for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Jeff Okudah has potential to be ‘home-run pick’

GFAN52 : 4/9/2020 8:01 am
Quote:
“We literally sat there for two hours and he asked me questions about every NFL receiver — how he releases [off the line of scrimmage] and why,” Jeff Hafley told The Post. “That showed how much he loves football and how serious he is about how good he wants to be, where most college guys would’ve been hanging out with their buddies.”

Okudah’s likely landing spots are Detroit — as a replacement for traded All-Pro Darius Slay, whether at pick No. 3 or slightly lower after a much-speculated trade — or the Giants at No. 4.

“In the NFL, you are going to get balls thrown on you and touchdowns caught on you, which he hasn’t had a whole lot of,” Hafley said. “He is going to have to mentally challenge himself to line up and do it over and over again at a high level. I believe it’s one of the hardest positions to play as a rookie.”

Link - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
It means I've picked another building block I believe in  
JonC : 4/9/2020 11:58 am : link
just like youse and OT.

Who's right will be known in time.
my 11:48  
JonC : 4/9/2020 11:59 am : link
you could plug in CB in place of OT, I've been clear about that. I just believe in Okudah over the OT options.
Nah. We are both right.  
LBH15 : 4/9/2020 12:00 pm : link
Lots of ways to try and improve.
I'm totally  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 12:00 pm : link
on board with the "team building" aspect of the drafts. It would seem that Gettleman cluster drafted the secondary in 2019 because of the strength there. Perhaps now is the time for OL. Last I will say on this topic is that unless Okudah is Champ Bailey or Revis 2.0, I think this would be a massive error to avoid taking OT in a strong OT top 15.
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 12:01 pm : link
that is fair...let's hope for the sake of this team that whoever they go with, turns out to be the right damn call. We need a hint of optimism throughout the majority of 2020.
RE: An example of this is  
fireitup77 : 4/9/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14863655 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Washington, who has used 1st round draft picks on DL in 2019, 2018, and 2017. And they are an absolutely terrible football team.


And they are going to take another one this year.
ryan  
JonC : 4/9/2020 12:12 pm : link
I'm optimistic they'll be better this year. If the coaches and schemes are on point, and young prospects improve, and they draft well ... maybe you've got a team that find a way to win 7-8 games.

Big questions from a year ago remain, OL and pass rush. But, I expect the defense to improve because it couldn't be worse. And, their overall best talent is really young and will hopefully make leaps forward.
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 12:16 pm : link
to me i think a huge difference is Shurmur. Suffice to say, the guy was a horrible head coach. Just plain bad. Now the jury is WAY out on Judge. But I just can't see him being a worse game manager than Shurmur. If our talent improves, Jones improves, and we have just slightly better coaching, you're right, 8 wins is definitely possible. Now if Judge is awesome and our talent takes a huge leap, we can compete for the playoffs. Keep in mind, the extra 2 playoff teams.
I agree  
JonC : 4/9/2020 12:32 pm : link
and 8 wins is a good sign the arrow could be pointing up, at last. And, if they go OT at #4 I'll back the pick and hope he's a fucking animal for NYG.
RE: I agree  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14863721 JonC said:
Quote:
and 8 wins is a good sign the arrow could be pointing up, at last. And, if they go OT at #4 I'll back the pick and hope he's a fucking animal for NYG.

Just curious...IF they do go OT...who is your preferred choice?
I'll argue the teams biggest need is adding difference makers  
UberAlias : 4/9/2020 12:58 pm : link
Particularly on the defense. We have one player that concerns coordinators and that's Barkely. You need players whose talent challenges your opponents schematically and we just don't have it right now.

Oline needs to be improved but the thing about Oline is you are only as good as your weakest link, not as good as your strongest, and this is particularly true in pass protection. If it's me, I'm grabbing a playmaker of defense at 4 and continue looking for opportunities to improve Oline in remaining draft.

But if they do decide to go OT at 4, I sure hope they get a guy who can be a difference maker in the running game.
If the Giants pick him they will have a ballin' secondary  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/9/2020 1:12 pm : link
...for years. And their pass defense was by far the worst part of the team last year. Baker could be the nickel guy.

I am really warming up to this pick.
He's going to be terrific, but is not "home run" ...  
Manny in CA : 4/9/2020 1:29 pm : link

With a 4.48 forty (TE Evan Engram at 240 is 4.4). Okudah is not shut-down material.
RE: RE: I agree  
JonC : 4/9/2020 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14863726 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 14863721 JonC said:


Quote:


and 8 wins is a good sign the arrow could be pointing up, at last. And, if they go OT at #4 I'll back the pick and hope he's a fucking animal for NYG.


Just curious...IF they do go OT...who is your preferred choice?


I really like Wirfs, my only concern with him is positional ceiling. Is he best suited to RT? OG? I want a potential replacement for Solder at #4.
Uber  
JonC : 4/9/2020 1:32 pm : link
agree 100%, especially in the top 10.
RE: He's going to be terrific, but is not  
GFAN52 : 4/9/2020 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14863764 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

With a 4.48 forty (TE Evan Engram at 240 is 4.4). Okudah is not shut-down material.


Who do you consider a shut-down corner?
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 1:59 pm : link
i'm sure he's biased, but Ferentz didn't hesitate and said "left tackle" when asked where Wirfs should play in the NFL in the future. Perhaps that was him propping off his draft stock, who knows. But something to consider.
I'm in the minority but I don't see a Top 5 talent  
Torrag : 4/9/2020 2:02 pm : link
Within the group of players the Giants will be considering I'd go in another direction. I hope our FO sees it the same way.
RE: I'm in the minority but I don't see a Top 5 talent  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14863811 Torrag said:
Quote:
Within the group of players the Giants will be considering I'd go in another direction. I hope our FO sees it the same way.

Can you clarify? You mean you'd hope they would trade down?
clarify  
Torrag : 4/9/2020 2:21 pm : link
I think we'd all like a short trade down but making it happen has a lot of moving parts that need to align.

IF we had to make the pick at #4 I'd go Young if available and take Wills/Simmons before I'd pick Okudah. I have them in the same tier.
I don’t know if  
RetroJint : 4/9/2020 2:23 pm : link
the Giants would draft Okudah . I do know , however , that the Giants are not set at corner and Jeff is an excellent player .

The Giants worst units are offensive line and secondary . Everybody centers on the line but the secondary is a mess. Coaching will help-no question . But who is really reliable back there ?

I still think they will trade down to get an extra pick . Those picks will be an offensive lineman and a center . But with all these scenarios that are developing , the only one I don’t like is getting Simmons at 4 . Even with thought of him being purely a S .

Judge isn’t going to do this in a year . The talent level of the roster is not high enough for that . But the plan is in place instead of pipe dreams and disastrous sentimentality .
Retro  
JonC : 4/9/2020 2:47 pm : link
+1, as usual.
Retro  
Torrag : 4/9/2020 2:57 pm : link
With the Bradberry signing the Giants worst position groups are O-Line and LB.

Wills/Wirfs or Simmons make the most sense.
Need to look more at what the secondary could be  
LBH15 : 4/9/2020 2:58 pm : link
versus what it was. Young guys, no safety worth a damn and clueless linebackers. Added Bradberry and will ultimately have somebody quicker than a Bethea was back there too.

Give it another year and let’s reevaluate if DG missed on all his corner decisions.

All i ask is those who are clamoring for Okudah  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 3:37 pm : link
don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game
Retro  
ryanmkeane : 4/9/2020 3:40 pm : link
I’m not ready to call Baker “reliable” but he really showed a lot in the last 4-5 games. CB is arguably the hardest position to transition to once you’re in the NFL. He took a ton of lumps but really flashed. Him and Bradberry are going to make a nice duo. We have some guys that can battle it out for the nickel.
You can be a good CB with 4.5 speed  
Vanzetti : 4/9/2020 4:04 pm : link
But can you be a great one?

Deion, Champ Bailey, D Green—they were all guys who ran
Under 4.3

Ronnie Lott did not have elite speed, but he also switched to
Safety. I think Lott is the best comparison if you think Okudah can
Be great. But isn’t it long odds looking for the next Ronnie Lott?
Thank you Vanzetti ...  
Manny in CA : 4/9/2020 5:11 pm : link

That's your answer GFAN52.

If you have elite speed, that helps you make up for your mistakes; no substitute for it.
RE: Interesting point that could be related  
Festina Lente : 4/9/2020 6:15 pm : link
In comment 14863373 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
in Lombardo's piece on Graham:

"Graham’s defense brought extra pressure significantly less often, relying on blanket coverage from the secondary. The Dolphins only sent four rushers on 51 percent of snaps, five rushers on 21 percent of snaps, and six or more rushers on six percent of snaps, managing to get extra pressure on the quarterback on 27 percent of plays, the fewest in the NFL. "
Graham's tendencies - ( New Window )


yeah, and they were the worst defense I saw all year. Honestly, I hope this hire pans out for us.
RE: All i ask is those who are clamoring for Okudah  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/9/2020 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14863915 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game


As opposed to trotting Jones out there behind rookies?

You have way too much faith in rookies. You guys seem to thi k a rookie tackle and rookie center are going to hit the ground running and keep Jones clean all year.
RE: RE: All i ask is those who are clamoring for Okudah  
LBH15 : 4/9/2020 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14864029 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14863915 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game



As opposed to trotting Jones out there behind rookies?

You have way too much faith in rookies. You guys seem to thi k a rookie tackle and rookie center are going to hit the ground running and keep Jones clean all year.


Nobody thinks that, as depending upon who and when they pick they can work guys in as they go thru season or next year, subject to injuries of course.

But if you don’t start...you will never finish.
Would you rather they develop  
LBH15 : 4/9/2020 6:24 pm : link
on another team and have the Oline Fairy magically find us lineman by waving her wand?
RE: RE: All i ask is those who are clamoring for Okudah  
Percy : 4/9/2020 7:41 pm : link
In comment 14864029 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14863915 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game



As opposed to trotting Jones out there behind rookies?

You have way too much faith in rookies. You guys seem to thi k a rookie tackle and rookie center are going to hit the ground running and keep Jones clean all year.

This whole conversation escapes me. We have no OL. We might luck out and start curing that by selecting an OT in this draft. They all tell us the OTs available in it are swell. Pick what the best one is and be done with it, win or lose. How worrying about other positions can compete with this need makes me (and many others) crazy. Pick the OT!
the conversation is easy  
BigBlueCane : 4/9/2020 7:52 pm : link
CB play hasn't changed much in the past decade or so, so people are more confident in evaluating those players.

Where as OL has changed b/c of the spread, and the players coming out of College now, aren't the same as ones of years past.

So you have a bunch of cranky greybeards downgrading them b/c they're looking for unicorns.
RE: You can be a good CB with 4.5 speed  
Strahan91 : 4/9/2020 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14863943 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
But can you be a great one?

Deion, Champ Bailey, D Green—they were all guys who ran
Under 4.3

Ronnie Lott did not have elite speed, but he also switched to
Safety. I think Lott is the best comparison if you think Okudah can
Be great. But isn’t it long odds looking for the next Ronnie Lott?

Richard Sherman, Ronde Barber and Aeneas Williams were all slower than Okudah at the combine.
RE: You can be a good CB with 4.5 speed  
AcesUp : 4/9/2020 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14863943 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
But can you be a great one?

Deion, Champ Bailey, D Green—they were all guys who ran
Under 4.3

Ronnie Lott did not have elite speed, but he also switched to
Safety. I think Lott is the best comparison if you think Okudah can
Be great. But isn’t it long odds looking for the next Ronnie Lott?


Strictly looking at his athletic profile from his gymnastic numbers, he’s in the 95th percentile range according to things like RAS and Sparq score. His 40 was kind of average but his size and explosive numbers are off the charts. That’s not really a question.

I’m perfectly fine with Okudah at 4, he’ll probably be BPA when taking into account position value. I don’t see a problem overloading at CB either, it’s a position with a high bust rate and Okudah is as close as you can get to can’t miss at the position. It’s also a position where the 3-5th guy on your depth chart are seeing as many snaps as some of your starters at seasons end. The addition of Bradberry and need at OL should absolutely matter...it’s enough for me to lean OT or Simmons over him but he would not be a bad pick by any stretch.
Wow  
13ODB : 4/9/2020 9:05 pm : link
You people on here are obsessed with this guy. Every week since the combine all is see Okudah. We can’t rush the passer or block to saves our lives we won Super Bowls because of pass rush and good blocking 2007 and 2011 but let’s take another Ohio state CB. Can’t wait to be 4-12 agains next year
RE: Wow  
AcesUp : 4/9/2020 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14864134 13ODB said:
Quote:
You people on here are obsessed with this guy. Every week since the combine all is see Okudah. We can’t rush the passer or block to saves our lives we won Super Bowls because of pass rush and good blocking 2007 and 2011 but let’s take another Ohio state CB. Can’t wait to be 4-12 agains next year


This continues to be one of the most mind numbing takes I keep seeing. Were some of you even watching the games last year? That was the worst Giants secondary I’ve ever seen as a fan. And that was before we cut our best player there.

I agree with the concerns about Okudah potentially suffocating our other young guys on the depth chart but acting like this wasn’t one of our worst units last year (by far THE worst unit imo) is just confusing.
RE: All i ask is those who are clamoring for Okudah  
13ODB : 4/9/2020 9:20 pm : link
In comment 14863915 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game


This board (not all but most) have been for 2 months. It will be same problems with this team next year no pass rush and a bad offensive line. I can’t believe how many people want to take a corner back this high when the oline is still bad
RE: RE: Wow  
13ODB : 4/9/2020 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14864139 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14864134 13ODB said:


Quote:


You people on here are obsessed with this guy. Every week since the combine all is see Okudah. We can’t rush the passer or block to saves our lives we won Super Bowls because of pass rush and good blocking 2007 and 2011 but let’s take another Ohio state CB. Can’t wait to be 4-12 agains next year



This continues to be one of the most mind numbing takes I keep seeing. Were some of you even watching the games last year? That was the worst Giants secondary I’ve ever seen as a fan. And that was before we cut our best player there.

I agree with the concerns about Okudah potentially suffocating our other young guys on the depth chart but acting like this wasn’t one of our worst units last year (by far THE worst unit imo) is just confusing.


I watch the games and I continue to see One of the worst offensive lines in the game and it’s been this way for years. Even Hernandez looked bad last year... it is a big problem. We need a center and a tackle
We’re picking 4th  
AcesUp : 4/9/2020 9:41 pm : link
There were a lot of issues. OL was bad last year but the extent is a little overblown. I do think it’s our biggest need but a lot of that has to do with there being three positions needing to be replaced within the next two years and Zeitler needing replacement not long after that. However, speaking strictly on last year, my eyes were telling me that our secondary was worse and just about every statistical measure there is supports that. It was a huge need heading into the offseason, overblown optimism on our picks last year and it being a little bit newer of a team killer, compared to the old standbys like OL and pass rush, might be why some are overlooking just how shitty they were.
"OL was bad last year but the extent is a little overblown."  
Torrag : 4/9/2020 10:51 pm : link
It isn't. It may be worse. 3rd in QB hits and pressures allowed. Can't run block to save our asses. Hernandez the only young talent in the pipeline. No starting caliber OC even on the roster. As bad as he's played in back to back years Solder is the only starting OT presence and he's a likely cut after 2020.

I frankly don't know how it could get much worse.
RE: We’re picking 4th  
LBH15 : 4/10/2020 7:45 am : link
In comment 14864155 AcesUp said:
Quote:
There were a lot of issues. OL was bad last year but the extent is a little overblown. I do think it’s our biggest need but a lot of that has to do with there being three positions needing to be replaced within the next two years and Zeitler needing replacement not long after that. However, speaking strictly on last year, my eyes were telling me that our secondary was worse and just about every statistical measure there is supports that. It was a huge need heading into the offseason, overblown optimism on our picks last year and it being a little bit newer of a team killer, compared to the old standbys like OL and pass rush, might be why some are overlooking just how shitty they were.


But the Defense should be getting better with experience. And the OL absolutely will be getting worse.

Lets look prospectively at the state of the team since its the Draft.
RE: Henderson  
CromartiesKid21 : 4/10/2020 7:56 am : link
In comment 14863502 JonC said:
Quote:
is super soft, poor avoiding tackler.


You pay the other 10 guys to tackle. The absolute last attribute to consider for elite cover corners is tackling
RE: RE: Henderson  
GiantsLaw : 4/10/2020 8:56 am : link
In comment 14864273 CromartiesKid21 said:
Quote:
You pay the other 10 guys to tackle. The absolute last attribute to consider for elite cover corners is tackling
Finally someone who thinks along the same lines. To me if Henderson is a better cover corner, he'd be a much better value pick. Honestly I don't see how that even makes Okudah BPA @ #4.
teams say they draft the best player on the board  
Jersey55 : 4/11/2020 4:27 pm : link
and I know that sounds good but its BS, they draft the guy they want if he's there ..
RE: RE: Henderson  
JonC : 4/11/2020 8:49 pm : link
In comment 14864273 CromartiesKid21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14863502 JonC said:


Quote:


is super soft, poor avoiding tackler.



You pay the other 10 guys to tackle. The absolute last attribute to consider for elite cover corners is tackling


That's nonsense. Soft play, much like physical play, has a tendency to be contagious.
Jon C  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/11/2020 8:52 pm : link
You hearing anything vis a vis the pick, where we're leaning?
So far  
JonC : 4/11/2020 8:59 pm : link
they love Wirfs, Brown, and like Simmons (how much is unclear). Of course, if Young somehow slips he's the pick.
This group of 2nd tier OL are a huge gamble None may ever work out.  
TMS : 4/12/2020 6:29 pm : link
OL has been a crapshoot for years now. Nobody drafts them in the top four anymore -name one who has worked out well. Top 5 picks are QBs or defense every year, Get smart. Ol line talent is just not athletically worth the gamble they will ever develop. MO
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner