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Carl Banks' tweet

bc4life : 4/7/2020 10:09 pm
about Martinez in coverage
Link - ( New Window )
I'm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/7/2020 10:15 pm : link
starting to get a sneaky feeling that Martinez may be a better player than advertised.
Good link  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 4/7/2020 10:15 pm : link
Thanks
Banks liked this pickup  
bc4life : 4/7/2020 10:19 pm : link
but I hadn't seem him talk about at length before this.
Eric - me too  
Matt M. : 4/7/2020 10:21 pm : link
He may not be a game changing star for us. But, he is definitely a much better LB and player than what we have had in here and should help improve this defense.
Smart player play faster then their timed speed  
George from PA : 4/7/2020 10:21 pm : link
He will be better is several areas then olgeltree

He will be around the ball

He will have team lined up properly

He does not miss tackles

Connelly and Martinez  
Payasdaddy : 4/7/2020 10:28 pm : link
Should we expect them on field together often?
If we are have a 4-2-5 on a passing down, wonder if they will be the two often?
Or does Martinez supersede him?
Love how quickly Martinez  
section125 : 4/7/2020 10:28 pm : link
recognizes these plays. I think that is what Carl likes. Reads the play, knows his assignment and gets there.

Thanks Carl.

Please, make this be so...
8 years of  
bradshaw44 : 4/7/2020 10:33 pm : link
Over hyping FAs in my head. Ones that were great before and lived up to it after we get them.

I’m banking on a guy that isn’t special. Book it.
RE: 8 years of  
bradshaw44 : 4/7/2020 10:33 pm : link
In comment 14862192 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
Over hyping FAs in my head. Ones that were great before and lived up to it after we get them.

I’m banking on a guy that isn’t special. Book it.


We’re NOT great
He needs a good DC  
MeadowlandsMike : 4/7/2020 10:37 pm : link
Lets see how Graham shakes out.

A Connelly , Martinez combination is interesting.
Gotta love Carl  
V.I.G. : 4/7/2020 11:06 pm : link
.
RE: I'm  
nzyme : 4/7/2020 11:44 pm : link
In comment 14862160 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
starting to get a sneaky feeling that Martinez may be a better player than advertised.


I'll tell you this: I went over the Packer's forum and the fans posted a play that supposedly showed Martinez's weakness in pass coverage. It was a play where the DC required him to carry the TE into the deep third of the field. On that play the TE also split two safeties straight down the middle. Ridiculous.
nzyme  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/8/2020 12:31 am : link
In his Q&A with the press, Martinez seemed a bit annoyed at the perception that he can't cover. And it didn't come across as one of those things where the player is failing to admit the obvious.
Martinez  
English Alaister : 4/8/2020 4:54 am : link
Was a canny 7th round pickup by which savvy BBI mock drafter? :)
I hope he's right  
adamg : 4/8/2020 5:00 am : link
.
RE: I'm  
Klaatu : 4/8/2020 7:13 am : link
In comment 14862160 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
starting to get a sneaky feeling that Martinez may be a better player than advertised.


Maybe so. Let's hope he is. If he's a significant upgrade from Alec Ogletree (and not just a "new and improved" version of David Mayo), he'll be well worth the cost. Time will tell.
Could really use him to be  
Dankbeerman : 4/8/2020 7:18 am : link
a Solid player as it could make him a much needed leader on this D. havent had a good one since Tuck and Rolle.
RE: nzyme  
Strahan91 : 4/8/2020 7:22 am : link
In comment 14862253 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In his Q&A with the press, Martinez seemed a bit annoyed at the perception that he can't cover. And it didn't come across as one of those things where the player is failing to admit the obvious.

This reminds me of what PFF wrote about him in their FA preview which was that he’s shown all the qualities necessary to become a superstar linebacker but never at the same time. At times grading high in coverage but not against the run and vice versa.
I thought Boley signing was a sneaky good at the time  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/8/2020 7:30 am : link
you can't fake or get fooled by variance in LB tackling numbers. Boley didn't quite live up to my highest hopes, but I think Martinez is a similar floor of being a + guy like Boley at least.

Now non ER LBs who don't rack up the tackling numbers, wtf are they exactly doing then?
I'm in an IDP fantasy league (includes Individual Defensive Players)  
Milton : 4/8/2020 7:31 am : link
Only Jordan Hicks, Joe Schobert, Darius Leonard, Corey Littleton, and Bobby Wagner scored ahead of Martinez in 2019 (among true LBs). In 2018 only Leonard, Wagner, Littleton, and Kuechly scored more than him. In 2017, only Mosley, Wagner, and Demario Davis scored more than him.
And of course the obligatory screw PFF  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/8/2020 7:34 am : link
and some neckbeard with a notepad and a vcr, there is no interpreting or spinning LB tackling numbers.
RE: I thought Boley signing was a sneaky good at the time  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 4/8/2020 7:39 am : link
In comment 14862314 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
you can't fake or get fooled by variance in LB tackling numbers. Boley didn't quite live up to my highest hopes, but I think Martinez is a similar floor of being a + guy like Boley at least.

Now non ER LBs who don't rack up the tackling numbers, wtf are they exactly doing then?


Boley was excellent in the 2011 playoffs. We should be so lucky.
That’s the thing about NFL defenses  
BillT : 4/8/2020 8:47 am : link
It’s a very cerebral thing. It’s as much about figuring out what to do as your physical skills. And that may be most true about LB who have to both run support and pass defense. Being a step ahead mentally is worth two steps physically.
RE: That’s the thing about NFL defenses  
mfsd : 4/8/2020 8:53 am : link
In comment 14862360 BillT said:
Quote:
It’s a very cerebral thing. It’s as much about figuring out what to do as your physical skills. And that may be most true about LB who have to both run support and pass defense. Being a step ahead mentally is worth two steps physically.


Yup, that clip is a good example of how a LB’s instincts and knowing his assignment can be equally or more valuable than his pure combine-measured ability.

Reminds me of how a guy like Antonio Pierce became a pro bowl caliber LB, despite being considered too small and going undrafted.

I’m not saying Martinez is Pierce just yet, let’s not get crazy, but I suspect he fits the kind of smart player Judge and company have talked about targeting.
RE: That’s the thing about NFL defenses  
Rjanyg : 4/8/2020 8:54 am : link
In comment 14862360 BillT said:
Quote:
It’s a very cerebral thing. It’s as much about figuring out what to do as your physical skills. And that may be most true about LB who have to both run support and pass defense. Being a step ahead mentally is worth two steps physically.


This. There were many times when Ogletree was slow to react and out of positions. We had guys running free way to many times. Martinez is going to be better at reading cues and lining up the defense. If these guys actually can get together I see hope for improvement on defense.
Kinda reminds me  
King Quis : 4/8/2020 8:55 am : link
of Antonio Pierce. Not overly athletic but extremely smart and instinctive. If he gives us some years like that i'd be thrilled!
RE: I'm  
EricJ : 4/8/2020 9:00 am : link
In comment 14862160 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
starting to get a sneaky feeling that Martinez may be a better player than advertised.


Whenever I would watch part of a Green Bay game, he would always stand out to me. He was always making a play that I noticed.
I was wondering about this signing when it happened. As we learn  
Ira : 4/8/2020 9:03 am : link
more about the player, I'm warming up to it. He's definitely an upgrade over Ogletree.
...  
christian : 4/8/2020 9:10 am : link
The Giants made him a top 5 paid inside LBer, he certainly should be able to diagnose pre-snap.

The skepticism after signing was never around his field IQ. It was primarily that he gets guys on the ground 5 yards downfield regularly. He'll need to improve that to be considered a good investment.
RE: ...  
Strahan91 : 4/8/2020 9:22 am : link
In comment 14862392 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants made him a top 5 paid inside LBer, he certainly should be able to diagnose pre-snap.

The skepticism after signing was never around his field IQ. It was primarily that he gets guys on the ground 5 yards downfield regularly. He'll need to improve that to be considered a good investment.

Not true. He’s the 10th highest paid inside linebacker.

The second part was in no small part due to GB’s scheme which has been discussed a lot already.
The  
PaulN : 4/8/2020 9:28 am : link
Few games Conelly played showed them something, Martinez is an upgraded and experienced version, that is what I think we are adding.
RE: Could really use him to be  
BMac : 4/8/2020 9:31 am : link
In comment 14862306 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
a Solid player as it could make him a much needed leader on this D. havent had a good one since Tuck and Rolle.


So maybe now we have "tuck and cover?"
RE: Gotta love Carl  
Dr. D : 4/8/2020 9:31 am : link
In comment 14862220 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
.

I do! But of course I've seen BBIers say he doesn't know what he's talking about. Personally, I think every morning after his coffee, Carl shits out more football knowledge than most BBIers, including myself, have in their brains.
Banks  
PaulN : 4/8/2020 9:33 am : link
Loved the signing right away, he talked about detractors saying what what he couldn't do instead of looking at what he does do.
bc4life  
Dr. D : 4/8/2020 9:38 am : link
good thread. Thanks!
Articles I've read say that he was good in coverage in 2017  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/8/2020 9:41 am : link
...and that he was used more as a pass rusher in 2018 and generally wasn't used to his strengths last year by the new coaching staff. Stats seem to back that up.
I think Pierce is a good comp.  
Dave on the UWS : 4/8/2020 9:42 am : link
What I'm confident about with this coaching staff is they won't hang a guy like Martinez out to dry by having him try to cover scat backs down the field. I can see Connelly and Martinez as the two inside backers easily. Assuming full recovery, Connelly's 40 time if I remember correctly, was pretty good. He's not a slug. I think he comes off the field for 3 safety looks, etc. though.
RE: RE: I'm  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/8/2020 9:49 am : link
In comment 14862375 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14862160 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


starting to get a sneaky feeling that Martinez may be a better player than advertised.



Whenever I would watch part of a Green Bay game, he would always stand out to me. He was always making a play that I noticed.

I'm also optimistic that he was a big reason why GB D was suddenly good with him quarterbacking the D.
Let's hope it was a matter of GB  
David B. : 4/8/2020 10:12 am : link
Not using him as effectively as they might have, and the Giants seeing something more. Judge's whole thing (supposedly) is putting players in positions to succeed, and "do what they CAN do." Maybe if they use him better/differently/correctly, he'll be better than we expect.
nothing shows how starved  
Ron Johnson : 4/8/2020 10:47 am : link
Giants fan are than getting really excited about a 'functional' player
RE: nothing shows how starved  
Klaatu : 4/8/2020 11:11 am : link
In comment 14862611 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
Giants fan are than getting really excited about a 'functional' player


Can you blame us? We've seen an awful lot of "malfunctional" players at the LB positions, lately.
RE: Martinez  
ColHowPepper : 4/8/2020 11:16 am : link
In comment 14862281 English Alaister said:
Quote:
Was a canny 7th round pickup by which savvy BBI mock drafter? :)
EA, someone you know? (:

Notes re Pierce a good comp: I recall (and robbie will smack me down when I'm wrong on LBs) Pierce being more strongly built, more squat, but not as fast/quick as BM. Heady? For sure
Even if GB did misuse him, he did very well  
PatersonPlank : 4/8/2020 11:21 am : link
He led the team in tackles every year and I believe was 2nd in the league last year. I see some downplaying this, but I'm hopeful he can really contribute. I always liked him, at Stanford too
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 4/8/2020 11:27 am : link
In comment 14862410 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14862392 christian said:


Quote:


The Giants made him a top 5 paid inside LBer, he certainly should be able to diagnose pre-snap.

The skepticism after signing was never around his field IQ. It was primarily that he gets guys on the ground 5 yards downfield regularly. He'll need to improve that to be considered a good investment.


Not true. He’s the 10th highest paid inside linebacker.

The second part was in no small part due to GB’s scheme which has been discussed a lot already.


He has the 5th highest salary among inside linebackers in 2020 at 14M. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/inside-linebacker/ — that’s the measure I’m using, not cap hit.

If his unimpressive numbers on yardage are attributed to the system, he’ll have no problem doing better as a Giant and cutting that number way down.
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