This is a great breakdown of his overall reasons for ranking.
1a Becton
1b Wills
3 Thomas
4 Wirfs
Becton - pros are size, athleticism, run blocking in zone scheme, ankle and hip mobility and suddenness, cons are he can get tired, lock of technique in pass blocking, not a ton of tape on him. Because of his ceiling and he doesn't see any issues a good OL coach can't correct, has has him 1a
Wills - pros are change of direction, ability to create power, mobility, technique is clearly the best in the draft, cons are he has some mental lapses with penalties and getting lulled to sleep by lesser opponents. Overall, he's the most pro ready and would clearly be the #1 guy if not for Becton upside, best movement skills in the draft and most sure-fire offensive lineman in the entire draft
Thomas - pros are very good athlete, good technique, tough, physical, cons are he gets overextended, struggles to recover, bull rush can be a concern. Doesn't create as much power and he can't stop power
Wirfs - pros are extremely strong and powerful, smart, tough, good technique. Cons - heavy legs, first step suddenness and quickness, change of direction could be better. Overall a great player who likely will be a tackle long term, but might be suited to start at guard because of mobility. He's a mauler but those types sometimes struggle to keep up with athletes on the edge
Overall it's a great read through, and Joe Thomas knows a thing or two about blocking...reading this makes me want Wills more and more.
Joe Thomas: OT rankings - (
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I will look but if you know, post who it was here.
thx
I don’t see an All Pro/Pro Bowl LT in any of these guys.
I will look but if you know, post who it was here.
thx
Nope, he never took OL in round 1 while at Carolina. He drafted Taylor Moton in the 2nd, Trai Turner in the 3rd, and Daryl Williams in the 4th throughout the various years.
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while with Carolina?
I will look but if you know, post who it was here.
thx
Nope, he never took OL in round 1 while at Carolina. He drafted Taylor Moton in the 2nd, Trai Turner in the 3rd, and Daryl Williams in the 4th throughout the various years.
Thanks ryan. So Moton was taken at #64 in 2017. He played both guard and tackle in college and has mostly been plugged in at Right Tackle for Panthers.
Was tryin to see if there was anything to glean from his prior OT picks but really not enough data points.
Agree.
Not really IMHO. Since he has been with the Giants it is not like there was an OL clearly worth the pick that we passed over to fill a position that was more of a luxury. In Carolina he had a few OL who were in their prime and he never really was in a position that an OL made sense. 2013 they draft Star Lotulelei and next OL picked was Justin Pugh. 2014 they were picking 28th and no OL were worth that pick. 2015 they picked Shaq Thompson who has been better than the next few OL drafted (Laken Tomlinson, Donovan Smith). 2016 they were picking 30th and no OL were worth that pick (although Germaine Ifedi went 31st he has been a bust). 2017 they picked some guy named Christian McCaffrey ahead of Bolles, Ryan Ramczyk.
+1 and if not Wills I’d go Thomas
Yet, they praise Thomas' strength/power and versatility...
1b Wills
3 Thomas
4 Wirfs
Becton most upside
Wills most ready
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it is pretty odd that he has literally never drafted OL in round 1, and he has been the GM for 7 NFL drafts. Perhaps it won't change this year. If there was ever a time though...
Not really IMHO. Since he has been with the Giants it is not like there was an OL clearly worth the pick that we passed over to fill a position that was more of a luxury. In Carolina he had a few OL who were in their prime and he never really was in a position that an OL made sense. 2013 they draft Star Lotulelei and next OL picked was Justin Pugh. 2014 they were picking 28th and no OL were worth that pick. 2015 they picked Shaq Thompson who has been better than the next few OL drafted (Laken Tomlinson, Donovan Smith). 2016 they were picking 30th and no OL were worth that pick (although Germaine Ifedi went 31st he has been a bust). 2017 they picked some guy named Christian McCaffrey ahead of Bolles, Ryan Ramczyk.
Yeah, kind of agree Mike. I don't think Carolina was in the same OL mess that we have now on the Giants so maybe the drastic need wasn't there. I don't think 7 drafts makes it unusual either, but would suggest it's getting close.
Is when he gets a little off balance, and you could swear he'll never right the ship, but then in a nano-second he re-adjusts his feet and then he's back in business.
You really gotta slow down the film to see how he actually recovers.
Pretty amazing.
Would love a trade-down of 2 - 4 slots and nab this guy along with an extra pick or two.
That would be ideal!
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I would take Wills first out of the four.
Agree.
Me too, actually I like Thomas as well. I love watching Becton destroy people but after reading all of the opinions from former lineman I'd be happiest with Wills and Thomas. That said I'm not arrogant enough to think I know enough to get overly pissed and/or overly excited about who we take in the draft... lol. I'll root for whoever we pick.
If you didn't see some of the mock drafts and only had these write-ups, you'd wonder how the hell he is even going to be picked in Rd 1.
I guess 2X First Team All-SEC doesn't go as far as it used to.
But, maybe that's not how they are viewing it, and they are viewing it as a "just take the best tackle" approach..in which case, that also might be Wills.
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it is pretty odd that he has literally never drafted OL in round 1, and he has been the GM for 7 NFL drafts. Perhaps it won't change this year. If there was ever a time though...
Not really IMHO. Since he has been with the Giants it is not like there was an OL clearly worth the pick that we passed over to fill a position that was more of a luxury. In Carolina he had a few OL who were in their prime and he never really was in a position that an OL made sense. 2013 they draft Star Lotulelei and next OL picked was Justin Pugh. 2014 they were picking 28th and no OL were worth that pick. 2015 they picked Shaq Thompson who has been better than the next few OL drafted (Laken Tomlinson, Donovan Smith). 2016 they were picking 30th and no OL were worth that pick (although Germaine Ifedi went 31st he has been a bust). 2017 they picked some guy named Christian McCaffrey ahead of Bolles, Ryan Ramczyk.
Quentin Nelsom?
But, maybe that's not how they are viewing it, and they are viewing it as a "just take the best tackle" approach..in which case, that also might be Wills.
Maybe they have had enough of Solder as a starting LT so that is what they are going to cover first. And then maybe either shift him to RT or pick a right tackle in Rd 2 or 3 to be ready to replace him in season.
Solder wasn't getting a ringing endorsement the other day.
Seriously though, Wills and Thomas just pass the eyeball test. Wirfs looks stiff to me and gets caught out of position on the outside.
I think Wirfs is getting a lot of love because of his blazing 40 time and other amazing combine drills. Happens every year.
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In comment 14873433 ryanmkeane said:
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it is pretty odd that he has literally never drafted OL in round 1, and he has been the GM for 7 NFL drafts. Perhaps it won't change this year. If there was ever a time though...
Not really IMHO. Since he has been with the Giants it is not like there was an OL clearly worth the pick that we passed over to fill a position that was more of a luxury. In Carolina he had a few OL who were in their prime and he never really was in a position that an OL made sense. 2013 they draft Star Lotulelei and next OL picked was Justin Pugh. 2014 they were picking 28th and no OL were worth that pick. 2015 they picked Shaq Thompson who has been better than the next few OL drafted (Laken Tomlinson, Donovan Smith). 2016 they were picking 30th and no OL were worth that pick (although Germaine Ifedi went 31st he has been a bust). 2017 they picked some guy named Christian McCaffrey ahead of Bolles, Ryan Ramczyk.
Quentin Nelsom?
An OG, even a stud one, over Barkley, Darnold, or Chubb? I don't know many teams who would do that. Not to mention an OG is different from an OT.
If Reese/Ross were still there I might agree with you, but DG does not seem as captivated by tools and no tool box.
Seriously though, Wills and Thomas just pass the eyeball test. Wirfs looks stiff to me and gets caught out of position on the outside.
I think Wirfs is getting a lot of love because of his blazing 40 time and other amazing combine drills. Happens every year.
Yes and NFL GMs fall for it over and over. He had one of the best OL coaches and still looked stiff. This is potentially Scherff redux.
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think it was my subconsious telling me Becton is such a Giants/DG pick.
If Reese/Ross were still there I might agree with you, but DG does not seem as captivated by tools and no tool box.
He does love his hog mollies.
Feck it, if he's the next Larry Allen, for Saquon!
Dexter Lawrence was drafted last year despite a PED suspension that caused him to miss the Cotton Bowl game.
He has made three Pro Bowls, including in 2019. As things look now, I would say he was one of the two best picks of that year's top ten, along with Amari Cooper.
All of the 2020 OT possibilities are imperfect, which is why the discussion goes 'round and 'round.
For anyone who thinks, this is "supposed to be" a good OT class and "we have to" get a long term OT . . . "supposed to bes" and "have tos" are the path to many a draft mistake.
The most important thing is to get a good player -- a very good player -- for the long term.
If not BPA, at least BOLA.
So who has the best tools? They all seem to have different strengths. Which ones are the most important to Judge/Garrett?
Who has the problems that are most correctable?
I noticed the same thing. Never seen a prospect with such a long list of negatives by an evaluator who then gives him a blue chip grade. And my man Boylhart is the perfect example of that...
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