Many of us have waaaay too much time on our hands -- so this may be a fun distraction.
We are all probably united that it would be great to improve the OL, There are probably differences on what kind of draft capital that should be spent.
There also seems to be a consensus at least on four four Tackles (though one might be best as an OG) worthy of at least a top 12 pick.
Many have not been shy of expressing their opinion. This is different. David Syvertsen (Sy'56) -- BBI's last standing acknowledged draft expert is a wonderful trusted resource.
SO
1. Predict who Sy'56 will have ranked as #1 OT (among any prospects)
2. Your prediction on his rational
3. Whether the will be a significant (albeit subjective) gap between #1 and the rest.
GO!!!!
Rationale: All are flawed, but Thomas is #1 because he is the surest bet to play in a Pro Bowl (but not an All-Pro)
Gap: I suspect there will be at least a three point gap to the next rating, by Sy'56's rating scores.
I know SY doesn't do mocks, but I wonder if he would take an OT at #4?
earl the goat commented that from conversations he had with him that he believes Becton is the other but recent comments referencing a ?potential back? health concern put that in doubt? I'm going with Wills as his #2.
2. JOE BURROW QB1 LSU
3. JEFF OKUDAH CB1 Ohio State
4. ISAIAH SIMMONS LB1 Clemson
5. JEDRICK WILLS OT1 Alabama
6. TUA TAGOVAILOA QB2 Alabama
7. DERRICK BROWN DT1 Auburn
8. TRISTAN WIRFS OT2 Iowa
9. CEEDEE LAMB WR1 Oklahoma
10. JERRY JEUDY WR2 Alabama
11. MEKHI BECTON OT3 Louisville
12. HENRY RUGGS WR3 Alabama
13. CJ HENDERSON CB2 Florida
14. K’LAVON CHAISSON EDGE2 LSU
15. ANDREW THOMAS OT4 Georgia
Very good but somewhat inconsistent pass blocker
Elite Measureables (size and arm length)
Played the best competition in the best conference
Experience at left tackle
No injuries
No off field issues
Pro Style Offense
But most of all...
Sy loves a mean streak and he has it in spades. Him next to Hernandez...? Sign me up.
Wirfs
Wills
Becton.
But most of all...
Sy loves a mean streak and he has it in spades. Him next to Hernandez...? Sign me up.
Am I mis-remembering that Sy was not as big on Hernandez as most? Maybe that was he-who-cannot-be-named???
I keep reading on BBI that everyone likes the other OT’s better but Thomas is the name mentioned most on this thread.
The podcast episode with Sy’56’s interview is dropping tonight. Should be a great listen.
Quote:
But most of all...
Sy loves a mean streak and he has it in spades. Him next to Hernandez...? Sign me up.
Am I mis-remembering that Sy was not as big on Hernandez as most? Maybe that was he-who-cannot-be-named???
No it was Sy and I'm not sure Hernandez would be thrilled with his own play last year.
But there is no doubting his mean streak and Thomas is equally as ornery. I think values a mean streak and finishing as much or more than most.
Wirfs, Wills, Thomas, Becton
3. No
My top guy = Thomas
Wills reminds me a little bit of La'el Collins who Sy was really high on (had him ranked over Scherff). He seems like movement skills more than anything else, so I think Wills will definitely be 1 of his top 2.
The other is a split decision between Wirfs and Thomas. It's whoever has the tools he prioritized most because I think he'd said during the bowl season both had some inconsistency. So I'll guess Thomas because his tools are very underrated (3 cone and arm length especially). People don't appreciate how freaky he is (compared to how much people talk about Wirfs).
Quote:
Jerry and Chris said Sy preferred Thomas. They had him on this week, although I haven't listened to the podcast yet.
The podcast episode with Sy’56’s interview is dropping tonight. Should be a great listen.
You're right. I usually listen on Saturday's, so I have no idea when the podcast first drops.
Thomas 3rd and a dark horse ahead of Becton at 4. Possibly Isiah Wilson.
Wills
Thomas
Becton
OK, he's a family friend and I don't REALLY think Sy would have him as top OL; but I couldn't miss the opportunity to give him a little free press.
(It would be interesting if the Giants took Wirfs in the 1st round and Danny later in the draft; we'd have the two fastest O lineman entering this year!)
Danny is cerebral, very agile, high character, a quick learner and a proven leader. I would predict he'd be a swing OL in his developmental year wherever he lands, but long range I think his future is C. He is a physical and character clone of Shaun O'Hara. Someone will get a steal.
OK, he's a family friend and I don't REALLY think Sy would have him as top OL; but I couldn't miss the opportunity to give him a little free press.
(It would be interesting if the Giants took Wirfs in the 1st round and Danny later in the draft; we'd have the two fastest O lineman entering this year!)
Danny is cerebral, very agile, high character, a quick learner and a proven leader. I would predict he'd be a swing OL in his developmental year wherever he lands, but long range I think his future is C. He is a physical and character clone of Shaun O'Hara. Someone will get a steal.
So Brugler in his magnum Opus has your friend as the 11th highest Guard.
I'll share just a morsel from behind the paywall given the family connection 😉
"SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Ball State, Pinter lined up at right tackle in head coach Mike Neu’s offense. He made the transition from tight end to tackle look relatively easy over the past two seasons, adding the pounds and performing at a high level as a senior, which put him on the NFL radar. Pinter doesn’t have ideal girth or length, but he is quick out of the chute with the efficient movement patterns to be a productive on-the-move blocker. While he plays with a clear dedication to the details, the consistency of his pad level and hand technique must improve to mask several of his shortcomings. Overall, Pinter is light-framed and doesn’t display the consistent power or mechanics to face NFL defenders right now, but he moves well with zone-blocking upside for a team willing to be patient."
I don't like Thomas. I think he is too stiff and he looks and moves too awkwardly, much like Flowers to my eye, albeit he has more years of production on the College level than Flowers did as well as more success in a pro level offense.
Beckton is an amazing physical specimen - but Sy has dropped the bomb of his back issues. I think he's very, very raw and a project too.
What Sy is going to say - I don't know - but he has indicated that he has 2 of the Offensive linemen ranked high enough to be taken at 4. I hope he says Wirfs and WIlls and I would be happy with either --
I would take Wirfs if that's what the Giants believe in and it's rumored that they love him.
I don't think Simmons fits the Giants mold - I do think Okudah would be a great addition, I like Cee Dee Lamb too
buuuut -- if Young somehow drops to 4 I will be po'ed if the Giants don't draft him -- really po'ed.
Bottom line -- I want to see one of thee 4 on the Giants after the Draft depending on how the Draft falls: Young, Okudah, Wirfs or Lamb - I think I would be happy with any of them with an edge to Young. I won't be pissed if the Giants pick Simmons either. I think he's a great talent. I'm just not sure he is a Giants' type athlete. But it won't piss me off if they think they could use him and that he has more skills that they like than the other choices.
So gun to my head - It's Young, Simmons, Okudah, Wirfs, Lamb - therefore I'm guessing Sy ranks Wirfs best of the OTs. (The truth is that's my guess -- I don't really know other than that he's panned Beckton, and I think I remember that he had panned Thomas at some point too.)
I am one who really wants a defensive playmaker added so this fits into my own values -- but I can see the argument for valuing Wirfs and Lamb higher too.
I've said this before - and I'll say it again. The Giants are going to get a really good player (or really good players) in the first round. I doubt they will trade down - but it's a possibility this year more than others. There are a lot of really good players to be had. I've never before felt that I would be happy with five players at the Giants pick, and there are others I like in a tier just below the players I listed above, like Wills, Jeudy and even Murray, Henderson, Gross-Matos, and Brown.
Wirfs
Quote:
Sy will surprise everyone and select Pinter, a former TE, 4.91 40 and 24 reps. JJ likes flexible players and Danny can line up in any of the 5 positions. Projected at G.
OK, he's a family friend and I don't REALLY think Sy would have him as top OL; but I couldn't miss the opportunity to give him a little free press.
(It would be interesting if the Giants took Wirfs in the 1st round and Danny later in the draft; we'd have the two fastest O lineman entering this year!)
Danny is cerebral, very agile, high character, a quick learner and a proven leader. I would predict he'd be a swing OL in his developmental year wherever he lands, but long range I think his future is C. He is a physical and character clone of Shaun O'Hara. Someone will get a steal.
So Brugler in his magnum Opus has your friend as the 11th highest Guard.
I'll share just a morsel from behind the paywall given the family connection 😉
"SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Ball State, Pinter lined up at right tackle in head coach Mike Neu’s offense. He made the transition from tight end to tackle look relatively easy over the past two seasons, adding the pounds and performing at a high level as a senior, which put him on the NFL radar. Pinter doesn’t have ideal girth or length, but he is quick out of the chute with the efficient movement patterns to be a productive on-the-move blocker. While he plays with a clear dedication to the details, the consistency of his pad level and hand technique must improve to mask several of his shortcomings. Overall, Pinter is light-framed and doesn’t display the consistent power or mechanics to face NFL defenders right now, but he moves well with zone-blocking upside for a team willing to be patient."
Thank you!
I will relay the Paywalled info to grandpa.
I still think of Danny as a "real nice kid" (at 13). Humble, smart and a leader of his peers. Although 2 year HS all state at TE he is on just the start of his learning trajectory for the OL. Great lower round pick for a team dedicated to teaching.
I agree. That means do you select a Wirfs or Wills as a potential starting RT at #4? Seems a little high...but what do I know.
That being said, I don't know dick. I'm not a scout and I don't play one on TV. I like Wirfs and Thomas best based on their measurables (Wirfs's quickness and Thomas's length) and what I've read from draftniks. Wills strikes me as a high floor, low ceiling OT based on what I've read. And Becton scares me. His upside is in line with that of Wirfs and Thomas, but he has the lowest floor of the four.
All that said, I think all four are worthy of being selected in the top 12 (again, based purely on what I've read about them and their measurables, I'm not a scout and have seen very, very, very little of them in action.
And here's the bottomline, we can discuss this until we are blue in the face, but ultimately what will distinguish one from the other is what goes on in the interview room. Which of the four do Gettleman, Pettit, Judge, Garrett, and Columbo think is the most coachable? Who do they believe is the most likely to attain his upside? These are questions that can only be answered via interview and since we and Sy and Kiper and Boylhart and Jeremiah and his bullfrog are not in the room for these interviews, we are without a vital piece of information, perhaps the most vital piece of information. So all we can do is wait. And masturbate.
It's hard when you're projecting "IMAGINATION" that one guy can add add total body transformation, or that another guy can just POOF add an entire skill set.
The awareness stuff with Wirfs scares me. He plays unaware and caught by surprise to often in pass pro. The nasty doesn't always show up on tape. All these items coachable to the point of not just succeeding at RT but LT? Great question. Man Wills may not have the absolute freak AA but boy does he have great awareness and balance.
In a Passing, Highly Spaced and Paced Game, that's the guy I want.
The awareness stuff with Wirfs scares me. He plays unaware and caught by surprise to often in pass pro.
Do you have examples of the awareness stuff you're referring to? He's got stuff to work on for sure but that's not something I've seen personally but what I've seen is far from the full body of work.
He doesn’t have much experience playing at LT. More likely, he could challenge for playing time at RT this season, the eventually move to LT when Soldier is done.
If it's overall technique and consistency it's Wills by a fair margin. 1 sack allowed in 929 SEC pass reps.
Wirfs has the elite AA with decent technique and upside.
Run centric pro offense background while protecting a QB who wasn't the slickest guy making decisions.
If the Giants get that vibe he has no chance of being the pick. Wirfs is known as a gym rat hard worker and Wills is known for his opponents film study habits.
However I think the grades will be really close, like a point apart, no big gaps.