NFT: USS Theodore Roosevelt Situation

In comment 14862997 Matt M. said:

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How is blaming the media political?

Maybe you haven't been following politics lately.

In comment 14863137 Milton said:

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In comment 14862997 Matt M. said: Quote: How is blaming the media political? Maybe you haven't been following politics lately.

In any case we should probably just drop it. No harm no foul.

In comment 14863137 Milton said:

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In comment 14862997 Matt M. said: Quote: How is blaming the media political? Maybe you haven't been following politics lately.

If I mentioned specific networks/publications maybe. Not media in general. This story wasn't sensationalized and covered from a perspective other than the military, in general?

In comment 14862907 RC in MD said:

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You devalue your...not value.

Lol and that is where the Navy differs waaaay more than the other branches. Still runs on a traditional caste system.

In comment 14863128 RC in MD said:

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When you’re a commander, you make decisions that may jeopardize your career based on what you deem as important to you. So while we can all pretty much agree that Crozier was wrong in what he did in sending out the letter, it was most definitely not a mistake but a calculated action. Maybe he didn't expect to be fired so fast, but I'm sure that he wasn't surprised that his career came to an end. That is the burden of command in forest of circumstances.

People that didn't serve are having trouble coming to these terms. There is a way things need to be done so you don't set precedent for others. He knew he was toast as soon as he sent that, but he did something you don't see too many in command do in the Navy, sacrifice himself for his enlisted sailors (even if I think it was slightly misguided it is something I can deeply fucking respect).

In comment 14863000 Man In The Box said:

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The only thing saving Modley from being a worst SECNAV than Mabus, is that he was the acting SECNAV. I don't think I have ever seen a military leader become hated so quickly by both civilians and military alike. That said the JOPA facebook page has had some great memes stemming from this PR fiasco.

Fuck Ray Mabus, fuck that guy so hard.

In comment 14862569 Burtman said:

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In comment 14862267 thrunthrublue said: Quote: Were happy the captain chose saving lives and health over proper navy protocol, the captain acted like a wartime leader......putting his crew first. A hero. And you would be wrong. A "wartime leader" or anybody who has ever served knows it is mission first and people second. That is how it must be. If people were first the mission would not be done.

My son in law is an MH-60S pilot currently detailed to the Roosevelt on deployment. He does not consider the CO a hero...he had other feelings I won't share here.

In comment 14863246 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 14862907 RC in MD said: Quote: You devalue your...not value. Lol and that is where the Navy differs waaaay more than the other branches. Still runs on a traditional caste system.

Very true

In comment 14863267 rnargi said:

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In comment 14862569 Burtman said: Quote: In comment 14862267 thrunthrublue said: Quote: Were happy the captain chose saving lives and health over proper navy protocol, the captain acted like a wartime leader......putting his crew first. A hero. And you would be wrong. A "wartime leader" or anybody who has ever served knows it is mission first and people second. That is how it must be. If people were first the mission would not be done. My son in law is an MH-60S pilot currently detailed to the Roosevelt on deployment. He does not consider the CO a hero...he had other feelings I won't share here.

I've got a bunch of friends in -31, 87, & 154 and they all have nothing but good things to say about Chopper.

In comment 14863222 Matt M. said:

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In comment 14863137 Milton said: Quote: In comment 14862997 Matt M. said: Quote: How is blaming the media political? Maybe you haven't been following politics lately. If I mentioned specific networks/publications maybe. Not media in general. This story wasn't sensationalized and covered from a perspective other than the military, in general?

I really don't want to continue this because it risks jeopardizing the thread, but there are those who consider the media (in general) to be the enemy and they are on one side of the aisle. If you want to belabor the point the thread will get even more political than it has now become, but I'm not simply going to let you get away with pretending otherwise.

Don't take my word for it. Email Eric or Gidie and ask them if painting the media as a villain makes a thread political. It's a trigger.

None of this frick and frack has much to do with the thread. Its just two guys stuck in a micro loop and being stubborn about it.

If you care about the thread and fellow posters as you say...let the obsession go and engage elsewhere.

You are not mods nor thought police. Why lecture a grown man across two days as if this is a hill you can stand on. Beats me why media had to be introduced but so what?

What's the goal here?

Stubborn is BBI's middle name.

You are usually detached and cooler than average BBI

Hope all is well or on the way to better in your world

In comment 14863450 Bill2 said:

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You are usually detached and cooler than average BBI

Yes, but I can be very stubborn.

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Hope all is well or on the way to better in your world

I'm doing well, hunkering down is standard operating procedure for me. And you, my friend, how goes it?

Yeah. I have a lot more time on my hands when I don't have to travel.

Doubling down on my reading habits and getting through books on my list. Posting too much out of boredom. exercising more.

like many of us.

Take care. Good to hear you are well.

In comment 14863287 Man In The Box said:

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In comment 14863267 rnargi said: Quote: In comment 14862569 Burtman said: Quote: In comment 14862267 thrunthrublue said: Quote: Were happy the captain chose saving lives and health over proper navy protocol, the captain acted like a wartime leader......putting his crew first. A hero. And you would be wrong. A "wartime leader" or anybody who has ever served knows it is mission first and people second. That is how it must be. If people were first the mission would not be done. My son in law is an MH-60S pilot currently detailed to the Roosevelt on deployment. He does not consider the CO a hero...he had other feelings I won't share here. I've got a bunch of friends in -31, 87, & 154 and they all have nothing but good things to say about Chopper.

I also have a number of friends who have served with him and they have all sang his praise.

In comment 14863343 Bill2 said:

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None of this frick and frack has much to do with the thread. Its just two guys stuck in a micro loop and being stubborn about it. If you care about the thread and fellow posters as you say...let the obsession go and engage elsewhere. You are not mods nor thought police. Why lecture a grown man across two days as if this is a hill you can stand on. Beats me why media had to be introduced but so what? What's the goal here?

Bill and Milton - the media was introduced from a sociological perspective. As I stated, the media covers this purely from the humanitarian aspect of the Captain's actions, which resonates differently with the general public who have not served. That is why I started the thread in the first place, to see if veterans, especially Navy veterans, had a different perspective on the events. Their perspective has been very useful and the discussion has been interesting and chiefly apolitical.

He served in WW2 and was in the Battle of Saipan. He was also there when the Indianapolis delivered the two bombs and when the Enola Gay took off to drop its bomb on Hiroshima.

I posted this a couple times before, but for those of you who missed it...
My father's WW2 interview - ( New Window )

In comment 14863858 Milton said:

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He served in WW2 and was in the Battle of Saipan. He was also there when the Indianapolis delivered the two bombs and when the Enola Gay took off to drop its bomb on Hiroshima. I posted this a couple times before, but for those of you who missed it... My father's WW2 interview - ( New Window )

Thanks for sharing this again. I recall you posting it before. Did you also serve?

In comment 14863889 Matt M. said:

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In comment 14863858 Milton said: Quote: He served in WW2 and was in the Battle of Saipan. He was also there when the Indianapolis delivered the two bombs and when the Enola Gay took off to drop its bomb on Hiroshima. I posted this a couple times before, but for those of you who missed it... My father's WW2 interview - ( New Window ) Thanks for sharing this again. I recall you posting it before. Did you also serve?

No I would never have had the courage to do what my father did.

In comment 14863895 Milton said:

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In comment 14863889 Matt M. said: Quote: In comment 14863858 Milton said: Quote: He served in WW2 and was in the Battle of Saipan. He was also there when the Indianapolis delivered the two bombs and when the Enola Gay took off to drop its bomb on Hiroshima. I posted this a couple times before, but for those of you who missed it... My father's WW2 interview - ( New Window ) Thanks for sharing this again. I recall you posting it before. Did you also serve? No I would never have had the courage to do what my father did.

I can relate. First, if your dad is still with us, please thank him for his service. It sounds like he had an extraordinary experience, being involved in very historic moments.

Second, I often think back to 25+ years ago when I was graduating college. I was considering enlisting and applying for OCS. Ultimately, I did not and sometimes wonder of that was a good thing or not and how differently my life may have turned out. Before that, I wanted to attend the USNA, but the verbal score on my SAT was 10 points too low to apply, while my math score was high enough to be very competitive. Again, I often think about his differenty my life may have turned out.

Either way, it is unlikely I would have been married to my wife and have these 3 wonderful kids, so I have no complaints. It's just something I think about.

In comment 14863858 Milton said:

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He served in WW2 and was in the Battle of Saipan. He was also there when the Indianapolis delivered the two bombs and when the Enola Gay took off to drop its bomb on Hiroshima. I posted this a couple times before, but for those of you who missed it... My father's WW2 interview - ( New Window )

Thanks for posting this!!! Great listen, understand!!! Thanks for your father’s service as well!!!

In comment 14863964 Phatbrew said:

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Thanks for posting this!!! Great listen, understand!!! Thanks for your father’s service as well!!!

Haha yeah you picked up on that! He was born in the back of a laundromat on Delancey Street and spoke in the LES vernacular with as thick an authentic accent as you will find.

In comment 14863905 Matt M. said:

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First, if your dad is still with us, please thank him for his service. It sounds like he had an extraordinary experience, being involved in very historic moments.

My dad passed away in 1981, but I appreciate the sentiment.

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Second, I often think back to 25+ years ago when I was graduating college. I was considering enlisting and applying for OCS. Ultimately, I did not and sometimes wonder of that was a good thing or not and how differently my life may have turned out. Before that, I wanted to attend the USNA, but the verbal score on my SAT was 10 points too low to apply, while my math score was high enough to be very competitive. Again, I often think about his differenty my life may have turned out. Either way, it is unlikely I would have been married to my wife and have these 3 wonderful kids, so I have no complaints. It's just something I think about.

The military was something I never considered, but I'm sure it would've done me good as a lack of discipline has been perhaps my biggest flaw in life.

In comment 14863905 Matt M. said:

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In comment 14863895 Milton said: Quote: In comment 14863889 Matt M. said: Quote: In comment 14863858 Milton said: Quote: He served in WW2 and was in the Battle of Saipan. He was also there when the Indianapolis delivered the two bombs and when the Enola Gay took off to drop its bomb on Hiroshima. I posted this a couple times before, but for those of you who missed it... My father's WW2 interview - ( New Window ) Thanks for sharing this again. I recall you posting it before. Did you also serve? No I would never have had the courage to do what my father did. I can relate. First, if your dad is still with us, please thank him for his service. It sounds like he had an extraordinary experience, being involved in very historic moments. Second, I often think back to 25+ years ago when I was graduating college. I was considering enlisting and applying for OCS. Ultimately, I did not and sometimes wonder of that was a good thing or not and how differently my life may have turned out. Before that, I wanted to attend the USNA, but the verbal score on my SAT was 10 points too low to apply, while my math score was high enough to be very competitive. Again, I often think about his differenty my life may have turned out. Either way, it is unlikely I would have been married to my wife and have these 3 wonderful kids, so I have no complaints. It's just something I think about.

I think your last paragraph is the key. It's not a bad thing to think about how things could have been different, but regrets are never good. And having a wonderful family is the true key to happiness as I've found in my life.

I went to USNA and commissioned in the Marine Corps almost 20 years ago. While it definitely set me on a trajectory for the life I have now, I've missed so much of my family and friends' lives. While on active duty, I spent just as much time deployed as I was home, putting my mom through too much heartache (having a twin brother being a USMA grad and an SF officer added to her heartache). I've lost some great friends, and while I feel like I've been truly fortunate, I'm not without my own issues.

After leaving active duty in 2010 after 8 years of active duty, I found true happiness as my wife and I have three wonderful kids today. I don't regret anything I've done in my military career (I'm now a reservist), but I would be lying if I didn't admit that there have been just as many hard times as good times...some too hard.

Remember the time prior to 2010, under a different tag name, RMC would periodically make contact during some of his rotation and catch up on Giants news.

RMC was a ground leader in some of the toughest fighting thrown our way. And did it more than one tour.

Our own Dunedin and his wife did tough tours during that time. Not just one, but multiple.

I know Dillon and one other BBI regular from that era also deserve our respect and thanks.

I remember the Midnchae handle(IIRC) maybe/probably slightly different. Long time ago. I must be getting old or something.

I was actually laughing this morning at your 1000 burpee per day workout. Damn, I may have done that many in my life - hate those effers.....5 Murphs per week?

In comment 14864102 Bill2 said:

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Remember the time prior to 2010, under a different tag name, RMC would periodically make contact during some of his rotation and catch up on Giants news. RMC was a ground leader in some of the toughest fighting thrown our way. And did it more than one tour. Our own Dunedin and his wife did tough tours during that time. Not just one, but multiple. I know Dillon and one other BBI regular from that era also deserve our respect and thanks.

Agree wholeheartedly. These folks deserve our upmost thanks. My brother was in special forces in Vietnam and I am just fully starting to understand his ordeal. He is 71 and his surviving brothers have told me more about his sacrifice than he has wanted to divulge. I have profound respect for everyone that has served.

In comment 14864102 Bill2 said:

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Remember the time prior to 2010, under a different tag name, RMC would periodically make contact during some of his rotation and catch up on Giants news. RMC was a ground leader in some of the toughest fighting thrown our way. And did it more than one tour. Our own Dunedin and his wife did tough tours during that time. Not just one, but multiple. I know Dillon and one other BBI regular from that era also deserve our respect and thanks.

Hey Bill...it's always great to see your posts. Haven't been posting much since I've been back after a long break. Life has been busy on my end with three little ones...well, one isn't so little these days at almost nine years old. But a two year old and a five year old definitely makes life more crazy.

Hope that your break from traveling has been relaxing for you. And please stay safe and healthy.
Ronnie

In comment 14864109 section125 said:

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I remember the Midnchae handle(IIRC) maybe/probably slightly different. Long time ago. I must be getting old or something. I was actually laughing this morning at your 1000 burpee per day workout. Damn, I may have done that many in my life - hate those effers.....5 Murphs per week?

You almost had it! It was Midn_Chae...great memory.

And yes, the 1000 burpees was a huge mistake...and the week long Murph was also a mistake. I've been dealing with what may be a sports hernia for several months, so I've been extra stupid doing those challenges. I even had my two year old pulling a 25lb sled yesterday while working out.

Seeing your posts reminds me to reach out by email.

I am so glad about your family.

And Ronnie, you seem content. Enjoy and Deserved.

For those not here at the time, both Ronnie a d Dunedin were Captains by their last tours.
Marines and Army respectively.

Im less sure of Dune. We tended to talk books we were reading at the time and the factionalism within Iraq at that time

In comment 14864130 Bill2 said:

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For those not here at the time, both Ronnie a d Dunedin were Captains by their last tours. Marines and Army respectively. Im less sure of Dune. We tended to talk books we were reading at the time and the factionalism within Iraq at that time

Dune is doing very well...he's busy with his brood as well and running marathons like a madman.

I took a few years off when I left active duty, so I'm two years behind my peers, but I'll be going into the board for LtCol this year...time sure does fly.

Taking care of yourself comes first.

I'd say all the best on the Lt.Col. recognition but my bet is that it's a slam dunk.

Yeah, Dune and I stay in touch via the Yankee threads. ( well except for now)

In comment 14864137 RC in MD said:

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In comment 14864130 Bill2 said: Quote: For those not here at the time, both Ronnie a d Dunedin were Captains by their last tours. Marines and Army respectively. Im less sure of Dune. We tended to talk books we were reading at the time and the factionalism within Iraq at that time Dune is doing very well...he's busy with his brood as well and running marathons like a madman. I took a few years off when I left active duty, so I'm two years behind my peers, but I'll be going into the board for LtCol this year...time sure does fly.

A little burnout after those tours, no doubt...best wishes on your board. Stay in, get those pension credits. Friend of mine in my brother's class stayed active in reserve(USN - submariner), made O-6 and has a nice backup pension.
I presume your daughter is doing well, which is wonderful.

In comment 14864293 section125 said:

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In comment 14864137 RC in MD said: Quote: In comment 14864130 Bill2 said: Quote: For those not here at the time, both Ronnie a d Dunedin were Captains by their last tours. Marines and Army respectively. Im less sure of Dune. We tended to talk books we were reading at the time and the factionalism within Iraq at that time Dune is doing very well...he's busy with his brood as well and running marathons like a madman. I took a few years off when I left active duty, so I'm two years behind my peers, but I'll be going into the board for LtCol this year...time sure does fly. A little burnout after those tours, no doubt...best wishes on your board. Stay in, get those pension credits. Friend of mine in my brother's class stayed active in reserve(USN - submariner), made O-6 and has a nice backup pension. I presume your daughter is doing well, which is wonderful.

She's doing very well, thank you. We had her annual sedated MRI scheduled for this month, but with COVID-19, we are postponing it for a bit. As she did not show any signs of tumors in her little body in last year's scan, her neurologist doesn't think it's of any concern to wait this out. And she's continued to hit all of her developmental milestones, so we feel very fortunate since other children with her condition don't have such positive growth.

I've got four more years until I hit my 20, but I will most likely stay in until the Corps force me to retire. Who knows if I'll ever sniff O6 since the reserves is a bit top heavy with only limited spaces for senior officers.

In comment 14864347 RC in MD said:

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She's doing very well, thank you. We had her annual sedated MRI scheduled for this month, but with COVID-19, we are postponing it for a bit. As she did not show any signs of tumors in her little body in last year's scan, her neurologist doesn't think it's of any concern to wait this out. And she's continued to hit all of her developmental milestones, so we feel very fortunate since other children with her condition don't have such positive growth. I've got four more years until I hit my 20, but I will most likely stay in until the Corps force me to retire. Who knows if I'll ever sniff O6 since the reserves is a bit top heavy with only limited spaces for senior officers.

Thank heavens on that. Always nervous until the MRI proves negative. Essential parental angst.

Yes, USMC being a "smaller" branch the top spots are more limited. USN would have more billets.

Stay safe.

on this thread and obviously in the real world too.

also anyone who did murph 5x in a week I'd love to get a reco on your pullup bar.

In comment 14864463 Eric on Li said:

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on this thread and obviously in the real world too. also anyone who did murph 5x in a week I'd love to get a reco on your pullup bar.

It was a total pain...first one felt great but the next six were like getting kicked in the nuts repeatedly.

As far as pull-up bar goes. I recommend something like this from Rogue that you can hang from your garage ceiling. I have a similar system that I bought years ago (8 or so years ago) that have been sturdy as hell in my garage. Also, since I don't do any form of CrossFit style kipping pull-ups, my bar doesn't get nearly as much abuse, hence it being sturdy after thousands of pull-ups.
Pull-up bar - ( New Window )

In comment 14864779 RC in MD said:

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In comment 14864463 Eric on Li said: Quote: on this thread and obviously in the real world too. also anyone who did murph 5x in a week I'd love to get a reco on your pullup bar. It was a total pain...first one felt great but the next six were like getting kicked in the nuts repeatedly. As far as pull-up bar goes. I recommend something like this from Rogue that you can hang from your garage ceiling. I have a similar system that I bought years ago (8 or so years ago) that have been sturdy as hell in my garage. Also, since I don't do any form of CrossFit style kipping pull-ups, my bar doesn't get nearly as much abuse, hence it being sturdy after thousands of pull-ups. Pull-up bar - ( New Window )

thank you - I had an old door frame one buried in my closet and I was hoping it'd be good enough to get by but it's on it's last legs. once you get used to rogue stuff it's hard to go back.

Is the assumption that the port call in Vietnam is where the virus was first contracted by sailors?

In comment 14866128 Matt M. said:

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Is the assumption that the port call in Vietnam is where the virus was first contracted by sailors?

Who knows ? A carrier has an underway replenishment every few days. The virus could have come over on anything that was shipped or any personnel that may have come on board from other ships. Although the sailors couldn't get off the ship anywhere except Vietnam, the pilots could have brought it back from any Naval Air Station in the Western Pacific.

Jim Sciutto
@jimsciutto
· 15m
Breaking: A sailor who tested positive for COVID-19 on the USS Theodore Roosevelt has died of coronavirus, says Navy. Nearly 600 sailors on board have now tested positive.

Excellent article that tries to provide a holistic view of Command at Sea and what that entails...Bottom line is that CAPT Crozier steered away from his command responsibilities of accomplishing the mission and towards one of ironically putting his ship and crew in more danger by broadcasting to others outside that chain of command that the ship was vulnerable. China and Russia I'm sure were listening too...
Command at Sea: What’s Love Got to Do with It? - ( New Window )

In comment 14866725 Joe in NC said:

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Excellent article that tries to provide a holistic view of Command at Sea and what that entails...Bottom line is that CAPT Crozier steered away from his command responsibilities of accomplishing the mission and towards one of ironically putting his ship and crew in more danger by broadcasting to others outside that chain of command that the ship was vulnerable. China and Russia I'm sure were listening too... Command at Sea: What’s Love Got to Do with It? - ( New Window )

The fact that this is lost on people blows my mind. Like the whole point of us spending a fuckton of money on the military is to have complete control over global affairs. Do people think the rest of the world is stopping because of COVID? The very complete opposite, this is the perfect time for the other massive players in the game to make moves or for another terrorist attack.

These guys signed on the dotted line, they know the risks. Sure the E4 and below generally get treated like trash, but as far as we know they are at practically at zero risk from COVID. E5 and below are compensated fairly (especially if they do their 20). The ones at risk on that ship are probably a bunch of fat chiefs that skirt by on weight standards because they are measured by other chiefs, while the officers have a strict enforcement code and are measured by the other chiefs. Then they get out and claim 50 percent disability for sleep apnea or they myriad of other health issues from being overweight that had nothing to do with their service. There is one of the reasons the military has health standards, and while they have gone away from them in recent times, this is may be an awakening for who they take. Especially in the next few years when people will be lining up to join because they can't get jobs.

The initial parts of the crew that were most affected and handicapped by the infection were the folks in the nuclear reactor maintenance and Quality Control Units.

Ok I get being concerned about that

Mis information or too much information then went to the crew in general from the Carrier Medical Team...causing a great deal of concern all over the ship

This looks like it isn't going to wind up a very black and white case study

In comment 14866743 Bill2 said:

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The initial parts of the crew that were most affected and handicapped by the infection were the folks in the nuclear reactor maintenance and Quality Control Units. Ok I get being concerned about that Mis information or too much information then went to the crew in general from the Carrier Medical Team...causing a great deal of concern all over the ship This looks like it isn't going to wind up a very black and white case study

If you ask a captain of an aircraft carrier what his biggest concerns are, I can almost guarantee you controlling scuttlebutt is top 3. Rumor and misinformation runs rampant. And the way some are portraying this out in the media you'd think this was a death sentence for the general population, I wouldn't be surprised if most the crew thought they were at legit risk. It's hard to explain to people, but you have very little interaction with the outside world on these ships. The internet is barely usable for 98 percent of the crew outside of email. For context I went to bodybuilding.com, and ordered something off their site. It literally took my whole 30 minute of allotment to complete the order. A task that routinely takes 2 minutes.

In comment 14866753 Zeke's Alibi said:

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The internet is barely usable for 98 percent of the crew outside of email. For context I went to bodybuilding.com, and ordered something off their site. It literally took my whole 30 minute of allotment to complete the order. A task that routinely takes 2 minutes.

Ha, satellite internet. Even on a merchant ship with only 20-30 crew and 5 stations, it is so effin slow as to be worse than dial up...

In comment 14866673 Ryan in Albany said:

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Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto · 15m Breaking: A sailor who tested positive for COVID-19 on the USS Theodore Roosevelt has died of coronavirus, says Navy. Nearly 600 sailors on board have now tested positive.

The first of more than a few, I'm afraid...