game.
He's a really good player and still really young.
What really made me intrigued me about him was listening to Taylor Lewan talk about playing aginst him (Some good video with it).
link - ( New Window )
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and a career high of 12. Let's not overrate as elite.
he has had a very similar career start to Osi. Now when Osi was 26 years old he did put of a 14 sack season. So Ngakoue is 25 today so it is pretty similar trajectory.
But when you look at fumbles forced. The game changing ability Osi had Ngakoue already has 14 fumbles forced in 4 years. Which again is even a better pace then Osi.
Sometimes just the threat of a guy like him on the edge makes you think and changes the game just like Osi did. Its that internal clock for QB's and one sack fumble can change a game.
He's a really good player and still really young.
That's a different, more accurate take. Osi wasn't really an elite pass rusher either. He had two pro bowl seasons, a few double digit sack seasons, a career high of 14.5 etc. He was a very good player, who had a knack for clutch plays, and could get white hot at times.
Two very good players, but elite should be reserved for those who are elite. Pay them accordingly so you avoid the Olivier Vernon overpay situation.
I pay Khalil Mack $22M per, I'm not paying A+ money to YN at this time.
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In comment 14855001 JonC said:
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and a career high of 12. Let's not overrate as elite.
he has had a very similar career start to Osi. Now when Osi was 26 years old he did put of a 14 sack season. So Ngakoue is 25 today so it is pretty similar trajectory.
But when you look at fumbles forced. The game changing ability Osi had Ngakoue already has 14 fumbles forced in 4 years. Which again is even a better pace then Osi.
Sometimes just the threat of a guy like him on the edge makes you think and changes the game just like Osi did. Its that internal clock for QB's and one sack fumble can change a game.
He's a really good player and still really young.
That's a different, more accurate take. Osi wasn't really an elite pass rusher either. He had two pro bowl seasons, a few double digit sack seasons, a career high of 14.5 etc. He was a very good player, who had a knack for clutch plays, and could get white hot at times.
Two very good players, but elite should be reserved for those who are elite. Pay them accordingly so you avoid the Olivier Vernon overpay situation.
oh agreed. But when does a "elite" pass rusher hit the open market in his prime? Mack was probably the last one and he has 40.5 sacks in his first 4 years compared to Ngakoue 37.5 in his first 4 years.
Considering it cost the Bears 2 1st round picks and then pay Mack. If it just cost moving down 5 spots form #4 to #9 (still get a tackle we covet). It's something we should consider.
And while Osi wasn't an all-pro DE. He was still a game changer. We don't win either superbowl without him. Those type of guys can get shut out for 3 qtr but all they have to do is beat there guy one time in the 4th and come up with a huge sack fumble and change a game.
I guess considering our 3 options
1 - take simmons at #4
2 - take #1 OT on the board at #4
3 - trade down to chargers at #6 get an extra 2nd round pick
4 - trade down to #9 and get Ngakoue and #9 (still get one of (Wirfs, Wills, or Becton).
I could make the case scenario #4 makes our team the best in the immediate and long term future.
If Simmons is gone, and Young are gone, go OT.
If Simmons is gone, and Young are gone, go OT.
Solder and Flemming our our book end tackles for the future?
I also dont think a trade like this can happen anytime but during the draft bc if somehow young falls, we ignore every offer and take him.
I also dont think a trade like this can happen anytime but during the draft bc if somehow young falls, we ignore every offer and take him.
They would have to have like a deal in place based on who is there at 4 for the Giants (if its Young, the deal obviously wouldn't be completed then) something like that.
Think we can get a 3 this yr, maybe a 4 too if we throw in a 6
Still would give us 5 picks in first 110 or so
Would have probably the choice of OT still, if not at least 2-4th rated
4 other picks can grab center, ER, safety and WR
Probably sport a decent young team if u do well drafting
And still set up well on salary cap in 2021, even after paying saquon
Solder and Tate would probably be off the books
Think we can get a 3 this yr, maybe a 4 too if we throw in a 6
Still would give us 5 picks in first 110 or so
Would have probably the choice of OT still, if not at least 2-4th rated
4 other picks can grab center, ER, safety and WR
Probably sport a decent young team if u do well drafting
And still set up well on salary cap in 2021, even after paying saquon
Solder and Tate would probably be off the books
i know it seems like a lot consider the value chart. But when QB's are in plan the value chart goes out the window. For example the jets trade #6 and 3 2nd round picks to move up to #3. If you consider the chart they overpaid probably by a late 1st rounder (600-700 pts). But if you want to secure your QB of the future the trade chart goes out the window.
If they got Yannick you def go OT at 4 (or whatever number in a trade down)
Our third this year as in our compensatory pick?
No wonder some of you cling so dearly to defending DG. You don't have a fucking clue about what's actually realistic.
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really want to trade him, I'd low ball the offer. Our 3rd this year and 2nd next year. Then try to re-sign him to a long term deal that is in the 17-18M per. I wouldn't give up our early 2nd in this year's draft for him.
Our third this year as in our compensatory pick?
No wonder some of you cling so dearly to defending DG. You don't have a fucking clue about what's actually realistic.
Caldwell has been a terrible GM for Jax but somehow still survives. But Tony Khan would do a flying elbow drop on Dave Caldwell if he even entertained the #99 pick (104 point value) and 2nd in 2021 for Yannick.
For a top FA Edge setting the market at $18M/yr where no draft assets have to be surrendered, then this affects what Yannick can expect. The more draft capital that is surrendered, the less a team will pay that player. Clowney's market figures was just reported on NFL Live.
Just have to bump this as Yannick kept feeding the fire. If this continues for the next couple of weeks, Caldwell may be forced and happy to take our Mr. Irrelevant Pick.