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| “We literally sat there for two hours and he asked me questions about every NFL receiver — how he releases [off the line of scrimmage] and why,” Jeff Hafley told The Post. “That showed how much he loves football and how serious he is about how good he wants to be, where most college guys would’ve been hanging out with their buddies.” Okudah’s likely landing spots are Detroit — as a replacement for traded All-Pro Darius Slay, whether at pick No. 3 or slightly lower after a much-speculated trade — or the Giants at No. 4. “In the NFL, you are going to get balls thrown on you and touchdowns caught on you, which he hasn’t had a whole lot of,” Hafley said. “He is going to have to mentally challenge himself to line up and do it over and over again at a high level. I believe it’s one of the hardest positions to play as a rookie.” |
Trade down.
However, the tackle situation is scary. Solder was not good last year and they have nothing at Right tackle. I can't believe they go into the season with the idea that Flemming/Gates are locks to hold one tackle spot. They did sign a couple tackles last year off practice squads and even if they like some of the potential it is very risky.
As long as one of the OT's are graded as a top ten talent and the floor is good starter I can't see them passing on one. Next year they very well will not be in this spot again (draft) and I don't want them having to spend exorbitant dollars next year in FA on one.
Then the other big element is the teams in our division who all believe in throwing waves of DL and getting pressure. The Giants have to counter this.
I disagree with this logic. If Okudah is the better player, which he is, you take him.
Agree. And in some ways, although Young’s ceiling might be higher, I think Okudah is probably the safer pick.
"Graham’s defense brought extra pressure significantly less often, relying on blanket coverage from the secondary. The Dolphins only sent four rushers on 51 percent of snaps, five rushers on 21 percent of snaps, and six or more rushers on six percent of snaps, managing to get extra pressure on the quarterback on 27 percent of plays, the fewest in the NFL. "
Graham's tendencies - ( New Window )
I really like Okudah.
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Take a guy like Simmons
I disagree with this logic. If Okudah is the better player, which he is, you take him.
If so, by how much. At worst, from all I’ve read, it’s pretty darn close
a surplus of unproven corners doesn't mean we are in good shape.
Of course, count me among those hoping Young somehow slips to the Giants. If the Redskins are willing to trade out or really want Simmons, and the Lions really want Okudah ... perhaps the Giants finally get lucky.
They need help at OT. But, if it doesn't arrive via the draft we're going to hear how confident they are in Solder and Fleming, whom the Patriots won a SB with, yada, yada.
Okudah, Bradberry and Baker.
Bradberry goes on outside. I think Baker showed enough by end of year that he can play on outside as well.
It would be really helpful of Okudah can thrive in Slot as much as he does outside. Not ideal value for #4 pick.
Roster building strategies just seem to be odd with this regime. While Simmons, Brown and Okudah are all top notch players, they all come with some overlap to players we just added to the team in Peppers, Williams/Lawrence, and Bradberry.
Right Tackle looks open though :-)
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who plays outside corners?
Okudah, Bradberry and Baker.
There are only two outsides. Who are you benching?
Yep
Me too. Despite having a few solid players, this defense is desperately short on elite talent. Picking at 4, the goal should be a perennial All Pro caliber player, regardless of position.
Not sure how he'll do aginst NFL linemen. He's going to be a very good player. Just not sure it's at LB. Okudah is a much safer pick, IMO. And, most think he has top five value.
I get that this “positionless defender” is all the rage right now, but there are certainly some concerns with that idea. Jack of all trades, master of none kind of deal.
A perfect example is Jabrill Peppers. He’s not really a CB, LB, or S. He kind of falls in between all those position. And he’s a good player, but is he being utilized correctly?
When need and BPA match, it should be a no brainer. That's why I have a hard time seeing Detroit, if they stay at 3, passing on Okudah, with Slay having been traded. Okudah, Simmons, and Brown will probably be rated about the same on most boards. So need CAN factor into the decision.
For NY, they make up rows. Young likely goes on his own row, Simmons, Okudah, Brown on the next. The question we all would love to know, are any of the OTs on THAT row?
When need and BPA match, it should be a no brainer. That's why I have a hard time seeing Detroit, if they stay at 3, passing on Okudah, with Slay having been traded. Okudah, Simmons, and Brown will probably be rated about the same on most boards. So need CAN factor into the decision.
For NY, they make up rows. Young likely goes on his own row, Simmons, Okudah, Brown on the next. The question we all would love to know, are any of the OTs on THAT row?
Summed up well, especially re: LT draft.
If one of the tackles is scouted to be a perennial all-pro LT, then by all means pull the trigger, no question.
I'm just worried we pick a guy who has to be moved to guard in a couple years, while a guy like Okudah is in the Pro Bowl every year for another team.
Admittedly, my opinion is still skewed by that fucking slug Flowers. But I'm no scout, just a fan kicking around opinions.
If you're smart, you draft into the draft's inherent strengths. There isn't help available at #4, unless Young drops.
Really like Wirfs upside, but if he can't play blindside it limits his value to me.
Bradberry is on a 3 year deal, none of the young corners have proven anything. Okudah would be the best player on the board if he's available at our pick. I would hope he'd get a long look, despite the investment in corner last draft and in free agency. You need three starting CBs in this league. I think Okudah has the quickness and athleticism to play some in the slot if that's where they wanted to start him off. His sophomore year he played all over when he was part of a three CB rotation with Arnette and Kendall Sheffield.
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In comment 14863382 LBH15 said:
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who plays outside corners?
Okudah, Bradberry and Baker.
There are only two outsides. Who are you benching?
Baker. But he’d be in a lot of passing downs anyway. And DBs seem to get injured as much as any position.
If he doesn't, and Gettleman can orchestrate a trade down to grab some draft collateral and still get one of the OTs in his top tier, then pull the trigger on deal.
If trade down is not in the cards, pick highest OT on board at #4.
Simmons, Okudah and Brown are all nice pieces and we wish them well so long as their interests don't conflict with ours.
Link - ( New Window )
This means... QB, RB, OL, 3 down DL, LB
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In two years, Baker will be coming up on a contract decision, Bradberry will be close to 30. Things change fast in the NFL, can't have too much talent at CB, Edge, WR, and we're still thin or unproven across those positions.
Wouldn't this apply to DT then too? Plus having a deep strong DT rotation can be a big advantage. This would be the argument for D Brown who also appears as a blue chip defender to some.
Unless he's destined for greatness, I'm not a huge fan of DT in the top 5. Especially if we're going to design scheme around Edge talent eventually. CB talent has more value than DT talent, imv. Some will disagree and prefer DL, but I value CB and Edge over DT.
Solder is set to be paid $20.5M in 2021 but has a dead cap hit of $6.5M (it would have only been $4M but the brain trust that ran out of money last year restructured his deal a bit. With that said, Solder should be a likely cut freeing up a good deal of money.
However, plug and play LTs don't grow on trees and as we can see in a lot of these mock drafts don't last long past rd 1 or 2. Therefore, the NYG can actually try and solve for their current and future OT issues now by picking a couple in this draft. And if it works out, they can solve for an open position at RT now, potentially season someone for replacing Solder in 2021 and save a boat load of money to play with in next years free agency if maybe a Pass Rusher can be had.
+1, especially 1st round draft resources. To take Baker and Okudah back to back years, is essentially saying we are somewhat fine elsewhere. Because we took DJ, you can argue our two most important "future" positions are LT and RT. Right now, we don't have a long term solution for either, unless Solder somehow has a come to jesus moment and turns into a plus player in his last 2 years with us
I agree with this.
I don't think we are "set" at corner. We have a lot of question marks.
I don't expect the Giants to take Okudah, but I'd be fine with it if they did.
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Okudah would indicate a massive waste of resources on Bradberry & Baker. Can't do it.
+1, especially 1st round draft resources. To take Baker and Okudah back to back years, is essentially saying we are somewhat fine elsewhere. Because we took DJ, you can argue our two most important "future" positions are LT and RT. Right now, we don't have a long term solution for either, unless Solder somehow has a come to jesus moment and turns into a plus player in his last 2 years with us
Again, you're going back to the flawed notion that the draft is gir filling holes. Taking Okudah doesnt say we are "fine" at other positions, it simply says he is the best player on the board.
"BPA" is great, it should be the case. But it should absolutely not be the case if you've spent premium draft capital, and premium FA dollars, on that same position. It just isn't smart.
And honestly, Okudah could be awesome. It won't mean shit if every opposing QB has 5 or 6 seconds to throw the ball on every down.
I'm sure you find my perspective frustrating, but I'm not changing mine. A bridge too far. The good news for you is I'm not the GM.
As JonC said that would allow the Giants to move Ballentine to FS where he could be a player.
That is true, but can't that be said for any position, any player? I get it, you gotta make sure you don't whiff. But who's to say Okudah won't be a bust? We don't know.
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picking a OT at #4 doesn't ensure the problem is solved. If your conviction on a particular OT and his correlating value on your draft board says he's the guy, by all means make him the pick.
That is true, but can't that be said for any position, any player? I get it, you gotta make sure you don't whiff. But who's to say Okudah won't be a bust? We don't know.
The point about conviction and sticking to your board still applies to CB, for me.
And maybe the Redskins shouldnt be picking for the same unit every year and spread value elsewhere. Kind of like Giants with corners.
Link - ( New Window )
Who's right will be known in time.
And they are going to take another one this year.
Big questions from a year ago remain, OL and pass rush. But, I expect the defense to improve because it couldn't be worse. And, their overall best talent is really young and will hopefully make leaps forward.
Just curious...IF they do go OT...who is your preferred choice?
Oline needs to be improved but the thing about Oline is you are only as good as your weakest link, not as good as your strongest, and this is particularly true in pass protection. If it's me, I'm grabbing a playmaker of defense at 4 and continue looking for opportunities to improve Oline in remaining draft.
But if they do decide to go OT at 4, I sure hope they get a guy who can be a difference maker in the running game.
I am really warming up to this pick.
With a 4.48 forty (TE Evan Engram at 240 is 4.4). Okudah is not shut-down material.
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and 8 wins is a good sign the arrow could be pointing up, at last. And, if they go OT at #4 I'll back the pick and hope he's a fucking animal for NYG.
Just curious...IF they do go OT...who is your preferred choice?
I really like Wirfs, my only concern with him is positional ceiling. Is he best suited to RT? OG? I want a potential replacement for Solder at #4.
With a 4.48 forty (TE Evan Engram at 240 is 4.4). Okudah is not shut-down material.
Who do you consider a shut-down corner?
Can you clarify? You mean you'd hope they would trade down?
IF we had to make the pick at #4 I'd go Young if available and take Wills/Simmons before I'd pick Okudah. I have them in the same tier.
The Giants worst units are offensive line and secondary . Everybody centers on the line but the secondary is a mess. Coaching will help-no question . But who is really reliable back there ?
I still think they will trade down to get an extra pick . Those picks will be an offensive lineman and a center . But with all these scenarios that are developing , the only one I don’t like is getting Simmons at 4 . Even with thought of him being purely a S .
Judge isn’t going to do this in a year . The talent level of the roster is not high enough for that . But the plan is in place instead of pipe dreams and disastrous sentimentality .
Wills/Wirfs or Simmons make the most sense.
Give it another year and let’s reevaluate if DG missed on all his corner decisions.
Deion, Champ Bailey, D Green—they were all guys who ran
Under 4.3
Ronnie Lott did not have elite speed, but he also switched to
Safety. I think Lott is the best comparison if you think Okudah can
Be great. But isn’t it long odds looking for the next Ronnie Lott?
That's your answer GFAN52.
If you have elite speed, that helps you make up for your mistakes; no substitute for it.
"Graham’s defense brought extra pressure significantly less often, relying on blanket coverage from the secondary. The Dolphins only sent four rushers on 51 percent of snaps, five rushers on 21 percent of snaps, and six or more rushers on six percent of snaps, managing to get extra pressure on the quarterback on 27 percent of plays, the fewest in the NFL. "
Graham's tendencies - ( New Window )
yeah, and they were the worst defense I saw all year. Honestly, I hope this hire pans out for us.
As opposed to trotting Jones out there behind rookies?
You have way too much faith in rookies. You guys seem to thi k a rookie tackle and rookie center are going to hit the ground running and keep Jones clean all year.
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don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game
As opposed to trotting Jones out there behind rookies?
You have way too much faith in rookies. You guys seem to thi k a rookie tackle and rookie center are going to hit the ground running and keep Jones clean all year.
Nobody thinks that, as depending upon who and when they pick they can work guys in as they go thru season or next year, subject to injuries of course.
But if you don’t start...you will never finish.
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don't bitch and moan when Jones is still getting destroyed game after game
As opposed to trotting Jones out there behind rookies?
You have way too much faith in rookies. You guys seem to thi k a rookie tackle and rookie center are going to hit the ground running and keep Jones clean all year.
This whole conversation escapes me. We have no OL. We might luck out and start curing that by selecting an OT in this draft. They all tell us the OTs available in it are swell. Pick what the best one is and be done with it, win or lose. How worrying about other positions can compete with this need makes me (and many others) crazy. Pick the OT!
Where as OL has changed b/c of the spread, and the players coming out of College now, aren't the same as ones of years past.
So you have a bunch of cranky greybeards downgrading them b/c they're looking for unicorns.
Deion, Champ Bailey, D Green—they were all guys who ran
Under 4.3
Ronnie Lott did not have elite speed, but he also switched to
Safety. I think Lott is the best comparison if you think Okudah can
Be great. But isn’t it long odds looking for the next Ronnie Lott?
Richard Sherman, Ronde Barber and Aeneas Williams were all slower than Okudah at the combine.
Deion, Champ Bailey, D Green—they were all guys who ran
Under 4.3
Ronnie Lott did not have elite speed, but he also switched to
Safety. I think Lott is the best comparison if you think Okudah can
Be great. But isn’t it long odds looking for the next Ronnie Lott?
Strictly looking at his athletic profile from his gymnastic numbers, he’s in the 95th percentile range according to things like RAS and Sparq score. His 40 was kind of average but his size and explosive numbers are off the charts. That’s not really a question.
I’m perfectly fine with Okudah at 4, he’ll probably be BPA when taking into account position value. I don’t see a problem overloading at CB either, it’s a position with a high bust rate and Okudah is as close as you can get to can’t miss at the position. It’s also a position where the 3-5th guy on your depth chart are seeing as many snaps as some of your starters at seasons end. The addition of Bradberry and need at OL should absolutely matter...it’s enough for me to lean OT or Simmons over him but he would not be a bad pick by any stretch.
This continues to be one of the most mind numbing takes I keep seeing. Were some of you even watching the games last year? That was the worst Giants secondary I’ve ever seen as a fan. And that was before we cut our best player there.
I agree with the concerns about Okudah potentially suffocating our other young guys on the depth chart but acting like this wasn’t one of our worst units last year (by far THE worst unit imo) is just confusing.
This board (not all but most) have been for 2 months. It will be same problems with this team next year no pass rush and a bad offensive line. I can’t believe how many people want to take a corner back this high when the oline is still bad
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You people on here are obsessed with this guy. Every week since the combine all is see Okudah. We can’t rush the passer or block to saves our lives we won Super Bowls because of pass rush and good blocking 2007 and 2011 but let’s take another Ohio state CB. Can’t wait to be 4-12 agains next year
This continues to be one of the most mind numbing takes I keep seeing. Were some of you even watching the games last year? That was the worst Giants secondary I’ve ever seen as a fan. And that was before we cut our best player there.
I agree with the concerns about Okudah potentially suffocating our other young guys on the depth chart but acting like this wasn’t one of our worst units last year (by far THE worst unit imo) is just confusing.
I watch the games and I continue to see One of the worst offensive lines in the game and it’s been this way for years. Even Hernandez looked bad last year... it is a big problem. We need a center and a tackle
I frankly don't know how it could get much worse.
But the Defense should be getting better with experience. And the OL absolutely will be getting worse.
Lets look prospectively at the state of the team since its the Draft.
You pay the other 10 guys to tackle. The absolute last attribute to consider for elite cover corners is tackling
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is super soft, poor avoiding tackler.
You pay the other 10 guys to tackle. The absolute last attribute to consider for elite cover corners is tackling
That's nonsense. Soft play, much like physical play, has a tendency to be contagious.