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Trade Down

afann : 4/6/2020 10:36 am
It seems there are a lot of people on BBI that think a trade down is automatically going to happen and if it doesn’t then DG sucks. I’ve read so many threads about a trade down and needing to convince DG to do it. BBI is setting itself up for disappointment. DG is not going to trade down for nothing and he has to have someone to trade down with. What if Miami and San Diego think they can get their guy without trading up? Does DG somehow suck because they didn’t want to trade up? I think people on BBI are convincing themselves that a trade is going to happen and then what happens when it doesn’t?
I don't care  
TommyWiseau : 4/6/2020 10:45 am : link
what they do. Trade up, trade down, stay put.. Just make the RIGHT move. We need talent, get us the best players we can get
Three factors that none of us know  
Jay in Toronto : 4/6/2020 10:47 am : link
1. What will happen picks 1-3

2. What trade offers we will get

3. How high and far apart the OL prospects are on the Giants' Board.
Tommy and jay  
afann : 4/6/2020 10:51 am : link
I agree with both of you but it seems that BBI thinks a trade will happen and on draft day when it doesn’t happen it’s going to be because DG sucks, he’s old and out of touch. I don’t get why BBI acts that way without rationale.
RE: Tommy and jay  
HMunster : 4/6/2020 11:03 am : link
In comment 14860534 afann said:
Quote:
I don’t get why BBI acts that way without rationale.

Admittedly, I haven't been here that long (although I lurked all of last season), but this was too funny. Have you read any thread on BBI at all?
Do you really believe he couldn't get a pick, any pick from the Jets  
rasbutant : 4/6/2020 11:04 am : link
when Sam Darnold became available? A better poker player would have secure something, anything, from them and still been able to select the player they wanted.

It's OK, just a different approach, safe and secure vs. a little risk to max. gain and get best value for your assets.


If he wants to trade down this year, someone will do it if they feel the cost is right. Can't tell me Miami wouldn't move up a spot for a 7th round pick, who wouldn't. So don't tell me you can't move down, you just might not be able to move down for the price you want or expect, but you can always move down.
I don't think anybody has that viewpoint  
Giants in 07 : 4/6/2020 11:14 am : link
I think the hope is that DG is at least working the phones as much as possible up until and after we're on the clock.

He has to make Miami think that a team is going to jump them and he has to make LAC, JAX, OAK, CAR etc.. think that the other will take their guy if they don't go get him
My  
AcidTest : 4/6/2020 11:21 am : link
position is still the same:

(1) It's strange that the Giants have not traded down in any round since Accorsi did so with Pittsburgh in the first round to acquire Kiwi.
(2) Every draft and round are nonetheless unique. The fact that we haven't traded down since we took Kiwi doesn't mean that we should do so now.
(3) I was fine with the Giants not trading down in the last two drafts. (I think the Browns offered DG two seconds to move from two to four in 2018.)
(4) Trade partners may be harder to find this year because of COVID - 19.
RE: I don't care  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2020 11:24 am : link
In comment 14860528 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
what they do. Trade up, trade down, stay put.. Just make the RIGHT move. We need talent, get us the best players we can get


Yup. Screaming for a specific draft strategy is nonsense. Pick good players how ever the hell that needs to be done.
Dave Gettleman absolutely does not suck  
LBH15 : 4/6/2020 11:27 am : link
because he hasn't traded down.
Being that many here bashed Gettleman  
Jay on the Island : 4/6/2020 11:34 am : link
for taking Barkley and Jones the previous two drafts I wouldn't expect many of them to applaud his selection this year. For the record I think he clearly made the right choice and this is coming from someone who is proud to admit that I was wrong. I desperately wanted Darnold in 2018. I was disappointed by the Jones pick at 6 just because Allen was on the board.
I agree  
afann : 4/6/2020 11:45 am : link
With everything you guys are saying. We can all guess and try to predict what will happen but that’s it. Some on BBI are going to be very upset that a trade doesn’t happen and it blows my mind that they can’t comprehend why.
HM - I shake my had at the lack of rationale on this site and it does make me laugh.
Rasb - Yes they could’ve traded with the Jets but the probability of it was next to zero. They wanted Barkley and they weren’t taking chances.
RE: Tommy and jay  
uther99 : 4/6/2020 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14860534 afann said:
Quote:
I agree with both of you but it seems that BBI thinks a trade will happen and on draft day when it doesn’t happen it’s going to be because DG sucks, he’s old and out of touch. I don’t get why BBI acts that way without rationale.


Because DG is an easy target. I think he has done ok as a GM.

The vocal ones on this board will be mad no matter what. If no trade, DG is an idiot. If he makes a trade it will be for too little or too far down, etc. etc.
Too many veteran QBs available  
kdog77 : 4/6/2020 12:11 pm : link
I don’t see Miami or Chargers over reaching for Tua or Herbert, but the most logical trade partner for either is Detroit and not the G-Men. I fully expect DG to take an OT at 4 and am OK with it.
RE: Too many veteran QBs available  
Jay on the Island : 4/6/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14860626 kdog77 said:
Quote:
I don’t see Miami or Chargers over reaching for Tua or Herbert, but the most logical trade partner for either is Detroit and not the G-Men. I fully expect DG to take an OT at 4 and am OK with it.

Too many QB's? You think a rebuilding team like Miami is going to pass on a young QB in the draft to sign Joe Flacco, Jameis Winston, or a broken down Cam Newton? Miami is taking a QB with their first pick but I do agree that Detroit is a more likely trade candidate unless they are in love with Simmons, Okudah, or Brown.
RE: RE: Too many veteran QBs available  
LBH15 : 4/6/2020 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14860630 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14860626 kdog77 said:


Quote:


I don’t see Miami or Chargers over reaching for Tua or Herbert, but the most logical trade partner for either is Detroit and not the G-Men. I fully expect DG to take an OT at 4 and am OK with it.


Too many QB's? You think a rebuilding team like Miami is going to pass on a young QB in the draft to sign Joe Flacco, Jameis Winston, or a broken down Cam Newton? Miami is taking a QB with their first pick but I do agree that Detroit is a more likely trade candidate unless they are in love with Simmons, Okudah, or Brown.


Detroit is more likely but if Young falls to them or Miami doesn't hit their strike price, then it rolls from Detroit to the Giants.
LBH  
Jay on the Island : 4/6/2020 12:35 pm : link
Correct, Detroit is the wildcard. It’s possible that Detroit surprises and takes a QB at 3. There have been rumors that Patricia and Stafford have a rocky relationship. If Detroit takes a QB that could make a team such as the Chargers, Panthers, Or Raiders desperate to trade in front of Miami to get the last remaining top QB.
I don't know if we'll pull off a trade down  
WillieYoung : 4/6/2020 1:24 pm : link
but I do know people on this Board are smoking weed with their trade down scenarios. Go down two spots and get a second this year and a first next year, then move from 6 to 9 and get an extra one this year. I think it's possible that Gettleman takes more grief for successfully pulling off a realistic trade down (4 to 6 for an extra third round pick) then he would if he stayed pat.
RE: I don't think anybody has that viewpoint  
Ivan15 : 4/6/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14860552 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
I think the hope is that DG is at least working the phones as much as possible up until and after we're on the clock.

He has to make Miami think that a team is going to jump them and he has to make LAC, JAX, OAK, CAR etc.. think that the other will take their guy if they don't go get him


By his own statements, don’t expect DG to be working the phones. He won’t initiate a call and by his own admission, he didn’t take calls from others. Hard to make a deal that way.

However, I do think he will listen to offers this time, but may not be interested in negotiating. DG is a crusty old guy, set in his ways, but he should recognize a good deal when he sees one. If he doesn’t make a deal, 2/3 of BBI will blow up. If he makes any deal, 2/3 of BBI will still blow up.
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 4/6/2020 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14860658 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Correct, Detroit is the wildcard. It’s possible that Detroit surprises and takes a QB at 3. There have been rumors that Patricia and Stafford have a rocky relationship. If Detroit takes a QB that could make a team such as the Chargers, Panthers, Or Raiders desperate to trade in front of Miami to get the last remaining top QB.


I thought Detroit refuted the Stafford rumors vehemently?

Nevertheless, agree with your above and also adding Miami to that mix of teams.
I am praying for a trade down and believe the best partner is  
Spider56 : 4/6/2020 1:46 pm : link
Jacksonville. They can’t possibly be dumb enough to think Minshew is their future and I can’t see Marrone wanting to deal with either Newton or Winston. This is a deep draft but only Burrow and Yoing are viewed as consensus sure things. The Giants still have many holes to fill and getting extra premium picks is the right play.
RE: RE: I don't think anybody has that viewpoint  
LBH15 : 4/6/2020 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14860726 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14860552 Giants in 07 said:


Quote:


I think the hope is that DG is at least working the phones as much as possible up until and after we're on the clock.

He has to make Miami think that a team is going to jump them and he has to make LAC, JAX, OAK, CAR etc.. think that the other will take their guy if they don't go get him



By his own statements, don’t expect DG to be working the phones. He won’t initiate a call and by his own admission, he didn’t take calls from others. Hard to make a deal that way.

However, I do think he will listen to offers this time, but may not be interested in negotiating. DG is a crusty old guy, set in his ways, but he should recognize a good deal when he sees one. If he doesn’t make a deal, 2/3 of BBI will blow up. If he makes any deal, 2/3 of BBI will still blow up.


So you think the Leonard Williams deal promotes confidence?
RE: I am praying for a trade down and believe the best partner is  
LBH15 : 4/6/2020 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14860741 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Jacksonville. They can’t possibly be dumb enough to think Minshew is their future and I can’t see Marrone wanting to deal with either Newton or Winston. This is a deep draft but only Burrow and Yoing are viewed as consensus sure things. The Giants still have many holes to fill and getting extra premium picks is the right play.


I think the Jags are sticking with Minshew for year 2. Not sure why they shouldn't unless somebody blows them away in this draft?

RE: My  
UGADawgs7 : 4/6/2020 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14860563 AcidTest said:
Quote:
position is still the same:

(1) It's strange that the Giants have not traded down in any round since Accorsi did so with Pittsburgh in the first round to acquire Kiwi.
(2) Every draft and round are nonetheless unique. The fact that we haven't traded down since we took Kiwi doesn't mean that we should do so now.
(3) I was fine with the Giants not trading down in the last two drafts. (I think the Browns offered DG two seconds to move from two to four in 2018.)
(4) Trade partners may be harder to find this year because of COVID - 19.

If Cleveland offered DG 2 2nd rounders, it is very clear they wanted Barkley. Normally would say 2 2nd rounders to just move down 2 spots you have to do, but DG wanted Barkley and that was that.
RE: Too many veteran QBs available  
Bruner4329 : 4/6/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14860626 kdog77 said:
Quote:
I don’t see Miami or Chargers over reaching for Tua or Herbert, but the most logical trade partner for either is Detroit and not the G-Men. I fully expect DG to take an OT at 4 and am OK with it.


There is a reason these veterans are available plus if you see a guy like Tua or Herbert being a franchise QB then teams will look to move up. Common sense.
5/6  
OC2.0 : 4/6/2020 2:50 pm : link
I haven’t seen this brought up yet, but Mia. & LA might both think they can sit tight & get 1 or the other of Tua or Herbert anyway.. They’re pretty much even now imo. I think it’s possible LA may not even want to draft a QB. They already have a team that can contend for the playoffs right now. They can pickup Cam or Winston after they draft an OL or stud D player & call it good.
All this is BS till we see what the teams in front of us  
TMS : 4/6/2020 8:58 pm : link
do. Personally trust DG to take BPA unless he sees big opportunity to make a big killing by trading down. Depends if any of the top guys are still on the board at #4. Think if Young, Simmons or Okudah are still there he takes one of them.
There will be two very strong voices involved ...  
Manny in CA : 4/6/2020 9:07 pm : link

That were not around anywhere that Gettleman has been - Judge and Garrett. DG is not dealing the cards from a point of strength, the team has languished since he's been here.

If Garrett , especially says "I want so-and-so", DG will be forced to listen.
The number of QBs with potential have changed the game this  
TMS : 4/6/2020 9:10 pm : link
year. Hard to figure what teams who need one will do to get one. The #4 spot is a good one for us if we want to trade down.
RE: There will be two very strong voices involved ...  
TrueBlue56 : 4/6/2020 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14861131 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

That were not around anywhere that Gettleman has been - Judge and Garrett. DG is not dealing the cards from a point of strength, the team has languished since he's been here.

If Garrett , especially says "I want so-and-so", DG will be forced to listen.


And what exactly has Garrett done to show he is a talent evaluator especially when it comes to the draft? If that was the case, john mara would have hired him as a personnel guy and not a coach.

Who ran the drafts in dallas? Was it garrett or has it always been jerry jones and his son Stephen Jones?

Gettleman being forced to listen to who Garrett wants.....that's rich
RE: Do you really believe he couldn't get a pick, any pick from the Jets  
Deejboy : 4/7/2020 7:49 am : link
In comment 14860544 rasbutant said:
Quote:
when Sam Darnold became available? A better poker player would have secure something, anything, from them and still been able to select the player they wanted.

It's OK, just a different approach, safe and secure vs. a little risk to max. gain and get best value for your assets.


If he wants to trade down this year, someone will do it if they feel the cost is right. Can't tell me Miami wouldn't move up a spot for a 7th round pick, who wouldn't. So don't tell me you can't move down, you just might not be able to move down for the price you want or expect, but you can always move down.

So basically you are saying trade down for the sake of trading down. Which is of course stupid. You only trade down if you get offered a good deal to trade down. You don't move down even one spot for a freaking a 7th round pick and take even the slightest risk you lose the player you want.

Miami might be very happy to stay where they are.
RE: Do you really believe he couldn't get a pick, any pick from the Jets  
section125 : 4/7/2020 8:19 am : link
In comment 14860544 rasbutant said:
Quote:
when Sam Darnold became available? A better poker player would have secure something, anything, from them and still been able to select the player they wanted.

It's OK, just a different approach, safe and secure vs. a little risk to max. gain and get best value for your assets.


If he wants to trade down this year, someone will do it if they feel the cost is right. Can't tell me Miami wouldn't move up a spot for a 7th round pick, who wouldn't. So don't tell me you can't move down, you just might not be able to move down for the price you want or expect, but you can always move down.


Stupid post..really dumb. Just trade with the Jets for the sake of trading. Just trade with Miami for a 7th rounder? What if Miami wants that 7th rounder and see no advantage to trading a pick for no reason.
afann is right - teams don't trade, just to trade.
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