Simmons is Very Frustrating to Watch

Ramses Barden; amazing athlete that is capable of incredible physical feats, BUT it's just not in him to mix-it-up ...

In other words, he could be s world-class tennis or golf player.

that we are a fan base accustomed to the best linebacker play in NFL history for those that have been Giants fans for long enough. I mean LT played with a separated shoulder. On another occasion he literally beat the Lions on his own back in the day, a game he was questionable to play in due to injury no less. Can you imagine that happening in today’s NFL? Simmons is a unique player that can be placed in a variety of positions and can excel. It’s a much different game than it used to be. More about speed and versatility than strength and nastiness. And Taylor had the speed, versatility, strength, and nastiness for the record. Best player of all time. I think Simmons will be a player, but don’t expect that nasty streak past players have exemplified. I don’t think you will see that too much in the future from many players.

And people want him at #4?!

...for the Redskins to pick him at #2

We could run right over Simmons couple of times with our Tight Ends blocking him easily and then run play action and just watch him bite. Jones over the top to Engram, TD Giants!!

Simmons is not someone the offense fears. His lack of physicality will only be more apparent in the NFL. I don't want him. If the Giants pick him I will root for him to be lined up as our Free Safety with Peppers at SS.

In comment 14856867 eric2425ny said:

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that we are a fan base accustomed to the best linebacker play in NFL history for those that have been Giants fans for long enough. I mean LT played with a separated shoulder. On another occasion he literally beat the Lions on his own back in the day, a game he was questionable to play in due to injury no less. Can you imagine that happening in today’s NFL? Simmons is a unique player that can be placed in a variety of positions and can excel. It’s a much different game than it used to be. More about speed and versatility than strength and nastiness. And Taylor had the speed, versatility, strength, and nastiness for the record. Best player of all time. I think Simmons will be a player, but don’t expect that nasty streak past players have exemplified. I don’t think you will see that too much in the future from many players.

Total truth. I do think Simmons is both worth the 4th pick and will be a great pro, but he won’t be LT. Nobody will be.

than Simmons will ever be and even he was considered to be a Safety.

Simmons is no Sean Taylor

Simmons is being used as a north-south linebacker in the NFL, he's being used wrong.

His two best traits are coverage and his sideline to sideline tackling ability. Both of those are extremely valuable traits in the NFL.

many consider him to be a classic Strong Safety in the mold of a Sean Taylor, David Fultcher, Steve Atwater, kind of player who has the length to cover Tight Ends and the speed to cover half the field in zone coverage all while being able to generate enough speed and force to knock the snot out of somebody.

If he can't fight off a block to make a tackle as an ILB, and he would get crushed trying to set the edge as an OLB, he is a Safety in the NFL. I'm sure that he can play "coverage LB" on passing plays, but he is what I consider to be a back seven player, not a front seven player.

The best Safeties were a little bit crazy. Simmons is a very tame, play it safe kind of player. Might make a good pro, but I see nothing that leads me to believe that he can elevate a Defense and intimidate an Offense.

isn't that what Blake Martinez, David Mayo & hopefully Ryan Connelly are good at?

which of our linebackers do you currently trust to run with tight ends/running backs or play in that soft part of the zone in the middle of the field where we've been burned so many damned times over the years?

I guess you believe that Simmons will be instructed to just hang back; let the real linebackers take on the guard, fill the hole, and make the tackle.

Since that time, I rarely remember the Giants having an LB who could cover TEs or RBs out of the backfield. Who was the best at that coverage? Michael Boley?

I definitely remember getting killed by Westbrook, Witten, etc in the middle of the field.

If I had to guess, I think Simmons would be a very valuable asset in todays league.

I’m with you. There’s a lot of hand waving by the Simmons pick supporters about his position. Judge may have used the word “multiple” but the Patriots have defined positions in their defense. We already made a significant investment into Simmons’ most likely position (Peppers). So this would be duplicating a player on a talent starved team.

I am waiting for Sy’s LB review with a lot of curiosity. I expect him to rate Simmons very highly as an LB. That should prompt some good discussion.

It's why he isn't in the Chase Young category but instead in the next group with Jeudy/Okudah/Wills/Lamb/Becton/Wirfs.

They all have something about their game, AA or physique you'd like to improve. Nevertheless they are really good players. The Reddest of red chips prospects.

In comment 14856892 Torrag said:

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It's why he isn't in the Chase Young category but instead in the next group with Jeudy/Okudah/Wills/Lamb/Becton/Wirfs. They all have something about their game, AA or physique you'd like to improve. Nevertheless they are really good players. The Reddest of red chips prospects.

Except for the people who think he is above Young...

Right around people and make plays.
The only contact is the tackle.

Yeah, because there are three of you. Hahaha.

Can anyone link a video showing Simmons avoiding contact? Not disputing the OP, just curious.

He’s an athlete not a football players. Wide hashes in college allowed him much more space and freedom to roam. In the nfl it’s much tighter and the athletes are the best of the best and most are physical and have that mentality. Simmons lacks toughness. You can’t teach that. Good luck when he goes to tackle Zeke. He’ll run him right over along with many of the tight ends in this league. Simmons is lean. I don’t care if he’s 238. Look at his body. Small hips slender frame. He will struggle at the next level. I don’t see a top 10 pick but I’m in the minority. Again, he’s Taylor mays in my eyes.

It would be a huge mistake to draft Simmons as an LB. If you think he's worth #4 overall to be your starting FS, so be it, go for it, maybe he's the next Ronnie Lott or Earl Thomas or Ed Reed.

Brian Urlacher he ain't, and he's not likely to become that.

I don't think players "grow into" liking contact or relishing the physical nature of the game. Bryan Kehl part II, just faster, twitchier.

Avoid contact or implying he is afraid, business decision is a bit harsh....

I just think he has a hard time disengaging from blockers.....which is a major concern.

And

Why I prefer him after a trade down

In comment 14856875 AdamBrag said:

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Simmons is being used as a north-south linebacker in the NFL, he's being used wrong. His two best traits are coverage and his sideline to sideline tackling ability. Both of those are extremely valuable traits in the NFL.

Then he should be a FS

my chances. It would be nice for QBs to think, “where the fuck is this guy attacking from?”

curious. How come a draft report such as this one doesn't mention anything about his lack of toughness? I don't know either way and wouldn't mind a clip like someone requested above that shows some of his softness.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/isaiah-simmons/y6TJzAJbpC

Giants will evaluate him. I do see crazy speed to the tackle. I do see a ball hawk.

In comment 14856925 dslayton86 said:

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curious. How come a draft report such as this one doesn't mention anything about his lack of toughness? I don't know either way and wouldn't mind a clip like someone requested above that shows some of his softness. https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/isaiah-simmons/y6TJzAJbpC

Great question. Here's a few pieces every one who's not sure about Isaiah Simmons being the absolute choice for the Giants at #4 should review. His improvement in his 2nd year as a LB is evident.

Riddick is on point with his assessment..... "ESPN's Louis Riddick says he has a feeling there will be a change in management by season's end if the Giants don't pick Simmons.

"This guy fits everything they absolutely need on the defensive side," Riddick said. "They do not have pass rushers. They don't have linebackers who can run and cover like him. And they have no one in the secondary who can come close to matching his overall physical ability can be. He can play two-to-three positions in the secondary and all three linebacker positions and he can rush the passer if you needed him too -- although that's not really what his forte is.



Read more: https://www.tigernet.com/update/ESPN-analysts-break-down-Isaiah-Simmons-as-top-4-NFL-draft-pick-35254#ixzz6IS68MRt6

2019:
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/athletic-freak-and-swiss-army-knife--isaiah-simmons

2020:
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/isaiah-simmons/y6TJzAJbpC


ESPN Commentary
https://www.tigernet.com/update/ESPN-analysts-break-down-Isaiah-Simmons-as-top-4-NFL-draft-pick-35254?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TigernetClemsonUpdates+%28TigerNet.com+-+Clemson+Tiger+Updates%29

230lbs not a surprise he is a little afraid of contact. Guys are all bigger than him. RBs are as big as he is. Getting hit at that size over and over will be a issue for injuries. That said he is a great prospect with more weight if he doesn't lose speed would be the solution. It is just hard to draft a guy at 4 no matter who he is. You most get it right or its a big mistake.

What I will say is he got away from a lot of over-pursuit at Clemson because he was so damn athletic he just could recover and get the tackle anyway. However, that athleticism/speed gap narrows in the NFL.

I think he's a terrific blitzer, and you can employ him as a QB spy which is really helpful in some games. Remember the Arizona Cardinals game last year and what Kyler Murray did to us?

I think people focus on the coverage ability so much, and that's fine, but he's really a multi-dimensional defensive weapon.

I actually think I might like him more than Chase Young.

In comment 14856870 Rjanyg said:

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In comment 14856867 eric2425ny said: Quote: that we are a fan base accustomed to the best linebacker play in NFL history for those that have been Giants fans for long enough. I mean LT played with a separated shoulder. On another occasion he literally beat the Lions on his own back in the day, a game he was questionable to play in due to injury no less. Can you imagine that happening in today’s NFL? Simmons is a unique player that can be placed in a variety of positions and can excel. It’s a much different game than it used to be. More about speed and versatility than strength and nastiness. And Taylor had the speed, versatility, strength, and nastiness for the record. Best player of all time. I think Simmons will be a player, but don’t expect that nasty streak past players have exemplified. I don’t think you will see that too much in the future from many players. Total truth. I do think Simmons is both worth the 4th pick and will be a great pro, but he won’t be LT. Nobody will be.

As I speculated/asked in another thread - he may not be another LT in ferocity, guts etc, but could he be another LT in shifting a position's paradigm?

His coverage really is not that impressive, and really have a bad feeling if a RB like Barkley, McCaffrey ran into him in the open field he’d get burned and Dobbins 68 yard TD Simmons looked like he misread it. Misreads happen but also LSU, Burrow escaped Simmons rushes several times. That’s really not a 4th overall pick imo. Granted nitpicking and every player has bad games, but against the only 2 good teams Clemson faced he didn’t play well.

In comment 14856960 mdthedream said:

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230lbs not a surprise he is a little afraid of contact. Guys are all bigger than him. RBs are as big as he is. Getting hit at that size over and over will be a issue for injuries. That said he is a great prospect with more weight if he doesn't lose speed would be the solution. It is just hard to draft a guy at 4 no matter who he is. You most get it right or its a big mistake.

Combine weight was 238. Or 15 lbs heavier than Jaylon Smith weighed at the combine. He'll probably play at 240 lbs.

- Judge

You just said the guy is one of the 99.9% physically gifted players to ever enter in NFL and already the best cover LB in league

But

He had 104 tackles, 14 TAckles for Loss and 7 sacks

It seems like he hit alot of people for a guy who likes to avoid contact.

In comment 14856911 Tuckrule said:

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He’s an athlete not a football players. Wide hashes in college allowed him much more space and freedom to roam. In the nfl it’s much tighter and the athletes are the best of the best and most are physical and have that mentality. Simmons lacks toughness. You can’t teach that. Good luck when he goes to tackle Zeke. He’ll run him right over along with many of the tight ends in this league. Simmons is lean. I don’t care if he’s 238. Look at his body. Small hips slender frame. He will struggle at the next level. I don’t see a top 10 pick but I’m in the minority. Again, he’s Taylor mays in my eyes.

BINGO!!! Great athlete does not necessarily = Great Football Player. ANd as JonC has pointed out, Simmons is a chaser. Chasers arent inpact palyers in the NFL.

Venables is an outstanding DC and exploits opponents weaknesses. His game plans may have called for Simmons to ‘stay clean’ and be available to make plays all over but in counterpoint, the ACC was subpar on talent last year ... aside from Clemson players, there may not be anyone else from the ACC drafted before day 3.

Simmmons seems like a perfect match for defensive scheme that changes week to week depending upon the opponent.

Plays like Jane.

If indeed the OP S conclusion is shared by those who evaluate these talents for a living

In comment 14856925 dslayton86 said:

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curious. How come a draft report such as this one doesn't mention anything about his lack of toughness? I don't know either way and wouldn't mind a clip like someone requested above that shows some of his softness. https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/isaiah-simmons/y6TJzAJbpC

Because that outfit - draftnetwork - is utter garbage. Bunch of internet savvy youngstas without 15 mins of professional scouting experience among the whole lot of them.

Look up the various members' credentials: bright kids, internet savvy, love football. Nothing else.

The guy made 21 plays last year behind the line of scrimmage

14 TFLs and 7 sacks.

The idea that he is just a chaser down the field and avoids contact and can’t be played up front does not match the facts,

Why don’t you post a game, and chart all these instances of business decision on the All 22, so we can verify what you’re talking about.

Otherwise we’re just going to think you don’t like the guy

In comment 14856990 US1 Giants said:

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Simmmons seems like a perfect match for defensive scheme that changes week to week depending upon the opponent.

Everyone who likes Simmons refers to Judge's statements regarding multiplicity.

They seem to have glanced over the statements Judge made about playing historic NY Giants football again, his statements about being physical and hard nosed.

IIRC, Judge emphasized physical play
more than once before he mentioned "multiple."

I think people overrate his coverage ability and underrate his block shed and ability to get to the ball carrier in the box.

Coverage-wise, he's really good in zone as you might expect for someone of his speed, smarts, and instincts. And he has all three in abundance.

But in man coverage he can get beat with good route running (not up the seam, though, he'd have to pull a hammy to get beat up the seam).

I really, really want an OT, but Simmons is the one guy I would probably take over the OT. He will change a defense.

In comment 14857013 twostepgiants said:

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The guy made 21 plays last year behind the line of scrimmage 14 TFLs and 7 sacks. The idea that he is just a chaser down the field and avoids contact and can’t be played up front does not match the facts,

View the link. I don’t see the pass rush ability.
Every IS sack, INT, TFL 2019 - ( New Window )

This is BBI and you have been here long enough to know that people will cherrypick comments to frame/support their argument.

haven't been able to do since LT wasn't on the team and regarding LB coverage of running backs and TE just doesn't strike me as being made into a greater issue than it was or is.

You would think that the Giants haven't won a Super Bowl since 1991.

Or have they. How could they have ever done that without covering running backs or TE's?

If the Giants did draft him, I don’t think it’ll be because they think he will be Von Miller or Khalil Mack.

There are many reasons they could draft him, the most important are allowing the defense the ability to not substitute out of the base defense, freeing up Peppers to not be the only guy who can cover a TE, shutting down all qb spy, qb zone read, and bootleg action. You can disguise who is coming on a blitz better if there are more players that can cover on the field.

These are some of the schematic advantages

In comment 14856926 Giant John said:

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Giants will evaluate him. I do see crazy speed to the tackle. I do see a ball hawk.

It has been so long since we had legitimate LBs on this team most people on this Board have forgotten what it means. All we have had are slow plodding players. This guy has a gear we have not seen for a while. He is no LT but no one is.

And I watched his entire career, every play, was an all out attacking player who was fast, big, and strong, if you used him to to drop back into coverage you were misusing him, he dropped back into coverage at times to cross up the other team and he was so smart and talented, he would make a play, plus he just did things on his own he was so good. This player would be a coverage guy who also attack the QB, can we fit a guy on the team that could have 5 int's and 7 sacks? No lets take a tackle that may not beat out the guys we have, all things fair and equal. LT also had a non stop motor with off the chart intellegence and heart. We all don't know what is inside these guys, watch LT play for dumb ass Rod Rust, a coach can ruin a players spirit. I hope we now have the coach that will coach to a players stregnth.

In comment 14857025 cosmicj said:

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In comment 14857013 twostepgiants said: Quote: The guy made 21 plays last year behind the line of scrimmage 14 TFLs and 7 sacks. The idea that he is just a chaser down the field and avoids contact and can’t be played up front does not match the facts, View the link. I don’t see the pass rush ability. Every IS sack, INT, TFL 2019 - ( New Window )

He is not a stand at the line of scrimmage ER. He is an attack from mid level LB.

Could not get Barkley the ball in space, he ran him off tackle on 1 leg, this entire team gets a pass, lets see what happens when they bring a blocking tight end to help out the tackles a little, fucking moron coach.

for many reasons. And it's not exaggerating at all to say covering the Tight End adequately is near the top of that list.