I think this is the big question almost two weeks from the draft. The last two premium draft picks Dave Gettleman has selected were Saquon Barkley & Daniel Jones. Both of these players need a strong OL in order for the potential to be reached. We have seen what both of these players can do & the thought of a strong OL protecting them is exciting.
We have seen how a poor OL can derail a team, does it make sense to pass on improving the line at #4? What good will it be if our premium investments the last two years can’t perform due to crappy line play?
I know the defense is abysmal, but we haven’t figured out the OL for a long time now - can this regime afford to go defense at #4?
About as stupid as this post. Since this is a virtual draft maybe DG can pull off a trade with himself. Give the fans watching a 1st.
An 8-8 team where the QB played well and came away relatively healthy and the defense was OK
Vs.
An 8-8 team where the QB had a sub par year and was getting killed on every other play but the defense played much better.
I agree. Get the damn OT it's about damn time!!!!
When was the last time the Giants defense played OK? I think Tuck and Strahan were still on the roster.
I wouldn't be upset with an O-line pick, btw.
Oh no oh no!!!
Look. If there was a can't miss OT worthy of the 4th overall pick I'd be fine with it. There's no denying the OL needs help.
But while there seems to be consensus among scouts and talent evaluators that the four best non-QBs are all on D (Young, Simmons, Okudah and Brown) opinions vary on the best OT.
So why force an OT pick?
BPA at 4 and 36.
We have a winner! Simple building of a team. You drafted a featured back. Drafted a franchise QB next season. They need protection. Protect your assets. Wills is absolutely a stud. The people who keep saying BPA it’s like your brain isn’t working. You don’t draft bpa. You draft bpa/need/value. If that’s the case let’s take Derrick brown. If not brown let’s take tua. I mean come on already. Everyone bitches about the lack of protection and no holes for barkley but let’s take some developmental tackle late when all we have is cam Flemming who stinks and nate solder on his last legs. Look at our offseason. It’s clear as day we are taking a tackle. He got a top tier corner. Got a starting ilb. Starting edge. He found a castoff former second round pick on the Dline. All he did offensively if get us a a swing tackle who is awful and should not start. Therefore, he will protect Daniel and he will draft a OT with the first pick. The whole he doesn’t play left tackle is the dumbest thing going. You draft tackles to protect your qb. Rushers come from every angle. You need bookend tackles. Wills is a great start.
I agree. Barring Young dropping, I am hoping for Wills. The criticism of him seems to me to be some of the same “concerns” on Ronnie Stanley. More athleticism and technically sound, high floor, low ceiling. Stanley’s “lower ceiling” turned out to be All-pro.
Too much of the time people get caught up in size/potential and get a hardon for the Bectons of the world. If they would just clean up X and their Y would stay healthy, they could be an all-time great.
Give me Wills any day of the week. I am hoping the Giants have a high grade on him, as need would meet BPA
Solder and Flemming are below average OTs....but still NFL caliber OTs.
How many rookies OTs step in and excel?
I think the signing of 2 270lbs TEs will do alot to protect Jones
So he while trade to say 12th and take a only day a 4th round pick in return? That would be worse than staying put. The hyperbole is understood but the anger at someone for something they haven’t done yet is a lot of wasted energy. Making a deal w Chargers or Dolphins you can see but if they don’t offer that and Going to 9th or later might be worst than not trading.
There are many that believe that Simmons is the answer but I only think he will be successful on a good team. He needs the supporting cast. He is not going to make the guys around him better imo. Brown is just not a need and after a poor performance at the combine I think his stock had to have fallen a bit. Usually I dont believe that because he dominated in college but he was unprepared.
Everyone else has as many warts as the OTs although I have not looked at the WRs I just think its going to be OT at this point and then we can all argue who we wanted. I prefer Becton as I think he has the best chance at LT long term.
If you hit on the OT and he is successful it makes the entire team better. DJ and SB see immediate and direct results. The D benefits by more sustained drives. There is not a good solution for the OL as it stands. We have to come out with a starter either at OT and or Center so we either have to go for it in the 1st or 2nd and you never know whats going to be there at 36. The year 1 potential starters could all be gone by then.
When Barkley has nowhere to run, it's mostly because the opposing defense makes it a priority to take the run away and there are more defenders than the OL can block.
I'm not opposed to drafting an OL with the first pick. In fact, since I'm not a Simmons believer, I might look at it as the best option among those the Giants seem to have on their table.
But the offense operates as a unit and one rookie OL,even if a success, isn't necessarily going to make a dramatic difference in the issues Jones and Barkley face on a play-to-play basis.
Because there are 4 potential tackles everyone acts like they have low grades and we would be reaching. Says who? They are graded very highly. Drafting is much more inexact than we pretend. How many can't miss BPAs were taken ahead of Strahan? A lot of this is random. A player takes a wrong step and gets hurt. A scheme ends up being not great for another. And yet, because Simmons may be ranked a few points higher on some scale that is worth much less than we think, suddenly it's a slam dunk pick. He might be great. But he also may be an average, over sized safety. We don't know. There will be very good defenders available in rounds 2 and a few in round 3. This draft is also very deep in corners. In the current NFL, offensive lineman are few and far between.
As for the Flowers comparisons, he may have been a reach but he also had potential. It just didn't work out. There were two years in a row where one of the top lineman came off the board because of freak character concerns. If Wills and Wirfs suddenly are enveloped in scandal and off the board, then I will worry about a panic reach.
I say trade down or take OT. If they take Simmons....I'll route for him all the same and hope he is the star everyone thinks he is. But no one knows. This is much more random than people think.
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DG doesn't trade down and at least recoup a 3rd round pick, he should be fired before he's allowed to make the 4th pick. This is a roster with a ton of holes, falling in love with a player at 4 would be stupid.
He needs someone to make a legit offer. Can’t blame him if there isn’t a legit offer on the table.
What is a legit offer? The point of the trade is to get more picks and still get a BPA at a need spot and for us OT is a huge need but at 4 there is better value to be had so if the pick is not Simmons simply getting a extra early 2nd and 4th is a viable trade for example moving from 4 to 6 or 7. That is what wrong the perception you dont trade unless you get an uber deal ... That is why Pats can run plug and play .... more Quantity OF Quality pieces.
5th Round - UDFA - UDFA - Early 2nd - 3rd
Our shitty olines of these past few seasons are were packed full of 1st and 2nd round picks.
Don't force the issue.
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Even if BPA on their board is Derrick Brown?
If their board says he's the best player, then yes. This draft isn't about 2020 only, and that's where fans get stuck in the mud. Yes, draft picks are now expected to contribute sooner and in many cases teams plug them in and let them figure out how to swim. But, the draft is about young talent, teaching, and development. It takes time.
I prefer not to pick Brown, but this roster as currently constructed isn't in position to say no to top talent.
Overdraft an OT and hand him a starging job and get Jones killed anyway.
Meanwhile the consensus top 3 defender you passed on becomes an all-pro.
You're right. Your plan is aces and that "Draft BPA Plan" is stupid.
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Solid plan.
Overdraft an OT and hand him a starging job and get Jones killed anyway.
Meanwhile the consensus top 3 defender you passed on becomes an all-pro.
You're right. Your plan is aces and that "Draft BPA Plan" is stupid.
If Jones is going to get killed this season no matter what, I'd much rather him get killed behind a young ascending talent, who by seasons end will be entrenched and a long time starter.
But hey, you drafted an all pro defender. Good for you. Enjoy wasting your young QB's developmental years, ending up with the next David Carr, and having to start all over again.
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Solid plan.
Overdraft an OT and hand him a starging job and get Jones killed anyway.
Meanwhile the consensus top 3 defender you passed on becomes an all-pro.
You're right. Your plan is aces and that "Draft BPA Plan" is stupid.
If Jones is going to get killed this season no matter what, I'd much rather him get killed behind a young ascending talent, who by seasons end will be entrenched and a long time starter.
But hey, you drafted an all pro defender. Good for you. Enjoy wasting your young QB's developmental years, ending up with the next David Carr, and having to start all over again.
it's beyond obvious they are taking an OT. just look at this offensive line. solder (sucks), hernandez, ?, zeitler, fleming. you think they aren't taking an OT with that shit offensive line? they will get jones killed.
i've said this on every thread i comment on. this draft has to be about daniel jones and barkley.
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In comment 14862352 Brown Recluse said:
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Solid plan.
Overdraft an OT and hand him a starging job and get Jones killed anyway.
Meanwhile the consensus top 3 defender you passed on becomes an all-pro.
You're right. Your plan is aces and that "Draft BPA Plan" is stupid.
If Jones is going to get killed this season no matter what, I'd much rather him get killed behind a young ascending talent, who by seasons end will be entrenched and a long time starter.
But hey, you drafted an all pro defender. Good for you. Enjoy wasting your young QB's developmental years, ending up with the next David Carr, and having to start all over again.
So you're suggesting that unless the Giants draft an OT in the first RD Jones is guaranteed to become the next David Carr?
That's kind of silly.
Plenty of young QBs got sacked a lot their first couple of years without becoming David Carr.
Don't pick someone out of a lower tier grouping of players. Within the same tier, position of need is a valid consideration.
You also have to evaluate depth of position and how likely it will be to pick up a position at a lower round.
If OL is within the group at the top of the board, protect DJ. This also helps SB, and gives a little more time for the lackluster WR corp.
this is not true. the QB has not gotten destroyed because of how terrible the defense has been (and it has definitely been terrible). the QBs get destroyed because the line can't run block or pass block. now you can blame coaching to a degree for that as players seemed to have no idea what they were doing. but if you trot daniel jones out behind this current line. i mean it's a recipe for disaster.
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In comment 14862390 Jim in Tampa said:
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In comment 14862352 Brown Recluse said:
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Solid plan.
Overdraft an OT and hand him a starging job and get Jones killed anyway.
Meanwhile the consensus top 3 defender you passed on becomes an all-pro.
You're right. Your plan is aces and that "Draft BPA Plan" is stupid.
If Jones is going to get killed this season no matter what, I'd much rather him get killed behind a young ascending talent, who by seasons end will be entrenched and a long time starter.
But hey, you drafted an all pro defender. Good for you. Enjoy wasting your young QB's developmental years, ending up with the next David Carr, and having to start all over again.
So you're suggesting that unless the Giants draft an OT in the first RD Jones is guaranteed to become the next David Carr?
That's kind of silly.
Plenty of young QBs got sacked a lot their first couple of years without becoming David Carr.
No, I'm suggesting that if you don't fix it and keep kicking the can down the road, it will never get fixed and your young QB will fail. And Carr isn't the only example.
In case you hadn't noticed, finding a franchise QB is pretty hard. Once you've found one, your top priority should be building the roster to make them successful.
These Tackles are not Erick Flowers, and the fact that you even brought up a lazy comparison like that shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and are just scared over the Flowers draft pick.
Serious question that I don't think many seem to be able to answer.
But, in my opinion none of them measure up to the defensive prospects.
Oh no oh no!!!
Look. If there was a can't miss OT worthy of the 4th overall pick I'd be fine with it. There's no denying the OL needs help.
But while there seems to be consensus among scouts and talent evaluators that the four best non-QBs are all on D (Young, Simmons, Okudah and Brown) opinions vary on the best OT.
So why force an OT pick?
BPA at 4 and 36.
Well this team and it's fans don't value OL so any OL player would NEVER be considered the BPA so I guess we are going to be stuck with a crappy OL forever!
5th Round - UDFA - UDFA - Early 2nd - 3rd
Our shitty olines of these past few seasons are were packed full of 1st and 2nd round picks.
Don't force the issue.
This is exception more than rule. Also the Cowboys line is stocked with 1st rounders. If they had a better QB and better head coaching they'd probably have been in a SuperBowl by now.
Serious question that I don't think many seem to be able to answer.
A couple could be. But it depends on how strong the evaluation/confidence is on them fulfilling their immense potential. Ultimately at least the way I see it Okudah and Simmons have slightly higher grades but are still in the same row or tier as 2 of the 4 OTs. Need meeting value therefore favors one of those OTs : Wills or Becton.
they cannot draft okudah (who is a tremendous player). they used all that capital last year for baker and paid a fortune for bradbury. okudah is not an option for them unless you're ready to give up on baker already
We apparently didn't even show interest which shows they committed to the direction of going CB as the big signing (and likely OT at top of draft)
I'm sure too.
But, in my opinion none of them measure up to the defensive prospects.
Besides Young, Okudah, Brown and Simmons, who else do you have above the OTs? My take is that Simmons is not in consideration at 4 for me, I think you an I agree on that. I hope the Giants feel that way too. I would take Young and Okudah over OT but I would have a hard time taking Brown. He looks the part but that combine was telling, he is so slow and we are loaded up at DT for the time being, at some point we have to spend top picks at other spots. It seems like we are spending a 1-3 on a DT every year.
We need to improve the OLine, but in particular when it comes to pass blocking, the line is only as good as it's weakest link, not as good as it's strongest. If Tuo goes before us we will have a chance to take the 2nd best non-QB in the draft. If it's me, I'm taking the best available blue chip player, most likely on D, and making Oline a priority following.
+1. This team needs offensive line help in the worst way. Many people have wills in the top 10 on their board. Cosell thinks he’s a stud and that’s.l a guys opinion I respect. If Eli remained QB I think giants fans would view this differently. Daniel jones covered up a ton for this putrid offense. He was the offense! Get him some lineman it’s really simple. Imagine wills and a bounce back year for solder. If you want to help the D, do so at 36. This defense was bad. The priority going into this offseason was fixing the offensive line while also getting real edge help. What has changed? Unless young falls into our lap you take either wills or wirfs. Whoever the giants like more.