In a league that emphasizes rushing the passer, and a team that won two championships rushing the passer, this roster does not have a single proven pass rusher. A strong rush can help disguise some of the other weaknesses on this roster.
Coming off of two seasons where the rush was non-existent which lead to many defensive shortcomings, I’d assume that would have been a priority.
Carter is in year three, and after some initial flashes his rookie year, he has never really blossomed. At best, he’s a rotational player until he proves otherwise.
Ximenes also showed flashes, but nothing to suggest that he will be a pass rush extraordinaire. He is far from a sure thing.
I like the Fackrell signing, but he is more of a complementary piece.
I don’t think Golden is the answer. Nice player, but it seems like he wants top end money. He had some production last year, but I don’t think he generates enough consistent pressure to warrant the contract he wants.
Clowney is not the answer. I always thought he was overrated and injury prone. His contract will end up being a mistake for whichever team signs him.
At the top end of the draft, Simmons is really the only defensive player in consideration, and while he is capable of rushing the passer, I don’t think that is necessarily his strength. This draft seems to be missing the top end rush guys, And even so, tough to depend on a rookie for meaningful impact.
Ideally, I think another veteran like Ziggy Ansah to pair with Fackrell would be ideal, but it doesn’t look like that is the plan.
I’m very weary of the line and the line alone being able to generate enough consistent pass rush.
I guess the plan is rush by committee, but it would be nice to have a guy who can consistently win. I think Judge and Graham will have their work cut out for them to try and generate a pass rush.
I know the season is six months out, but in think this is the most glaring need on the roster.
its needs to come from a combo of pressure up the middle from Lawrence abd williams....with Xmen, Carter and the new guy from GB.....
and hopefully some creative stuff from.coaches
Looks like Ximenes, Fackrell and Carter are the guys.
Exactly, unless there is a big improvement,it will probably be pretty poor again.
I'm hoping for Baun in the 2nd rd.
We can't pass judgement yet. There is a lot of time and we have 10 picks in the draft. For years all I heard up here in NE was, "Tha Patriots do this, the Patriots do that!" They don't overpay. Good players do not get great player money. DG ran free agency the way the Pats do. No stars, but not going into the draft hungry.
We will be able to draft needing OL, Passrush, and FS. Plus, we should be able to take advantage of the great WR class at some time. Last year, few were excited about Darius Slayton and Ryan Connelly. But they look like players.
Harder time even finding available edge rushing....but drafted carter and xmen....tried to sign Clowney.
The Giants have not been successful but it is not neglected
Simmons... is far from the answer. He roamed around a system made for him to excel in. He could be good and prove the doubters wrong. Just really don’t think he’ll be that. I also have a strong feeling that if McCaffrey ran into him, torn ligaments. Kelce, broken leg. Kittle... career ends.
I 100% believe Giants would have signed Yannick this year. Once he got tagged and the talent wasn't there, you sign a Fackrell and move to the draft.
He's not even going to keep the one pass rusher they have?
Golden: In the two seasons that he's played 16 games he's had 12.5 sacks and 10 sacks. This year 11 stuffs. No forced fumbles. A negative.
So he wants a million more than he's worth. There's enough cap room. It's not my money. If he helps the team make the playoffs the franchise gets the million back in postseason. He has double digit sack potential.
Williams: How much they paying him?
Five seasons, 17.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
That's an average of 3.5 sacks a season. How many players with five seasons of experience suddenly blossom into stars? Tiki Barber?
Better they spent the money on Clowney
Now if the debate is how do the Giants become a good pass rush team, I'm all for that.
- Pressure Rate 14th
- Pressures 12th
- Sacks 22nd
- QB Knockdowns 6th
- QB knockdown rate 4th
- Hurry Rate 17th
- Hurries 18th
We can't pass judgement yet. There is a lot of time and we have 10 picks in the draft. For years all I heard up here in NE was, "Tha Patriots do this, the Patriots do that!" They don't overpay. Good players do not get great player money. DG ran free agency the way the Pats do. No stars, but not going into the draft hungry.
We will be able to draft needing OL, Passrush, and FS. Plus, we should be able to take advantage of the great WR class at some time. Last year, few were excited about Darius Slayton and Ryan Connelly. But they look like players.
I don't think they make it out of the 1st anymore. The rest of the league caught onto Accorsi's stockpiling pass rusherd.
Demarcus Lawrence, Danielle Hunter, Yannick Ngakoue, Stephan, Osi, Tuck all were 2nd and 3rd round picks. Many were not considered can’t miss prospects but those guys developed over time. To expect Carter, Ximines or any rookie to just show up and dominate is unrealistic. Scheme and game planning will have to be a part of the solution. We need to add too defensive talent either way
Demarcus Lawrence, Danielle Hunter, Yannick Ngakoue, Stephan, Osi, Tuck all were 2nd and 3rd round picks. Many were not considered can’t miss prospects but those guys developed over time. To expect Carter, Ximines or any rookie to just show up and dominate is unrealistic. Scheme and game planning will have to be a part of the solution. We need to add too defensive talent either way
Strahan not Stephen lol
Gettleman's cute axiom aside, his actions have shown he's quite focused on bolstering the secondary.
His largest UFA acquisition this year, CB. The only known asset is the OBJ trade, safety. His biggest draft day trade CB. Supplemental 3rd round pick, CB. Not to mention the later round picks.
The Giants could certainly follow the Pat's trend of applying adequate pressure and shutting down the pass game in coverage.
I have no opinion on Carter as a combo outside, but as a speed outside rusher he will provide plenty of pressure if properly schemed.
OX is an unknown. His physical gifts are a dime a dozen in the NFL, but at a high enough level that anything is possible if he works on understanding weaknesses of specific opponents. The level of competition jump is enough that he could still be jag in 2020, but be something special in 2021.
I firmly believe that Bettcher may have been the worst defensive coach in the history of the world, and that is a starting premise.
This is getting lost on a lot of people here, living in our glory days. The way to compete defensively in 2020 with the way offensives are set up and the increased holding calls for 5 yards and first downs, is to hold up in the back. I am pretty sold on Simmons because he fits a glaring, glaring need and does things that are tremendously important in the game today. I'd love OT, but feel like there are a lot of intriguing players projected to go late first-second we should be looking at with 36.
Drafting Simmons also enhances the secondary even though he mainly plays LB because of his coverage skills. I think you have to sign and draft the best players available at the right price, and that has not been at Edge the past few years. Remember the last time we spent big $$ on an Edge rusher? Vernon, how did that work out between inconsistent and injuries.
The hole in the Giants pass coverage is bigger than the hole in their pass rush.
The pin your ears back blitzing edge rusher is going to get phased out.
The hole in the Giants pass coverage is bigger than the hole in their pass rush.
The pin your ears back blitzing edge rusher is going to get phased out.
Totally agree, the one dimensional pass rushers have become a liability to some extent in the NFL. With the rise in multi dimensional backs that catch like WR’s you just let those guys over pursue and hit them with screens.
We even took JPP when we were already loaded at edge.
It has been way too long since we've had a decent pass rusher.
I may not know much about football, or a lot of other things, after decades of watching, but I know if you give the QB five unharassed seconds to throw, he's going to complete a lot of passes.
I may not know much about football, or a lot of other things, after decades of watching, but I know if you give the QB five unharassed seconds to throw, he's going to complete a lot of passes.
Draft-wise it's probably not in the cards unless things align at 36. The quick fix just wasn't there this year. I'm not a DG guy but you shouldn't ding him on this one.
2. Our DL will be superb vs the run with Lawrence and Williams among the best at their positions stopping the run and Tomlinson just a hair below them.
3. As our secondary and run defense DL should be strong, we will see a lot of exotic blitz packages but not early in the year - we will build up to it and improve as the season moves along.
4. We have no choice but to hope Ximines, Carter and Fackrell can rush the passer with Ximines developing into the best of the lot.
Lastly and sadly, we have no superstars at ER or PR anywhere. The closest thing we may have is (drum roll...) DL Lawrence, who in his second season could be special pushing the pocket and making things easy for those around him.
The Giants had a pretty statistically average pass rush in 2016, as they did in 2018 and 2019.
The Giants had an absolutely dominant pass defense, and rode that to the 2nd best defense in the NFL in 2016. And this is led by Mr. Fours Aces himself.
You certainly can win in the defense without a focus on the edge and pass rush. It’s clear Gettleman prioritizes the secondary over 2-down players.
I enjoyed it. I am not convinced that win hurt the team in the long run.
The Giants teams of the 50s and 60s where they went to seven NFL championships in eight years; during that time we had Andy Robustelli and Jim Katcavage at end; Robustelli is a Hall of Famer and Katcavage was three-time All-Pro. When the Giants were running the 3-4 in the heyday of the Big Blue Wrecking Crew, they had Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks at linebacker and Leonard Marshall at right end with George Martin coming in at left end on passing downs (Curtis McGriff the starting left end didn't have a sack in his entire career). The Giants under Tom Coughlin in the late 2000s and early 2010s had four ends: Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, and Mathias Kiwanuka. In some situations all four could be rushed. Our defense has mostly been in the dumps since Jason Pierre-Paul was traded to the Buccaneers (and I think we should have kept him).
I don't really like the 3-4 defense's pass rush as it doesn't allow you to utilize the defensive line that well. To run a 3-4, you need two pass-rushing linebackers, but you also need pressure coming off the defensive line. The Giants had Leonard Marshall and George Martin, but another example would be the Oakland Raiders defense of the 1980s, who had Howie Long and Lyle Alzado at left and right end and Greg Townsend at outside linebacker. We don't have pass-rushing linebackers since Markus Golden will likely not re-sign with us. We don't have an effective pass rush on the line and if you can't get pressure with four of those front seven, you're in trouble.
Same with Zimines. We just don't know enough about these guys yet but we have to give them time to develop. Granted, in 2005 we had Michael Strahan making life easy for Osi, but Osi still develops with or without Strahan and Carter and Ximines will too, if they are the goods.
This is a big year for the younger players on D. For many it's now or never.