Read a tweet from Talkin' Giants about the 2010 team, and it got me thinking about this franchise's what if moments on bad breaks, tough calls, incredible collapses, or unlucky bounces, things where the Giants could have had far better seasons (perhaps Super Bowl-winning ones) if not for one play going horribly wrong.
And then I wondered where the team may have landed if the ball bounced their way.
Long post below (sorry), but if you want, let me know your takes.
Here are 8 off the top of my head since 1985.
1. 1985: What if Sean Landeta didn't whiff on that punt against the Bears in the playoffs?
2. 1988: What if the Giants recover the fumble on the Cris Carter TD to tie the home game vs. Philly? Or really, what if the Giants got the ball after the blocked FG in OT instead of Simmons scoring for PHI?
3. 1989: What if Sheldon White didn't get called for PI in OT vs. the Rams in the playoffs? Or if Collins (who I believe was playing hurt) got a hand on the pass that eventually led to the Flipper TD?
4. 1997: What if Chris Calloway recovered the onside kick v Minnesota?
5. 2001: What if Ron Dixon gets that one final block and scores the Lambuth Special TD vs. Philly in Week 16?
6. 2002: What if the refs called DPI on the 49ers as they should have in the wild card? Or what if Shockey caught the TD?
7. 2005: What if Jay Feely made one of his FG vs. Seattle in the regular season, which would have given the Giants the 1 seed?
8. 2010: What if (insert a 1,000 things that happened in the 4th quarter during the Philly game at home)?
My takes:
1985: Probably still lose that game, although maybe 14-0 instead of 21-0. Bears D too strong.
1988: This is interesting. Giants would have won division and gotten 2 seed. They would have hosted Minnesota in the divisional and then likely San Francisco in the conference title, as SF crushed CHI in the 88 title game in reality.
I see a possibility where the Giants run the table and beat the Bengals in the Super Bowl.
1989: If the Giants get the ball back and eke out a win, they would have gone to SF for the title game.
Maybe a hot take on my part, but as good as that 89 team was (perhaps better than 90), I couldn't see the Giants beating SF in SF that year. That 89 49ers team was too good.
1997: Giants would have gone to Green Bay and gotten crushed. That 97 Packers team was fantastic until the Super Bowl.
2001: Giants would have won the division with a win vs GB and a PHI loss to TB in Week 17.
GB and TB both would have had something to play for in this alternate universe, and to be honest GB was just a better team than NYG that year.
I still think the Giants would have lost even with more motivation (in reality, a 34-25 defeat not as close as score indicates), finished 8-8 and missed catching Philly for East crown.
2002: Giants would have gone to Tampa for the divisional round, and frankly I can't see them doing well on offense vs. that D.
2005: Giants would have gotten the 1, where they would have played Washington (and I think beaten them). Then my guess is they would have beaten Seattle at home but lost to a tough Steelers team in the Super Bowl.
If I recall correctly though, that team was a MASH unit by season's end. A bye week in playoffs could have helped though.
2010: I really think this team could have won it all in what was ultimately a parity-stricken season with no great teams.
They were awesome when everything was clicking. Problem is they'd have these random off-weeks, but the Giants would have been the 2 seed.
Road to Super Bowl that year would have been through ATL, who didn't show up in the playoffs. Super Bowl vs. a very good, not great Steelers team.
Alas, wasn't meant to be.
I'm omitting some obvious what-if moments in broader Giants history because the focus here is on-field while others happened off-field, like LT's suspension in 1988 or Burress in 2008.
But quick takes anyway: Obviously in '88 I think the Giants win one of the two losses that LT missed and that 2008 is better with a healthy Plax but I believe he was slowed all year by injuries.
Exactly. Kerry turned into jelly like Simon from Airplane 2 under pressure from great defenses. I don't think we wouldve gotten by Tampa in round two
The Niners 2002- Shockey dropping a sure TD in the end zone,
Yes he had an overall great game but still that ball was right in his hands.
Also the cluster F**k field goal attempt.
2010 Giants lose that game at home versus Philly because a bunch of things went against them, and they were unable to make ONE thing happen for themselves. It happens.
Football is a game of inches and bounces, momentum and confidence. One little bounce can go against you and kill you, and it can go in your favor and deliver a championship.
It's part of football.
SuperBowl repeat?
Fair to bring up 87, but IMO the Super Bowl champion “hangover” would have gotten us anyway. My memory of the anecdotal stories is that group spent most of the offseason partying, and I think collectively they wrote (well, had ghost-written) close to a dozen books about the season.
We started off 0-2, losing in Chicago and at home to Dallas, before the strike/replacement player debacle.
It’s certainly possible that team could have caught fire again were it a normal season...that was Carl Banks career year, coming off dominating in the 86 playoffs.
But IMO the Skins were the team that came back with the added intensity and motivation to get them over the top, just like we were in 86
SuperBowl repeat?
yes I forgot about the strike season
2010 Giants lose that game at home versus Philly because a bunch of things went against them, and they were unable to make ONE thing happen for themselves. It happens.
Football is a game of inches and bounces, momentum and confidence. One little bounce can go against you and kill you, and it can go in your favor and deliver a championship.
It's part of football.
All true - and we could play this game with the Pats at length too.
What if the tuck rule doesn't get applied as it did? What if Pete Carroll gives it to Marshawn one more time instead of that dumbass short slant pass on the goal line? What if Kyle Shanahan figured out running the ball is a better way to protect a 28-3 lead?
The Brady/Belichick Pats could be 3-6 in Super Bowls, and have more of an Atlanta Braves legacy that the best dynasty in football history.
Or, what if Welker catches that pass...or Harrison breaks up Tyree's catch...or Brady doesn't fumble when Graham hits him...he could just as easily be 8-1 or 9-0 in Super Bowls.
That was my last cut. I omitted because I'm 99.9 percent sure the Giants lose that game based on how it turned out, whereas I saw at least a glimmer of hope in other scenarios.
But yea, I definitely could have put it on the list and maybe should have. It's too notorious in Giants lore.
My take there is Giants still lose but by 2 scores, not 4.
2. 1988: More like what would've happened if the beat the Jets? They go to Chicago and all bets were off there. That 88 Bears team wasn't that good - 9ers were a team of destiny that year though and if they beat them, the Bengals were tough.
3. 1989: They play a tough hard fought game in SF and lose like they did in the regular season that year.
4. 1997: They go to GB and get throttled.
5. 2001: ??? That team sucked.
6. 2002: Heartbreaker. This team had a shot :(
7. 2005: This one is a crapshoot. Eli and the team were young. Carolina proved that.
8. 2010: Horrible. Could've been huge.
Don't forget 2008 - Plax. That could've been a VERY special playoff run.
And the other year that EVERYONE always forgets about is 93'. That year, I truly believe they had a shot. LT and Phil Simms' last year, a young team around them with tons of talent (except the WR corps) and a great O-Line. Losing that game to Dallas at the end of the regular season killed them, as did losing to the Cardinals the week before. If they beat the Cowboys there, they would've gotten home field, and I truly believe if they had gotten on a run they would've beaten the Bills for the 2nd time in 4 years. The game in Candlestick was not a measuring stick for that team, as the 49ers were psyched up and played their best football of the season.
I just logged onto BBI because I suddenly remembered 1993. Kicking myself now for forgetting that.
So No. 9:
What if Dan Reeves goes for the win instead of, in essence, playing for OT late in the 4th quarter?
I included 88 Eagles over 88 Jets (though Matt in SGS did a great job explaining why that game was so gut-wrenching) because there were two absurd plays that went the Eagles' way but really shouldn't have. Massive momentum swing.
Whereas 88 Jets...actually you could probably say something like what if Ellis didn't get hurt or something.
Giants deserved to lose that one based on how they played for nearly the entire game though, IMHO.
Who knows what would have happened long term. But that what if sticks in my mind,
That's a good one.
2. 1988: More like what would've happened if the beat the Jets? They go to Chicago and all bets were off there. That 88 Bears team wasn't that good - 9ers were a team of destiny that year though and if they beat them, the Bengals were tough.
3. 1989: They play a tough hard fought game in SF and lose like they did in the regular season that year.
4. 1997: They go to GB and get throttled.
5. 2001: ??? That team sucked.
6. 2002: Heartbreaker. This team had a shot :(
7. 2005: This one is a crapshoot. Eli and the team were young. Carolina proved that.
8. 2010: Horrible. Could've been huge.
Don't forget 2008 - Plax. That could've been a VERY special playoff run.
And the other year that EVERYONE always forgets about is 93'. That year, I truly believe they had a shot. LT and Phil Simms' last year, a young team around them with tons of talent (except the WR corps) and a great O-Line. Losing that game to Dallas at the end of the regular season killed them, as did losing to the Cardinals the week before. If they beat the Cowboys there, they would've gotten home field, and I truly believe if they had gotten on a run they would've beaten the Bills for the 2nd time in 4 years. The game in Candlestick was not a measuring stick for that team, as the 49ers were psyched up and played their best football of the season.
I have to disagree on the Niners game in 1993. The only differnce is they would have got blown out at home. Reeves played that game from the fetal position from the first play. That is my all time most despised Giants game.
2010 Giants lose that game at home versus Philly because a bunch of things went against them, and they were unable to make ONE thing happen for themselves. It happens.
Football is a game of inches and bounces, momentum and confidence. One little bounce can go against you and kill you, and it can go in your favor and deliver a championship.
It's part of football.
I think I'm going to do a part II for a new thread later this week about what-ifs the other way.
e.g. Welker in SB 46, Favre's OT pick in 07, Kyle Williams fumble in 11, etc.
Quote:
The 1987 team...Suppose there was no strike ruining the season.
SuperBowl repeat?
Fair to bring up 87, but IMO the Super Bowl champion “hangover” would have gotten us anyway. My memory of the anecdotal stories is that group spent most of the offseason partying, and I think collectively they wrote (well, had ghost-written) close to a dozen books about the season.
We started off 0-2, losing in Chicago and at home to Dallas, before the strike/replacement player debacle.
It’s certainly possible that team could have caught fire again were it a normal season...that was Carl Banks career year, coming off dominating in the 86 playoffs.
But IMO the Skins were the team that came back with the added intensity and motivation to get them over the top, just like we were in 86
"dozen books about the season..."
And one of them is the inspiration for my username!
Quote:
The 1987 team...Suppose there was no strike ruining the season.
SuperBowl repeat?
yes I forgot about the strike season
LT and Simms and company were still in their prime
YA should have sat down in 1963
1988 we had NO business losing to the Jets..
PS that was my Dad's last game at the Stadium
he was pissed
He called them "The Dummy Giants" that always play down to the opponents level..