putting the deal aside, Williams is very good DT and he's only 25. Keep him and use the draft choice for Simmons or a OT, fix those spots. Replacing Williams with Brown is at best using our #1 to tread water talent wise.
Look, I like Williams, I really do. But for weeks posters have screamed they like him at around $12M per and if he were to be paid at or around $17M then DG should be fired or worse. So the premise is to pay the Edge $17M (not sniffing Yannick for less than $20M) and draft a cost controlled Derek Brown. If we are going to pursue an Edge, we are going to have to pay.
Why do we have to rescind the tag on Leonard Williams
To me the reality is this team is likely to be improved, but not enough to make the playoffs in 2020. I have to make decisions for 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. I have holes everywhere which I know won't be 100% filled come training camp.
If I've set a value on a player, I'm sticking to it. Giants made him an offer and they're probably sticking to it. Fans tend to yell do something, anything, and fail to realize their team isn't the only one playing the negotiation game, and/or what the bigger picture is.
I get the appeal, but the target isn't a do or die one. I think DG realizes he can't afford anymore Solders, and doesn't want to make a Vernon-type mistake. Hopefully, he'll realize his move to acquire LW was also him overrating a player.
Whats it going to take for you all to see that Clowney is overrated.
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If we could get Clowney on a multi year deal at around $17M
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
Thats the point. If you're going to rescind Williams' tag...why then are you going to waste that money on Clowney?
for Williams durability, and Clowney's lack thereof.
I agree with this. I’m honestly not a huge fan of either player. I think they were both highly overrated when drafted which has proven itself out in the early stages of their careers. They are good players, but not great. At least Williams has stayed healthy so far.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If we could get Clowney on a multi year deal at around $17M
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
No because Williams doesn't have the lazy/disengaged rep that CLowney does. I wasn't a fan of the trade, but he did play well. And Williams didn't have the benefit of playing next to JJ Watt.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If we could get Clowney on a multi year deal at around $17M
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
Thats the point. If you're going to rescind Williams' tag...why then are you going to waste that money on Clowney?
Because they play different positions and run stopping DT's are easier to replace. Especially if Brown is what many think he is...one of the best DT's to come out in years. Clowney, is as good as Williams at stopping the run and has far superior upside as a pass rusher for the same money, give or take 1M. (I acknowledge: hard take to defend based on past performance)
I forget which year it was but he was playing out of his TREE during HOU's stretch run. He was better than Watt and absolutely unblockable.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
I forget which year it was but he was playing out of his TREE during HOU's stretch run. He was better than Watt and absolutely unblockable.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
I don’t think it’s an issue of skill with Clowney. There’s a reason he was so highly regarded coming out of high school and college. It’s more of a consistency factor with him, whether that’s lack of interest, intelligence, I have no idea.
Clowney was never the best defensive player in the league, and never dominant for long stretches. Dominant means he's blowing up the run, he's sacking the QB, he's forcing turnovers and wreaking havoc. He flashes at times, he's learned that hustle is important, he is disruptive and plays the run well, but rarely gets to the QB, and he disappears.
Throw in all the well-known questions on his work ethic, health, etc, and tell me he's really worth the investment. It doesn't make sense.
i get your hesitance with Clowney, I really do. Bottom line is, the defense needs good football players. We don't have a lot of them. Signing Clowney for a year, or even two, with the way our cap is structured right now, would be smart IMO. He had a down year last year. Look at his 17 and 18 seasons. That's a near elite level.
People love Yannick on this board. Clowney at his best is better.
i think there's a difference between saying "the league doesn't value" Clowney vs saying they want him at a fair price. A lot of teams would want Clowney, they obviously aren't willing to pay what he wants. Huge difference.
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
i think there's a difference between saying "the league doesn't value" Clowney vs saying they want him at a fair price. A lot of teams would want Clowney, they obviously aren't willing to pay what he wants. Huge difference.
How much did the league value him when he got traded in August? Almost the exact same price as a comp pick. At the time I (and many others probably) were surprised the price was so low for a player who could be "the final piece" for a contender. Now he has no market as a UFA.
I think it's fair to say the league values him wildly differently than both how he values himself as well as casual observers.
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
I forget which year it was but he was playing out of his TREE during HOU's stretch run. He was better than Watt and absolutely unblockable.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
It is accurate. Look, I don't care how talented you are - the best ability is availability. The fact that you even need to caveat with "when he's healthy and focused" should speak volumes, and its the reason he's still sitting out there on the open market. Teams don't want to pay him all that money and just *hope* he finally decides to turn it on for 16 games straight at age 27.
If you want to dump Leonard, I get it. But you don't then go and sign another underachiever at essentially the same price. Thats ridiculous.
I'd much rather them just bring back Golden at about half the investment.
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
Calais Campbell brought a #5, and he's a far superior player, despite his advanced age.
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
Calais Campbell brought a #5, and he's a far superior player, despite his advanced age.
Campbell is older as you note. I think he problem as you also state is that Tomlinson will be a FA next year, and likely want a big deal. So how much will teams pay for what amounts to a one year rental? It's like a smaller version of trading for Williams. Maybe a #4 and a player like a promising OL. Of course, teams probably don't want to part with anyone who looks like they can play, especially in that position group. My guess is that Tomlinson stays a Giant.
worst thing this team could do right now is take an adequate to average OT at #4. If one of these guys is a an immediate plug and play RT with the great chance to kick over to LT and thrive, I'm all for it. But the draft is about BPA when the need is also there.
If Simmons or Brown is far and away the superior player to any of the OL, the choice is pretty clear.
I watch the guy on film and look at all his numbers. Very good football player. Not as good as Williams, but good enough to make the trade a head scratcher.
This will be his 3rd DC - there's a lot to be said for good coaching and stability.
Not a difference maker but he just started playing next to a solid DT, NT. Prior to that, he had minimal quality help.
The B. J. Hill fall-off makes me wonder how much coaching has been a major issue
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
If the Tomlinson is not in the team's plans on a second contract at any price, then a #5 is not too low. He doesn't need to be moved in the draft. We can use him and entertain trades up to the trade deadline. Once that passes, then we let him walk. Of course, the anti-DG brigade will be out in force wondering why we didn't trade Tomlinson for a bag of donuts.
I watch the guy on film and look at all his numbers. Very good football player. Not as good as Williams, but good enough to make the trade a head scratcher.
This will be his 3rd DC - there's a lot to be said for good coaching and stability.
Not a difference maker but he just started playing next to a solid DT, NT. Prior to that, he had minimal quality help.
The B. J. Hill fall-off makes me wonder how much coaching has been a major issue
I think it comes down to dollars and what DT feels he can attract on the open market. At time goes on, NYG won't be able to keep all the DL on second contracts, so who goes.
for a 5th rounder? Those don’t seem to go together.
If value on Tomlinson is only a 5 then shouldn’t be that worried as to his contract demands.
You can't just equivocate the draft value with contract demands. Calais fetched a 5th. Even though he is older, he 3x the player Tomlinson is. Calais was scheduled to earn $15M. With the trade to Baltimore, they reworked the deal (essentially converting $10M into a signing bonus with a $5M salary). He still gets $15M this year and next year has a $10M salary. Tomlinson not being the in team's plans can be as simple as the Stink of Jerry. Get what you can and move on.
RE: Screw Clowney I've never seen a player more overhyped...
2017 and 2018 years, one of the more productive defensive players in football. 2017, 2nd in the NFL in TFL. 2018, 11th in the NFL in TFL. How is that not production? People love to rag on Clowney, dude is a beast at his best.
Good points but not compelling particularly with LW on one year gig
But, if I had to bet, I don't think he gets a second contract.
I'd be surprised. He's a Reese tenure holdover, and I wouldn't say he's distinguished himself. DG so far drafted larger, longer DL who can play in multiple fronts, whereas Tomlinson is basically a template 4-3 DT.
Physically frame and length wise he and BJ Hill are twins. 6'3"/311#/33" arms. Very similar in that regard. Personally I think Tomlinson played well last season. Certainly better than Hill.
New regime and all so it's difficult to predict how the coaches will see it. I'll wait to see how these guys are used before guessing about him coming back or not.
I forget which year it was but he was playing out of his TREE during HOU's stretch run. He was better than Watt and absolutely unblockable.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
So one year makes him some star? He was the # 1 HS recruit. He was so much more talented than anyone else is college do news the first round 1 pick. He’s played one stretch run like that guy. One.
He’s s exactly a big name who has never come close to his talent or rep
You acknowledge that he did have a stretch of play at that level and then said he NEVER played at that level. My only point was that he absolutely had reached a dominant level of play in the NFL. For whatever reason that was (coaching, health, head in the game) I don't know.
Lots of guys are like that - JPP in 2011, Collins in 16. Then we don't see it again. Hard to explain.
Look, I like Williams, I really do. But for weeks posters have screamed they like him at around $12M per and if he were to be paid at or around $17M then DG should be fired or worse. So the premise is to pay the Edge $17M (not sniffing Yannick for less than $20M) and draft a cost controlled Derek Brown. If we are going to pursue an Edge, we are going to have to pay.
You just take him,and than you'll get a big smile on you're face.
If I've set a value on a player, I'm sticking to it. Giants made him an offer and they're probably sticking to it. Fans tend to yell do something, anything, and fail to realize their team isn't the only one playing the negotiation game, and/or what the bigger picture is.
I get the appeal, but the target isn't a do or die one. I think DG realizes he can't afford anymore Solders, and doesn't want to make a Vernon-type mistake. Hopefully, he'll realize his move to acquire LW was also him overrating a player.
His level of play and impact on a game by game basis, factoring in individual talent and availability, is not that far off from Leonard Williams.
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
Quote:
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
Thats the point. If you're going to rescind Williams' tag...why then are you going to waste that money on Clowney?
I agree with this. I’m honestly not a huge fan of either player. I think they were both highly overrated when drafted which has proven itself out in the early stages of their careers. They are good players, but not great. At least Williams has stayed healthy so far.
Quote:
In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
No because Williams doesn't have the lazy/disengaged rep that CLowney does. I wasn't a fan of the trade, but he did play well. And Williams didn't have the benefit of playing next to JJ Watt.
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In comment 14857184 Victor in CT said:
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In comment 14857105 Section331 said:
[quote] In comment 14856951 KingBlue said:
Quote:
Section, I can't argue that he has under performed and won't. But I did see a disruptive player at EDge in the 2019 playoffs. His potential to solve a major positional problem and add to an already talented defensive front is worth the risk at a reasonable $17M per year, IMHO.
I'm dubious about signing a guy who has underachieved to a big contract and expecting him to perform like he did in the playoffs of a contract year. [uote]
YES. Spot on
Couldn't you claim the same about Williams,i.e., a guy who has underachieved relative to his draft position status?
Thats the point. If you're going to rescind Williams' tag...why then are you going to waste that money on Clowney?
Because they play different positions and run stopping DT's are easier to replace. Especially if Brown is what many think he is...one of the best DT's to come out in years. Clowney, is as good as Williams at stopping the run and has far superior upside as a pass rusher for the same money, give or take 1M. (I acknowledge: hard take to defend based on past performance)
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
I don’t think it’s an issue of skill with Clowney. There’s a reason he was so highly regarded coming out of high school and college. It’s more of a consistency factor with him, whether that’s lack of interest, intelligence, I have no idea.
Throw in all the well-known questions on his work ethic, health, etc, and tell me he's really worth the investment. It doesn't make sense.
People love Yannick on this board. Clowney at his best is better.
Quote:
Overrating Williams and underrating Tomlinson
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Quote:
In comment 14857224 bc4life said:
Quote:
Overrating Williams and underrating Tomlinson
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
How much did the league value him when he got traded in August? Almost the exact same price as a comp pick. At the time I (and many others probably) were surprised the price was so low for a player who could be "the final piece" for a contender. Now he has no market as a UFA.
I think it's fair to say the league values him wildly differently than both how he values himself as well as casual observers.
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In comment 14857275 JonC said:
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In comment 14857224 bc4life said:
Quote:
Overrating Williams and underrating Tomlinson
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
It is accurate. Look, I don't care how talented you are - the best ability is availability. The fact that you even need to caveat with "when he's healthy and focused" should speak volumes, and its the reason he's still sitting out there on the open market. Teams don't want to pay him all that money and just *hope* he finally decides to turn it on for 16 games straight at age 27.
If you want to dump Leonard, I get it. But you don't then go and sign another underachiever at essentially the same price. Thats ridiculous.
I'd much rather them just bring back Golden at about half the investment.
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In comment 14857309 AcidTest said:
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In comment 14857275 JonC said:
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In comment 14857224 bc4life said:
Quote:
Overrating Williams and underrating Tomlinson
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
Calais Campbell brought a #5, and he's a far superior player, despite his advanced age.
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In comment 14857311 JonC said:
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In comment 14857309 AcidTest said:
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In comment 14857275 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14857224 bc4life said:
Quote:
Overrating Williams and underrating Tomlinson
He's being trying to trade Tomlinson for awhile. The guy isn't a difference maker, and the second pro contract is coming due.
Do you think Tomlinson could be traded on draft day? I assume if he's been trying to do so, then the price has just been too low. What would he accept?
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
Calais Campbell brought a #5, and he's a far superior player, despite his advanced age.
Campbell is older as you note. I think he problem as you also state is that Tomlinson will be a FA next year, and likely want a big deal. So how much will teams pay for what amounts to a one year rental? It's like a smaller version of trading for Williams. Maybe a #4 and a player like a promising OL. Of course, teams probably don't want to part with anyone who looks like they can play, especially in that position group. My guess is that Tomlinson stays a Giant.
Pretty much.
Everyone wants to upgrade the offensive line but no one wants to make the necessary investment.
If Simmons or Brown is far and away the superior player to any of the OL, the choice is pretty clear.
This will be his 3rd DC - there's a lot to be said for good coaching and stability.
Not a difference maker but he just started playing next to a solid DT, NT. Prior to that, he had minimal quality help.
The B. J. Hill fall-off makes me wonder how much coaching has been a major issue
Quote:
Haven't heard any details on him. My guess is you're looking at maybe getting a #5 for him. Maybe DG could find a team with a promising OT to swap.
That's too low. I can't see trading Tomlinson for a #5. I'd need more.
If the Tomlinson is not in the team's plans on a second contract at any price, then a #5 is not too low. He doesn't need to be moved in the draft. We can use him and entertain trades up to the trade deadline. Once that passes, then we let him walk. Of course, the anti-DG brigade will be out in force wondering why we didn't trade Tomlinson for a bag of donuts.
This will be his 3rd DC - there's a lot to be said for good coaching and stability.
Not a difference maker but he just started playing next to a solid DT, NT. Prior to that, he had minimal quality help.
The B. J. Hill fall-off makes me wonder how much coaching has been a major issue
I think it comes down to dollars and what DT feels he can attract on the open market. At time goes on, NYG won't be able to keep all the DL on second contracts, so who goes.
If value on Tomlinson is only a 5 then shouldn’t be that worried as to his contract demands.
If value on Tomlinson is only a 5 then shouldn’t be that worried as to his contract demands.
You can't just equivocate the draft value with contract demands. Calais fetched a 5th. Even though he is older, he 3x the player Tomlinson is. Calais was scheduled to earn $15M. With the trade to Baltimore, they reworked the deal (essentially converting $10M into a signing bonus with a $5M salary). He still gets $15M this year and next year has a $10M salary. Tomlinson not being the in team's plans can be as simple as the Stink of Jerry. Get what you can and move on.
2017 and 2018 years, one of the more productive defensive players in football. 2017, 2nd in the NFL in TFL. 2018, 11th in the NFL in TFL. How is that not production? People love to rag on Clowney, dude is a beast at his best.
I'd be surprised. He's a Reese tenure holdover, and I wouldn't say he's distinguished himself. DG so far drafted larger, longer DL who can play in multiple fronts, whereas Tomlinson is basically a template 4-3 DT.
New regime and all so it's difficult to predict how the coaches will see it. I'll wait to see how these guys are used before guessing about him coming back or not.
I realize he has been unable to maintain that level of play but he was the best defensive player in the league at that point. I appreciate that level of dominance.
So for those that say he is just a name, that isn't accurate. When he's healthy and focused he is a dominant football player vs. the run AND pass, a la Strahan and JPP.
So one year makes him some star? He was the # 1 HS recruit. He was so much more talented than anyone else is college do news the first round 1 pick. He’s played one stretch run like that guy. One.
He’s s exactly a big name who has never come close to his talent or rep
You acknowledge that he did have a stretch of play at that level and then said he NEVER played at that level. My only point was that he absolutely had reached a dominant level of play in the NFL. For whatever reason that was (coaching, health, head in the game) I don't know.
Lots of guys are like that - JPP in 2011, Collins in 16. Then we don't see it again. Hard to explain.