DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Format includes a quick position overview, my grading scale and what the number mean, the summary and final grade from my final report on my top 15, a quick additional note on the player, and my ranks 16-25 with grades only.
*I AM NOT DOING NFL COMPARISONS
Quick Position Overview
As previously stated, the unknown surrounding what the NYG defense will actually look like can make this position group look pretty cloudy. No matter the case, it is widely considered the deepest and possibly the best position on the entire roster. Leonard Williams was franchised, Dalvin Tomlinson is coming off his best season, and Dexter Lawrence was one of the top 5 rookies in the league last year when it comes to overall grades. That is a really solid starting point for a defensive line that needs to be “multiple”, but the strength doesn’t end there. BJ Hill, even though he saw a dip in playing time, is a really reliable and solid fourth lineman that hasn’t missed a game in 2 years. Austin Johnson was signed from TEN to add a better backup nose tackle presence, he hasn’t missed a game in over three years. And lastly there are reasons to be optimistic about RJ McIntosh and Chris Slayton and their ability to provide quality depth and specific role playing. All in, this defensive line is capable of dominating the inside running game and keeping the linebackers clean. On passing downs, they would be an ideal compliment to an elite outside pass rush presence but they aren’t capable of being the primary force in that department.
GRADING SCALE
90+ All Pro Projection
85+: Pro Bowl Projection
81-84: First rounder – should be able to play right away
79-80: 2nd Rounder – Should be able to rotate right away – Year 2 starter
77-78: 3rd rounder – Should be able to rotate by end of rookie year – Year 2/3 starter
74-76: Early Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup/possible starter
71-73: Mid Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup / gamble starter
68-70: Late Day 3 - Back end of roster / Practice Squad / Development guy
65-67: Preferred UDFA
60-64: Undrafted FA
TOP 15 GRADES AND ANALYSIS
1. Derrick Brown / Auburn / 6’5 – 326
Grade: 84
Summary: Three year starter from Sugar Hill, Georgia. Two time All-SEC performer and unanimous 1st Team All American in 2019. Brown has been NFL-ready for multiple years now. This kind of power and speed don’t come around often but he also combines it with excellent on-field intelligence and an evolving skill set. He makes the kind of eye opening play week to week that makes him appear as a bidding star. While Brown doesn’t offer much variety as a pass rusher just yet, he is still considered a three down player because of how much his tool set and hustle can create. He is a fit for any scheme and can fill multiple spots along the defensive line.
*This is the exact kind of defensive tackle talent that Gettleman loves. Huge on all levels, violent and heavy on contact, dominant tendencies, and versatile. But could I really see him adding another DT talent to the team with as many roles they have elsewhere? Yes, I do. Both Tomlinson and Williams aren’t signed beyond 2020, and the draft is very much about your team moving forward. The defensive line is where he wants to be strong and deep. Brown is widely considered a top 10 player in this class, some have him in the top 5. All of that are reasons why DG could credibly go after him but I don’t think it will happen, especially if they stay at 4. At the end of the day though, I think NYG will have players graded higher and he will want to spread resources out after doing what he did along the defensive line over the past 12 months.
2. Javon Kinlaw / South Carolina / 6’5 – 324
Grade: 83
Summary: Fourth year senior from Charleston, South Carolina. Started for three years at South Carolina after spending his freshman year at Jones County Junior College. After a childhood filled with adversity, Kinlaw molded himself from overweight junior college hopeful to a probable first round pick. The tool set is among the best in the class at the position and there is enough tape to conform he is much more than a blank slate with potential. Kinlaw has shown the ability to take over games from the middle with his ability to create a new line of scrimmage and close in on the action with violence, power, and speed. There are several technique-based parts to his game that need work and consistency, but he is very coachable and will make a difference early even while he tries to learn the game.
*If you have some time, read up on Kinlaw’s upbringing, it is a great story. I’ve read that he is going top 10 and there is a chance he goes in front of Brown. I don’t see it grade wise, but Kinlaw’s tools are more impressive. He is 324 pounds and he has minimal loose meat on his frame and he could likely hold another 10-15 pounds without losing juice. He already has rare tools, that could put him over the top. His issues revolve around consistency and effort. He doesn’t always try hard and he doesn’t really know what he is doing yet. A team will need to be patient with him and he will need to work really hard on developing the skill set. If he reaches his upside, he can be the most dominant DT in the league and I mean that.
3. Neville Gallimore / Oklahoma / 6’2 – 304
Grade: 80
Summary: Fifth year senior from Ottawa, Ontario. A four year starter that has played up and down the Sooners defensive line. A two time All Big 12 honoree, including first team in 2019. Gallimore was the first ever Canadian to play in the high school US Army All-American Bowl. His combination of size, strength, and speed is hard to find and he progressed his skill set all five years in college. In a league where everyone is looking for more pass rushers, Gallimore is going to be a sought after asset. He is a really quick, disruptive force up the middle that can beat blockers off the ball and win post-engagement. He dropped about 25 pounds between 2018 and 2019 and even though he gave a little as a run defender, his ability to impact the passing game is tempting for any scheme.
*I was surprised to not see this kid in the draft last year. He went back to Oklahoma for his fifth year senior season, lost some weight, and showed he can wear another hat on the defensive line. Gallimore is really versatile, maybe the most versatile guy in this group. He can play big and stout, he can play leaner while adding more pass rush presence. There is an outside shot he slips in to the end of round 1.
4. Justin Madubuike / Texas A& M / 6’3 – 293
Grade: 79
Summary: Junior entry from McKinney, Texas. Two-year starter that posted 10+ tackles for loss two straight seasons with his best football coming against his toughest competition. Madubuike may not be a fit for every team, thus his value is going to be hard to pinpoint. However this is a quick, powerful, 290+ pounder that has a knack for finding creases and lanes to the football. He is an ideal fit for a team that wants a throwback three technique that can shoot gaps and cause havoc. If a team wants him on the field to stay at home and absorb blockers while maintaining his anchor, he will struggle. While he has to be carefully implemented in to a scheme, he has the upside of being a top shelf interior pass rusher that can still make a difference on running downs.
*I don’t see the fit with NYG here, regardless of whether or not he drops draft weekend. As said in the summary, he won’t be a fit for every scheme but then again, he has a high pass rush ceiling and good coaches will always find a way to work with that.
5. Ross Blacklock / TCU / 6’3 – 290
Grade: 79
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Missouri City, Texas. A two year starter that ended his career with a 2019 1st Team All Big 12 honor. Blacklock opened eyes as a redshirt freshman in 2017 but a torn achilles tendon prior to the start of 2018 forced him to miss the year. He bounced back with vengeance, sharing the team lead with 3.5 sacks while adding 9.5 tackles for loss. Blacklock is a disruptive penetrator that has excellent size and burst. He can close a gap in a hurry in pursuit but also shows a power game upon contact with blockers. He is an upside-based pick that can be a package defender right away with the potential of being a top tier interior pass rusher down the road.
*Some are putting this kid in the round 1 discussion, some have him going in round 3. The lack size and length is a concern for me when it comes to every down duty, but there is no denying his ability to burst through the line and find the ball. He can be a disruptor from the three-technique position, but I wouldn’t want him as a stay at home guy. Similar to Madubuike, he needs the right role.
6. Raekwon Davis / Alabama / 6’6 – 311
Grade: 77
Summary: Senior entry. Three year starter from Meridian, Alabama. Three time All SEC defender and s 2019 All American. Davis put himself on to the national radar as a sophomore in 2017 with 69 tackles and 8.5 sacks. The tool set, as we are used to seeing from the Alabama program, was elite. He was wrecking havoc with his combination of hustle, length, and speed. Fast forward two years and hasn’t been able to match that production, most notably as a pass rusher. There is still a sense of rawness to his game and once can rightfully question how well he can perform week to week. The inconsistencies can be maddening at times but he still flashes dominant traits. He can be a solid starter or rotational player, but there are certain roles he needs to steer clear from.
*Davis may get drafted a lot higher than this because of his ceiling. He has shown in the past that he can be a dominant inside force. The inconsistency was maddening though and we can’t blame coaching. If he couldn’t put it together week to week coming from that program, I think there is plenty of credible reason to believe he will be best used on a rotation basis in the NFL.
7. DaVon Hamilton / Ohio State / 6’4 – 320
Grade: 77
Summary: Fifth year senior entry. One year starter that finished 3rd Team All Big 10 in 2019. Hamilton was part of a really deep and talented defensive line group in is early years, which made it tough for him to see the field. He finally got his shot as a senior and did not disappoint. He had 10.5 tackles for loss and 6 sacks. He is a big, long, thick interior defender that will be able to handle the size and strength of the NFL right away. He needs to clean up hand techniques and time will tell if he is simply a role player or someone that can stay on the field. Even though his upside is limited, he can still be a solid, important player that best fits in a 4-3 front.
*It is a tough sell to use a day 1 or day 2 pick on a guy that was really a 1 year contributor/starter. But coaches reports on him are glowing and he is the kind of alpha-male you put on your defensive line and the overall presence of the group is elevated. Of all the talent on the OSU defense, it was this guy that everyone viewed as the power-force. Not the most talented, but he is a safe bet to at least be a solid player that can start in multiple schemes.
8. Jordan Elliot / Missouri / 6’4 – 302
Grade: 76
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Missouri City, Texas. Two-year starter. Began his career at Texas after transferring following the 2016 season. Elliot is a penetrator with size and finishing power that can impose his will on ball carriers. He has plus-speed and quickness in space and can be a package-player at the next level. He doesn’t engage his lower half enough and gives too much ground against the running game and double teams to be viewed as an every down player at this point but with the amount of defensive line rotations the league has now, he will have a place.
*If you catch the right game, you will walk away from it saying Elliot is a 2nd round pick. He is a good athlete, pursues well, and moves like a guy that plays at 270 pounds. There are some things I don’t like about his game though revolving around pad level and hand usage. There is a lot of work to be done here but yes, he has pass rush potential which could get him drafted higher than this.
9. John Penisini / Utah / 6’1 – 318
Grade: 75
Summary: Fifth year senior from West Jordan, Utah. Two year starter that was 2nd team All Pac 12 in both 2018 and 2019. Began his career at Snow College in 2015 and sat out 2016 before taking the field for Utah in 2017. Penisini is a dirty-work defender that doesn’t jump off the screen with talent of the box score with production. But his style of play, his body, and his smarts make him an incredibly effective player on running downs. He plays low and strong, rarely giving an inch, to free up defenders around him. When a play is there to be made, he will make it. Penisini isn’t going to be much of a pass rusher but this is the kind of 2-gapper every defense wants on their roster. A very underrated prospect.
*I’ll tell ya what, when I spent the week down at Shrine in January, Penisini was the guy that improved his stock the most via his play. He was dominant at times. I don’t think many will have a grade on him where I do, but I am really confident this kid is going to play early in his career and may end up being a top notch nose tackle in the league. Not a guy that fills up the stat sheet, but one that makes play to play impact and helps others out. Don’t be surprised if you see NYG add him to their DT group day 3, he can be multiple.
10. Leki Fotu / Utah / 6’5 – 330
Grade: 74
Summary: Senior entry from West Valley City, Utah. Two year starter that was 2nd Team All Pac 12 in 2018 and 1st Team in 2019. Also added a 2nd Team All American honor as a senior. Fotu played just one year of high school football, as he had an extensive and accomplished history with rugby. His physical tool set is rare, as he possesses top tier size and thickness but is still a rather comfortable athlete. For a player this big and athletic, he doesn’t dominate the point of attack like he should but a case can rightfully be made that he is still figuring the game out. At the every least, Fotu can be a two gap run defender that frees up linebackers and will make the occasional play on the ball himself. He is a try-hard player that will stick around in the league for awhile, but may never be enough of a pass rusher to be considered an every down threat.
*Most have Fotu higher than this, and I won’t fault them for it. He is a really good body, he is still relatively new to the game, and he plays hard. Give a coach this kind of frame and hustle to work with, and they will be pleased. He plays a bit too high for my liking and there were long stretches where he disappeared. I still see day three value here though, he can play a role right away and there is some upside if he can figure out the skill set.
11. Benito Jones / Ole Miss / 6’1 – 316
Grade: 73
Summary: Senior entry from Waynesboro, Mississippi. Four year starter that came to Ole Miss as a 5-star recruit and the 2016 Mississippi High School Player of the Year. Earned 2nd Team All SEC in 2019. Jones is the classic defensive tackle force that often gets overlooked when it comes to accolades and awards. He does a lot of dirty work that elevates players around him, but rarely gets his name called when outsiders discuss impact players. Coaches and scouts will see just how good of an every down force he is, and can be. He has always worked on the family farm during the offseason and that kind of power and natural strength shows up on tape. He is very effective with his hands and he shows surprising pop out of his stance. He has a quicker first step than most will assume and combined with his tool set, it will cause offensive lines to plan around him. He is the kind of player that impacts the game so many ways and he will outperform several players drafted ahead of him.
*It sounds like I have a higher grade on Jones than what is out there in the league. I re-watched a few things and it only assured me that I have the right outlook on him. Jones is going to be a really solid nose tackle. While that role may not be as widely uses as it used to be, there are still enough teams that use it. Jones screams PIT to me. That old school nose that makes a huge difference. I’m not sure NYG is confident in what is behind Lawrence in that role and if Jones actually does fall in to late day three like I have been told, he would be a great get.
12. Darrion Daniels / Nebraska / 6’3 – 311
Grade: 73
Summary: Fifth year senior from Dallas, Texas. Two year starter at Oklahoma State and a starter in his lone season at Nebraska as a grad transfer. Team captain that earned Honorable Mention All Big 10 honors in 2019. Daniels is a high-character player that will show no hesitation in doing the dirty work inside for a defense. He can swallow space and blockers consistently, freeing up linebackers to do their job against the run. He won’t be an every down player, as he simply doesn’t offer much against the pass athletically. He has limited range and doesn’t fight through contact. Daniels won’t be a fit for every scheme, but he will find a home as a backup nose tackle in a 3-4 front.
*The grad transfer situation really worked out for Daniels. Coming in to the year, he was barely a thought for most but his performance in the unique Nebraska defense opened eyes. He got a the nod to play at the Senior Bowl and I thought he was one of the top interior run defenders there. He is a classic dirty work guy and that teams that use a 3-4 front will like him enough to call on him earlier than others.
13. McTelvin Agim / Arkansas / 6’3 – 309
Grade: 72
Summary: Senior entry from Texarkana, Texas. A four year starter that played defensive end from 2016-2018 before moving inside for good as a senior. Agim was a five star recruit out of high school that had a blend of size, speed, and strength that was rare. He was a two time state champion in the shotput that was clocked sub 4.6 in the forty. While his speed has taken a hit as he put on 40 pounds since then, his tool set is still considered to be a major plus. Agim will flash good burst and power off the ball and now that he is inside full time, where he should have been all four years of his college career, he can develop at the position a bit better and get rid of the technique deficiencies. He isn’t a stout run defender and will disappear for stretches, but he is a solid rotational prospect that can be a very solid 3rd down option for 4-3 fronts.
*This is the kind of prospect that a coach will see on paper, pop in some film, and immediately put him on their list. Coaches always think they can develop the tools and Agim is no slouch there. He had an underwhelming career compared to what people projected, but he was moved around a ton. If a team can really hone in on a specific spot, Agim has the potential to be an oversized penetrator and disruptor. He has a lot of work to do, but the base is higher than most down here.
14. Khalil Davis / Nebraska / 6’1 – 308
Grade: 72
Summary: Fifth year senior entry from Blue Springs, Missouri. A one year starter that was a significant part of their defensive line rotation for three seasons. Won the team’s Defensive Lineman of the Year Award in both 2018 and 2019. Honorable Mention All Big 10 in 2018, 3rd Team in 2019. Davis increased his production every year of his career to the point where he led the Cornhuskers in sacks with 8 as a senior while also leading the defensive line in tackles for loss as both a junior and senior. The plus-athlete has rare speed and pop for the position and he has experience lining up inside the tackle and outside the tight end. That kind of versatility will help him stick to a roster early and his long term outlook will heavily depend on him developing his skill set to hide his size and length issues. He is not stout against the run but he will create plays in space.
*Man, I watched the Davis twins and spoke with them at length down at Shrine week. Both are great kids and both had a great week down there in practice. Khalil is slightly better. He was dominating the one on ones against offensive linemen with is ability to get off the ball fast, low, and active. I’m not sure I want him as a stay at home run defender, as he just doesn’t have the size, but let this guy in on passing downs and let him shoot the gap. He is going to make things happen. His versatility is a plus.
15. Robert Landers / Ohio State / 6’1- 285
Grade: 71
Summary: Fifth year senior entry from Dayton, Ohio. A rotational defensive lineman on a team that has been packed with NFL talent there for years. Landers has never been the most talented, or even close to it, defender in the room at Ohio State but it was hard to ignore him and the overachiever style of play. He is built low to the ground and his explosion out of his stance with tornado-hands make him a tough and annoying matchup for blockers. He has subtle but assertive and productive movement that can give him enough space to slip through beyond the line of scrimmage. Landers won’t be a fit for every scheme, but he is a solid bet to make an impact on a situational basis.
*I am taking a chance on Landers. He is undersized on multiple levels but in an era where defensive linemen rotate more than ever, I am trying to find a spot on the 53 man roster for him no matter what scheme I run. He gets off the ball so well, plays with such easy but powerful knee bend, and nobody was able to consistently lock him up. He made so much impact on that OSU front but he wasn’t an every down guy and there were others that simply got the attention.
16. Malcolm Roach / Texas: 69
17. Carlos Davis / Nebraska: 69
18. Broderick Washington / Texas Tech: 69
19. Tyler Clark / Georgia: 68
20. Eli Hanback / Virginia: 68
21. Brendon Hayes / Central Florida: 68
22. Bravvion Roy / Baylor: 67
23. Raequan Williams / Michigan State: 67
24. Tershawn Wharton: 67
25. Auzoyah Alufoahi / West Georgia: 67
NYG APPROACH
I have tried to break down what Miami did along their defensive front last season as best I could in an effort to try and find what the team needs up front. When it comes to the DT positions, I think they are all set for 2020. They have quality starters, quality backups, and a couple guys in the wings worth developing another season. The question resides in post-2020 though. We do not know if Leonard Williams and/or Dalvin Tomlinson will be in blue. Austin Johnson signed a one-year contract. If you believe in the approach of adding defensive line talent every year in the draft (I do, when you have 6+ picks), there needs to be one added.
Now within the scheme, one can make the argument they should look more at a 3-4/4-3 defensive end type (the Crash end) because that is where they are a bit thin right now. So maybe we take 1 or 2 guys from the EDGE preview which is coming up on Tuesday. If NYG can be patient and pursue an interior body on day 3 with one of those late picks, I would be pleased. I think you can find a guy back there that will add some competition to the back end group (McIntosh-Slayton) and potentially start to fill the hole that will be created if Tomlinson and/or Johnson and/or Williams don’t come back.
The only scenario where I can see them going after an early DT talent like Derrick Brown is if they have a Tomlinson trade planned. I can’t see it though, as he has one year left on a rookie deal and he isn’t that special. We have seen crazier things happen though and if DG is as stubborn as some make him out to be, well then here you go.
Davidson should be on the DE list
Agree 100% with this. My wife is an Auburn fan, so I watch enough of their games. Brown is a very good player, but I want a player closer to a Donald if I am getting a DT this high with the Giants DT depth and other needs. Okudah/Simmons are higher rated players, so give me one of them or an OT
Burrow
Young
Okudah
if DG takes an OT, he very well might be reaching at 4. I would probably put Ruggs and/or Jeudy ahead of any of these OT’s as well.
Burrow
Young
Okudah
if DG takes an OT, he very well might be reaching at 4. I would probably put Ruggs and/or Jeudy ahead of any of these OT’s as well.
Let me add that the need factor for an OT is so high with the NYG that it probably mitigates true BPA.
(And while I didn’t include him above, Simmons I’m excluding because I don’t think Dave and Judge are going to take him...just a hunch)
Giants are much further along the road with the defensive line than they are with the offensive line. Barring a trade down, it's almost certainly going to be Simmons with #4, and then most of the picks thereafter will be offensive line.
Burrow
Young
Okudah
if DG takes an OT, he very well might be reaching at 4. I would probably put Ruggs and/or Jeudy ahead of any of these OT’s as well.
Ha, I differ a little with your grading surrounding Brown, but not your grade on him in particular. I do think there are a couple of the OTs that grade up higher than you do - and I have Ce Dee Lamb with a higher grade than either Ruggs or Judy -- and in my mix of top players.
I grade 3 of the QBs pretty high too -- I don't believe it's going to go Burrow, Young, Okudah
Burrow at 1 yes --
I think Simmons is going to be drafted at 2 or 3 if there are not QBs taken at those spots in trade ups - which I think is a real possibility
It's really going to come down to what the Giants value most - CB, DT, WR, OT, ER or LB if there. Arguments could be made for Brown, Okudah, Lamb, Wirfs, Wills and Young imo - Young holds an edge over the rest for me, if no Young I do thing there's an argument for each of the others.
I am not in the SImmons camp for the Giants -- I get the love for him and think he is a really good player, but I don't think he will fit the Giants scheme and the way they've been building the roster. He's this year's Aaron Donald -- a terrific player who I also didn't think was a good fit for the Giants. I am not obsessed about protecting the Giants from TEs on crossing patterns. That has never stopped us from winning championships. Give me adequate Backfield and some Terrorist edge rushers with a strong D Line, and a tough smart LB corps and I'm good to go. I want guys who are tough and physical matchups.
The only thing I'm really sure of is that the Giants are going to have the choice of 6 or 7 really good players which makes a trade down attractive through the 9th or 10th spot before there is a drop down in my grades other than QB -- add in Tua and Justin in the top 10 - and that gets you to spots 11 or 12. I wouldn't mind it at all if Gettleman managed to pick up another 3 selections in the first round again. I think the rest of the first round after 10 or 11 offers a lot of pretty solid options for him. I have it on reasonably good authority that the Giants have rolled up their sleeves and been doing an inordinate amount of homework in this draft. They will be ready for it.
Quote:
Which means, if you factor in Burrow #1, if there are no trades and it goes:
Burrow
Young
Okudah
if DG takes an OT, he very well might be reaching at 4. I would probably put Ruggs and/or Jeudy ahead of any of these OT’s as well.
Ha, I differ a little with your grading surrounding Brown, but not your grade on him in particular. I do think there are a couple of the OTs that grade up higher than you do - and I have Ce Dee Lamb with a higher grade than either Ruggs or Judy -- and in my mix of top players.
I grade 3 of the QBs pretty high too -- I don't believe it's going to go Burrow, Young, Okudah
Burrow at 1 yes --
I think Simmons is going to be drafted at 2 or 3 if there are not QBs taken at those spots in trade ups - which I think is a real possibility
It's really going to come down to what the Giants value most - CB, DT, WR, OT, ER or LB if there. Arguments could be made for Brown, Okudah, Lamb, Wirfs, Wills and Young imo - Young holds an edge over the rest for me, if no Young I do thing there's an argument for each of the others.
I am not in the SImmons camp for the Giants -- I get the love for him and think he is a really good player, but I don't think he will fit the Giants scheme and the way they've been building the roster. He's this year's Aaron Donald -- a terrific player who I also didn't think was a good fit for the Giants. I am not obsessed about protecting the Giants from TEs on crossing patterns. That has never stopped us from winning championships. Give me adequate Backfield and some Terrorist edge rushers with a strong D Line, and a tough smart LB corps and I'm good to go. I want guys who are tough and physical matchups.
The only thing I'm really sure of is that the Giants are going to have the choice of 6 or 7 really good players which makes a trade down attractive through the 9th or 10th spot before there is a drop down in my grades other than QB -- add in Tua and Justin in the top 10 - and that gets you to spots 11 or 12. I wouldn't mind it at all if Gettleman managed to pick up another 3 selections in the first round again. I think the rest of the first round after 10 or 11 offers a lot of pretty solid options for him. I have it on reasonably good authority that the Giants have rolled up their sleeves and been doing an inordinate amount of homework in this draft. They will be ready for it.
Not sure why I had Ruggs on my mind. You’re right-Lamb is WR1 in most boards. Ruggs is the guy mocked to the fucking Eagles more so than not.
Burrow
Young
Okudah
if DG takes an OT, he very well might be reaching at 4. I would probably put Ruggs and/or Jeudy ahead of any of these OT’s as well.
He's not. Look at his Alabama tape.
Going into the last year of his deal? I can’t see anyone giving up more than a 3 or 4.
I have him EDGE group - and I think NYG is going to be very interested in him.
No not really. I never viewed Brown as the explosive athlete type. If I did, and then he put up those times, then maybe I give it a second look. Those times don't weight much for me - it can break a tie though
No chance.
He would net a 4th/5th at best
Quote:
Love gallimore over Blacklock. I’ve never seen a quicker DT with fluid hips like he has. Curious why Marlon Davidson was left off the list. I think he’s a deeply undervalued player. Do you have him as a defensive end? Thanks again Sy.
I have him EDGE group - and I think NYG is going to be very interested in him.
Music to my ears. I’m very high on him
Quote:
Which means, if you factor in Burrow #1, if there are no trades and it goes:
Burrow
Young
Okudah
if DG takes an OT, he very well might be reaching at 4. I would probably put Ruggs and/or Jeudy ahead of any of these OT’s as well.
Ha, I differ a little with your grading surrounding Brown, but not your grade on him in particular. I do think there are a couple of the OTs that grade up higher than you do - and I have Ce Dee Lamb with a higher grade than either Ruggs or Judy -- and in my mix of top players.
I grade 3 of the QBs pretty high too -- I don't believe it's going to go Burrow, Young, Okudah
Burrow at 1 yes --
I think Simmons is going to be drafted at 2 or 3 if there are not QBs taken at those spots in trade ups - which I think is a real possibility
It's really going to come down to what the Giants value most - CB, DT, WR, OT, ER or LB if there. Arguments could be made for Brown, Okudah, Lamb, Wirfs, Wills and Young imo - Young holds an edge over the rest for me, if no Young I do thing there's an argument for each of the others.
I am not in the SImmons camp for the Giants -- I get the love for him and think he is a really good player, but I don't think he will fit the Giants scheme and the way they've been building the roster. He's this year's Aaron Donald -- a terrific player who I also didn't think was a good fit for the Giants. I am not obsessed about protecting the Giants from TEs on crossing patterns. That has never stopped us from winning championships. Give me adequate Backfield and some Terrorist edge rushers with a strong D Line, and a tough smart LB corps and I'm good to go. I want guys who are tough and physical matchups.
The only thing I'm really sure of is that the Giants are going to have the choice of 6 or 7 really good players which makes a trade down attractive through the 9th or 10th spot before there is a drop down in my grades other than QB -- add in Tua and Justin in the top 10 - and that gets you to spots 11 or 12. I wouldn't mind it at all if Gettleman managed to pick up another 3 selections in the first round again. I think the rest of the first round after 10 or 11 offers a lot of pretty solid options for him. I have it on reasonably good authority that the Giants have rolled up their sleeves and been doing an inordinate amount of homework in this draft. They will be ready for it.
Great information. Thanks. I'm really interested in seeing how Judge's philosophy affects the draft.
A chance? Sure.
Odds are trending away from it though.
jay glazer recently said (see link) that DG basically has one year to turn this around and if not he's out. so you have to look at where this team is and where the help in the draft may provide the most help.
when you look at this team, DL is set, ILB is relatively set with connelly, mayo, and martinez (connelly was the best defender on the team last year and they are paying amrtinez 10M a year), CB is set (at this point you need the kids to develop and you're paying bradbury top dollar), and if they like love at S, they may be relatively set there with he and peppers. they can't do anything about edge other than hope fackrell plays well and one of the kids develops because this isn't a great edge class.
the team is OK on offense at QB, RB, TE, OG, and WR. but they have nothing at OT or C. this is considered to be a good OT and C class. i would be shocked if they don't grab an OT and C with their first two picks. unless they really think Gates can play OC.
and i think this is exactly what they should do. grab 2 OL early. grab 1 or 2 WR in this rich WR class (tate is old and just about washed (he gets next to zero separation) and shep is a concussion away from retirement which leaves only slayton as a long-term piece) and ideally grab another backup RB since lewis has little to nothing left in the tank.
build the offense the way i outlined. see what you can scrap together and accomplish with this defense and identify your building blocks on that side of the ball. you have to see what you have on defense since this is a new staff and there are so many kids.
Link - ( New Window )
jay glazer recently said (see link) that DG basically has one year to turn this around and if not he's out. so you have to look at where this team is and where the help in the draft may provide the most help.
.......- ( New Window )
DG has to look long term or he is pissing into the wind. Short term is what has delayed this turnaround for two years.
I am calling BS on Glazer's claim that DG needs to fix this now or be gone. Think about it for a minute. The team just tried to salvage two years with Eli and failed trying to fielding a competitive team piecemeal. The only way to fix this is through long term thinking - a viable plan. It cannot be done in one year. Two years, yes, well at least to a competitive level.
Quote:
jay glazer recently said (see link) that DG basically has one year to turn this around and if not he's out. so you have to look at where this team is and where the help in the draft may provide the most help.
.......- ( New Window )
DG has to look long term or he is pissing into the wind. Short term is what has delayed this turnaround for two years.
I am calling BS on Glazer's claim that DG needs to fix this now or be gone. Think about it for a minute. The team just tried to salvage two years with Eli and failed trying to fielding a competitive team piecemeal. The only way to fix this is through long term thinking - a viable plan. It cannot be done in one year. Two years, yes, well at least to a competitive level.
you're saying jay glazer isn't telling the truth or doesn't know what he's talking about? jay glazer is always right and doesn't spread rumors
Quote:
In comment 14859828 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
jay glazer recently said (see link) that DG basically has one year to turn this around and if not he's out. so you have to look at where this team is and where the help in the draft may provide the most help.
.......- ( New Window )
DG has to look long term or he is pissing into the wind. Short term is what has delayed this turnaround for two years.
I am calling BS on Glazer's claim that DG needs to fix this now or be gone. Think about it for a minute. The team just tried to salvage two years with Eli and failed trying to fielding a competitive team piecemeal. The only way to fix this is through long term thinking - a viable plan. It cannot be done in one year. Two years, yes, well at least to a competitive level.
you're saying jay glazer isn't telling the truth or doesn't know what he's talking about? jay glazer is always right and doesn't spread rumors
I'm not buying it. You and I both know this team is not turning around this year. They may start in the right direction, meaning formulate a plan and follow it. The Giants are too many players away to even an 8-8 record this season(if there is one). So it comes down to, what exactly is Jay saying? We both know he has a good track record. But just what exactly is he saying?
For argument's sake, if they go 6-10 but the evidence is they were fairly competitive against decent, to good teams is that the end for Gettleman or does it meet the requirement?
glazer doesn't just throw things out there
Quote:
quote meant anything more to say “if the Giants suck again, Gettleman is probably gone.” Which anyone can probably say is the truth, it’s not rocket science. Glazer did not say “ownership has given Gettleman a ‘win this year or else”
glazer doesn't just throw things out there
yeah, that's nailing it down...
Quote:
In comment 14859836 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14859828 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
jay glazer recently said (see link) that DG basically has one year to turn this around and if not he's out. so you have to look at where this team is and where the help in the draft may provide the most help.
.......- ( New Window )
DG has to look long term or he is pissing into the wind. Short term is what has delayed this turnaround for two years.
I am calling BS on Glazer's claim that DG needs to fix this now or be gone. Think about it for a minute. The team just tried to salvage two years with Eli and failed trying to fielding a competitive team piecemeal. The only way to fix this is through long term thinking - a viable plan. It cannot be done in one year. Two years, yes, well at least to a competitive level.
you're saying jay glazer isn't telling the truth or doesn't know what he's talking about? jay glazer is always right and doesn't spread rumors
I'm not buying it. You and I both know this team is not turning around this year. They may start in the right direction, meaning formulate a plan and follow it. The Giants are too many players away to even an 8-8 record this season(if there is one). So it comes down to, what exactly is Jay saying? We both know he has a good track record. But just what exactly is he saying?
For argument's sake, if they go 6-10 but the evidence is they were fairly competitive against decent, to good teams is that the end for Gettleman or does it meet the requirement?
i agree with you. i don't have high hopes for this team at all and wanted DG fired. i think keeping him is beyond stupid. and i didn't say in my post i think they will be good. i said what DG needs to do to try to save his job and what gives them the best chance this year.
this team just spent the last two top picks on an RB and QB. and they need to give them an offensive line to have a chance to warrant their high draft picks. otherwise why the fuck even pick them if you're going to trot out this shit OL again. oh wait sorry we signed fleming.....they don't have a choice but to draft OL. and even if they do go 2 OL right away they are still trotting out the corpse of nate solder to play LT. they sure as hell can't draft a DT with their top pick.
and derrick brown is a good player yes, but he is not some can't miss DT that comes around every 10 or so years.
And Larrell Murchison from NC State?
Maybe they will be in the group with Marlon Davidson, Nick Coe and the rest?
But these guys are all like 290+ lbs (maybe except for Coe) they are not exactly 'Edge' guys or no?
Just curious: what do you see about Brown as him being a rare player? I like him a lot, but I don’t know that I see him as a rare player. I would love him if the Giants drafted at 6-8 and didn’t have so many other more pressing needs.
Quote:
In comment 14859674 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Love gallimore over Blacklock. I’ve never seen a quicker DT with fluid hips like he has. Curious why Marlon Davidson was left off the list. I think he’s a deeply undervalued player. Do you have him as a defensive end? Thanks again Sy.
I have him EDGE group - and I think NYG is going to be very interested in him.
Music to my ears. I’m very high on him
I love Davidson as well. Personally, I would rather trade down a couple spots and get an OT, pick up Davidson in the 2nd, and go C with the 3rd rounder. Take a WR with the extra pick you get in trade (2nd or 3rd). Davidson reminds me of the type of big DEs the Giants have liked in the past (Strahan, Tuck, etc)
6’5. 340lbs. Interesting prospect. Huge guy who played on a great defense in the SEC
PFA my my sheet. I think some teams will have day 3 grade there.
Medicals bumped him down a notch for me. Can certainly make a roster and be a try-hard backup
Quote:
.
And Larrell Murchison from NC State?
Maybe they will be in the group with Marlon Davidson, Nick Coe and the rest?
But these guys are all like 290+ lbs (maybe except for Coe) they are not exactly 'Edge' guys or no?
Murchison is #26 for me, another PFA/late rounder type. Just missed the list - I like him in very specific roles. But I don't see a true difference maker, some disagree with me though. I have had someone tell me he is a round 4/5 guy
6’5. 340lbs. Interesting prospect. Huge guy who played on a great defense in the SEC
He returned to Gainesville. Will be in next year's crop - as of now a very talented DT group, big time size across a handful of guys.
Quote:
If not maybe out of the top 10. Not that it really matters to the Giants but folks have touted him as the next big thing.
Agree 100% with this. My wife is an Auburn fan, so I watch enough of their games. Brown is a very good player, but I want a player closer to a Donald if I am getting a DT this high with the Giants DT depth and other needs. Okudah/Simmons are higher rated players, so give me one of them or an OT
Exactly.
Quote:
In comment 14859836 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14859828 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
jay glazer recently said (see link) that DG basically has one year to turn this around and if not he's out. so you have to look at where this team is and where the help in the draft may provide the most help.
.......- ( New Window )
DG has to look long term or he is pissing into the wind. Short term is what has delayed this turnaround for two years.
I am calling BS on Glazer's claim that DG needs to fix this now or be gone. Think about it for a minute. The team just tried to salvage two years with Eli and failed trying to fielding a competitive team piecemeal. The only way to fix this is through long term thinking - a viable plan. It cannot be done in one year. Two years, yes, well at least to a competitive level.
you're saying jay glazer isn't telling the truth or doesn't know what he's talking about? jay glazer is always right and doesn't spread rumors
I'm not buying it. You and I both know this team is not turning around this year. They may start in the right direction, meaning formulate a plan and follow it. The Giants are too many players away to even an 8-8 record this season(if there is one). So it comes down to, what exactly is Jay saying? We both know he has a good track record. But just what exactly is he saying?
For argument's sake, if they go 6-10 but the evidence is they were fairly competitive against decent, to good teams is that the end for Gettleman or does it meet the requirement?
If the Giants have a healthy team, especially when it comes to their stars or premium players, they can absolutely win 10 games, even more. So much will be determined by the fruits of this year's and last year's draft, the remaining free agent moves they make/trades, and most importantly Daniel Jones' development going into year 2. This is not the talentless roster with a well past-his-prime starting QB that DG inherited. There's a real possibility that this team could make a real jump this year.
Quote:
Love gallimore over Blacklock. I’ve never seen a quicker DT with fluid hips like he has. Curious why Marlon Davidson was left off the list. I think he’s a deeply undervalued player. Do you have him as a defensive end? Thanks again Sy.
I have him EDGE group - and I think NYG is going to be very interested in him.
As a 3-4 Edge he can give this team a dynamic it currently lacks from that position.
Quote:
could absolutely see the Giants taking Brown. As Sy notes, Williams and Tomlinson are not signed beyond this year. Brown is a rare player IMO. I also like Penisini and Fotu.
Just curious: what do you see about Brown as him being a rare player? I like him a lot, but I don’t know that I see him as a rare player. I would love him if the Giants drafted at 6-8 and didn’t have so many other more pressing needs.
Tremendous power and strength, combined with a relentless demeanor and high character. He can play multiple fronts. I'm also higher on his inside pass rush ability than most. I don't consider him a once in a 10 year DT, but he's easily the best in a very good class.
So, based on the imo premise above, I go to a statement you made re. the existing roster:
Enough already, we have so many other needs and many other good candidates to fill those needs. In my mind, there is no real chance DT goes high for Big Blue.
So, based on the imo premise above, I go to a statement you made re. the existing roster:
Quote:
And lastly there are reasons to be optimistic about RJ McIntosh and Chris Slayton and their ability to provide quality depth and specific role playing.
Sy', what have you seen from McIntosh in his two years of mostly not seeing the field to have reasons to be optimistic. Mostly spot duty, some cameos, as far as i can tell not really impressing.
I will admit some of my McIntosh thought process revolves around my college repot on him. I liked him coming out. He flashed 2x in limited snaps last year and it appeared coaches thought the same thing, he saw an increase in playing time. He is violent off the snap and shows plus athletic ability in pursuit. I think there is pass rush potential there.
Giants are not picking at DT this year.