What are our thoughts on Gates?

than having to climb over the fence.

May become our starting right tackle, and may develop into a decent player.

he has to prove it first before he can be considered a starter

But it would be a mistake to assume he’s the answer at RT. I think he has a future as a starter but inside at RG. He could be Zeitler’s replacement in a couple of years. Best case scenario the Giants draft an OT early and both he and Gates prove that they are capable starting RT’s.

kind of the forgotten guy, isn't he?

Any HC worth his weight would have played Gates more. First Mike Remmers was under a one year contract and not playing well. In Gates limited time he played well at both Guard and RT. It was limited he was playing at a higher level than Remmers. You knew Remmers was older and only signed a one year prove it contract. With Gates you had a much younger player who may or may not be the future. It was the time given Gates was playing at a higher level to findout if he could be the future. Terrible move by the coaching staff and one of the reasons they had to go

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To get serious starter consideration. He needed a longer look than what he got last year.

but it would have been smart for Murmur to get him more reps last year so we would have more to base it on.

seems like a promising player. He knows his assignments, and works well with the other OL members. He has a future at either RT or RG.

In comment 14859132 Torrag said:

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but it would have been smart for Murmur to get him more reps last year so we would have more to base it on.

That’s the problem with a HC on the hot seat. He is going to play older veterans who he thinks gives him a better chance to win some games to save his job rather than give young prospects valuable playing time in which there will be some growing pains.

He will never start on any good team

Of the offensive line

He did take practice snaps at center.

say in some of the game reviews not to get too excited about him at RT? Did better at guard, but no starting job there.

I'm guessing seasoning can improve him, and perhaps he will step up to the plate, but he seems tailor made for a BBI obsession that if only Shurmur wasn't a doofus, we'd have a starter.

Recall he filled in at Right Tackle and maybe Right Guard (Jets and Dolphin games)? Maybe another but not sure.

I don't know if he was impressive or the avg/below-avg play of the other guys on the OL made him seem more impressive. Nevertheless, I think he needs to bulk up more if able but he deserves a chance to compete for a job.

What should not happen is to rely on him actually winning a starting role and not invest accordingly in the OL in this draft. Having Gates and Fleming be the firsts guys off the bench at Guard and Tackle, respectively is what should be expected imv.

Assuming not 1 or 2 at OT (not my idea) I would start him as the #1 RT in camp without preconceived notions. If he holds the job - fine - if he loses it - also fine.

In comment 14859146 PatersonPlank said:

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He will never start on any good team

What, specifically, are you seeing that limits his upside?

then nothing was accomplished, again.

into a solid pro under Belichick.

But the deck and balcony might need work

In comment 14859158 fkap said:

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say in some of the game reviews not to get too excited about him at RT? Did better at guard, but no starting job there. I'm guessing seasoning can improve him, and perhaps he will step up to the plate, but he seems tailor made for a BBI obsession that if only Shurmur wasn't a doofus, we'd have a starter.

After the Dolphins game:

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Lets not go crazy with Nick Gates just yet. I know we are starving for good news, particularly along the offensive line, but the MIA defensive line is the worst in football. I have a couple friends who grade defensive line play around the league in a detailed manner and they have Miami ranked 32nd, with the 31st-ranked team not being close. Gates did what he had to do and he deserves the “stud” label this week but we need to see him against better competition.

After the second Eagles game:

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He was the top NYG OL in this one and based on what we have seen this year, he deserves to be in the discussion for an OT spot or a 6th OL spot next year, the latter being preferred.

Personally, think his Gates' future is at RG.

he should be given a chance to compete at RT this year against Flemming and whatever young guy they pick. And if he doesn't win that outright I'd expect him to eventually take the RG spot as Zeitler gets older.

He's definitely the forgotten man on the roster. He stepped in last year and played well right away, which is something plenty of well regarded high picks fail to do. That shouldn't be forgotten.

.

In comment 14859223 Eric on Li said:

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he should be given a chance to compete at RT this year against Flemming and whatever young guy they pick. And if he doesn't win that outright I'd expect him to eventually take the RG spot as Zeitler gets older. He's definitely the forgotten man on the roster. He stepped in last year and played well right away, which is something plenty of well regarded high picks fail to do. That shouldn't be forgotten.

Excellent analysis.

improves and beats out Fleming. Especially if we went defense at 4.

go to the tape (obviously this will not contain screwups)
link - ( New Window )

Obviously, that highlight reel is just a small sample, his best sample. But, when he was inside at guard it didn't seem like he got much movement off the line. His best traits was ability to move, recover. Seemed a bit susceptible to good bull rushers.

that Gates could play anywhere along the line. Might he be a solution for C?

I could see him getting shoved back into Jones a lot

No shame in that

to see who he was playing against - our old John Jenkins (95) and Christian Wilkins (94) - the latter is pretty stiff opposition

Is Gates/Fleming battling at RT w Solder entrenched at LT and a fuck it approach to C, this will be DG’s last year as GM and it should be.

The Giants need a serious infusion of talent along the OL. They need two OTs and a C. There’s no talking around that, especially if they’re trying to get the most out of two major investments in Jones and Barkley.

They ain't getting two starting tackles this year. They might draft 2, but if they do I'd bet only one will be good enough to start this year. I'm hoping they can coach someone already on the roster to play at a competent level.

If they take OT in 1st Round, many speculate they'll grab an OLB/edge in Round 2. They may well grab a center there

we need a real RT

In comment 14859300 bc4life said:

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They ain't getting two starting tackles this year. They might draft 2, but if they do I'd bet only one will be good enough to start this year. I'm hoping they can coach someone already on the roster to play at a competent level. If they take OT in 1st Round, many speculate they'll grab an OLB/edge in Round 2. They may well grab a center there

I expect a starting OT and C. That’s how they approached FA.

It’s very doable to come away with that but that should be the minimum out of this draft. A starting RT (preferably a guy who can play LT) and a starting C.

In comment 14859188 Klaatu said:

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In comment 14859158 fkap said: Quote: say in some of the game reviews not to get too excited about him at RT? Did better at guard, but no starting job there. I'm guessing seasoning can improve him, and perhaps he will step up to the plate, but he seems tailor made for a BBI obsession that if only Shurmur wasn't a doofus, we'd have a starter. After the Dolphins game: Quote: Lets not go crazy with Nick Gates just yet. I know we are starving for good news, particularly along the offensive line, but the MIA defensive line is the worst in football. I have a couple friends who grade defensive line play around the league in a detailed manner and they have Miami ranked 32nd, with the 31st-ranked team not being close. Gates did what he had to do and he deserves the “stud” label this week but we need to see him against better competition. After the second Eagles game: Quote: He was the top NYG OL in this one and based on what we have seen this year, he deserves to be in the discussion for an OT spot or a 6th OL spot next year, the latter being preferred. Personally, think his Gates' future is at RG.

I think if Dave drafts Wirfs, that’s the spot where he’ll become a star. I don’t see it at RT or LT.

If your a coach on the hot seat you will play the veteran who you think would give you a better chance to get a win. Now I can understand that but only to a point. If the veteran is clearly not getting the job done. Which Mike Remmers clearly was not. An you put in younger player and that player immediately plays at a higher level. What would you do ? ? Stick with the older player or ride with the younger player. I'm would go with the player who is playing at a higher level. I'm trying to get wins to save my job.

Unless someone mentions him. He's not keeping me up at night.

In comment 14859304 gidiefor said:

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we need a real RT

How would you know that?

did ack them with Jumbo, Roberts, Oates/Williams, Moore/Kratch/Williams

In comment 14859448 Victor in CT said:

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did ack them with Jumbo, Roberts, Oates/Williams, Moore/Kratch/Williams

I would take a Riesenberg in a heartbeat

In comment 14859130 Ivan15 said:

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To get serious starter consideration. He needed a longer look than what he got last year.

I thought this as well. He did get pushed back quite a bit, but he didbjold his own tor the most part. I think adding some muscle to his frame could help.

Although they did a lot to protect him, he does a good job mirroring as a right tackle.. Inside he struggled with the power of interior lineman. No drive or push and often times would end up on the ground. Solid recognizing the blitz and picking it up. There's room for improvement but I think his ceiling is capped as an adequate backup.. his value is in his versatility.

I suspect Gates is the back-up right tackle and guard.

I predict the Giants select Wirfs and he's the right tackle. And if there's an open competition at left tackle, I'd wager Fleming beats out Solder.

that have to start at beginning of this season.

Imv, it is pretty critical however that they indeed draft three of these guys and go let them compete for a job and/or work them in as season matures or be ready next year. But they need to be on roster this season if the Giants are ever going to stabilize this oline and better develop and get the best out of DJ and Saquon.

I would obviously expect the first OL pick to play sooner vs later, mostly because that is nature of first round picks in NFL and because the talent on our oline is not pro bowl level to say the least. All three though should be starting in 2021 if DG does his job correctly.

Do we need draft picks to go to other areas? Yes, but everything in this draft should be focused around the above strategy in order to stop this wallowing at the bottom of the division each year.

Center is the biggest need going into the season. It's the single position we have no starter. In a pinch we have Flemming and Solder at OT if nothing else changes. Yes, both spots could and should be upgraded but we have to have a Center coming out of this off-season. I had also wondered after seeing Gates at Guard if he could somehow play Center but you wouldn't want to count on it and plan on finding out in training camp.

Seems to me none of us really know his potential upside - we don't do this for a living and we don't have access to the player, reams of tape, etc. But he certainly showed promise in a back-up role (PFF rating of 75.1 last year - better than many starters). So I think there is potential, but how much we really can't know.

From what I've read, his size suits him more to the interior of the O-line, not tackle, which turns my thoughts to center. Could the new coaching staff teach him to become a good center? Getting a solid starting lineman from an UDFA would be a coup, and something the Giants coaching staff of old could do (see Seubert, etc.).

I suspect the new coaching staff are evaluating where they see his potential best and then he'll have his chance to compete in camp like everyone else. With some luck on the fans' part and some hard work and talent on his, he might grab a starting spot at center or right tackle. If not, he certainly looked like quality depth last year.

When you’re struggling to find anything good, you get excited about any little thing. That said, I do hope he develops into a quality starter.