Tis the season everyone! After what feels like a decade of the same broken record.
As every season plays out. As every QB hit grows that much more repetitive and vicious, as every stuffed RB in the back field grows more disheartened. With every loss, we all moan and proclaim the same damn thing, every single year.... "fix the O Line!"
And here we go again. As the draft approaches, our mindset of "fix the damn o line" starts to slowly skew. Usually due to some shiny new toy like Barkley or Simmons, as an example. I preface by saying I love both players, and understand why they would be considered. They are dynamic. In their own respective way.
To all that, if you draft a shiny new toy, you better make sure it is surrounded by a foundation that allows him to reach the highest of heights. For Barkley, the highest level, his ceiling, with blocking could be top 5 all time. Are we not tired of the two spins ahead of the line of scrimmage to salvage 2 yards? When do we let him loose? Downhill, with holes to hit?
Equally, you have your franchise QB (I'm confident in that) who just needs some damn seconds. The combination of the two, with real blocking opens up play action, something I feel like I rarely have seen in years. It cascades to Shep, Engram, Slayton, everyone's play. It controls the clock and rests the damn defense.
Yes, I'd prefer the trade back for our tackle, maybe to Miami, Carolina or Chargers. To that, if you have a tackle close in grade to Simmons, take him.. Enough is enough.
When does the lunacy end??? Can we shake the amnesia each year, finally, and get a stud on one of our o line ends. A first rounder. A day one starter?
I get your point. But I also remember how bad the defense has been last year and beyond, pathetically bad; play of the offensive line in comparison, not nearly as bad.
Not saying you re wrong about getting one of those tackles, but it s no slam dunk either.
I'm ok with b but there has to be a trade worth making. I am not ok with a)
The great thing about this year is there are some OT guys who aren’t reaches at #4.
the team needs more talent on both sides of the ball. We tried to force the trade on the o-line when we over-drafted guys like Flowers and Pugh.
I think the o-line coaching the last couple of years was dreadful. Confused players not picking up basic stunts.
I would happy with any of the top three defenders. And I wouldn't puke with an o-lineman that they had a real conviction about. But you can't force the trade.
Also, are the potential OT at top of round 2 much lesser a player than the top 6 that will be drafted in round 1?
Serious question
This idea that we have to spend a top pick on it every other year,and be like the Cowboys,is not necessary in my eyes.
Quote:
You draft a player. You trust your ranking at get the best player that fits a need. I want to fix the Oline too, but then when you're pegging yourself in like that you either a) reach to fill your need or b) trade down to maximize the overall draft assets and still get your position
I'm ok with b but there has to be a trade worth making. I am not ok with a)
The great thing about this year is there are some OT guys who aren’t reaches at #4.
I disagree and think #4 is too high for all of them. If we traded back to 6-9 that's where I think they slot.
IMO, Burow, Young, Okudah, Simmons, and Brown are all worthy of top 5 status and the OL don't measure up to any of those.
This idea that we have to spend a top pick on it every other year,and be like the Cowboys,is not necessary in my eyes.
Free agency painted the picture of what this pick is likely going to be.
80+ millions to spend
-15mil on CB
-15mill on 2 LBs
-3.5 mil on a backup swing tackle
-One of the best blocking TEs in the NFL (good help for a potential rookie tackle?)
For example take Simmons in round one and hope we get out best lb since LT. There will never be an LT so don't risread by statement.
In the second round OT like Wilson of Georgia, or Clevland, or the tackle from TCU should be available
In round 3 we can get our center, probably our greatest OL need with Hennessey or the kid from Wisky.
This may not meet with everyone's agreement but it looks at the draft strategically. That might solve some of the Giants greatest overall needs.
I hope going into the draft develop an overall strategy similar to this.
Also, are the potential OT at top of round 2 much lesser a player than the top 6 that will be drafted in round 1?
Serious question
Not a simple question. You can use Sy’s rating numbers I guess and tier the guys yourself.
If they are close then seems you go with least risk or highest positional need, or flip a coin.
Quote:
In comment 14863971 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
You draft a player. You trust your ranking at get the best player that fits a need. I want to fix the Oline too, but then when you're pegging yourself in like that you either a) reach to fill your need or b) trade down to maximize the overall draft assets and still get your position
I'm ok with b but there has to be a trade worth making. I am not ok with a)
The great thing about this year is there are some OT guys who aren’t reaches at #4.
I disagree and think #4 is too high for all of them. If we traded back to 6-9 that's where I think they slot.
IMO, Burow, Young, Okudah, Simmons, and Brown are all worthy of top 5 status and the OL don't measure up to any of those.
So at 4 they are a mistake but at 6 they work fine.
Uh huh.
Why can’t the offensive line get the better players and just get competence on defense?
And I would stray from this view that historical units can just be reincarnated.
Quote:
We need to start building the Oline through the draft but it doesn’t have to start with a top 5 pick. We are utterly lacking in playmakers especially on Defense. We aren’t going to win super bowls without that either. We don’t need superstars on Oline, just competence. But we better start getting players on the defensive side who give opposing side something to think about. With top 5 pick, that’s where I’m looking. That doesn’t prevent us from improving the Oline. Our best Oline was not a 1st round pick.
Why can’t the offensive line get the better players and just get competence on defense?
And I would stray from this view that historical units can just be reincarnated.
Quote:
In comment 14863982 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14863971 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
You draft a player. You trust your ranking at get the best player that fits a need. I want to fix the Oline too, but then when you're pegging yourself in like that you either a) reach to fill your need or b) trade down to maximize the overall draft assets and still get your position
I'm ok with b but there has to be a trade worth making. I am not ok with a)
The great thing about this year is there are some OT guys who aren’t reaches at #4.
I disagree and think #4 is too high for all of them. If we traded back to 6-9 that's where I think they slot.
IMO, Burow, Young, Okudah, Simmons, and Brown are all worthy of top 5 status and the OL don't measure up to any of those.
So at 4 they are a mistake but at 6 they work fine.
Uh huh.
Funny, I don't see the word mistake anywhere in my post. I simply disagreed with your statement there are some OT who aren't reaches at #4. I gave you the guys I have rated higher and that only includes one QB.
Care to list your non reach OT's and who you'd have them graded over out of the five players I listed?
Because to me if a guy is rated 6-9 and you take him at 4, that's reaching. It might not be a big reach but it's taking him above where he's graded. If you have the OT's rated higher than me that's fine, we just disagree. No need to put words in my mouth or the snarky uh huh.
Play the long game.
Sorry, but when you spend the #2 overall pick on a RB and the #6 pick on a QB in successive years, you do end up painting yourself into a corner with regard to your OL.
Unless of course you intend to play the reallllllly long game and replace both the RB and QB again before winning.
Quote:
In comment 14864020 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14863982 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14863971 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
You draft a player. You trust your ranking at get the best player that fits a need. I want to fix the Oline too, but then when you're pegging yourself in like that you either a) reach to fill your need or b) trade down to maximize the overall draft assets and still get your position
I'm ok with b but there has to be a trade worth making. I am not ok with a)
The great thing about this year is there are some OT guys who aren’t reaches at #4.
I disagree and think #4 is too high for all of them. If we traded back to 6-9 that's where I think they slot.
IMO, Burow, Young, Okudah, Simmons, and Brown are all worthy of top 5 status and the OL don't measure up to any of those.
So at 4 they are a mistake but at 6 they work fine.
Uh huh.
Funny, I don't see the word mistake anywhere in my post. I simply disagreed with your statement there are some OT who aren't reaches at #4. I gave you the guys I have rated higher and that only includes one QB.
Care to list your non reach OT's and who you'd have them graded over out of the five players I listed?
Because to me if a guy is rated 6-9 and you take him at 4, that's reaching. It might not be a big reach but it's taking him above where he's graded. If you have the OT's rated higher than me that's fine, we just disagree. No need to put words in my mouth or the snarky uh huh.
Eman - I thought the way you characterized the word "reach" that it is reasonable you were suggesting mistake. If not, that is my fault for bad interpretation.
And 4 to 6 to me isn't a reach but anyway that's not the way an NFL team typically selects. They tier the players and if done properly should prevent apparent reaches the way you are denoting.
IMV...
There are 2 blue-chip Tier 1 players - Burrow and Young
There are around 6 players in Tier 2 including two OTs - Tua, Wirfs, Wills, Brown, Okudah and Simmons.
Quote:
+1
Play the long game.
Sorry, but when you spend the #2 overall pick on a RB and the #6 pick on a QB in successive years, you do end up painting yourself into a corner with regard to your OL.
Unless of course you intend to play the reallllllly long game and replace both the RB and QB again before winning.
I get it, but it still would not dictate and force me to pick OT at #4.
I'd draft Wills. You rarely see the kind of smooth athletic footwork, balance, hip swivel with anchor, hand play with power, recovery ability(on the rare occasions he needs it) and finishers mentality in one OT.
1 sack allowed in 929 pass reps in the SEC and he's a plus level run blocker.
I'd draft Wills. You rarely see the kind of smooth athletic footwork, balance, hip swivel with anchor, hand play with power, recovery ability(on the rare occasions he needs it) and finishers mentality in one OT.
1 sack allowed in 929 pass reps in the SEC and he's a plus level run blocker.
Respectfully disagree with your tier placings.
I think both Okudah and Simmons are tier 1 draft prospects.
I'd draft Wills. You rarely see the kind of smooth athletic footwork, balance, hip swivel with anchor, hand play with power, recovery ability(on the rare occasions he needs it) and finishers mentality in one OT.
1 sack allowed in 929 pass reps in the SEC and he's a plus level run blocker.
Wills would be my guy if I was GM, but I think he can be a pro bowl RT for the next 8-10 years, or very close to it.
Our OL is Horrible. We need a LT, RT and a Center.
Get the LT and cut Solder and resign Golden.
Quote:
Exactly. The grades will be very close between these prospects.
I'd draft Wills. You rarely see the kind of smooth athletic footwork, balance, hip swivel with anchor, hand play with power, recovery ability(on the rare occasions he needs it) and finishers mentality in one OT.
1 sack allowed in 929 pass reps in the SEC and he's a plus level run blocker.
Respectfully disagree with your tier placings.
I think both Okudah and Simmons are tier 1 draft prospects.
Ok. That’s where we differ. Plenty here agree with you.