EDGE
Format includes a quick position overview, my grading scale and what the number mean, the summary and final grade from my final report on my top 15, a quick additional note on the player, and my ranks 16-25 with grades only.
*I AM NOT DOING NFL COMPARISONS
Quick Position Overview
The “EDGE” position in this scheme is a bit of a gray area, so you may end up seeing a few names that you thought were defensive tackles. Even on the current NYG roster, Leonard Williams can be considered a defensive end but at the end of the day, the majority of his snaps are spent inside the offensive tackle. In regard to who I am talking about on the current NYG roster, you are looking at more traditional 3-4 outside linebacker types. Lorenzo Carter, who was drafted in 2018, is entering the near-vital third season of his career where it is time to put up or shut up. He is physically gifted but inconsistent. Rookie Oshane Ximines, in less snaps, matched Carter’s impact as a pass rusher with 4.5 sacks but really struggled against the run. Markus Golden, who led the team with 10 sacks, remains a free agent and it appears free agent signing Kyler Fackrell will replace him. He hasn’t missed a game in three years but he took a back seat to Preston Smith and ZaDarius Smith in 2019. Keep in mind that Fackrell had 10.5 sacks in 2018.
It’s important to know what exactly this team is trying to do on defense. I can’t say I know for sure, but NYG already has their “BUCK” and “SAM” candidates. The BUCK is essentially a pass rushing linebacker that can play SAM (strong side linebacker) when the front changes. The SAM plays strong side but can move to MIKE/inside when the front changes. I see Ximines, Carter, and Fackrell being those guys. What I’m not sure I see quite yet on this defense is a guy that can really play the CRASH end. They are hybrid 3-4/4-3 defensive end types. Usually these guys need to push 265+ pounds with 34+ inch arms. Can they put Williams in that role, make him more of an edge threat? Sure, but I think there may be better candidates in this draft class for the role. However I will say, it is a hard spot to fill because there aren’t many ideal candidates for that spot.
GRADING SCALE
90+ All Pro Projection
85+: Pro Bowl Projection
81-84: First rounder – should be able to play right away
79-80: 2nd Rounder – Should be able to rotate right away – Year 2 starter
77-78: 3rd rounder – Should be able to rotate by end of rookie year – Year 2/3 starter
74-76: Early Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup/possible starter
71-73: Mid Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup / gamble starter
68-70: Late Day 3 - Back end of roster / Practice Squad / Development guy
65-67: Preferred UDFA
60-64: Undrafted FA
TOP 15 GRADES AND ANALYSIS
1. Chase Young / Ohio State / 6’5 – 264
Grade: 91
Summary: Junior entry. Two year starter from Hyattsville, Maryland. After earning the 5-star recruit label out of high school and coming to Ohio State with sky high expectations, Young finished his career with an All American season and 1st Team All Big 10 honor. He led the nation with 16.5 sacks as a junior despite seeing countless double teams. Young is widely considered the best non-quarterback in the draft and will be a player that a franchise can build a defense around. He is no specialty pass rusher, Young can contribute on and impact all three downs. His tools and work ethic to be great make him the next big thing at defensive end to come out of a program that had produced some recent big time NFL talent at the position.
*Young breaks the 90-point barrier on my grading scale, reserved for guys that I am putting an All-Pro projection on. These aren’t handed out often. Young can do it all, he fits in to every scheme, and he is going to be a player right away. I have him slightly below where I had Myles Garrett in 2017 simply because there is a little less juice out of his stance and he doesn’t play as low as I would like at times. But there is no denying how good this kid can be if he comes in and works hard. If NYG could get their hands on him (crazier things have happened), it would be the best-get they’ve gotten in a long time considering the position he plays and NYG’s weakness there. Cross your fingers and pray teams are going to get in to bidding wars for the quarterbacks.
2. Yetur Gross-Matos / Penn State / 6’5 – 266
Grade: 85
Summary: Junior entry. Two year starter from Spotsylvania, Virginia. When it comes to long term upside and tools, Gross-Matos can be considered one of the top defenders in the entire class. He has the height, length, and speed combination that is considered rare and salivating for coaches. Don’t make the mistake of labeling him just an upside player, however. He recorded 35 TFL and 17.5 sacks over his two seasons as a starter and has more than enough tape to prove he can get the job done early in his career. There are issues with his game, most notably when it comes to power and inside run defense, but Gross-Matos has a top shelf toolbox that may just need some time and strength development before being an every down player.
*If you want to know who I am going to be hoping for at the top of round 2, well here he is. The odds are he will be a first round pick, however. With that said, many have a cluster of edge talent below Young and if he isn’t the flavor other EDGE-needy teams are wanting, he could slip. Gross-Matos has some baby-deer in him still, a kid that simply needs to add core strength and grow in to his own body. However I have multiple game notes with the name “Myles Garrett” in them. He plays with that rare combination of explosion, length, leverage, and strides. At his absolute peak, Gross-Matos is closer to Young than people think.
3. AJ Epenesa / Iowa / 6’5 – 275
Grade: 82
Summary: Junior entry. Two year starter from Glen Carbon, Illinois. A two-time All Big 10 Defensive Lineman, including a first team honor in 2019. Epenesa is a big, long, and physical lineman that can be moved inside and out for a versatile-front scheme. He brings the proper mix of discipline and effort to the table every play. While he lacks some of the standout traits teams want in a pass rusher, Epenesa does a lot for a defense that won’t always show up in the box score. His ceiling doesn’t look as high as some others, but his floor is raised and will wear several hats at a high level when called on.
*There was a stretch where I thought Epenesa was going to end up as a top 10 prospect. I didn’t up with him there, but I still think he is a solid first round pick if he can find the right scheme. The CRASH end that I spoke of earlier? He is an ideal fit for that role A defense that can change it’s front without taking guys off the field needs someone like Epenesa on the edge. He isn’t a plus athlete but he can win with his power and advanced hand usage. If he falls in to round 2, NYG will be very interested.
4. K’Laivon Chaisson / LSU / 6’3 – 254
Grade: 80
Summary: Redshirt sophomore entry. Two year starter from Houston, Texas. After a 5-star recruit caliber high school career, Chaisson started week 1 of his true freshman season, a true rarity for the program. He showed off plenty of upside that year but a torn ACL week 1 of his sophomore season caused him to miss the year. He had to fight through an ankle injury early in 2019, thus his experience as he enters the league is limited. With that said, Chaisson’s movement skills and leverage jump off the screen. He is a feisty, explosive straight line edge rusher that can cause the offensive line to change their approach. His body still has a lot of filling out to do, but nobody will question this kids work ethic. After all, he was a permanent team captain as a true junior that wore the heralded #18 jersey for the National Champion Tigers.
*Here is your classic high risk, high reward edge defender. I could see someone using a mid-first on him and while I wouldn’t look down on it, I simply wouldn’t use that early of a pick on someone like this. He has more than enough speed off the edge, he makes a lot of hustle plays. But he had a knee injury, he lacks power, and there isn’t enough advancement in his skill set. I see a 2nd rounder here but one that can easily end up being one of the top 10 players in this entire draft class 3 years from now.
5. Zack Baun / Wisconsin / 6’2 – 238
Grade: 80
Summary: Fifth year senior entry from Brown Deer, Wisconsin. Two year starter that ended his career with a bang, earning 1st Team All Big 10 and 2nd Team All American honors. Baun missed all of 2017 with a foot injury but hasn’t missed a thing since. The former high school athlete quarterback made the full time transition to defense during his senior season and evolved in to one of the top defensive prospects in the class. He has incredible movement skills as an edge rusher, showing the unique blend of speed, burst, and agility to beat a blocker several ways. He is far along in his development when it comes to technique and mental understanding of the game. He may not be an ideal every down defender right away because of a lack of size against straight ahead run blocking, but his style of play and intentions to mold himself will eventually make him a quality starter.
*A credible case can be made for putting Baun at linebacker, but whatever. He is a 2nd round pick in my eyes, one that could be higher than Chaisson depending on scheme and how you need to use them. Baun isn’t big enough to live on the outside as a pass rusher but he can be moved to an off-ball role. What many don’t see in him is the fact he can cover much better than other off ball linebackers. He didn’t get a ton of action in that role, but the former high school quarterback moves around back there like he really knows what he is doing. I think the versatility will be attractive to the Giants, but does he fit the physical profile of what they are looking for? I think if they go for a front seven defender in round 2, he won’t be at the top of their list.
6. Jonathan Greenard / Florida / 6’3 – 263
Grade: 79
Summary: Fifth year senior from Hiram, Georgia. Spent four years at Louisville before grad-transferring to Florida. He was a 2 year starter in total and saved his best football for 2019, where he earned 1st Team All SEC honors after leading the conference with 15.5 tackles for loss and 9.5 sacks. Greenard has the kind of length and fast twitch play that will give tackles a headache off the edge. He plays with the proper blend of speed and power and should have plenty more bulk to add to his wide frame. When it comes to total production, Greenard’s last two real seasons accrued 31 TFL and 16.5 sacks over 25 games across two different conferences. There are some power issues, notably against the run, that need to be looked in to but this is the kind of athlete and person a team wants to add to their team. His relentless, hard working style combined with quality tape and physical gifts make him a safe bet to be a productive player.
*I am surprised there isn’t more hype around Greenard. He didn’t have the best workout at the combine and I will say he is less explosive than Chaisson, but he plays heavier, has more length, and seems to have better decision making ability. I have seen some Osi Umenyiora in him for what it’s worth. He has some medicals that need to check out as well but if they do, he is a guy I would keep a close eye on in the 3rd round with the hope if he falls in to NYG’s lap with that compensatory pick if they don’t address the EDGE spot by then.
7. Marlon Davidson / Auburn / 6’3 - 303
Grade: 79
Summary: Senior entry from fro, Greenville, Alabama. A rare four year starter from the Auburn program. Davidson may not be an ideal fit for a cut and dry scheme, but with the amount of teams looking to “get multiple” in relation to their looks, Davidson can be a key target. He is a tweener without a true position and lacks a standout strength, but he can fill in to multiple spots and perform well enough. Davidson is a powerful force that can create mismatches and do some of the dirty work to keep others clean and unoccupied. The reliable and caliber of a player that every good defense needs.
*Similar to Epenesa, Davidson appears to be a really nice fit if NYG is looking to add a legit CRASH end to the line. He played all over the edge at Auburn and was equally effective against the run and pass. Combine that with his mindset and blue collar attitude, I can see him being a favorite of this coaching staff during the scouting process to the point of him being in the discussion with their 2nd round pick.
8. Terrell Lewis / Alabama / 6’5 – 262
Grade: 78
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Washington, D.C. A one year starter. 2nd Team All SEC in 2019. Lewis was a 5-star recruit out of high school that began his career strong as a rotational edge rusher, ended his career strong finishing second on the team with 11.5 TFL and leading the team with 14 pressures, but missed a combined 25 games over the two middle years with different injuries. He is a tools-rich, versatile athlete that can make things happen from a standup outside linebacker position, but his medicals will be a very important factor to his grade. His aptitude to play assignment football will be a welcomed addition for a defensive coaching staff that can use him on a rotational basis.
*If it weren’t for the injuries, one can realistically say Lewis is a first round prospect. But you can’t look past the fact he was a one year starter and has only played 16 career games. His tools are top notch, he plays a violent game, and he had a really strong Senior Bowl week. He plays a position that every team is looking for and he fits in to every scheme, thus I don’t see his stock plummeting draft weekend.
9. Jabari Zuniga / Florida / 6’3 – 264
Grade: 78
Summary: Fifth year senior from Marietta, Georgia. Started games all four years, but was considered the full time starter in 2018 and 2019 only. Zuniga began playing football as a senior in high school before hitting a growth spurt and evolving in to an impressive specimen that had to be developed. His talent alone raised eyebrows in 2016, as he played sparingly but still led the team with 5.5 sacks. Ever since then, he has been used as a versatile inside-out player that can take advantage of interior blockers and tackles alike. He has a style that may be too quick for guards and centers and too powerful for the tackles. The tools are there to be developed and the flashes on tape go to show there is a ceiling higher than most edge prospects in the class. He had a hard time staying healthy but if a team can pinpoint the right role for him and he can stay on the field, watch out.
*Put this kid in the group of prospects that needs to be used correctly for him to reach even somewhere close to his ceiling. I’ve seen a lot of him over the past two years and it is hard to imagine there is a role for him on every defense. It could cause him to drop a bit. Does he fit on he NYG defense? I think he could be an undersized (slightly) CRASH end that I’ve spoken about a few times. If they really want to add a guy to that role but they miss out on one in rounds 1 and 2, check to see if this kid is there end of round 3 / early round 4. I think he can contribute year one.
10. Darrell Taylor / Tennessee / 6’4 – 267
Grade: 77
Summary: Fifth year senior from Hopewell, Virginia. Three year starter that won the team’s MVP award in 2018. At this point, Taylor has come up a bit short when it comes to consistency and overall production when considering his upside and flashes. When it comes to physical traits, he has all the bend and power that will make him a handful for blockers to deal with off the edge. He makes a powerful impact upon contact and shows the ability to get off blocks with violence. The issues exist in his consistency and instincts. Tennessee coaches have been driven mad because of what he shows in flashes vs. his lack of consistency. He doesn’t react fast enough and will get caught out of position. The physical traits are hard to look past, however, and this is a guy that had 21 TFL / 16.5 sacks over the past two years and played really well against the SEC.
*Don’t sleep on this kid. Something didn’t click for him at Tennessee and I’ve been told it wasn’t all on him. I watch this kid for stretches and wonder why he isn’t dominating. He is more powerful than almost everyone he matched up against, he plays with tremendous leverage, and there is enough juice off the snap. Maybe one of those guys that just doesn’t feel the game OR maybe he ends up being a top 3 edge guy out of this class. I wouldn’t be surprised by either.
11. Josh Uche / Michigan / 6’1 – 245
Grade: 76
Summary: Senior entry from Miami, Florida. A one year starter that made the 2nd Team All Big in 2019, Honorable Mention in 2018. Josh Uche was a heavy-rotational player as a junior and led the team in sacks on a unit that included Devin Bush, Rashan Gary, and Chase Winovich. He repeated as the team’s leading sack artist as the full time starter in 2019 as a senior. Uche has exciting potential that stems from his versatility, explosion, and bend. The twitchy defender plays smart and can be moved around based on the situation, but he will make his money off the edge. He needs to bulk up a bit so he can handle the pro-power game, but at the very least he will be a solid 3rd down defender that a creative mind can use in multiple roles.
*If you like Zack Baun for NYG, you have to like Uche a couple rounds later. Uche had to sit behind some really talented edge rushers at Michigan but when he got his shot in 2019, he proved he can handle it. Some teams hate the 1-year starters and I understand why, but I think he is worth the gamble if he is around at the start of day 3. He would be a perfect BUCK fit in the new scheme as long as his medicals check out.
12. Julian Okwara / Notre Dame / 6’4 – 252
Grade: 76
Summary: Senior entry from Charlotte, North Carolina. A two year starter that had his 2019 cut short because of a broken leg. Brother of current Lions defensive end Romeo Okwara. A native of Nigeria that moved to the states when he was 8 years old. Julian will likely grade out slightly better than his brother but there are questions whether or not he will progress in the same manner. He had a very solid 2018 where his burst and bend were able to disrupt the opposition. However he disappeared and seemed like a different player before his injury as a senior. The position he plays, the last name, and his 2018 could cause a team to gamble but he is more developmental than he is ready for NFL action.
*High risk, high reward prospect that I think fits best as a stand up 3-4 outside linebacker. I think he ends up going higher than where I have him pegged right now for what its worth. I really didn’t like what I saw against Georgia, Michigan, and Southern California when he was matched up against pro-caliber linemen. Overmatched when it came to power and strength and we aren’t talking about a special athlete off the ball either. He looks the part and he was good in 2018, that’s all I have to go on really.
13. Bradlee Anae / Utah / 6’3 – 257
Grade: 75
Summary: Senior entry from Laie, Hawaii. Three year starter that won the 2019 Morris Trophy Award, given to the Pac 12’s top lineman. Two time 1st Team All Pac 12 and 2019 All American. Anae’s production, competitive style of play, and strong week at the Senior Bowl create a lot of arrows toward him being a quality NFL starter. However there are a lot of warts on tape that center around his overall athletic ability and upside. He has tight hips, doesn’t play a good arm extension game, and won’t beat many tackles up the edge. He projects to be a rotational third down player that can be trusted to make things happen on occasion, but not consistently.
*From the beginning of the season through the entire process up to now, I have had Anae as an early day 3 pick. No. I’m not being stubborn. I’ve had dozens and dozens of grades fluctuate up and down multiple rounds since September. I simply just don’t see an every down impact guy here, but by no means do I dislike him. He brings great energy to a defense and he knows how to win in traffic. I just see a limit to how much impact he can make play to play and is best suited for a number three role that comes on to the field in specific situations.
14. Alton Robinson / Syracuse / 6’3 – 264
Grade: 74
Summary: Senior entry from Converse, Texas. Three year starter for Syracuse after spending his freshman season at Northeastern Oklahoma A& M. Earned 2nd Team All ACC honors in 2018 after finishing third in the conference with 17 tackles for loss and second with 10 sacks. Took a step back as a senior but still earned Honorable Mention honors. Robinson checks a lot of boxes that coaches and scouts look for in a high ceiling edge rusher prospect. He has a strong presence and showed flashes of proper pad level, agility, and finishing ability. There are a lot of inconsistencies in his arsenal but he has produced enough across multiple years against both the run and pass to show there is something to work with. He can be a rotational player early on with the upside of being a quality starter.
*Robinson is similar to Okwara. He just didn’t look the same in 2019 that he did in 2018, that is a red flag to me. It’s not like he saw a massive amount of double teams or anything but I think coaches saw his 2018 tape when scouting and they found ways to neutralize him. Still good enough to be a 4th or 5th rounder, but I was projecting early day 2 when the season began.
15. Alex Highsmith / Charlotte / 6’3 - 248
Grade: 74
Summary: Fifth year senior from Wilmington, North Carolina. A former walk on that started for two years. In those two years, he earned 1st Team All Conference USA both seasons while adding a 3rd Team All American accolade in 2019. Highsmith set, and then broke, Charlotte’s single season tackle for loss record over his junior and senior seasons. He showed flashes of dominance and despite the lack of ideal tools when it comes to size and speed, created optimism around what he can be in the NFL. He has a lot of inconsistencies that stem from a lack of power and pure explosion, but in a game and specific role where a lot of the action is played in a phone booth, Highsmith’s quickness and low center of gravity along with crafty hands and footwork could carve out a role for him as a situational edge rusher.
*There are a few scouts that really like this kid and have projected him to go day 2. I liked him enough on tape to recommend him for Shrine week, but I never saw anything more than day three. I then got to see him up close and personal at Shrine and walked away with the same thought, day 3. He is similar to Oshane Ximines but a notch below across the board.
16. Delontae Scott / SMU: 74
17. Trevis Gipson / Tulsa: 74
18. James Lynch / Baylor: 73
19. Jonathan Garvin / Miami: 73
20. Carter Coughlin / Minnesota: 73
21. DJ Wonnum / South Carolina: 72
22. Kenny Willekes / Michigan State: 72
23. Jason Stowbridge / North Carolina: 72
24. Nick Coe / Auburn: 72
25. Azur Kamara / Kansas: 71
NYG APPROACH
While it is difficult to exactly pinpoint which kind of edge presence NYG will go after, I think this is going to be addressed with one of their first four picks. As I said earlier, you can look for the BUCK (pass rushing linebacker) or the CRASH (3-4/4-3 DE hybrid). Because of what they have in Carter, Ximines, and Fackrell, I think they are going to lean toward the CRASH end. This is a spot that will demand more size and presence, not just pure edge speed and explosion. I do think they will add both throughout the weekend, however. In addition, if a top value drops to them and it is more of a BUCK type presence, I think they pull that trigger.
Now, I think NYG will lean toward offensive line with their first pick at 4. That approach opens the door for this EDGE presence at the top of round 2. One of the CRASH end candidates could slip through the cracks right in to their lap like Epenesa, Gross-Matos, Davidson, Lewis…etc. One of the BUCK guys could slip in to their laps like Chaisson or Baun. These stacks (or ranks) could slightly alter based on what NYG feels they need more but no matter the case, there will be someone available that helps this team right away. Remember, this team wants real versatility and I think they will weigh a lot when their second pick is on the clock.
Hopeful one of Gross-Matos or Epenesa is there at #36.
thought provoking.
Any comments on which edge guys seem to do well with drops or coverage?
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Not if Tristan Wirfs has anything to say about it. Ha ha ha
Yep, I think this is the right play, particularly if Simmons is off the board. If JAX isn't the team, trade down a few picks, grab Wirfs, and they trade back up with the extra picks into the first round for YGM.
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Sy disagrees with me, but it would have been better to have lost that last game to the Skins.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Not if Tristan Wirfs has anything to say about it. Ha ha ha
Young might be the reason Wirfs eventually moves to RG...
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In comment 14861397 Eric from BBI said:
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Sy disagrees with me, but it would have been better to have lost that last game to the Skins.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Not if Tristan Wirfs has anything to say about it. Ha ha ha
Young might be the reason Wirfs eventually moves to RG...
You can run, but you cannot hide....(j/k)
I don't think that is a proper way to view it - because under that approach you are objectively stating every position group hols the same value, which simply isn't the case.
You can easily make the case that the 9th ranked EDGE player is better than the 2nd ranked offensive guard for example
Yes - if you have a higher grade on the 2nd OC than you do the 8th EDGE - go for it. No dispute here.
They didn't really play with those roles in the Giants 4-3 scheme back then, it was strictly RDE / LDE
I have a hard time coming up with a scenario where NYG ignores the OL with both of their first picks.
If they go Simmons - I think they try to get one of those second tier OTs (Wilson / Jackson / Jones / Cleveland) or maybe the top OC on their board (Ruiz / Hennessey)
...which provide so many interesting insights!
As always, much appreciated Sy'56.
For BBIers who are as numerically nerdy as I am, here are the average Sy'56 grades for each position so far (25 players per position):
EDGE (76.4)
CB (75.6)
LB (73.5)
S (73.5)
DT (73.0)
Garvin
Summary: Junior entry from Lake Worth, Florida. Two year starter that had a breakout season in 2018 with 17.5 tackles for loss, 5 sacks, and 5 pass breakups. He didn’t quite match that level of production as a junior in 2019 but he still flashed the upside that will fit in to any edge role the NFL demands. He has the body and movement capability to provide a scary and versatile skill set, but needs to add more consistent playing strength and weight before he can be an every down player. His inconsistencies are maddening to watch week to week, but if his paired with the right coach and he applies himself, Garvin has quality starter potential.
*High upside - doesn't always play hard or up to his potential. Needs time
Willekes
Summary: Fifth year senior from Rockford, Michigan. Three year starter that was self manufactured in to a three time All Big 10 performer and the conference’s 2018 Defensive Lineman of the Year. Production was through the roof over those three seasons, totaling 41 tackles for loss, 26 sacks, and 229 tackles. He was a consistent force, plain and simple. Willekes was a walk on for a reason and he may come in to the NFL with a similar type-label. He lacks tools across the board and will need to find ways to defy the odds. A team will likely need to put him in a 3-4 outside linebacker role where he can continue to line up wide and play the angle game he did in college. One thing he will without-a-doubt bring to the table, however, is pure hustle and constant attention to his craft. He can be a stud special teamer that can be given time to enhance his tool set.
*Coaches will love working with him because of his approach - the question is can he overcome crappy cards? Worse athletes have had success - so it is possible.
Coughlin
Summary: Senior entry from Eden Prarie, Minnesota. Three year starter that was Honorable Mention in 2017 and 2nd Team in both 2018 and 2019. Coughlin played primarily off the edge for the Gophers but his role may have to be tweaked at the next level, as he simply doesn’t have the frame to handle every down duty on the outside. That said, he looks like a natural when dropping in to coverage and he plays a comfortable game in space. He could be an ideal, yet rare, candidate to make the move to off-ball linebacker while still carrying the ability to impact the passing game on third down. His 40 career tackles for loss, 22.5 career sacks, and 7 career forced fumbles combined with sneaky speed and quickness can be used on more than just special teams.
*Love this kid as a project player - move him to ILB that can blitz on passing downs.
I really like Epenesa and he would be a target of mine if we were to trade back into mid round 1.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Another reason why Giants are going OT with their first pick....
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Yep.
Chase Young has been standing in the mirror for months now checking out how he looks in maroon and gold.
S*** F***
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
I agree but I'm not ready to crown Young yet either. Clowney once looked like a surefire superstar and yet Mack, the 5th pick in the same draft wound up being a much, much better pass rusher.
Speaking of the Badgers, still waiting for your take on ILB Orr (though I gather you doubt he'll play on Sundays).
I agree with Eric -- he would have been a great get,
Eric, we have Penn State connections, Sean Spencer, as well. If the Giants go OT in round 1 then Lewis is among my favorites for round 2 unless Gross-Matos is there.
Jaguars are much better for that. Hopefully Jags are looking QB rather than Raiders. Giants could be looking at 3rd or 4th rated OT on their board at 12. If they have them ranked similar, fine. But I doubt that’s the case. If they traded down to 12, could do Murray and Gross-Matos, with OL at 36
I really like Epenesa and he would be a target of mine if we were to trade back into mid round 1.
Role wise and hand strength very similar
Tuck was more explosive and bendy
Speaking of the Badgers, still waiting for your take on ILB Orr (though I gather you doubt he'll play on Sundays).
Orr is a thumper - and those guys are becoming less and less frequent. He will be an UDFA that needs to impress enough on special teams and not embarrass himself enough in coverage
#26 on my stack
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Long Beach, California. Two year starter that has been a main piece to the Boise State defense all three seasons. Began his career leading the conference with 11 sacks, earning 1st Team All Mountain West in 2017. Repeated his appearance on the 1st Team All Mountain West team in both 2018 and 2019 in addition to being named 2nd Team All American in 2019. Left school as the all time leader in career sacks in conference history. Weaver’s production and developed skill set will create a credible cause for optimism. He knows what to do and how to do it. The question will revolve around his lack of ideal tools revolving around his speed and quickness. He didn’t produce against NFL caliber talent and there will be a gamble on the skill set translating to NFL action. He projects as a backup early in his career.
*Also haven't heard good things about his work ethic an attitude.
Re: Chaisson.. I've heard a few times now on separate occasions that he will go much higher than people expect. I'm guessing that lands him within the top 12 picks.
Re: Chaisson.. I've heard a few times now on separate occasions that he will go much higher than people expect. I'm guessing that lands him within the top 12 picks.
I am also concerned about Chaisson's arm length at 32 1/4". That is short for a pass rusher especially when you consider that all of the top OT's in this crop range from 34 to over 36". Not many pure pass rushers are successful with short arms.
Jedrick Wills was interviewed by Kirwan and Miller, and he was asked who his toughest competition was in college, and his answer was Uche.
As a prospect I would grade Young higher, Bosa had injury concerns. But obviously if you compare what he did last year, different story.
Me, too! I think he's terrific. Plays strong and can get to the passer.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
How about Tampa Bay, if they only made that field goal.
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I love my Badgers and Baun is your typical UW 'develop them through coaching, teaching and a stellar weight/nutrition program' magic -- but he may not be what we need.
Speaking of the Badgers, still waiting for your take on ILB Orr (though I gather you doubt he'll play on Sundays).
Orr is a thumper - and those guys are becoming less and less frequent. He will be an UDFA that needs to impress enough on special teams and not embarrass himself enough in coverage
Thanks. He didn't make your list at all. I agree coverage is a question mark, but he showed an impressive talent for getting to the QB from the inside.
Jedrick Wills was interviewed by Kirwan and Miller, and he was asked who his toughest competition was in college, and his answer was Uche.
Couple medical red flags bumped him down a tad.
Also some teams don't love the measurements / power
I'm not sure if he left early b/c he needed to or b/c he got horrible advice.
and I can very easily see the Giants not taking an OL in their first 2 picks if there's a run on them on early on.
I can see it, yes. I think he is going to follow Leonard Williams around - some CRASH end, some DT. Majority snaps inside the OT.
Hands, Bull-rush, Counter moves.
He really fits the Giants scheme well as a 3-4 DE, 5-tech.
I like how he beats OTs inside by attacking the inside shoulder.
Would not surprise me if Bill Belichick takes him at 23. Epenesa seems like the classic Belichick DL/EDGE
I'm really pulling for the kid.
Sy.. Interested to hear your thoughts on him...
Understood. The guys that like Baun REALLY like Baun. And to be honest - someone asked me to create a Mock for their website and I gave them to NE at 23 (first round)
One thing that has me keeping him out of round 1 - I don't see any guys that he really compares to. It's not vital, obviously, but how many edge guys come in at under 240 pounds without any other elite traits and perform? Matthews is a size comparison but he was a more explosive athlete with elite 3 Cone / Shuttle / jumps when it came to workouts.
I see Kyle Van Noy here. Obviously not a bad player - but a no-doubt 2nd rounder? I don't see him in that kind of tier but I do acknowledge he will be and should be in the discussion.
I'm really pulling for the kid.
Sy.. Interested to hear your thoughts on him...
Lynch
Summary: Junior entry from Round Rock, Texas. Two year starter than earned 1st Team All Big 12 honors both seasons. Lynch really broke out as a junior, winning the Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year Award while gathering 19.5 TFL and 13.5 sacks. He also caused 3 fumbles, broke up 5 passes, and blocked 2 kicks. To be blunt, Lynch completely dominated despite not having top tier tools. He plays smart and physical with a style that can fit into multiple roles across multiple schemes. He won’t bring that kind of production to the NFL, but he projects to be a sturdy 3-4 defensive end that will make the occasional play in addition to doing a lot of the dirty work.
I don’t know that you can be a prototypical 3-4 olb without burst. He recorded a 1.65 10 yd split and his arms are short.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
of course we needed to lose that game. I understand why the coach or the players didn't want to. But any person who thinks a OT win against the hapless redskins means anything is, for a lack of a better word, "clueless".
You would be in the driver seat in picking a widely regarded all-pro or in a superior trade down position. Either way we would have been sitting on gold.
I don’t know that you can be a prototypical 3-4 olb without burst. He recorded a 1.65 10 yd split, a 7.0+ three cone, and his arms are short. His measurables project better as an ILB or a Kyle Van noy type.
He is so consistent, plays smart, hits his mark on the 2nd level, has the required size. He may not not blow people up like Wirf or Becton, but i don't need highlight reel plays from my tackle.
He is so consistent, plays smart, hits his mark on the 2nd level, has the required size. He may not not blow people up like Wirf or Becton, but i don't need highlight reel plays from my tackle.
Thomas is my wildcard as well. I think Sy will have a high grade on him, and NYG might as well, considering he projects as a LT. A trade down to 7-10 and still getting Thomas would be awesome.
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Thoughts on Curtis Weaver?
#26 on my stack
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Long Beach, California. Two year starter that has been a main piece to the Boise State defense all three seasons. Began his career leading the conference with 11 sacks, earning 1st Team All Mountain West in 2017. Repeated his appearance on the 1st Team All Mountain West team in both 2018 and 2019 in addition to being named 2nd Team All American in 2019. Left school as the all time leader in career sacks in conference history. Weaver’s production and developed skill set will create a credible cause for optimism. He knows what to do and how to do it. The question will revolve around his lack of ideal tools revolving around his speed and quickness. He didn’t produce against NFL caliber talent and there will be a gamble on the skill set translating to NFL action. He projects as a backup early in his career.
*Also haven't heard good things about his work ethic an attitude.
Thank you!
Understood, but it’s the 1.59 10 yd split that Matthews had, that was imo very eye opening. I’m not saying he won’t be good, he’s a very smooth athlete but he reminds me more of Joe Schobert than Clay. And Schobert was a fantastic edge prospect coming out
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Check out Clay Mathews combine numbers. Almost identical. 3 cone Matthews had a 6.9. Hes very twitchy and quick with a burst. Baun showed a burst and play speed at Wisconsin. Anyone who views this guy as an ILB is not doing him justice.
Understood, but it’s the 1.59 10 yd split that Matthews had, that was imo very eye opening. I’m not saying he won’t be good, he’s a very smooth athlete but he reminds me more of Joe Schobert than Clay. And Schobert was a fantastic edge prospect coming out
Burst off the line is the issue with the 1.59 split, I get it. Watching him play I never saw a lack of getting off the line or burst. I did notice quite often he’s quick to jump the snap. When I see him I see clay. Even in he way he throws his body around. We see it slightly differently. Either way we both see an nfl starter which is the key. I would be very happy if nabbed him round 2. Personally, I think he’s going back end of round 1. I could see the patriots liking this kid a lot even though he doesn’t have the size that BB looks for.
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In comment 14861714 Tuckrule said:
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Check out Clay Mathews combine numbers. Almost identical. 3 cone Matthews had a 6.9. Hes very twitchy and quick with a burst. Baun showed a burst and play speed at Wisconsin. Anyone who views this guy as an ILB is not doing him justice.
Understood, but it’s the 1.59 10 yd split that Matthews had, that was imo very eye opening. I’m not saying he won’t be good, he’s a very smooth athlete but he reminds me more of Joe Schobert than Clay. And Schobert was a fantastic edge prospect coming out
Burst off the line is the issue with the 1.59 split, I get it. Watching him play I never saw a lack of getting off the line or burst. I did notice quite often he’s quick to jump the snap. When I see him I see clay. Even in he way he throws his body around. We see it slightly differently. Either way we both see an nfl starter which is the key. I would be very happy if nabbed him round 2. Personally, I think he’s going back end of round 1. I could see the patriots liking this kid a lot even though he doesn’t have the size that BB looks for.
Well, I’ll watch more film, I’ve only seen 3 games so I could very well be missing a good chunk of head turning plays. Timing the snap is an elite trait to have and bodes very well for NFL success.
And if you can't trade down?
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pick Gross-Matos and an OT in the first if you can swing a pair of #1s or extra picks in the move to move up from #36.
And if you can't trade down?
My strategy:
Is Okudah available? If yes. Pick him.
If not, I’m probably selecting Thomas or Willis. I’d prefer either over Wirfs, who I think is destined in time to become a very good RG. If neither project to LT but are solid RT’s, I’m targeting Penei Sewell next April anyway as I would dump Solder opening a huge need there. Chances are we’re gonna be among the 3-5 worst teams this coming year.
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pick Gross-Matos and an OT in the first if you can swing a pair of #1s or extra picks in the move to move up from #36.
And if you can't trade down?
Tough spot. I don't love the OT options at #4. If I'm going OT there, I want a franchise LT to protect Jones' blindside. Wills and Wirfs look like a RT to me. I do really like the upside of Wirfs and prefer him to Wills, but can they play LT? I'd agree Wills has a high floor, but what's his ceiling? Not in love. Becton is a gamble. Thomas in pass pro when I watched him was Flowersesque with the waist bending and grabbing, but he has the extensive power conference experience and might have a higher ceiling at LT than the others if they fix his footwork and grabbing.
I'd be pleased with Okudah at #4, not a fan of Simmons at that lofty spot, wouldn't be thrilled with Brown at this point in time, even as a pure BPA pick.
Depends on how you grade the lot. I have Okudah above the OTs and Simmons as I don't value ILB or FS as highly. Others don't agree. I'm also not a need picker especially in the top 5, I want TALENT.
Can't say nicest crop of CBs in the league with 2 guys who haven't proven to be anything in the league yet.
SEC title game and the postseason in general he struggled in pass pro as the competition revved up.
Facing Chase Young twice a year is going to suck.
Eric. You are most certainly NOT alone. Losing woul dhave been the logical most logical course of action given long term strategy and risk-benefit analysis for the NYG. I have never been so upset at winning a game in my life.
As a fan, I sure as hell would rather be picking Chase Young at #2, rather than picking #4 with no blue goose OT available.
I share this sentiment. I want a GOOD OC, if he is available.
If you’re in the top 10, it’s about the player, not necessarily the pick where they are drafted. When people say “I don’t like Wirfs at 4 but absolutely at 8” that makes no sense to me. Just take the guy, especially if no trade offers are out there. Gettleman did that with Daniel Jones. Seems to have worked out.
Spending another premium draft pick on a CB would be a massive mistake, unless you are convinced this guy is Revis. And even then, it's a tough call.
We are a team that is still rebuilding with our franchise QB in the fold. Time to get him some protection and mold the identity of this team, it's been far too long now and it will continue if we fail to address it. I just don't think CB is the way to go considering the moves we have made at CB the past 2 offseasons.
I would say 10% chance Young is there at 4
I would say 75% chance Simmons is there at 4
I would say 25% chance Okudah is there
Don't sleep on this teams wanting to trade up for the QB though. MIA has so many assets to make the move and Tua fits their culture.
LAC - there isn't a team in the league that needs a splash more than them.
I expect the team to struggle in 2020, including the OL. It would not shock me if the starting tackles at Solder and Fleming because upgrades from the draft are no gimme, and coaches tend to prefer veterans. I don't want to pick an OT at #4 because of urgent need unless you believe in the prospect. That's how you stay in the cellar of pro football. If you believe he's the best pick for your team, so be it. For me, it's not the best use of #4 this year, so we're at philosophical impasse yet again. We're far from set at CB other than there's hope on paper. Bottom line is I don't look at 2020 without looking at 2021 and beyond.
If you’re in the top 10, it’s about the player, not necessarily the pick where they are drafted. When people say “I don’t like Wirfs at 4 but absolutely at 8” that makes no sense to me. Just take the guy, especially if no trade offers are out there. Gettleman did that with Daniel Jones. Seems to have worked out.
Next year has a blue goose All American can’t miss guy. Penei Sewell from Oregon. I’ve been talking him up for months here. And if 2020 is another train wreck 4-12/5-11 type year and we dump Solder (as many here expect) we will have a need along the OL. An 2021 OL of below might get me hard:
Sewell-Hernandez-Ruiz-Zeitler-Willis
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the way the college game is now, I don’t think we are likely to see many “blue goose” type OL come out. I mean, when was the last top 5 “blue goose/“can’t miss” OT taken? Ronnie Stanley was taken 6th overall in 2016 but even he wasn’t considered a can’t miss guy. Some of the others like Joeckel and Matthews didn’t perform well. But then you have the Lane Johnson’s who ended up being great.
If you’re in the top 10, it’s about the player, not necessarily the pick where they are drafted. When people say “I don’t like Wirfs at 4 but absolutely at 8” that makes no sense to me. Just take the guy, especially if no trade offers are out there. Gettleman did that with Daniel Jones. Seems to have worked out.
Next year has a blue goose All American can’t miss guy. Penei Sewell from Oregon. I’ve been talking him up for months here. And if 2020 is another train wreck 4-12/5-11 type year and we dump Solder (as many here expect) we will have a need along the OL. An 2021 OL of below might get me hard:
Sewell-Hernandez-Ruiz-Zeitler-Willis
He is going to be the first non QB taken
Is NYG really going to be that bad?
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In comment 14861908 ryanmkeane said:
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the way the college game is now, I don’t think we are likely to see many “blue goose” type OL come out. I mean, when was the last top 5 “blue goose/“can’t miss” OT taken? Ronnie Stanley was taken 6th overall in 2016 but even he wasn’t considered a can’t miss guy. Some of the others like Joeckel and Matthews didn’t perform well. But then you have the Lane Johnson’s who ended up being great.
If you’re in the top 10, it’s about the player, not necessarily the pick where they are drafted. When people say “I don’t like Wirfs at 4 but absolutely at 8” that makes no sense to me. Just take the guy, especially if no trade offers are out there. Gettleman did that with Daniel Jones. Seems to have worked out.
Next year has a blue goose All American can’t miss guy. Penei Sewell from Oregon. I’ve been talking him up for months here. And if 2020 is another train wreck 4-12/5-11 type year and we dump Solder (as many here expect) we will have a need along the OL. An 2021 OL of below might get me hard:
Sewell-Hernandez-Ruiz-Zeitler-Willis
He is going to be the first non QB taken
Is NYG really going to be that bad?
I personally think 6 wins is the NYG ceiling. If you figure Lawrence and Fields go 1-2, 6 wins obviously won’t be bad enough for #3. Dave (or new GM) would need to facilitate a trade.
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How likely do you think it would be that the Giants end up with a choice between Young and Simmons at 4th overall (either because QBs went 1, 2 & 3 via trades or 2 QBs go and Detroit goes Okudah)?
I would say 10% chance Young is there at 4
I would say 75% chance Simmons is there at 4
I would say 25% chance Okudah is there
Don't sleep on this teams wanting to trade up for the QB though. MIA has so many assets to make the move and Tua fits their culture.
LAC - there isn't a team in the league that needs a splash more than them.
Music to my ears. If they can just get another 2nd rounder...I'd really like to get Simmons, but if they can drop back, get one of the OTs and a 2nd 2nd rounder so they get Ruiz or a C appropriate for that slot I'd be happy as the proverbial pig in shit.
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Can you point us to a bad game for Thomas in pass pro.
SEC title game and the postseason in general he struggled in pass pro as the competition revved up.
Looks pretty good to me. Yup he got beat once in the game against a future 1st round pick...So not prefect.
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It would be very “New England” to build this defense around the secondary rather than a high end pass rusher.
I always look ahead, especially when I think the NYG are going to have a rough year. But thank you for everything you do here.
I go Wills first but Thomas over the rest.
Can’t tell if this is directed at me or Rasbutant? I’m with you on taking Okudah if (I’d much rather trade back) we stay at 4. If Baker can move to the slot and continue last years progress, receivers will have a really hard time getting open in a secondary with Bradberry/Okudah on the outside and him in the slot.
He's tremendous when the play is in front of him but the grey areas of his game are exactly the ones NFL receivers will take him to school on. I want this part clear. He is a very good CB prospect but he's in that same group as Simmons/Brown/Jeudy/Lamb/Wills.
He's tremendous when the play is in front of him but the grey areas of his game are exactly the ones NFL receivers will take him to school on. I want this part clear. He is a very good CB prospect but he's in that same group as Simmons/Brown/Jeudy/Lamb/Wills.
I tend to agree. Light blue chip with a handful of other guys.
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lose the snark.
Can’t tell if this is directed at me or Rasbutant? I’m with you on taking Okudah if (I’d much rather trade back) we stay at 4. If Baker can move to the slot and continue last years progress, receivers will have a really hard time getting open in a secondary with Bradberry/Okudah on the outside and him in the slot.
rasbutant
Classic Blue Goose OT's are extinct b/c those offenses are archaic and not used in CFB anymore.
Classic Blue Goose OT's are extinct b/c those offenses are archaic and not used in CFB anymore.
The only knock on him I’ve read so far has been questions about his speed/quickness. But even then, the criticism was mitigated when the write up said:
“ If there’s something you worry about with Sewell it’s his high school shuttle time (4.91), which is slower than you’d like. It’s also far from glacial, and Sewell’s arm length, strength and technique more than make up for a lack of elite quickness. That shuttle has also assuredly improved in Oregon's strength and conditioning program, which is among the best in the country.”
We might suck three more, still much work to do and DG batting maybe .500 if he's lucky.
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I agree with you for the most part but it seems every year we say to ourselves “ah the value isn’t there let’s wait until next year” and we have absolutely sucked for about three years now
We might suck three more, still much work to do and DG batting maybe .500 if he's lucky.
I am not a DG fan by any stretch but that's not a fair way to evaluate him (i.e., in a vacuum). It would be his picks hit rate versus historical hit rate at same position.
make no mistake WR is also a huge need. shep is a concussion away from being jordan reed and tate is a year older and presumably wasn't juicing all offseason like he was last year. one of these years he's going to fall off a cliff, and my guess is it's this year. he really didn't get much separation last year in his routes. this draft should be all about daniel jones.
they can deal with edge next year. rome wasn't built in a day and they aren't winning the super bowl this year.
fix the o-line and get a stud WR to compliment slayton
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#27 on the stack.
Saw him pretty closely at Shrine - I respect his game. A lot of hustle and he has good hands. Just didn't see the pop off the ball and he got swallowed by the bigger OTs down there. I wanted to see one of those traits at a higher level 0 didn't need to be both. Round 6/7 that could stick around for a couple years, giving him the opportunity to fill out and gain more functional power.
If you are willing to do the leg work, I'm sure it is possible
+1
If you throw out the mocks that are done to stimulate discussion rather than make educated predictions, draft night then unfolds in a pattern you've considered before, which makes it more fun as we anticipate who will be there for NYG.