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Raanan: Golden unlikely to return

Defenderdawg : 4/2/2020 8:18 am
“It certainly doesn't appear the Giants were an option at anywhere near that asking price. And New York signed outside linebacker Kyler Fackrell for one year and $4.6 million. The Giants' plan from there was to add another pass-rusher at a lower price point than Golden desired. It seems unlikely Golden and the Giants will be a financial fit this offseason.
So Golden is expected to be patient in his second crack at free agency.
"The $10 million is gone. Don't think he's getting [$8 million]. But it won't be too far off," said another source with knowledge of the NFL's market for edge rushers.”

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It “SEEMS” unlikely.  
Big Blue '56 : 4/2/2020 8:20 am : link
Ok.
Hmmm  
UGADawgs7 : 4/2/2020 8:51 am : link
It “seems unlikely.” But DG opened up $10M in space and yes a few months ago it came out that DG said he wanted to go into the season with close to $20M in space. Who knows if this is all that was, or if the fact Clowney has lowered his ask maybe he goes for him, maybe goes for Yannick? Maybe after the draft Golden signs 1 year $6.5M? Just a feeling that DG isn’t going to want to go into a season where his job may be on the line if they don’t go at least 7-9 with one Edge rusher on the team. Hard to rely on a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players to all of a sudden step up to the point you want them to be in their 3-4th seasons. Fackrell knows Graham and his system we all know that, but if there’s nobody else to help him out on the other side of the ball getting 8-10 sacks, can be rough on the DBs.
He is nice high energy, high effort but  
George from PA : 4/2/2020 8:52 am : link
By no means is he a game wreaker
Despite the headline just to be clear  
Defenderdawg : 4/2/2020 9:01 am : link
Jordan Raanan
⁦‪@JordanRaanan‬⁩


Connecting the dots on this one considering Giants haven’t shown a desire to put significant money into any of these edge rushers in free agency so far
It would seem  
fkap : 4/2/2020 9:33 am : link
that NYG is still a good fit for a prove it deal, or a settle back to reality spot.

I don't think either side burned any bridges.

While it's going to be a different scheme, he should still have a good chance to make a good contribution, especially if an edge isn't drafted.

It may be tough for him to swallow after not having his dollar figure met, but I assume the Giants still hold respect for him.
I agree with not retaining Golden at that price  
UConn4523 : 4/2/2020 9:36 am : link
sans a 1 year deal. The quality of edge rushers available right now just isn't there and the market agrees. Get bargains, and focus on mixing up your scheme to compensate. No reason at all to pay top dollar for anyone right now.
It probably depends on how the draft goes  
ZogZerg : 4/2/2020 9:36 am : link
for some of these teams, including the Giants.
I just dont understand  
BlueManCrew : 4/2/2020 9:57 am : link
How we could let a 10 sack producer with 27 qb hits walk. Especially when we have absolutely nothing else at the position. Why create another hole we have to fill when nothing is certain in the draft? If Fackrell has a big year, great. We need more than one competent pass rusher.
...  
christian : 4/2/2020 10:00 am : link
The Giants probably need to make a couple of cap moves if they intend on signing someone significant. I volunteer cutting Solder and Tate = )

If OTC is close, the Giants have ~18.5M in space. The draft pool is ~12M, and ~8M of that will count towards the top 51.

Basically as it stands the Giants have ~10M in space. This is basically in line with the comment Gettleman made about needing ~20M to address the draft pool and have flexibility going in to the season.
RE: I just dont understand  
christian : 4/2/2020 10:06 am : link
In comment 14857082 BlueManCrew said:
Quote:
How we could let a 10 sack producer with 27 qb hits walk. Especially when we have absolutely nothing else at the position. Why create another hole we have to fill when nothing is certain in the draft? If Fackrell has a big year, great. We need more than one competent pass rusher.


There's a school of thought Golden is replacement level and the Giants swap in a mid skill player and get the same results.

I think there is an element of truth there, but I also feel his inside pass rush is underappreciated.

Gettleman has spent 3rd round picks in consecutive years on pass rush linebackers, it's probably time to test if one of them can be the 2nd edge rusher.
RE: I just dont understand  
Section331 : 4/2/2020 10:09 am : link
In comment 14857082 BlueManCrew said:
Quote:
How we could let a 10 sack producer with 27 qb hits walk. Especially when we have absolutely nothing else at the position. Why create another hole we have to fill when nothing is certain in the draft? If Fackrell has a big year, great. We need more than one competent pass rusher.


I agree with this. Yeah, we all understand Golden's limitations, but he can get to the QB, and we are starving for that. At the beginning of FA, most of us thought he would command more than $10M/yr, getting him at $8M is a bargain, IMO.
I understand wanting to get a premium edge rusher  
GiantBlue : 4/2/2020 10:10 am : link
but at what point do teams say....let's look at the draft for cheaper options we can develop and the musical chairs ends with several looking outside-in.

While Clowney has shown he can be a game wrecker (Look at that Eagle playoff game), I agree that Golden is not in that realm.

However, Golden was there game in and game out and played with more consistency.

At this point, I agree with DG that the dollars need to come down before he will write a check.
Golden is flawed  
Reale01 : 4/2/2020 10:45 am : link
Most point to sack and QB hits and I do appreciate his effort. HOWEVER, it seemed to me that there were many times last year when he ran himself out of the play by being pushed behind the QB in an effort to get a sack. The QB escaped inside pressure, rolled out and made big plays.

IMO - He was all about the sack and did not pay much attention to his "contain" responsibilities.

Given the mobile QBs in our division I would draft edge guys who could contain and get occasional pressure. I would focus on interior lineman with ability to penetrate and pass rush. This would force the QB into the waiting arms of the "contain rushers on the edge.
RE: He is nice high energy, high effort but  
Mdgiantsfan : 4/2/2020 11:12 am : link
In comment 14857014 George from PA said:
Quote:
By no means is he a game wreaker


While true, he was by far our most effective pass rusher. We made no moves to acquire one and the draft is bereft of impact ERs outside of Chase Young. In a passing league, this is not optimal.
I guess I have a very different attitude toward Gettleman and his  
Reese's Pieces : 4/2/2020 11:30 am : link
strategy. He has a team that's become a bottom-feeder. A team that people laugh at. He has to show progress with the team this year or he is looking for work.

A pass rush desperately needed to give the team some swagger in addition to getting to the passer. He hasn't used a 1st or 2nd on a pass rusher and he hasn't signed any name free agents. Although he did let one go in JPP who in 26 games with the Bucks has 21 sacks and 23 stuffs.

I know. No one here is going to say that the Giants should have kept him even if they think so. But in his last two years with the Giants in 28 games there were 15 sacks, 5 forced fumbles and 13 pass defenses. The Bucs signed him to a two year $26 million dollar contract, although I'm sure much less than that is guaranteed.

Gettleman has the money and two players out there in Golden and Clowney but he doesn't want to overspend on them. Some players are underpaid and some are overpaid. The same as in the business world.

The object of the game is to win, and to save your job, not to drive the hardest bargains.
I have no problem with not bringing Golden back,  
Dave in Hoboken : 4/2/2020 11:33 am : link
especially if he's going to get overpaid.

But man, people thought our pass rush last year (and the years before that) were bad. It could be even worse this year, which is hard to fathom, but here we are. Woof.
I like Golden for his effort and unrelenting play (at times)  
mpinmaine : 4/2/2020 11:35 am : link
but from watching the games he gets washed out vs the run.
Give  
TommyWiseau : 4/2/2020 12:04 pm : link
Clowney
Give  
TommyWiseau : 4/2/2020 12:05 pm : link
Clowney a 2 or 3 year deal filled with incentives. Games played, sacks, etc.
Clowney  
ryanmkeane : 4/2/2020 12:19 pm : link
is a better football player than Golden, and it really ain't close. The deciding factor would be, would you rather pay half the cost for Golden.
No matter what happens Gettleman will not be looking for work...  
NYRiese : 4/2/2020 12:22 pm : link
he will retire and enjoy his golden years.
RE: I have no problem with not bringing Golden back,  
LI NHB : 4/2/2020 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14857221 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
especially if he's going to get overpaid.

But man, people thought our pass rush last year (and the years before that) were bad. It could be even worse this year, which is hard to fathom, but here we are. Woof.


WE HAVE NOT HAD THE DRAFT YET GUY.

Since when are seasons won and/or lost due to FA? That's the Dan Snyder school of team building...
RE: RE: I have no problem with not bringing Golden back,  
Dave in Hoboken : 4/2/2020 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14857303 LI NHB said:
Quote:
In comment 14857221 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


especially if he's going to get overpaid.

But man, people thought our pass rush last year (and the years before that) were bad. It could be even worse this year, which is hard to fathom, but here we are. Woof.



WE HAVE NOT HAD THE DRAFT YET GUY.

Since when are seasons won and/or lost due to FA? That's the Dan Snyder school of team building...


And what rookie DE are you expecting to come in THIS YEAR and dominate in their first year? Pay attention.
I get the feeling they honestly believe  
montanagiant : 4/2/2020 1:36 pm : link
That Chase Young is going to fall to them. That 3 QB's go first and he's there at 4
RE: I get the feeling they honestly believe  
Saquads26 : 4/2/2020 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14857375 montanagiant said:
Quote:
That Chase Young is going to fall to them. That 3 QB's go first and he's there at 4


There is no chance that happens. None
RE: Give  
section125 : 4/2/2020 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14857270 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
Clowney a 2 or 3 year deal filled with incentives. Games played, sacks, etc.


He is not going to sign for incentives. He wants to be paid.
RE: RE: I get the feeling they honestly believe  
Festina Lente : 4/2/2020 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14857390 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 14857375 montanagiant said:


Quote:


That Chase Young is going to fall to them. That 3 QB's go first and he's there at 4



There is no chance that happens. None


This. Anyone who thinks this can happen is kidding themselves
RE: RE: RE: I have no problem with not bringing Golden back,  
LI NHB : 4/2/2020 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14857308 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
And what rookie DE are you expecting to come in THIS YEAR and dominate in their first year? Pay attention.


Wait a second... so are you suggesting rookies can't have an impact in their first year? The only way to generate a pass rush is by signing free agents?

We have 2nd year guys in OX coming back in addition to guys like Fackrel who were brought in specifically for that purpose. Then you have the draft to bring in more edge talent... but yeah I guess you're right we should pack it in and get ready for 2021.
"But DG opened up $10M in space"  
Torrag : 4/2/2020 2:50 pm : link
He really didn't. We have to set aside $14M for our Draft pool. That currently leaves about $7M and some of that will have to be kept for operations during the season.

We can certainly free up more cap space if we decide to but the recent activity wasn't about Golden.
RE:  
LI NHB : 4/2/2020 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14857459 Torrag said:
Quote:
We can certainly free up more cap space if we decide to but the recent activity wasn't about Golden.


One easy way would be to come to an agreement with LW... Let's get that done and see where we're at.
I don’t think Golden is a game wrecker  
Ned In Atlanta : 4/2/2020 3:07 pm : link
But the idea that Fackrell is a shoe in to replicate his production is foolish
RE:  
christian : 4/2/2020 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14857459 Torrag said:
Quote:
He really didn't. We have to set aside $14M for our Draft pool. That currently leaves about $7M and some of that will have to be kept for operations during the season.

We can certainly free up more cap space if we decide to but the recent activity wasn't about Golden.


After the bonus structures with the UFAs the Giants have $18,247,625.

The projected total draft pool is $12,120,327, but only the first four picks as of now would count against the top 51. So only $8,832,513 would count against the cap.

Essentially, with the draft picks considered the Giants have $9,415,112.

The Giants could probably sign one more low end free agent and still have enough buffer to go into the season, but I agree it's not what Golden is looking for.

Round 1, Pick #4 $5,937,724
Round 2, Pick #36 $1,452,868
Round 3, Pick #99 $728,064
Round 4, Pick #110 $713,857
Round 5, Pick #150 $599,365
Round 6, Pick #183 $561,065
Round 7, Pick #218 $537,585
Round 7, Pick #238 $530,931
Round 7, Pick #247 $529,434
Round 7, Pick #255 $529,434
RE: RE: RE: RE: I have no problem with not bringing Golden back,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/2/2020 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14857440 LI NHB said:
Quote:
In comment 14857308 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


And what rookie DE are you expecting to come in THIS YEAR and dominate in their first year? Pay attention.



Wait a second... so are you suggesting rookies can't have an impact in their first year? The only way to generate a pass rush is by signing free agents?

We have 2nd year guys in OX coming back in addition to guys like Fackrel who were brought in specifically for that purpose. Then you have the draft to bring in more edge talent... but yeah I guess you're right we should pack it in and get ready for 2021.


This point would hit home a lot harder if the Giants havent had a horrible pass rush for about 5 years. It's not that easy. This is why proven pass rushers are the next highest paid players to quarterbacks.
Great test of Gettlemans  
bc4life : 4/2/2020 10:28 pm : link
drafting skill. Because If he evaluated X-Men correctly I would think that he should be Goldens replacement?
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