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NYG Draft Philosophy (will it change w Judge?)

NYG22 : 4/8/2020 8:48 am
Disclaimer: We have no idea how much say Judge will have and how much a draft philosophy change NYG may undergo. But if in fact DG has lost power to JJ in the "virtual" draft room, I wonder if some of the Patriot tendencies start to show themselves. Note: to be clear, I am not suggesting Judge is running this draft or has final say. By all accounts, its DGs draft to lead. But perhaps JJ will have more influence than Shurmur (a guy who I believe brought less to the table with regard to a) sheer brain power b) a strong voice c) talent evaluation skills).

If any of that is correct, I wonder if we will see the following:

1. Use of a Day 3 pick on a developmental QB.

2. More emphasis on special teams potential.

3. As we've often heard with Judge, more versatile players.

4. More polished players from bigger programs.

If that is the case, here are some players that may be valued more. I'm limiting this to Day 3 players.

QB: James Morgan, Jake Fromm if he slips deep into Day 3

RB: Joshua Kelly, Brian Herrien, JJ Taylor

WR: Michael Pittman, Quintez Cephus, Tyler Johnson, Joe Reed

TE: Other than Kmet, I just don't like this TE class.

OT: Saahdiq Charles, Lucas Niang, Charlie Heck

OG: Danny Pinter, Calvin Throckmorton, Ben Bredeson

C: Nick Harris always seems to jump out at me as a guy who is better than many who are ranked above him based on body type alone

DT: Davon Hamilton, John Penisini, Khalil Davis

Edge: Jonathan Greenard (to me, hes a clear top 50 player but the mocks have him lower), Derek Tuszkam, James Smith-Williams

LB: Jacob Phillips, Joe Bachie, Dante Olsen

CB: Lavert Hill, Josiah Scott, Dane Jackson, Cameron Danzler

S: JR Reed, Terrell Burgess, Jared Mayden
I don't know if a Patriot  
section125 : 4/8/2020 8:59 am : link
mentality will follow with Judge. It may be more of a Saban mentality refine through Belichick.

He no doubt will have different ideas on the type of player he is looking for. I do think that square pegs will not be used in round holes, the holes will be shaped to accept the square peg. Perhaps the square peg will be bypassed and a hexagonal peg will be found.
Just my uneducated opinion. I think Judge, Garrett, and  
Blue21 : 4/8/2020 9:02 am : link
Graham will share input and depending how their offensive and defensive philosophies might be different from the past will/can influence the draft tremendously. Will they ignore BPA? Doubtful as long as that player fits.
Good post by the OP  
mfsd : 4/8/2020 9:06 am : link
Pick 4 is an interesting first test for the new group working with DG.

Garrett will no doubt pound the table for an anchor tackle. Graham no doubt longs for a potentially elite defender like Simmons or Okudah.

I agree that for mid-late round guys, ability to contribute on special teams will be a requirement.
It seems like JJ has a strong sense of his football philosophy  
JohnB : 4/8/2020 9:09 am : link
And he seems to wear it on his sleeve. In every interview he gives he is preaching his philosophy and they seem ingrained in him, they are a part of his football DNA. Every coach, every scout, the GM and the owners has had to listen to it. And I am assuming THE reason JJ was hired was of this strong philosophy and Mara, Tish and company agree with it and that's the direction they are moving in.

I am NOT saying that JJ is the leader of the NY Giants but rather his philosophy will be the guiding philosophy for the whole organization for the next few years. And I like that.
Lets  
PaulN : 4/8/2020 9:10 am : link
Hope he works out as good as we all hope, and if he does work out, he will evolve into him self, as all greats do.
Philosophy.....Yes  
Reb8thVA : 4/8/2020 9:11 am : link
Process probably not.


Judge knows what system he wants to run and the kind of players that he needs to run it. That alone will add a different dimension.

However, the Giants remain an institution and will likely operate as they have always done. If there is change in the process, I think it will be because there is a recognition that the way they have been doing thing isn't working and less because of a new HC
RE: It seems like JJ has a strong sense of his football philosophy  
NYG22 : 4/8/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 14862391 JohnB said:
Quote:
And he seems to wear it on his sleeve. In every interview he gives he is preaching his philosophy and they seem ingrained in him, they are a part of his football DNA. Every coach, every scout, the GM and the owners has had to listen to it. And I am assuming THE reason JJ was hired was of this strong philosophy and Mara, Tish and company agree with it and that's the direction they are moving in.

I am NOT saying that JJ is the leader of the NY Giants but rather his philosophy will be the guiding philosophy for the whole organization for the next few years. And I like that.


Nicely said on your part.
RE: It seems like JJ has a strong sense of his football philosophy  
KDavies : 4/8/2020 9:24 am : link
In comment 14862391 JohnB said:
Quote:
And he seems to wear it on his sleeve. In every interview he gives he is preaching his philosophy and they seem ingrained in him, they are a part of his football DNA. Every coach, every scout, the GM and the owners has had to listen to it. And I am assuming THE reason JJ was hired was of this strong philosophy and Mara, Tish and company agree with it and that's the direction they are moving in.

I am NOT saying that JJ is the leader of the NY Giants but rather his philosophy will be the guiding philosophy for the whole organization for the next few years. And I like that.


Well said. Agreed 100%.
RE: Just my uneducated opinion. I think Judge, Garrett, and  
Mike in NY : 4/8/2020 9:29 am : link
In comment 14862379 Blue21 said:
Quote:
Graham will share input and depending how their offensive and defensive philosophies might be different from the past will/can influence the draft tremendously. Will they ignore BPA? Doubtful as long as that player fits.


Considering Jason Garrett got his first coaching job under Nick Saban I do believe that JJ and his coordinators will be on the same page re: philosophy on the type of players they want. Judge also seems like the type of person who can clearly articulate to the scouting staff what they should be looking for. Buffalo was successful with a holdover scouting staff after Sean McDermott was hired because McDermott knew exactly the type of player he wanted and the scouting staff was able to focus on the players that met his criteria. You also saw it when you compare Tom Coughlin's early years with Jim Fassel's final years. Fassel was never clear with his vision and that caused the scouting staff to gamble on athletes who ended up being poor scheme fits. Under Coughlin it was more clear who they wanted.
Where you might see it  
Dave on the UWS : 4/8/2020 9:32 am : link
is they may be more inclined to trade down from 4, than the past. BB has always been more fluid in his approach to the draft. I suspect JJ will be similar.
It's clear that Judge wants to be able to move players around. From  
Ira : 4/8/2020 9:57 am : link
that, we can assume versatility will be a bigger factor.
If the Giants truly value versatility  
George : 4/8/2020 9:58 am : link
Isaiah Simmons is the pick at #4.
RE: It seems like JJ has a strong sense of his football philosophy  
AcidTest : 4/8/2020 9:59 am : link
In comment 14862391 JohnB said:
Quote:
And he seems to wear it on his sleeve. In every interview he gives he is preaching his philosophy and they seem ingrained in him, they are a part of his football DNA. Every coach, every scout, the GM and the owners has had to listen to it. And I am assuming THE reason JJ was hired was of this strong philosophy and Mara, Tish and company agree with it and that's the direction they are moving in.

I am NOT saying that JJ is the leader of the NY Giants but rather his philosophy will be the guiding philosophy for the whole organization for the next few years. And I like that.


Agreed.
Rutgers mascots?  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/8/2020 10:00 am : link
But somehow BB made them work or got rid of them quickly.
If you think this is the Patriots’ Day 3 philosophy, is it really  
Ivan15 : 4/8/2020 10:02 am : link
Different than the Giants present approach, or even the past approach under Reese?
From the horse's mouth  
Hot Rod in St Cloud : 4/8/2020 10:43 am : link
According to Joe Judge, the Giants are going to take it step by step and this will take time to build a team to be proud of. He intends to get players who are fast, smart, tough, and fundamentally sound. It's not going to be a fancy style of play, but a blue-collar mentality, and a team that won't beat itself.

Whoever the Giants draft, it won't be just who is best for the team this year, but who fits best into the plan for the long haul. I think this is Judge's philosophy will carry the day, and I think Gettleman will be mostly responsible for negotiating with other teams as to whether to trade up or down.

From that description, who do I think best fits the profile for a 1st round pick?

FAST: OLB Simmons or OT Wirfs. These two were the fastest at their positions at the combine. Wirfs will certainly help the team immediately to keep the QB off his butt. Simmons may be the better choice for the future as he is a generational talent, very versatile and there is no one like him.

TOUGH: OT Beckton. He's the beast. There is nobody bigger than this junkyard dog, not to mention he's no slowpoke. He wouldn't be the best OT pick for this year, but for the long haul, he has the most upside.

SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND: CB Okudah or OT Wills/Thomas. Akudah's not the fastest CB by any means, but he sticks to his man and doesn't get beat very often. In a trade down, either of Wills or Thomas would be the guys who are the most consistent and tough linemen, who don't get beat.

It seems to me we are taking Simmons or in a trade down, we could still go Simmons or an OT if Simmons or Okudah aren't available


AND FOR THE FREE AGENTS WE SIGNED:
FAST: LB Fackrell
TOUGH: TE Toillo LB Mayo WR/ST Core FB Penny
SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND: CB Bradberry MLB Martinez. They don't beat themselves.

As you can see, the free agents we have signed, do fall into the plan (philosophy) outlined by Judge in his introductory interview. I think we will see that plan continues to unfold in the draft and in the rest of any free agents we pick up if any more are added.

I can't even try to predict who we take in the 2nd round, but I am sure whoever we get will fall into the fast, tough, smart, and fundamentally sound categories.
Everybody talks about  
Gman11 : 4/8/2020 10:57 am : link
Gettleman like he's sitting in his corner office all by himself making these decisions. He may have the final say, but he's going to get input from the coaches (and not just Judge) and scouts. So, it's ridiculous when all I read is Gettleman is going to do this or that or he's never done that or always does this. It's a collaborative effort.
RE: From the horse's mouth  
JohnB : 4/8/2020 11:47 am : link
In comment 14862598 Hot Rod in St Cloud said:
Quote:
According to Joe Judge, the Giants are going to take it step by step and this will take time to build a team to be proud of. He intends to get players who are fast, smart, tough, and fundamentally sound. It's not going to be a fancy style of play, but a blue-collar mentality, and a team that won't beat itself.

Whoever the Giants draft, it won't be just who is best for the team this year, but who fits best into the plan for the long haul. I think this is Judge's philosophy will carry the day, and I think Gettleman will be mostly responsible for negotiating with other teams as to whether to trade up or down.

From that description, who do I think best fits the profile for a 1st round pick?

FAST: OLB Simmons or OT Wirfs. These two were the fastest at their positions at the combine. Wirfs will certainly help the team immediately to keep the QB off his butt. Simmons may be the better choice for the future as he is a generational talent, very versatile and there is no one like him.

TOUGH: OT Beckton. He's the beast. There is nobody bigger than this junkyard dog, not to mention he's no slowpoke. He wouldn't be the best OT pick for this year, but for the long haul, he has the most upside.

SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND: CB Okudah or OT Wills/Thomas. Akudah's not the fastest CB by any means, but he sticks to his man and doesn't get beat very often. In a trade down, either of Wills or Thomas would be the guys who are the most consistent and tough linemen, who don't get beat.

It seems to me we are taking Simmons or in a trade down, we could still go Simmons or an OT if Simmons or Okudah aren't available


AND FOR THE FREE AGENTS WE SIGNED:
FAST: LB Fackrell
TOUGH: TE Toillo LB Mayo WR/ST Core FB Penny
SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND: CB Bradberry MLB Martinez. They don't beat themselves.

As you can see, the free agents we have signed, do fall into the plan (philosophy) outlined by Judge in his introductory interview. I think we will see that plan continues to unfold in the draft and in the rest of any free agents we pick up if any more are added.

I can't even try to predict who we take in the 2nd round, but I am sure whoever we get will fall into the fast, tough, smart, and fundamentally sound categories.


In your "SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND" area should have included Simmons. People rave about how high of a football IQ he has, one of the smartest out there.
why does Charles keep popping up on these lists  
BigBlueCane : 4/8/2020 11:56 am : link
when LSU suspended him for 6 games during their NC run?
RE: why does Charles keep popping up on these lists  
NYG22 : 4/8/2020 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14862730 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
when LSU suspended him for 6 games during their NC run?


Good point. I missed that fact in the OP.
NYG philosophy wont change  
averagejoe : 4/8/2020 12:08 pm : link
I think Giants will NOT take OT at four as I believe there are many OT's with similar grades. If Simmons or....gasp Young....are there at four that will be the pick. If they are both gone Giants will be in an excellent position to move back and get OT and extra high picks.
Wow if Fromm drops to day 3 that would be something  
PatersonPlank : 4/8/2020 12:11 pm : link
At one time, not too long ago, he was in the running for top QB in this class
RE: NYG philosophy wont change  
NYG22 : 4/8/2020 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14862748 averagejoe said:
Quote:
I think Giants will NOT take OT at four as I believe there are many OT's with similar grades. If Simmons or....gasp Young....are there at four that will be the pick. If they are both gone Giants will be in an excellent position to move back and get OT and extra high picks.


I hope for any of the possibilities you mentioned.
My hope is that coming from the Pats who maneuver around...  
Torrag : 4/8/2020 1:36 pm : link
to their advantage that Judge will influence DG and the Giants to be more flexible and pro active seeking trades.
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