Wilson, Jackson, Jones too?
Breer MMQB:
“The tackles could all be gone by 11, with the Jets and Browns both having needs and sitting right there on the fringe of the top 10. What’s interesting is how they’re each bringing something different to the table. Becton’s a freakish left-side type, with what one scout called “Jason Peters potential.” Thomas is solid, and also projects to play on the left, but is unspectacular. Wills is sort of a prototype right tackle, who can swing left. And Wirfs is a very good athlete who everyone sees a little differently (some like him as a guard), and is probably a little more scheme-specific (he’d be best with a zone team) than the others.”
“The COVID-19 affect? One director told me he thinks teams will play it safer this year, and playing it safer, in his mind, means taking big people. That, he continued, should open the door for USC’s Austin Jackson and Houston’s Josh Jones to sneak into the first round. Louisiana’s Robert Hunt is another guy who might go earlier than expected. And it’s possible the top center/guards, LSU’s Lloyd Cushenberry and Michigan’s Cesar Ruiz, merit consideration at the bottom of the round as well.”
I talked to 2 GMs in last 24 hours and both believe UGA OT Isaiah Wilson will go in the 1st round. That’s too rich for me but it looks like it’s going to happen. Betting on the upside
Daniel Jeremiah
@MoveTheSticks
Heck...I would draft him and then sign the real Jason Peters for one year to work with Columbo to accelerate his progress.
From your lips to Gettleman's ears.
The write up says that Wilson will be gone before 36. It says he is going to go in the first round
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is from Brooklyn. MASSIVE size. 36 sounds good to me.
The write up says that Wilson will be gone before 36. It says he is going to go in the first round
it says 2 GM's "believe" he will. The draft is no sure thing. He may go round 1 but he also may fall into round 2.
Even more absurd than saying a GM who has never drafted OL in Rd 1 and has loaded up on a FA OT and blocking TEs is "obviously" going to draft OT at #4.
The only issue i have with this approach is value. It’s basically saying that no matter where you pick, if you want a tackle you need to take them in the 1st round. That’s how you end up taking a tackle at 4 that is the same quality as one taken at 11. That’s how you miss out on more talented higher impact players. Think about the value of the 4 pick vs the 11 pick. The 1st round especially upper half should focus on the best player over the greatest need. Obviously if things are tied then go with need. I have seen 3 different tackles (maybe 4) discussed routinely as the best tackle. It’s a total crap shoot at this point. In truth, beyond running back teams shouldn’t rely on their 1st round pick to be a necessary starter. Especially this year with limited camps and OTA’s.
FRANCO STILL DEAD.
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others have said, if you want a tackle who can start this year, you have to take one in the first round. Becton, Wills, Wirfs, Thomas, Jackson, Jones, and now apparently Wilson be gone before the end of the first round, certainly by #36.
The only issue i have with this approach is value. It’s basically saying that no matter where you pick, if you want a tackle you need to take them in the 1st round. That’s how you end up taking a tackle at 4 that is the same quality as one taken at 11. That’s how you miss out on more talented higher impact players. Think about the value of the 4 pick vs the 11 pick. The 1st round especially upper half should focus on the best player over the greatest need. Obviously if things are tied then go with need. I have seen 3 different tackles (maybe 4) discussed routinely as the best tackle. It’s a total crap shoot at this point. In truth, beyond running back teams shouldn’t rely on their 1st round pick to be a necessary starter. Especially this year with limited camps and OTA’s.
I agree. I wouldn't take a tackle just because all those I listed might be gone by #36. I hate over drafting players. I just think it's a real possibility. Tackles are often over drafted, and that could be especially true this year because of how COVID - 19 has affected the collective thinking of GMs.
Couldn't we repeat the Dave Diehl, Chris Snee, 'not-mistakes' drafts instead?
.... I mean probably not. But I'm trying to find some optomism.
Even more absurd than saying a GM who has never drafted OL in Rd 1 and has loaded up on a FA OT and blocking TEs is "obviously" going to draft OT at #4.
+1
WTF? Big guys don’t bust? Wish they would have told Flowers about that rule.
Pugh wasn't a mistake and had a few years of near probowl level performance. Injury is a different story but that isn't always a variable you can account for . Flowers was undoubtedly a bad miss.
All top 2 round picks.
Exactly. I want a good OL bad, but if you ask me about who I fear being a bust, OL are near the top of the list. I don’t get the mentality that just because a player is bigger, they are safer. Is there any data backing that up?
Becton
Thomas
Wills
Jackson
Jones
Cleveland
Wilson (8 OTs) will go in the top 35
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Besides, do we really want to repeat the Pugh and Flowers mistakes? No way. Much better to repeat the Brewer, Mosley, McCants, Hart, Bisnowaty, and Asafo-Adjei mistakes.
Pugh wasn't a mistake and had a few years of near probowl level performance. Injury is a different story but that isn't always a variable you can account for . Flowers was undoubtedly a bad miss.
Pugh was a 2nd round talent whom most assumed would have a future at Guard, overdrafted by the Giants because they failed to adequately address their deteriorating offensive line in two previous drafts. He was a reach. Period. "Near pro bowl level performance" is laughable on its face.
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Besides, do we really want to repeat the Pugh and Flowers mistakes? No way. Much better to repeat the Brewer, Mosley, McCants, Hart, Bisnowaty, and Asafo-Adjei mistakes.
Couldn't we repeat the Dave Diehl, Chris Snee, 'not-mistakes' drafts instead?
.... I mean probably not. But I'm trying to find some optomism.
Snee was a Guard. No problem drafting a Guard in the 2nd Round. Diehl was an anomaly. Besides, I'd rather not draft a guy who was primarily a Guard in college, expecting him to successfully transition to OT after four years in the league. I don't think Barkley and Jones can wait that long.
Then they're mystified why all those OL they passed on, turn out to play well and start in the league while we have turnstyles at Tackle.
All top 2 round picks.
Pettigout was a 1st round pick, #19 overall.
Beatty? Maybe if the Giants weren't enamored with Clint Sintim, they might have drafted Max Unger, Andy Levitre, Phil Loadholt, or Sebastian Vollmer instead.
Snee was a Guard. Pugh is a Guard, and he was a 1st round pick, too, also #19 overall.
Protect Jones and get a reliable run game going. I think Judge's opening presser gives a strong clue as to who the pick will be.
Then they're mystified why all those OL they passed on, turn out to play well and start in the league while we have turnstyles at Tackle.
Oh, I completely agree with you on bypassing OL, but I don’t know where the idea comes from that there is a lower bust rate for Bigger players other than the old adage that you can’t teach size. Are there statistics backing that up? Personally, I would love nothing more than a good OL in this draft, but I am far more concerned with a Becton, Wirfs, Thomas, or Wills busting than a Simmons, Okudah, Jeudy, Lamb, or Brown. Maybe my gut/intuition is not backed up statistically. I’m just wondering where they get that from
The problem is the scouts haven't adjusted their grading system IMO.
So they keep looking for unicorns. See also the QB debate last year.
Yeah, but he is damn Jesuit!
The draft isnt about filling holes.
The draftn isnt about filling holes.
It's really incredible how that notion still hasn't sunk through your skull after all this time.
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You certainly can't plan on it...you never could. It's always been OT in Round 1 this year for the Giants. People should accept it because it's coming. The only real question is how do the Giants rank them and will we trade down. Very good players at the position to select among.
The draft isnt about filling holes.
The draftn isnt about filling holes.
It's really incredible how that notion still hasn't sunk through your skull after all this time.
It is if we project to have holes at Tackle for the next decade.
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You certainly can't plan on it...you never could. It's always been OT in Round 1 this year for the Giants. People should accept it because it's coming. The only real question is how do the Giants rank them and will we trade down. Very good players at the position to select among.
The draft isnt about filling holes.
The draftn isnt about filling holes.
It's really incredible how that notion still hasn't sunk through your skull after all this time.
Not always but it happens plenty. If you look clearly at what you are seeing.
These guys are rated in the top 10 or so, which means if that is who you want and need, you grab him. You can't be too fine with this. Saying "I'd take him at #11 but not #4" makes no real sense if he's the guy who you think will be great.
I won't be disappointed with the talent we acquired if we pick simmons/okudah/brown. I do think we would have missed the chance to acquire a really good OT for a line that has been very bad for a really long time.
Seriously though, teams aren’t going to pick somebody different because of this virus, please.
I won't be disappointed with the talent we acquired if we pick simmons/okudah/brown. I do think we would have missed the chance to acquire a really good OT for a line that has been very bad for a really long time.
You want a DT that isn't going to rack up sacks at #4? That would be a gross misuse of resources. I could at least handle Simmons or Okudah as they could be elite but Brown would be a very tough pill. Should be the OT though the grade is there and the need to do right by Jones, Barkley, Garrett and the rest of the offensive staff.
I like his upside but the fact that he has back issues before the age of 21 scares the crap out of me. It's too risky to use a top 5 pick on a huge OT with back issues.
I'll mince fewer words and say that it is likely. Bookmark this page and get back to me in September.
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He will be the best LT in the group. Willing to take that risk and at the very least a good RT for a long time. The 2nd guy would be Wills for RT. Again the best RT in the bunch. Wirfs is the riskiest because he will be a guard. He is not close to as good as Nelson at this stage. Thomas looks average but solid. He is a mid round OT. I havent watched the rest. Only looking at guy's that have #4 potential. Too many options at 36.
I like his upside but the fact that he has back issues before the age of 21 scares the crap out of me. It's too risky to use a top 5 pick on a huge OT with back issues.
If the back issue stuff is legit then he probably is not in the running for our pick and its probably down to Wirfs and Wills.
Brown will be about as good as the last 3 Browns on this team cc, Derek and Dave.
Yikes....
Ok probably not that level but certainly not top 5 pick level. You want a guy that can penetrate and sack at a high level if you are going top 5 ....that ain't D Brown
If Becton, Jackson, Jones or Wilson start in the upcoming season, there will be QBs running for their lives.
If you don’t, it will get worse.
Yuck. Don’t think enough can be said about the lack of talent this team has at offensive line. You could easily argue Zeitler is the only above average starter
Becton
Thomas
Wills
Jackson
Jones
Cleveland
Wilson (8 OTs) will go in the top 35
11 Defensive linemen went in round 1 last year.