Tis the season everyone! After what feels like a decade of the same broken record.
As every season plays out. As every QB hit grows that much more repetitive and vicious, as every stuffed RB in the back field grows more disheartened. With every loss, we all moan and proclaim the same damn thing, every single year.... "fix the O Line!"
And here we go again. As the draft approaches, our mindset of "fix the damn o line" starts to slowly skew. Usually due to some shiny new toy like Barkley or Simmons, as an example. I preface by saying I love both players, and understand why they would be considered. They are dynamic. In their own respective way.
To all that, if you draft a shiny new toy, you better make sure it is surrounded by a foundation that allows him to reach the highest of heights. For Barkley, the highest level, his ceiling, with blocking could be top 5 all time. Are we not tired of the two spins ahead of the line of scrimmage to salvage 2 yards? When do we let him loose? Downhill, with holes to hit?
Equally, you have your franchise QB (I'm confident in that) who just needs some damn seconds. The combination of the two, with real blocking opens up play action, something I feel like I rarely have seen in years. It cascades to Shep, Engram, Slayton, everyone's play. It controls the clock and rests the damn defense.
Yes, I'd prefer the trade back for our tackle, maybe to Miami, Carolina or Chargers. To that, if you have a tackle close in grade to Simmons, take him.. Enough is enough.
When does the lunacy end??? Can we shake the amnesia each year, finally, and get a stud on one of our o line ends. A first rounder. A day one starter?
If the Giants think one of the tackles will anchor the line for the next 8-10 years then it makes perfect sense to go that route.
I would also like to add not every QB can take a hit like Eli. What good will Jones be with torn ACLs or separated shoulders.
I would also like to add not every QB can take a hit like Eli. What good will Jones be with torn ACLs or separated shoulders.
Man ain't that the truth on Eli's ability to take a hit. Jones seems like a tough sob. But, he did get hurt year one. Tighten it up guys. Protect the shiny new toys you already signed early.
Detroit almost passed on Calvin Johnson because they had been burned on WR early for years prior. But they smartened us last minute and picked the best player and did not regret it.
I still think coaching plays a big part, and I'm hopeful they have finally fixed that. Guys like Solder and Zeigler were much better prior with their previous teams.
Also, the defense has been horrid, and hasn't been able to cover TEs for years. I'd say that is just as big a problem as O-Line play. If the talent is deemed better there, go with that pick.
Detroit almost passed on Calvin Johnson because they had been burned on WR early for years prior. But they smartened us last minute and picked the best player and did not regret it.
No, I didn't forget the defense. Nor did Getty who allocated his top assets to the defense in free agency. Equally, if you trade back for tackle, you stand to draft a day one LB in round two. Or 2.1 if you get an additional second.
Tackles cost 20 million after four or five years. LB not so much. I love Simmons, love him.
But if a 10 year tackle is there, you need to get him. Simmons helps the defense. A tackle like Wirfs or Wills helps the o line, and Barkley and Jones directly. Who you used two top 10 picks on.
I still think coaching plays a big part, and I'm hopeful they have finally fixed that. Guys like Solder and Zeigler were much better prior with their previous teams.
Also, the defense has been horrid, and hasn't been able to cover TEs for years. I'd say that is just as big a problem as O-Line play. If the talent is deemed better there, go with that pick.
Can we stop with Flowers. He would not be in this top 4 out of college. He was a project.
I still think coaching plays a big part, and I'm hopeful they have finally fixed that. Guys like Solder and Zeigler were much better prior with their previous teams.
Also, the defense has been horrid, and hasn't been able to cover TEs for years. I'd say that is just as big a problem as O-Line play. If the talent is deemed better there, go with that pick.
Cleveland was a bit of an Olineman factory, with Joe Thomas and some other studs and solid OL for several years...
Detroit almost passed on Calvin Johnson because they had been burned on WR early for years prior. But they smartened us last minute and picked the best player and did not regret it.
DG added a new upgrade to each level of the defense with franchising of Williams and additions of Martinez and Bradberry.
Next up...oline
Yeah, sure BBI said that.
The fact the oline has been bad longer makes no difference now.
The path to more wins (+coaching, maturation, health) is paved with talent. And whether that's the oline, safety, WR, linebacker makes no difference.
Quote:
DG added a new upgrade to each level of the defense with franchising of Williams and additions of Martinez and Bradberry.
Next up...oline
Not to mention Fackrell, the two 1st round picks, three 3rd round picks, the 4th and 5th round picks.
Play the long game.
Jones took a beating last year. Let's not give him amnesia.
JonC the 'long game' as you refer to it results in Jones failure as our QB. 3rd worst in the NFL allowing pressure last season must be addressed. We can't take our time anymore with the O-Line. The time is now. The Jones pick saw to that.
I like the 270lb TE we picked up in FA....should help
JonC the 'long game' as you refer to it results in Jones failure as our QB. 3rd worst in the NFL allowing pressure last season must be addressed. We can't take our time anymore with the O-Line. The time is now. The Jones pick saw to that.
It doesn't need to be the #4 overall pick. You like the crop, I do not. The end.
JonC the 'long game' as you refer to it results in Jones failure as our QB. 3rd worst in the NFL allowing pressure last season must be addressed. We can't take our time anymore with the O-Line. The time is now. The Jones pick saw to that.
but simmons is the only one. like the OP said every year they seem to neglect OL for corners or receivers or name any other position. at some point there needs to be a strategy to fix it. trade down and up in certain spots to get to where the value is for the OL. the problem with the giants has been this steadfast opposition to maneuvering the draft board to match value and need
Demarcus Lawrence, Gerald McCoy, Dontari Poe, Jaylon Smith
Jonathan Allen, Matt Ionnaidis, Montez Sweat, Ryan Kerrigan, and
Chase Young.
All good reasons to beef up that OL.
The fact the oline has been bad longer makes no difference now.
The path to more wins (+coaching, maturation, health) is paved with talent. And whether that's the oline, safety, WR, linebacker makes no difference.
Re-read my OP. Yes, if Simmons is graded far higher. If it's damn near close, well, I disagree. We also have Connelly coming back. RT is a gaping hole. LT will need to be filled next year. These are high priced positions that you cannot snatch in FA
Connelly, Martinez and round 2. You get Jones and Barkley killed and the last few years are a waste
Not 7-8 years painful
I hope our new coach and FO have more vision.
As I've posted on another thread: The D needs an impact player. But if you go D in the first it's very hard not to take an O-lineman in the 2nd, because the line needs reinforcements, and it's become tough to find starting-caliber linemen in the later rounds. But if you take a tackle in the first, you almost have to take a defender in the 2nd, because the defense was so bad. But at the end of the day, the Giants will stick to their board, and if someone falls to them that blows up their ideal plans, they'll probably go BPA. Or look to trade down.
We need a better tackle, for cheap, at least while Jones develops. In doing so, you save FA cash and buy your LB and for coverage.
I LOVE Simmons. If they take him I'll be totally cool with it. He's the real deal.
But how many more years guys? Trying to be cute with tackles and o line? How many. Go watch 2008. That's what I want; a line that says f+ck you, here we come. And sure they were a collective of a second rounder, another second rounder via free agency, a fifth and two un-drafted. But that sh+t doesn't happen all the time. We had Kareem Mckenzie. I want another like him. Now. In today's market Kareem costs 17-20 million.
Exactly what have we done to address and upgrade the O-line?
Nope. Edge rusher next year.
The only thing that trumps oline right now is a dominant edge rusher. So you pick Young.
Quote:
Would you say the same thing if for some minor miracle Chase Young dropped to us?
The only thing that trumps oline right now is a dominant edge rusher. So you pick Young.
Agree:
1) Chase Young
2) Ideally trade back a few spots, pick an OT, and then get an edge/LB with the 2nd pick from Jax/Miami
3) Pick an OT
Barring that unlikely occurrence no other prospect has significantly distanced himself from the high quality OT options available. Or made a convincing argument that any other priority trumps Jones and Barkleys success given our investment and the impact the QB position has on the game.
4: R1P4 - OT MEKHI BECTON
LOUISVILLE
36: R2P4 - WR BRANDON AIYUK
ARIZONA ST.
99: R3P35 - C TYLER BIADASZ
WISCONSIN
110: R4P4 - WR JAUAN JENNINGS
TENNESSEE
150: R5P4 - G CALVIN THROCKMORTON
OREGON
183: R6P4 - TE COLBY PARKINSON
STANFORD
218: R7P4 - OT SCOTT FRANTZ
KANSAS ST.
238: R7P24 - RB RAYMOND CALAIS
LOUISIANA
247: R7P33 - C COHL CABRAL
ARIZONA ST.
255: R7P41 - OT TERENCE STEELE
TEXAS TECH
But he didn't even finish his rookie contract before being dropped by the team that coveted him so much that they traded up to get him.
Frankly, I view Simmons as another one of those LB crap shoots. He might be great. Or he might bust.
Even Sy says you can make the argument that Center is this team's biggest need, as I have said for months. And they also really need a couple of really good OTs too, all this to protect their considerable investment in a franchise QB and a potentially great RB. Plus, they have already made some significant moves to upgrade the defense, particularly at LB and DB.
In looking at this team's needs and the talent available this spring, the needs and the talent definitely intersect at an OT in the first round and a C in the second round. That's exactly where need meets value, and that's what smart drafting is all about. More defensive upgrades are definitely needed, but they will have to wait.
Fix the damn OL now. Don't get Jones or Barkley hurt. And a better OL will also help keep the defense off the field which makes them better, too.
I would also like to add not every QB can take a hit like Eli. What good will Jones be with torn ACLs or separated shoulders.
Which teams have the best offensive lines and what have they won recently? I thought Dallas had a pretty good one.
Barring that unlikely occurrence no other prospect has significantly distanced himself from the high quality OT options available. Or made a convincing argument that any other priority trumps Jones and Barkleys success given our investment and the impact the QB position has on the game.
Three things a team needs to win...
- Find someone who can throw the ball well
- Find guys to protect him
- Find guys that can beat their protection guys and hit their guy who throws the ball well
I'm ok with b but there has to be a trade worth making. I am not ok with a)