Kimberly Jones
@KimJonesSports
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1m
The statement from the #NYG: “We are aware of the situation. We have been in contact with DeAndre. We have no further comment at this time.”
But wtf?
Why do this yet the getaway cars are Lambo, Mercedes... story was he lost $70 grand gambling a few days ago? Why not just stop gambling? You sign a deal for $10M and you decide to blow this all away?
But wtf?
Why do this yet the getaway cars are Lambo, Mercedes... story was he lost $70 grand gambling a few days ago? Why not just stop gambling? You sign a deal for $10M and you decide to blow this all away?
Well that seems obvious. Might have a gambling problem.
I'm a Logan Ryan fan but he is a slot defender. This is great news for Ballentine and Beal.
I’m not very confident in either. Both looked overmatched last year. At least Baker looked competent over the last quarter of the season. We’re probably gonna find out if either is worth a damn this year now.
- directing one of the others guys to shoot someone
- pointing guns directly at people
- left in vehicles that looked pre-positioned for a quick getaway suggesting planning
creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
While I’m not ready to shit on Dave for this yet, I need to go back and re-read Sy’s write up on Baker. I want to see if there were any character flags. If there were, then maybe we can question Dave’s decision to trade back into round 1 for him.
who did his homework and decided this guy is worth trading into the first round for.
Right because the good GMs can tell the fucking future.
All accounts showed baker wasn’t a problem child before being drafted. Carry on with the pitchforks some of you are fucking brutal and that’s being kind.
are both talented young players. Not like Baker is a lockdown corner. Very replaceable. Don't think the team is any worse off without him.
The worst thing about this is this is a guy the Giants spent draft capital to move up back into round 1 last year. They could have stayed put and had their pick between Dalton Risner, Erik McCoy, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf or Greedy Williams...all guys that I personally wanted over Baker.
Let Sam Beal and Corey Ballentine battle it out for the starting job and let Darnay Holmes start in the slot.
Or let's not jump to conclusions and see how this plays out? It seems like celebrity/athlete arrests always turn out way different than the first reports that come out.
are both talented young players. Not like Baker is a lockdown corner. Very replaceable. Don't think the team is any worse off without him.
The worst thing about this is this is a guy the Giants spent draft capital to move up back into round 1 last year. They could have stayed put and had their pick between Dalton Risner, Erik McCoy, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf or Greedy Williams...all guys that I personally wanted over Baker.
Let Sam Beal and Corey Ballentine battle it out for the starting job and let Darnay Holmes start in the slot.
Or let's not jump to conclusions and see how this plays out? It seems like celebrity/athlete arrests always turn out way different than the first reports that come out.
Obviously. I'm just acting as if there is some validity to these allegations. Logan Ryan is a slot guy. Let Sam Beal and Corey Ballentine battle it out for the outside CB position.
Baker was one of the more questionable moves by Gettleman from the get-go. I'll admit I did think he was going to be a good player (and I still think he has great talent in the right system-- namely focused on man-to-man coverage), but there were so many questionable pieces to it:
1) We traded a 3rd and a 5th to move up just 7 slots to get him. It felt to me like Gettleman was a little trigger-happy with the trade because he a) had so many picks on his hands, and b) missed out on trading up for Josh Allen earlier in the draft. But we really could have used that 3rd rounder now in hindsight.
2) There were 3 or 4 corners all of similar talent/value available at the time, and we were picking just 7 picks later, so I did not feel that CB wast the position to trade up for at THAT time if we were going to trade up.
3) DG had talked about "cleaning up the culture of the locker-room" and Baker had known character concerns. We'd cut/traded much more talented players with barely any "attitude problems" for the sake of the culture, then turn around and trade up for a guy with character concerns. Just weird.
4) Baker was known for his great skills in man-coverage. Some said he had the talent to become a "shutdown" man corner. So of course the Giants decide to play him in zone the entire year and he sucked. If you really know your DC's system how do you trade up for a corner who who doesn't fit said system. Just surprising that there seemed to be a clear disconnect between DG and Bettcher on that front.
So yeah, I was actually in favor of keeping DG another year, but still-- let's not forget the guy is 8-24 as a GM here, and let's wait until this team has an actual winning season on his watch before we give him high marks for a "great" off-season. He's done a number of things since he got here that are completely inexplicable, and I don't think this is fully a "hindsight is 20/20" situation with Baker. A lot of us saw these holes in DG's logic when he made the move to trade up and draft Baker and a year later much of those criticisms have been proven right.
In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft.
How many GM’s you think asked him in interviews:
“Hey, DeAndre, let me present you with a hypothetical situation:
Let’s say you go to a party with an automatic weapon and shit kind of hits the fan. How would you react?”
two for Gettleman. He also missed driver anger management issues with Lauletta!
Fucking blind asswipe!
Well, Gettleman preached “culture” after trading Beckham. The problem with a statement like that is when shit like this happens. Another wasted first round pick. Ugh.
"In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft," scouting site walterfootball.com wrote.
Nobody’s mentioned the falling asleep at team meetings. He’s toast. What a waste of a first round pick.
As an aside, I just finished watching the five-part OJ Simpson documentary. He unravels in south Florida.
I'd be surprised if he wasn't cut even though he was a first rounder.
"The morality clause, contained in Paragraph 11 of the standard NFL contract, simply allows teams to release players for “skill, performance and conduct”. The morality clause, however, does not allow a team to recoup any Bonus money paid (much less his entire bonus)."
Also doesn’t seem like Judge would want any part of this guy if this is true. Spending quality offseason time robbing people at gunpoint instead of just hanging out normally......fucking Christ
Can we let the judicial process take its course before we cut him
Every tweet that comes out really makes me question if he is a sane human being. This is almost Aaron Hernandez dumb. If the person he instructed to shoot would've actually done so and killed the person people would be talking about Hernandez. IDIOTS!
Cutting baker doesnt help them cap wise unless they can get out of his guaranteed money. Hes a first round pick.
If the charges are stick and he pleads guilty or is found guilty, it triggers the forfeiture clause that is standard in every player's contract. There is a bit of a process and a potential grievance that can be filed, but the Player's Association likely won't make an effort to represent Baker's interests.
Last season. He sorta played better down the stretch but wasn’t exactly living up to first round billing. If this is true, release him and next man up.
Dre Kirkpatrick injury-prone
Trumaine Johnson - was a huge FA bust for the Jets and couldn't stay healthy for a good part of his time there
Aqib Talib - yeah right
Eli Apple - bwahahahahaha
Brandon Carr - he knows Garrett...
All in all, Kirkpatrick or Johnson may be a decent signing to compete with Beal and Ballentine for the outside CB spot, but I'd be rooting REALLY hard for Beal. At least we know Beal can play a bit. He was up-and-down last season, but it was really his first game-action. Ballentine was awful throughout (albeit playing the slot).
creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
While I’m not ready to shit on Dave for this yet, I need to go back and re-read Sy’s write up on Baker. I want to see if there were any character flags. If there were, then maybe we can question Dave’s decision to trade back into round 1 for him.
creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
It was reported in more than one place that Baker fell in the draft due to character concerns. So especially for a team that preaches the “character” garbage, this is especially on them.
To think he was a first round pick that Gettleman traded UP for. The reason this franchise sucks? First round picks that yield zero return.
Flowers
Apple
Baker
Can’t keep missing these picks. I’d imagine Baker will be cut.
Every team whiffs on 1st rounders. Want to feel bad about first round picks? Look at Seattle over the last handful of years.
LJ Collier, Germain Ifedi, a backup RB Rashad Penny, trading back into round 2 to take Malik McDowell who never played a snap, trading first rounders for a declining Jimmy Graham and Percy Harvin- two guys who produced very little. They even topped it off by taking a LB in round 1 this year that many had as a round 3 prospect.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
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1m
DeAndre Baker didn't participate in the Giants' virtual meeting today or any of the other meetings during the team's voluntary minicamp this week, per source
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
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1m
DeAndre Baker didn't participate in the Giants' virtual meeting today or any of the other meetings during the team's voluntary minicamp this week, per source
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
1m
DeAndre Baker didn't participate in the Giants' virtual meeting today or any of the other meetings during the team's voluntary minicamp this week, per source
creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
No it didn’t. See link above. He gambled.
Your link posts no information whatsoever. Your grasping.
Unless you can prove to me that Baker was previously violent or this fucking stupid (like a Joe Mixon) then this is one of those scenarios that really sucks and it’s 100% on the player.
The Giants are very deep in the secondary, so they'll be ready to plug and play.
(But without guns.)
Really? Who’s their best player, Peppers? Bradberry? Because other than those two all I see is rookies or guys who didn’t cover themselves in glory as rookies,
creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
No it didn’t. See link above. He gambled.
Your link posts no information whatsoever. Your grasping.
Unless you can prove to me that Baker was previously violent or this fucking stupid (like a Joe Mixon) then this is one of those scenarios that really sucks and it’s 100% on the player.
There were off the field concerns. I remember reading that at the time.
You cut him and move on. He was a problem last year with his attitude and it continues. Now this garbage.
The tone needs to be set for the Judge area....here you go.
RE: There’s no way he gets out of jail time here......
Robbery, aggravated assault! Im wondering how the Giants will view this?! He’ll most likely get suspended by the league. Is he worth keeping around?
Only if we can’t get from out of the contract, and if he somehow still holds any value after this is all said and done. I think they will likely cut him if it cancels out the contract, crossing my fingers.
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
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3m
A spokesperson for Miramar Police told @BradyHenderson
that there have been discussions with at least one of the player’s representatives about turning himself in. But neither Baker nor Dunbar had done so as of 8:10 p.m. ET.
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Giants PR out doing damage control already I see. Thanks, Dave.
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
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3m
A spokesperson for Miramar Police told @BradyHenderson
that there have been discussions with at least one of the player’s representatives about turning himself in. But neither Baker nor Dunbar had done so as of 8:10 p.m. ET.
Baker turning himself in won’t alter the likely outcome here.
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Giants PR out doing damage control already I see. Thanks, Dave.
saying the same thing over and over doesn’t change the fact that you have nothing to actually go on here. You are passing blame on the guy drafting him instead of the player - think about that.
Bakers past didn’t suggest armed robbery. You are flat out lying if you claim otherwise.
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Those alone should have been a red flag not to trade up into the first round to take him.
RE: I can't think of any other NFL starter (Millionaire)
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Whether he's robbing someone or being unaccountable to the point where a coach (obviously wasn't going to be Shurmur) has to constantly evaluate whether or not he should be a part of the team...that's a guy you want on the team? Trade into the first round for? Right after the Beckham situation?
If we're being honest Baker hasn't flashed the on field thus far to warrant any of that.
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Yeah, but there was also talk that he removed the labels from his matress.
Looks like Getty may not have picked up the street in him during pre-draft interviews. Heard he told Dunbar or someone else with a gun to kill someone who was there. Minimum of 20 years. Just another dumbass punk.
Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
So it says pre-June 1, dead cap hit is $7.588M and a savings of $5.196M. Post June 1 cut Dead cap $4.75 M and $2.36 M savings... would it make more sense for NYG to wait until June 1, if they have less of a cap hit? And are there clauses in these players contracts where these types of situations nullify some cap hits to these players that ruin things for the teams?
Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
RE: at least they haven't found a dead body at his house?
Unreal, every off season there is always some ridiculous story of a key Giants player fucking up there life, JPP blows hand off in contract year, Jenkins brother murders someone in his house, Baker commits armed robbery and aggravated assault, oh boy, can’t wait for the next one.
Darnay Holmes only played 76 snaps at slot in his college career. Makes sense to play him outside initially and have Love man the slot for the time being.
Penalties for Robbery with a Firearm
The crime of Robbery with a Firearm is a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 9 offense severity ranking under Florida’s Criminal Punishment Code.
If convicted of Robbery with a Firearm, a judge is required to impose a minimum sentence of either the 10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement or 48 months in prison absent grounds to impose a downward departure sentence and can also impose any combination of the following penalties:
Up to life in prison.
Up to life on probation.
Up to $15,000 in fines.
10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement
Under Florida Statute 775.087(2)(a)(1), a person convicted of actually possessing a firearm during the commission of a Robbery with a Firearm, as opposed to being an unarmed accomplice, is subject to being sentenced under Florida’s 10/20/Life statute.
So it says pre-June 1, dead cap hit is $7.588M and a savings of $5.196M. Post June 1 cut Dead cap $4.75 M and $2.36 M savings... would it make more sense for NYG to wait until June 1, if they have less of a cap hit? And are there clauses in these players contracts where these types of situations nullify some cap hits to these players that ruin things for the teams?
What about the clause if your player commits armed robbery?!
I guess CB will be another hole to fill next offseason again.
So it says pre-June 1, dead cap hit is $7.588M and a savings of $5.196M. Post June 1 cut Dead cap $4.75 M and $2.36 M savings... would it make more sense for NYG to wait until June 1, if they have less of a cap hit? And are there clauses in these players contracts where these types of situations nullify some cap hits to these players that ruin things for the teams?
The Giants may be able to get this money back. I am not 100% sure how it works but I think any money that has been paid out already is paid out for the books but any guaranteed money not paid out yet may get taken off. Obviously, we'll have to see how this plays out first.
Penalties for Robbery with a Firearm
The crime of Robbery with a Firearm is a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 9 offense severity ranking under Florida’s Criminal Punishment Code.
If convicted of Robbery with a Firearm, a judge is required to impose a minimum sentence of either the 10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement or 48 months in prison absent grounds to impose a downward departure sentence and can also impose any combination of the following penalties:
Up to life in prison.
Up to life on probation.
Up to $15,000 in fines.
10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement
Under Florida Statute 775.087(2)(a)(1), a person convicted of actually possessing a firearm during the commission of a Robbery with a Firearm, as opposed to being an unarmed accomplice, is subject to being sentenced under Florida’s 10/20/Life statute.
This could easily be kicked up federally-Hobbs Act.
To paraphrase the late great David Stern the Giants are not a model of intelligent management.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
So it says pre-June 1, dead cap hit is $7.588M and a savings of $5.196M. Post June 1 cut Dead cap $4.75 M and $2.36 M savings... would it make more sense for NYG to wait until June 1, if they have less of a cap hit? And are there clauses in these players contracts where these types of situations nullify some cap hits to these players that ruin things for the teams?
There is no sense it doing the mental gymnastics on the cap consequences. Baker will either plead guilty to lesser charges or be convicted of the stated charges in the arrest warrant. I'm sure there are plenty of eyewitnesses to corroborate what happened to support the charges. It will be an open/shut case. Baker's only hope is to plead down to lesser charges to limit jail time.
The end result will trigger the forfeiture clause in his contract. It will void future guarantees on salary and allow the Giants to recoup the prorated portion of his signing bonus.
To paraphrase the late great David Stern the Giants are not a model of intelligent management.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
What a ridiculous post. Did he do anything in college to suggest this behavior? Missing a few team meetings in college does not equal this but I guess Gettleman should have saw this coming because you don’t like him.
You're up. Baker has played his last down in the league for a long time. He will never suit up in blue again unless this is a total fabrication which it doesn't appear to be.
To paraphrase the late great David Stern the Giants are not a model of intelligent management.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
You realize that as of right now, three of those players have a grand total of zero arrests, right? Technically, at this moment, all four - although that will change when Baker goes into custody.
Here's a little bit of hypocrisy though. You know what player many posters have called on the Giants to sign this offseason? Clowney. A player who was going to sit out a season in college, missed team meeting regularly and was at odds with teammates.
You're up. Baker has played his last down in the league for a long time. He will never suit up in blue again unless this is a total fabrication which it doesn't appear to be.
While this sucks it at least opens up a huge opportunity for Beal, Love, Ballentine, and Holmes.
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
To paraphrase the late great David Stern the Giants are not a model of intelligent management.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
It really should go without saying that Flowers, Beckham, and Apple should not be put in the same discussion as Baker in this situation. Those guys had their own issues, but this guy allegedly tried to have someone murdered. At the very least he's looking to be going away for 5 to 10 years for armed robbery, if not more. That's not comparable to punching a net.
is play holmes outside. 1 he's too small. but 2 if you want him to play the slot, play him in the slot. this team can't keep drafting guys and then playing them out of position. it doesn't help anyone
RE: RE: RE: RE: so where are the DG defenders now?
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
on this thread?? The guy had a loaded gun, pointed at someone, told an accomplice to SHOOT someone, committed grand theft in what appears to be a pre meditated pre planned robbery. IF true, he’s going to jail for a VERY long time.
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
He might have mentioned some minor stuff but to suggest that Gettleman should have seen this coming is absolutely ridiculous. I remember Sy complimenting the Giants they took Baker even though he had Murphy ranked higher.
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft.
fact that Baker has not immediately turned himself in is a TERRIBLE sign.
WTF was going through this guy's head? Sounds like he lost some serious coin gambling and he must have lost his shit. But this has a premeditated feel to it.
Did he honestly think there would be no consequences? WTF?
picks like candy. Doesn't look good for DG. But I wouldn't want to be whoever pushed for this kid. Meaning a scout. Did anyone do any kind of background intel on him before deciding they take a shot and give up pics to move down for this idiot. Even if not all the facts are correct he sure hangs around with some questionable people. NFL teams never learn including the Giants. If you have someone ranked as a first round talent you better be able to back that pic up inside and out. Some teams build thru the draft but the Giants destroy thru the draft.
can't always account for character issues in the players they draft is correct. But it's important acknowledge and accept that this applies to both the current and the past GMs of the Giants.
Pick up some talented player with an iffy background the chorus around here is that the Giants only want team captains and choir boys and ignore talent. Gettleman took a shot on talent I can’t kill him for it.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
Pick up some talented player with an iffy background the chorus around here is that the Giants only want team captains and choir boys and ignore talent. Gettleman took a shot on talent I can’t kill him for it.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
Baker was the #1 ranked CB last year and considered a steal by many when drafted... there is no way to know how these clowns are going to act when all of a sudden they become millionaires before they earn a cent.
Baker was the #1 ranked CB last year and considered a steal by many when drafted... there is no way to know how these clowns are going to act when all of a sudden they become millionaires before they earn a cent.
If you ignore the character concerns that were reported.
fact that Baker has not immediately turned himself in is a TERRIBLE sign.
WTF was going through this guy's head? Sounds like he lost some serious coin gambling and he must have lost his shit. But this has a premeditated feel to it.
Did he honestly think there would be no consequences? WTF?
He is busy blasting his girlfriend in the butt. Where he is going, he'll likely be the one getting blasted.
he’s got a problem. He pointed a gun a someone and told someone else to shoot someone!! And according to Duggan, he hasn’t participated at all in the off season Zoom program. So he had made a conscious decision to take his life in another direction. This isn’t like Plax doing something “stupid”. The guy is an armed criminal (allegedly at this point).
he’s got a problem. He pointed a gun a someone and told someone else to shoot someone!! And according to Duggan, he hasn’t participated at all in the off season Zoom program. So he had made a conscious decision to take his life in another direction. This isn’t like Plax doing something “stupid”. The guy is an armed criminal (allegedly at this point).
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
Baker and LT. Great comparison. And LT’s problems began years after he got here.
Baker was the #1 ranked CB last year and considered a steal by many when drafted... there is no way to know how these clowns are going to act when all of a sudden they become millionaires before they earn a cent.
If you ignore the character concerns that were reported.
Which were.....what?
I never heard any.
Anyway, that is the end of that career. Next step - license plates!
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
Baker was the #1 ranked CB last year and considered a steal by many when drafted... there is no way to know how these clowns are going to act when all of a sudden they become millionaires before they earn a cent.
If you ignore the character concerns that were reported.
I'm still waiting for you to list his arrests and off the field incidents.
Skipping a bowl game isn't a red flag. Christian McCaffery and Leonard Fournette are among ones who did.
Funny that Greedy Williams is mentioned above as a player we could have drafted. He also skipped a bowl game and actually had off the field incidents.
If you are going to disqualify players who had questionable work ethic, you can identify at least 5 players in the 1st round each year with those whispers.
How many of those guys go onto commit armed robbery. You are literally acting as if it was a foregone conclusion Baker was going to get arrested and that the GM should have seen it
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
Incredible isn’t it? We can’t just talk about how stupid Baker is and how he should be held accountable for his actions. Instead some use it to push their agenda.
In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft.
I always reserve judgement when there are legal situations
Reports are often wrong. The media jumps to conclusions. They get their facts wrong. So until this whole thing gets verified I'd slow roll the attack dog mentality.
IF the alleged events being reported are essentially correct there is only one person to blame. Baker. We're talking about weapons being pulled and used to commit felonies. No one predicted anything remotely of this nature in his evaluations leading up to the Draft. No one.
to have to do better to connect the dots that whispers with no arrests or disciplinary action will eventually lead to a guy trying to be OJ.
From the count I can come up with, over 50 players skipped bowls in the past 5 years. I counted 17 first rounders and stopped with about half the list left:
Quote:
A player's decision to forgo bowl season is oftentimes a lucrative decision, an idea that originally took center stage several years ago when premiere ballcarrier Christian McCaffrey at Stanford and LSU's Leonard Fournette deemed it would be in their best interests to prepare early for the NFL Draft and avoid injury risk.
Last season, more than a dozen players bailed on bowl season including West Virginia quarterback Will Grier, South Carolina wideout Deebo Samuel and Houston's Ed Oliver.
There's a difference between character concerns and off-the-field issues. Baker had character concerns, but until now we didn't know about any off-the-field concerns.
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
Pick up some talented player with an iffy background the chorus around here is that the Giants only want team captains and choir boys and ignore talent. Gettleman took a shot on talent I can’t kill him for it.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
LOL - could not agree more. As far as some are concerned, DG is wrong no matter what he does.
Still am, but he was the 30th pick. Took a chance and missed, it happens.
What upsets me thinking about all this is we traded up to get him and now we likely have to use premium assets again next spring at CB because I have little expectations of success for Beal and Ballentine. Another hole will be created once he’s inevitably cut to go along with WR, Edge, and LB.
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
Incredible isn’t it? We can’t just talk about how stupid Baker is and how he should be held accountable for his actions. Instead some use it to push their agenda.
One more time. There were reported off the field/character concerns. So he was a risk. If you’re willing to take the risk, you have the responsibility if something blows up. Caveat emptor.
that Gettleman should have known better about this guy's character issues before drafting him. But him coming in as the GM and sending out this message that he's going to clean up the "culture" in the Giants locker room by dispelling the perceived bad apples of the team certainly opens him up for criticism when he (inevitably) has a bad apple on his team. This one happens to be a doozy.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
Buried above was a comment that Baker wasn’t on the
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
RE: Whenever the Cowboys
Scuzzlebutt : 9:32 pm : link : reply
In comment 14902883 Oscar said:
Quote:
Pick up some talented player with an iffy background the chorus around here is that the Giants only want team captains and choir boys and ignore talent. Gettleman took a shot on talent I can’t kill him for it.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
LOL - could not agree more. As far as some are concerned, DG is wrong no matter what he does.
Cowboys didn't really hit it out of the park with Randy Gregory
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
Meh. No big deal. No reason to be mad, apparently.
RE: RE: RE: I can’t believe the group of mental midgets
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
You are tough. Gettleman even gets discredited for a year he wasn't here!!
should have listened to all those numerous pre-draft reports about this guy being a huge risk for pre-meditated armed robbery with assault weapons.
Are you guys really this fucking stupid? You can't be. This is just an emotional reaction needing to blame someone right?
You'd think blaming Baker would be good enough. Did people kill Reese for Plax shooting up his sweatpants? No. Must be we got a ring with him, so that's good work!!
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Agreed. But, Jones & Lawrence are much more crucial from the draft. Those picks will tell the story of the 2019 draft. I hate trading up for a player who will be cut. But, he was the 30th pick.
Miramar is close to the Broward , Miami-Dade county line about 10 miles south of Weston where my house was when I lived there. It’s not an affluent area, more ethnic than other parts of Broward and has a higher crime rate. Not a lot of people with Rolexs there. This party had to have been targeted. Makes me wonder if the reason Baker hasn’t participated in off season stuff was he was planning this.
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Agreed. But, Jones & Lawrence are much more crucial from the draft. Those picks will tell the story of the 2019 draft. I hate trading up for a player who will be cut. But, he was the 30th pick.
Flowers was 9th & Apple was 10th. Not the same.
30th pick is a first round pick. We also traded up, as you mentioned. Now 1st round picks (and ones that we trade up for) don't matter? I hope the FO doesn't think that way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I can’t believe the group of mental midgets
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
You are tough. Gettleman even gets discredited for a year he wasn't here!!
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Yes, it matters. It’s a big setback. But, the 30th pick in the draft is far from a sure thing. Just look at all the 2017 draft and how many teams did not pick up 5th year options.
Granted, I’d expect more production than 1 shitty rookie season. The trade up annoys me more than the pick itself.
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Agreed. But, Jones & Lawrence are much more crucial from the draft. Those picks will tell the story of the 2019 draft. I hate trading up for a player who will be cut. But, he was the 30th pick.
Flowers was 9th & Apple was 10th. Not the same.
I think you may be underselling how much this is going to hurt. Dave had enough conviction in Baker to trade draft capital in order to acquire him. To me, that means Dave thought he could be a foundational type piece to what he’s trying to build here. Now, that’s all going to be gone and what is created is another hole to fill with premium assets in the near future. I was hoping to fill what should be a top 10 pick next year with a WR or Edge rusher. Now we need to add CB to the mix.
Yes, it matters. It’s a big setback. But, the 30th pick in the draft is far from a sure thing. Just look at all the 2017 draft and how many teams did not pick up 5th year options.
Granted, I’d expect more production than 1 shitty rookie season. The trade up annoys me more than the pick itself.
Fair enough. The pick annoys me just as much as the trade up. You have to hit on first round picks.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
For starters, Hernandez had multiple failed drug tests in college. And, were the Pats killed for drafting him, or did Hernandez's crimes stand on their own?
You can't even name the red flags that Baker had. I pointed out the concerns - none that were technically off-field.
Bye DeAndre. You stupid MFer, scumbag, idiot. You had a Financial future Most people can only dream about. You failed, your parents failed, your posse failed. You are done, enjoy life in prison making license plates and talking about your college career. F YOU!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: so where are the DG defenders now?
In comment 14902850 GiantsFan84 said:
prove it or it didn't happen , plain and simple
Quote:
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: so where are the DG defenders now?
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
Bit!!!!!! Almost time to start looking at the 2021 draft class.....knowing another top ten pick is once again possible if this pattern continues. Bad things happen, to bad teams. Baker was a real waste of a pick even before he created the possibility of going away for armed robbery. He was, for opposing quarterbacks, a great opportunity for them to pad their stats. Cmon coach judge, whip these 9 year losers into a team!
Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
Please tell me how Dave Gettleman should’ve known that Baker was going to commit a crime? There were no criminal records of Baker, prior to this incident. How the hell should get them in now? You have an agenda on Dave Gettleman and you often post everything that goes wrong with the Giants and attempt to transpose it on to Gettleman. Your argument is fallacious when it comes to Such an incident as this. Was it the Cleveland Browns GM’s fault for drafting Ernie Davis and after Davis being diagnosed with cancer? How did the Cleveland Browns management know that? He shown no signs of cancer at that time. Same would apply to Dave Gettleman with this situation. There were no criminal records indicating that Baker would perform such an act. If you can give me a decent argument, you may convince me. Otherwise, you have no argument.
“Andre, his wife Chemika, along with the rest of the Baker family, rallied around Deandre’s pursuits and established structure in his life at an early age. Those close to Baker urged him as he grew to work hard in his athletic and academic settings, knowing that success on both fronts meant a bright future. Andre also used his young son’s physicality to instill discipline, getting his son to do 200 or 300 push-ups every night as a means to build an inner strength he still displays.
The reliability within the Baker household was especially important in Miami, where distraction and destruction shadow the area like a defensive back in pursuit of his man.
But along with those soon-to-be collegiate players were others who had brushes with the law or brushes with death.
“You're coming up in an area where maybe a couple of times a month – and I'm not exaggerating – somebody you go to school with or somebody you play football with just got killed,” said Eddie Brown, who coached Baker in his senior year at Miami Northwestern Senior High School. “As a young man dealing with those kind of things, it's major to have someone you can lean on, have someone you can pick up the phone and call, have somewhere where you know you're going to get a good meal or go somewhere you know where you're going to be safe. All those things were provided to Deandre. That kept him afloat.”
Baker’s family enabled him to avoid the pitfalls of the city while urging him to stay grounded and strive for what he desired. He said he understood around the time he was in sixth grade that his physical gifts and knack for making plays could be the ticket to a better education and an improved situation.
“In Miami, football is the only way out,” Baker said.
Prior to the draft last year? I know his rep coming out of Georgia was that he had “swagger” and was cocky. How did he pass the general good for for the team test from the get go?
Sounds like he was never going to be a good player for the Giants and based on reports he hadn't participated in any off-season zoom meeting would likely have been cut before the end of camp. In this scenario, they won't be on the hook for the entirety of his originally guaranteed rookie contract.
Better to lose him now then go through the whole process of waisting years on a first round pick because of the investment.
Proof positive that the draft is a crapshoot. Therefore,
He will go to prison and the Giants won't be on the hook for his 2020-22 salaries. They can sue him for the unamortized portion of his signing bonus, but I doubt they see a penny of that. At least this is my understanding, I could be wrong. Not sure about getting salary cap relief from unamortized bonus money.
There also could be issues with getting cap relief on guaranteed money if they release before a guilty plea, but I would think not. If they forego releasing him with a statement about waiting until the legal process plays out, that is the likely reason.
And I'm not even talking about the fact that he chose to rob a bunch of people of thousands of dollars when he is worth millions of dollars. As stupid as that is, I can comprehend it. What I can't comprehend is how in the world he and his buddies thought they would get away with it? If they had killed everyone in the house, it would've been a far more evil act, but it wouldn't've been as incomprehensibly stupid, because at least then they wouldn't've left behind multiple witnesses to identify them. They still wouldn't've gotten away with it, but at least there would be some kind of logic in which I could imagine why they might think they would get away with it.
...when he robbed the memorabilia dealers of his own memorabilia. They will claim they were cheated out of $70K days before and were merely getting money back that was rightfully theirs. That's the only thing I can think of when it comes to their thought process.
He is an NFL PLAYER !!!!!!!!! Per Spotrac he made this much in 2019 >>>>>>> $1,913,766...….WHY DOES HE NEED MONEY ?????????????????????????????????????????………….WHY DOES HE NEED TO PULL OFF AN ARMED ROBBERRY ???????????????????????????????????????????
He is an NFL PLAYER !!!!!!!!! Per Spotrac he made this much in 2019 >>>>>>> $1,913,766...….WHY DOES HE NEED MONEY ?????????????????????????????????????????………….WHY DOES HE NEED TO PULL OFF AN ARMED ROBBERY ???????????????????????????????????????????
Love can play outside. I also agree that it's a great opportunity for Beal and Ballentine. Holmes is a slot CB in the NFL.
Baker's attitude concerns should have been more than enough at a minimum to convince the Giants not to trade three draft picks for him. As someone said, they also missed or minimized Lauletta's driving issues.
Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
I’m just wondering what the psychology is here that your first and only reaction to the news that the Giants have wasted yet another first round draft pick (that they also traded valuable assets to move up to acquire) is to run to this message board and defend David Gettleman’s honor against all comers. Seriously, are you Dave Gettleman? Are you related to him? Is he your friend? It’s just bizarre at this point and a little creepy.
Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
I’m just wondering what the psychology is here that your first and only reaction to the news that the Giants have wasted yet another first round draft pick (that they also traded valuable assets to move up to acquire) is to run to this message board and defend David Gettleman’s honor against all comers. Seriously, are you Dave Gettleman? Are you related to him? Is he your friend? It’s just bizarre at this point and a little creepy.
And for the record, I don’t blame Gettleman for this. It’s just bad luck for the team. The player was god awful last year, but I’ll accept that he still could have developed into a good corner for the sake of argument. The reason I made fun of you was that I’m scrolling through this thread shortly after it starts and you are here obviously frothing at the mouth just waiting for someone to take a shot at Gettleman so you can jump on them. It’s weird.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
2h
All the details from police on #Giants DeAndre Baker charged with 4 counts of armed robbery, 4 counts of aggravated assault.
This is strike..
FatMan in Charlotte : 7:54 pm : link : reply
two for Gettleman. He also missed driver anger management issues with Lauletta!
Fucking blind asswipe!
Then the moron brigade showed up and wasn't focused on Baker's acts, but on how the GM could have possiblyu ignored such blatant signs that he had the next Al Capone in his ranks.
I'm not defending Gettleman, I'm calling the people out, like your idiotic ass, who want to pin it on him instead of Baker.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
2h
All the details from police on #Giants DeAndre Baker charged with 4 counts of armed robbery, 4 counts of aggravated assault.
Gun involved means >>>>> Assault With a Deadly Weapon .
He deserves criticism, but I wouldn't be too hard on him. He gambled and lost. Recall what Gettleman said in a recent interview, the first thing they do is evaluate each prospect based on the film and measurables and assign him a grade, then they factor in character. I'm guessing Baker was flagged for character, but his grade made him worth the risk at the point in the draft. And I'm sure the coaches were telling him they could coach him up.
I'll say this (and I'm a Gettleman fan), it's one thing to take a character risk that falls into your lap, it's another thing to trade up for one.
Deandre Baker is an utter and complete moron (most likely scenario) or someone is lying to the cops.
My guess is that he lost at cards or some other gambling game and thought he was cheated, so he and his fellow NFL'er returned the next day to attempt to win back their losses and perhaps felt cheated for a second time and so upturned the table and took valuables at the point of a gun.
This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to fit.
Seems hard to believe someone would do this who was not under the influence of something.
You could be wrong. Sounds like an illegal card game and he got mad at losing . Fucking moron. Shit attitude and this now. Cut his ass. Period.
Also even worse he probably wasn’t wearing hiss PPE and social distancing which is even worse than pulling a gun these days
They are off the hook for $3.35M in guaranteed salary going forward. And they can sue him for $4.26M of the $5.68M signing bonus he received. I'm not sure if they have to actually get the money back for them to get salary cap relief.
Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
I’m just wondering what the psychology is here that your first and only reaction to the news that the Giants have wasted yet another first round draft pick (that they also traded valuable assets to move up to acquire) is to run to this message board and defend David Gettleman’s honor against all comers. Seriously, are you Dave Gettleman? Are you related to him? Is he your friend? It’s just bizarre at this point and a little creepy.
It’s an embedded response of certain posters to come here and automatically defend the front office for every move (regardless of the Baker action), specifically one member of the front office, before anyone even ventures a critique of an organization that’s been around 49-73 since 2013 and has accumulated the worst record in the NFL over the last 3 seasons. I guess roster construction doesn’t fall under the duty of the front office at all and stating the obvious - this organization has been horrible at every level for nearly a decade- makes you part of the “moron brigade.” Alrighty then...
(*If true) I can see this happening as stupid as it is. You can take the kid off the street but cannot take the street out of the kid. What a gaping asshole - even if he only made it through the one contract - the good he could have done for his family, freinds, community. selfish, impulsive asshole - f*** him
One of my roommates in the service was from Miami. The stories he'd tell me...
Not minimizing what the kid did but kids who survive living in neighborhoods like that are damaged. It's analogous to tours in a combat zone and these are kids going through this.
We are shocked because the kid had so much to lose. Demons don't give a fuck about what you have. The main thing that separates this kid from many of the others is he was able to cash in on his athletic ability for a while. You'd be amazed at the number of athletes with professional ability who fall by the wayside.
I am not at all dismissing the risk of head trauma in football but Baker is most likely just a fucking idiot and a bad guy. That can be the case without a brain injury.
cut him and move on (sign Logan Ryan and I'd consider us ahead)
when we fired that south east scout a few weeks ago I thought it might have been due to him not red flagging Deandre Baker off the field and I think i'd still bet on that. I mean, all the rest of our picks in that region in the last 2 years were pretty good (Hill, Carter, Lawrence, Jones).
this is my wild ass theory with 0 info - Judge came to town along with a bunch of UGA/SEC people and they knew Baker was a huge pain in the ass and they said "how did you trade up for that guy last year". Obviously you aren't picking a 1st round pick based solely on what an area scout says, but I do think you are relying on that area scout to do the background check to some degree and talk to the people at the program since they are making the trips and anyone can put on a good face once it gets to a combine interview.
Also...how many resources has DG used to fill the starting CB spots?
A high 2nd round pick, 4th and a 5th for Baker.
A 3rd rounder for Beal.
A 4th rounder for Love.
A 6th rounder for Ballentine.
A 4th rounder for Holmes.
So, that is a huge FA deal and 7 draft picks in the last 2 drafts on guys who were cornerbacks. And unless one of those guys emerges, it is still a huge question mark heading into 2020. Expect another high pick spent on CB next year (assuming these accusations hold true)
was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
Reese collected a number of knuckleheads via draft and free agency that Gettleman determined were part of the culture problem.
He then picks a knucklehead in Lauletta, explicitly tasks Janoris Jenkins as the teacher and mentor of a young crop of players, and drafts a guy in Baker with on the field concerns.
The Giants seem to have a little bit of trouble weeding out bad actors. This is two straight GMs with some trouble in this area.
was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
Still am, but he was the 30th pick. Took a chance and missed, it happens.
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Just as a point of contention the last five 1st round picks (not including this year), are Daniel Jones, Dexter Lawrence, DeAndre Baker, Saquon Barkley, and Evan Engram.
Eli Apple (2016) was the year prior to Engram, and Ereck Flowers (2015) the year prior to that.
I'm not a DG hater nor a DG defender. The truth is, he has had his hits and misses, and on some things I think he's done well, but...he does deserve criticism here. It's not that you're going to see an armed robbery coming, but when you have a player with a character flag like Baker had coming into the draft, and he did, you don't trade your 4th and 5th rounders (#132 and #142) to move up 7 spots and give that guy $10.5 million dollars with $9 million guaranteed with the following players playing the same position on the board still:
Player------------Overall Pick # Drafted
Byron Murphy--#33
Rock Ya-Sin--#34
Sean Murphy-Bunting--#39 (All-Rookie Team for the Bucs taken after Giants 2nd round pick at #37 they traded up from).
Trayvon Mullen--#40
JoeJuan Williams--#45
Greedy Williams--#46
Lonnie Johnson--#54
So look, we can acknowledge there is no crystal ball here for DG while also acknowledging that trading up from #37 for a guy with reported character issues and work ethic issues...with the talent that was on the board at the position...was a painful mistake. Again, they gave up #37, #132, and #142 for Baker...and took him ahead of all those other guys, not to mention the other talents that were there on the board like A.J. Brown, who I had as my #1 WR in the draft.
You can't just say that character doesn't fit into the calculus, and he didn't have to rob a card game to have been a poor investment because of that poor character. You're falling asleep in team meetings probably because you're partying all night and not taking your profession seriously. You're not participating in voluntary team meetings over a computer, from your own home...because of what good reason?
You can't just say that it's unreasonable for DG to see what would happen with Baker and then just whitewash any responsibility for the heavy investment he made, even if it's true that he couldn't foresee an armed robbery in Baker's future. The point is, he didn't need to...the investment to trade up was too much for a character flag, especially one without elite physical traits for the position (lack of elite speed and average size) with what was on the board.
I've defended DG before and will do so again on Saquon and Will Hernandez, and give him kudos for conviction on Jones. I wouldn't have taken Andrew Thomas but hey, I give him the benefit of the doubt.
But I never got that pick at #30 last year because it was the trade up that never made sense to do that. Just wait until 37 and get one of the other corners, or whatever other very good talent falls to you.
they're all shopping in the same market. we have no idea how many of them lose players because of personality issues
knuckleheads is one thing - this is violent potentially deadly behavior.
we drafted a kid about ten years ago everyone raved about his character because he helped take care of his handicapped brother. guy would up going to prison along with his girlfriend for beating a child to death. hard to tell what's going on inside some of tehs ids head
was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
We truly are cursed. Every off season it is something. Chad Jones destroys his legs in a gruesome car wreck, JPP blows his hand off, Ballentine gets shot after draft night with his best friend getting killed next to him, Jenkins brother kills a man in his house, now Baker with this. Always one step forward two steps back with this franchise, just can’t get out of our own way. It’s pathetic and sad, yet all you can do is laugh cause it’s such a comedy of errors.
was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
I’d have assumed it was actually the Bengals, Cowboys or Redskins before the Giants, personally.
RE: RE: I read the warrant...it's as ugly as it gets
4 victims of armed robbery and aggravated assault with a weapon with multiple witnesses having given statements and signed affidavits.
The longer this goes without him turning himself in I fear he may do something even more desperate and stupid. What a waste and a shame.
I thought the same too. This may not be over yet.
Giants must have more information on this then what’s being reported. If the inside info is bad, you’d expect them to release him tomorrow. Similar to when the Pats cut Hernandez the same day he received murder charge.
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*I was surprised by the trade up, and I was surprised by the selection. Before I get in to why, know that I had a top 15 overall grade on him and I think it was a great value-grab. What surprised me was the fact he didn�t receive a lot of love from the UGA coaching staff when it came to character and work ethic. In addition, it was public knowledge he didn�t interview very well. While that is all subjective and it shouldn�t be a make or break, with how NYG has been trying to steer this �team culture� idea back on the straight and narrow, a trade up for Baker was puzzling. In addition, there were a handful of corners there that fit the similar grade. Was it necessary to trade up? I�m not sure but I do understand why. They had picks to burn, Baker was their top guy that probably fits the scheme more than the others, and there is one more thing that may go unnoticed by some. Drafting Baker in round 1 allows for the 5th year team option to be added to the rookie contract so that if he does indeed become a big time player, they won�t have to pay him big time money until his sixth season. Baker will likely compete for a starting spot opposite Janoris Jenkins with Sam Beal and if I had to pick a winner right now, it is Baker. He is a competitor that shows up on game day and plays well in the highest-pressure situations. Really good fit and a really good pick.
WHO I WOULD HAVE TAKEN
Byron Murphy � CB/Washington - 5�11/190
Summary: Third year sophomore entry. Murphy missed 7 games in 2017 with a broken foot but came back with a 1st Team All Pac 12, 2nd Team All American performance. Despite the lack of game�experience, Murphy proved to be one of the more NFL-ready corners in the class with his top shelf athletic ability and ball tracking. He does play a little light which will need to change in the NFL, but his aggressive style and fast twitch reactions make him scary to throw near. If the technique can get cleaned up and he can improve in zone coverage, he has starting corner written all over him.
*The need for more talent at corner was obvious. With NYG back on the clock, Murphy was my top available player and because I like the upside and character with him more so than Baker, I leaned in his direction even though he may struggle to handle bigger, more physical receivers more so. Murphy is Mr. Smooth out there with the anticipation and reaction I always look for from the position. He screams �dependable� every time I watch him and I love who this kid is off the field.
We truly are cursed. Every off season it is something. Chad Jones destroys his legs in a gruesome car wreck, JPP blows his hand off, Ballentine gets shot after draft night with his best friend getting killed next to him, Jenkins brother kills a man in his house, now Baker with this. Always one step forward two steps back with this franchise, just can’t get out of our own way. It’s pathetic and sad, yet all you can do is laugh cause it’s such a comedy of errors.
Wasn't an offseason thing, but you forgot Plax. That one cost the Giants a super bowl.
Of course it's not JUST the Giants (why did Vick have to fight dogs?), but they've sure had their fair share.
Someone of you make it sound like Baker interviewed like Myron Rolle
was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
I mean isn't there someone in his circles of family/friends REMINDING him that his is an NFL player and pick the circles you hang out in better ?????
Josh Jacobs 87.1
Nick Bosa 86.7
Dexter Lawrence 76.1
Marquise Brown 70.8
Jeff Simmons 70.4
Josh Allen 68.4
Darnell Savage 68.0
Dwayne Haskins 67.6
Quinnen Williams 67.4
N'Keal Harry 66.6
Chris Lindstrom 66.6
Daniel Jones 65.7
Ed Oliver 65.6
Christian Wilkins 64.4
Kyler Murray 64.2
Brian Burns 63.7
Devin Bush 62.9
Clelin Ferrell 62.2
TJ Hockenson 60.5
Montez Sweat 60.2
Andre Dillard 59.7
Tytus Howard 59.4
Garrett Bradbury 58.0
Rashan Gary 54.1
Kaleb McGary 53.0
Noah Fant 52.0
Devin White 50.6
LJ Collier 48.6
Deandre Baker 48.4
Jerry Tillery 35.5
A MLB Network show that saddened me as a Mets fan.
They discussed what type of career Dwight Gooden coulda had IF he took a different path .As a Mets fan Dwight might #1 under my category of "What Coulda Been " or "Potential Wasted ".
RE: RE: RE: I read the warrant...it's as ugly as it gets
Giants must have more information on this then what’s being reported. If the inside info is bad, you’d expect them to release him tomorrow. Similar to when the Pats cut Hernandez the same day he received murder charge.
Nobody was killed or even injured in this case. As I said earlier, I don't know the CBA rules on the subject, but if they don't release him right away it will be because of the guaranteed money.
This was unforeseen. Questions about his work ethic and character are quite different than committing a potential felony. You can't blame Gettleman for that. I don't think you can point to a correlation between criminal activity and being lazy and flat-out unmotivated. I mean he may have been stupid all along, but who would've thought he'd be THIS stupid?
Agreed though. It'd be a little bit easier to swallow if we didn't trade up for him. A second rounder flaming out...it happens. Not ideal, but not out of the ordinary. Trading up for a guy who will be out of the league after a year? That hurts.
Baker's done here. Judge won't tolerate this crap. I hope someone like Beal or Ballentine can step up because Lord knows we're going to need them.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
So much for having 'no more culture problems'. Besides I wasn't too keen on the selection when it happened anyway, especially given the underlying concerns surrounding him even in college.
Looking back, it is annoying when you see the alternative players we could of got had we stood firm in the second round and not traded away our other picks as well.
This wasn’t spur of the moment. It was well planned. The third masked accomplice showed up AFTER the robbery was already underway. That’s when Baker pointed the gun and told him to shoot someone. It wasn’t gambling, or good old boys or that sort of thing. This was a guy who decided he wanted to make his mark as a bad ass criminal rather than as a football player. Probably why he hadn’t been participating in off season work. As someone said above, part of the reason this organization has been crap for a decade is decision making. You don’t trade up for a guy 29 teams passes on because you think you’re smarter than everyone else. DG blew 3 assets to get him and he was a gamble. Wrong decision.
for drafting first round players.
1)Don't draft someone who didn't have a last great season in college(William Joseph)
2)Don't draft someone who interviews poorly.(Eli Apple)
3)Don't draft someone with work ethic issues.(Deandre Baker)
I'm usually a DG critic but I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt for his drafting skills. But he has some explaining to do when talking about whatever 'culture' he's trying to instill in the team. Because it still sounds like bullshit.
This sucks. The NFC east is loaded with WRs. Do I think last year's secondary is ready to take the next step? I don't know. They looked lost last year. I usually don't count on current year draftees to make an immediate impact as they have to adjust to the speed of the game. All this, with no real off-season. Things seem bleak. Coaches have their work cut out.
Love everyone saying the red flags about his work ethic
very careful about screening for character. The second is that why would someone who makes as much as he does be involved in stealing Rolexes. It's crazy.
Don't forget Ahmad Bradshaw had to serve a few short jail terms
it's hysterical to me. How many times do we have to hear every one say it is a collaborative process? This has come from coaches to management to ownership yet we lay this down at one person's feet. That has been the problem in the past with bad drafts. Look at Reese and Coughlin. You cannot point the finger at one person when it goes wrong because everyone has input.
And for those that have paid attention, Gettleman has gotten players that the coaches have asked for. Look at all the ex-Cardinals and ex-Vikings and ex-Packers that Gettleman has brought in. Yes, he is part of that process and, yes, that should fall on his shoulders but that is not how the team is run. I will put money down that the last coaching staff was banging on the table to draft Baker. I mean if you cannot see then difference in drafts between Shurmur and Judge and the guys they like then I don't know what to tell you.
“The last guy we traded up for we feel is the best cover corner in the draft, the kid from Georgia, DeAndre Baker,” Gettleman said at the time. “We feel like we got three guys that are going to impact this franchise for a long time.”
Wrong.
It turns out there were indeed warning signs about Baker’s maturity that Gettleman and the Giants missed. Draft analyst Tony Pauline of Pro Football Network reported on several prior to the 2019 scouting combine
“Sources were telling me he was not taking combine training seriously,” Pauline told The Post. “He was kind of an entitled type of kid, he expected things to come very easy to him, he didn’t look good in drills. And then if you go back, and you look at his 2019 combine, he was a huge disappointment.
“This year when I was at the Senior Bowl practices, the last day of practice, I was talking to some of the Giant people, they didn’t tell me he was a bad guy or anything, they said he’s dumb as dirt. He struggled taking instruction in coaching, he basically likes to do it his own way.”
Baker was dressed down by teammates during his rookie season for his laissez-faire preparation. Pauline had Baker as his sixth-best corner.
“I would have never taken that guy in the first round. Never,” Pauline said.
Forget about the arrest for a second. Nothing in the scouting process could predict that. However, based on the content from the Senior Bowl, why would Dave still go get him in the first? Stuff like what the NYG people said about Baker should almost disqualify him if I were making decisions from a pure football perspective. That you can certainly lay at Dave’s feet.
They are off the hook for $3.35M in guaranteed salary going forward. And they can sue him for $4.26M of the $5.68M signing bonus he received. I'm not sure if they have to actually get the money back for them to get salary cap relief.
That is where the forfeiture clause comes into play. He is obviously in violation of it whether he is convicted on the original charges or pleads to lesser counts. As you indicated, the future salary guarantees will be voided. And under the forfeiture clause, the team will be able to pursue the repayment of the amortized signing bonus. I can't imagine the Player's Association will defend/represent Baker in any grievance.
You had mentioned in an earlier comment re: cap relief that it is a matter of timing. If they release him prior to the process under the forfeiture clause, then there won't be cap relief. If they retain his rights while pursuing repayment, then there will. The balance equation is whether the cap relief is worth the PR of retaining an accused criminal's rights or whether they rid themselves of Baker and worry about getting money in Mara's pocket at a later date.
you use the same argument against picking Lawrence??
Quote:
Forget about the arrest for a second. Nothing in the scouting process could predict that. However, based on the content from the Senior Bowl, why would Dave still go get him in the first? Stuff like what the NYG people said about Baker should almost disqualify him if I were making decisions from a pure football perspective. That you can certainly lay at Dave’s feet.
Guy was caught using PED's and suspended for his team's most crucial games.
Similar thing happened with the Niners and Reuben Foster
Lots of red flags coming out the combine and so he fell to the bottom of the 1st round where the Niners traded up to get him with the 31st overall pick. Niners wound up releasing him in November of his second season following several arrests and a two game suspension. The following season they went to the Super Bowl.
Baker was one of the more questionable moves by Gettleman from the get-go. I'll admit I did think he was going to be a good player (and I still think he has great talent in the right system-- namely focused on man-to-man coverage), but there were so many questionable pieces to it:
1) We traded a 3rd and a 5th to move up just 7 slots to get him. It felt to me like Gettleman was a little trigger-happy with the trade because he a) had so many picks on his hands, and b) missed out on trading up for Josh Allen earlier in the draft. But we really could have used that 3rd rounder now in hindsight.
2) There were 3 or 4 corners all of similar talent/value available at the time, and we were picking just 7 picks later, so I did not feel that CB wast the position to trade up for at THAT time if we were going to trade up.
3) DG had talked about "cleaning up the culture of the locker-room" and Baker had known character concerns. We'd cut/traded much more talented players with barely any "attitude problems" for the sake of the culture, then turn around and trade up for a guy with character concerns. Just weird.
4) Baker was known for his great skills in man-coverage. Some said he had the talent to become a "shutdown" man corner. So of course the Giants decide to play him in zone the entire year and he sucked. If you really know your DC's system how do you trade up for a corner who who doesn't fit said system. Just surprising that there seemed to be a clear disconnect between DG and Bettcher on that front.
So yeah, I was actually in favor of keeping DG another year, but still-- let's not forget the guy is 8-24 as a GM here, and let's wait until this team has an actual winning season on his watch before we give him high marks for a "great" off-season. He's done a number of things since he got here that are completely inexplicable, and I don't think this is fully a "hindsight is 20/20" situation with Baker. A lot of us saw these holes in DG's logic when he made the move to trade up and draft Baker and a year later much of those criticisms have been proven right.
Giants traded a 4th and a 5th, not a 3rd.
Ultimately Dave picked him and responsibility is with him
you use the same argument against picking Lawrence??
Quote:
Forget about the arrest for a second. Nothing in the scouting process could predict that. However, based on the content from the Senior Bowl, why would Dave still go get him in the first? Stuff like what the NYG people said about Baker should almost disqualify him if I were making decisions from a pure football perspective. That you can certainly lay at Dave’s feet.
Guy was caught using PED's and suspended for his team's most crucial games.
I didn’t like the pick at the time for that very reason. However, since he’s been here, albeit only a year, he’s been a solid player and teammate from all accounts. Hopefully he stays like that.
RE: Ultimately Dave picked him and responsibility is with him
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
As soon as I’m privy to the confidential information that made up the character concerns noted by the scouts, I’ll let you know.
these are all risks. Calculated risks. I'm sure people would kill us for drafting a guy who flames out due to drug use if he tested for it in college. They might make an Aaron Hernandez parallel (like made earlier in the thread). But what if the guy becomes warren Sapp instead? Or Keith Hamilton? Or Dan Marino?
A lot of posters wanted to sign Clowney this offseason. A guy who had huge red flags in college about work ethic. I have my own thoughts on how he'd be looked at as a Giant, yet that doesn't keep people who say he's the best EDGE player out there and we'd be negligent for not signing him.
What we should all agree on is that Baker's whispers in college didn't suggest he'd rob people at gun point. The fact there isn't agreement on that shows how biased many are here and will use whatever incidents they can to blame others, some more than the player himself.
about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Those alone should have been a red flag not to trade up into the first round to take him.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
As soon as I’m privy to the confidential information that made up the character concerns noted by the scouts, I’ll let you know.
Or maybe you should at least have some sort of clue what the concerns were before posting 5-6 times that Baker had significant red flags that were "well known". Now, I guess they aren't so well known. In fact confidential?
I liked player. He is very talented and I think had a chance to be successful in the system Judge wanted to employ this year. Based on how he played over the last quarter of 2019, I had high hopes for him in 2020. There aren’t many players on this roster that kind of excite me, but Baker in year 2 was one of them. This whole situation sucks for everyone: the fans who are tired of one embarrassment after another, the team that now has another hole to fill likely in the next offseason, and Baker, who might go serve some time and could have his career ended.
It was quite a few times from different media people that Bettcher was very high on him. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact names but it was definitely reported.
but I think Betcher is the one who was pounding the table for him.
Gettleman is responsible for drafting him, true. So what?
Does that mean DG failed to look in his crystal ball to see that Baker would be a criminal(alleged)?
I am just stating that Betcher is the one who was very high on him and that yes Dave is responsible for the Baker pick and all picks. That is the way it works.
Yeah I was just thinking of that. At this point nothing they can do about Baker. But cannot let this type of thing happen again.
Hopefully with all the college coaching connections the new staff has, they’ll be more able to pick up on these types of head cases than scouts would. At least he’ll be out of the locker room and won’t be taking reps from someone more deserving.
since this thread seems 100% pro cutting Baker, let me play devils advocate.
If the charges against Baker are ultimately dropped or he pleads to a reduced charge(s) and doesn't go to jail, is he still welcome on this team?
I think the only scenario where he is welcomed back is if the charges get dropped due to a case of mistaken identity. Since that’s highly unlikely, he’ll never be back.
It was quite a few times from different media people that Bettcher was very high on him. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact names but it was definitely reported.
An article with his post draft comments. Sounds like standard coach talk nothing stands out to me Link - ( New Window )
It was quite a few times from different media people that Bettcher was very high on him. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact names but it was definitely reported.
While nothing is definitive, the speculation is easily made. They came out immediately and said he was the best cover guy in the draft. That fit Bettcher's style of defense. Now, before people go crazy and say why did he play so much zone the answer is easy. You have to. You have to mix it up. Every defense plays both zone and man. Also, you don't make defensive calls based on just one person. We had injuries all over the place last year and if you don't have the horses to man up then it is pick your poison.
The second glaring thing to me is that the coaching staff NEVER benched him. No matter how many blown assignments, or lackadaisical play, or not taking to coaching reports we saw, etc. he was always on the field and it was pissing off teammates hence them calling him out. That's extremely frustrating on players and the team as a whole. So what was the reason for not benching him? It looks to me that the staff wanted him and were willing to let him work through those issues.
This doesn't exonerate Gettleman from the responsibility of the pick. What I am saying is that more goes into this than one person handing in a card. And NOBODY saw this happening. Imo, looking at individual draft picks will suit anybody's argument. You have to look at the whole. And as a whole since Gettleman has been here has been pretty damn good to me. If anybody was expecting him to bat 1.000 then you'll have a 100% of disappointment with any GM.
but I think Betcher is the one who was pounding the table for him.
Gettleman is responsible for drafting him, true. So what?
Does that mean DG failed to look in his crystal ball to see that Baker would be a criminal(alleged)?
I am just stating that Betcher is the one who was very high on him and that yes Dave is responsible for the Baker pick and all picks. That is the way it works.
we moved up but we still had multiple 4th and 5th round picks after that trade was completed, that we used on Love and Connelly. It’s not like the Giants gave up a lot to move up to get Baker. They had a shitload of picks and used a few of them to move up. It happens.
RE: Can we let the judicial process take its course before we cut him
Dave has overall done a decent job under very tough circumstances. The results may not be as quick as we all like but it is clear to me at least that he recognizes what wins in this league and what the Giants have lacked.
I honestly don't get the reasoning for defending DG on this...
If Reese had made bold claims about cleaning up the culture in the locker room, and then had TRADED UP for a kid that had some character flags (even if not for criminal behavior), and then that kid proceeded to fall asleep in team meetings as a rookie, go AWOL from the team's virtual sessions in his first full offseason, and then commit armed robbery less than 13 months after he was drafted, would anyone be even trying to extend the benefit of the doubt?
IMO, it doesn't matter where you fall on the DG-criticism/defense spectrum - this is a bad sequence of events for the Giants that DG has a hand in. I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture.
It's ok to acknowledge that DG fucked up on this one. I'm sure he'd like to have it back even if no one could reasonably expect him to have seen this coming.
Football is the last thing Baker has to worry about.
This guy at this point is pulling a disappearing act. This is going to be a reality movie in the making. He's literally has a warrant out for his arrest and hasn't turned himself in.
That means that authorities are looking for him.
This is like an episode of Bad Boys.
For his family sake, let's hope he doesn't do something even more stupid then this.
It's just a formality now. His NFL career is over. Unless the entire thing was manufactured in spite, which is unlikely as he is "on the run" , he's going to be in jail and his life is basically thrown away.
You'll see him in your nightmares
You'll see him in your dreams
He'll appear out of nowhere but
He ain't what he seems...
You're one microscopic cog
In his catastrophic plan
Designed and directed by his... Reid Right Hand - ( New Window )
since this thread seems 100% pro cutting Baker, let me play devils advocate.
If the charges against Baker are ultimately dropped or he pleads to a reduced charge(s) and doesn't go to jail, is he still welcome on this team?
I'm not for cutting him at all. The story is too insane to be legit. It implies that Baker and Dunbar planned a robbery in broad daylight that would 100% get them arrested and their NFL contracts voided.
The story is illogical, so I'll wait on throwing Baker to the wolves.
It seems he may have had some work ethic issues given he was falling asleep in meetings last year and sometimes gave half-assed effort on the field. Given his poor start last year, you'd think he would have been at all optional team meetings this year but he wasn't. This was alluded to in some of the pre-draft stuff including Walter Football.
Having a poor work ethic doesn't tell you anything about someone potentially being a pocket gangster. They are unrelated. But there is some responsibility here for drafting a guy whose start to his NFL career didn't seem to be on a good trajectory.
This is a results oriented business, and it looks like the judgment here is that Baker was a bad pick. How predictable that was fans can argue. But it will still almost certainly go down in the books as a bad pick.
I agree that you can't predict this sort of crazy shit happening. That's not on DG.
But his attitude at camp which was on video? That stuff did not build confidence that he understood what success looked like or was very mature. I think that is on DG.
In any case, the roster's level of talent, we'll see how it shakes out. But another poor season rests on DG's shoulders, as this is "his" guy flaming out. If they have another below .500 season, I want him gone.
How do you screen someone for this in the scouting process?
Should Dave have asked in the interview:
“So DeAndre, let’s say you’re at a party back home in the spring before year 2 with another NFL player. You just so happen to be carrying an automatic weapon. You get upset at losing some significant money in a card game and the shit is about to hit the fan. How do you react?“
As the GM you are exactly what your record says you are.
Doesn't matter what you inherited, doesn't matter that one of the owners meddles in picking players. It's just wins and loses.
If Baker turned out to be a HOF Gettleman would have gotten all the credit and took a victory lap. The fact that he turned out to be a guy who had attitude problems and a criminal is 100% on his record.
The fact that the Giants whiffed so badly on another 1st round pick, one they traded and used 3 picks for, is also on the Mara brothers because after Flowers, Beckham and Apple there's a serious problem in how the Giants vet players and obviously it hasn't been fixed.
RE: I honestly don't get the reasoning for defending DG on this...
If Reese had made bold claims about cleaning up the culture in the locker room, and then had TRADED UP for a kid that had some character flags (even if not for criminal behavior), and then that kid proceeded to fall asleep in team meetings as a rookie, go AWOL from the team's virtual sessions in his first full offseason, and then commit armed robbery less than 13 months after he was drafted, would anyone be even trying to extend the benefit of the doubt?
IMO, it doesn't matter where you fall on the DG-criticism/defense spectrum - this is a bad sequence of events for the Giants that DG has a hand in. I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture.
It's ok to acknowledge that DG fucked up on this one. I'm sure he'd like to have it back even if no one could reasonably expect him to have seen this coming.
If you are talking to me don't confuse me defending Gettleman with defending the pick. My point was made above that if you look at any one pick from any GM you can fit whatever argument you want. What I am saying is that overall Gettleman has done a good job. I wasn't crazy with the selection of Baker at all. However, as a coach wouldn't you love working with Gettleman? I would. He has made it a point to get the coaches the players that fit what they want to do. The drawback of that is when things don't go right then who gets the blame?. With Reese it was Coughlin. TC took the blame first. Then after that didn't work it was Reese. This is kind of like Gilbride's offense. When it works it is amazing (collaboration) but when it doesn't it looks like a dumpster fire.
I think the marriage of Gettleman and Judge is what will make this team. I like how Judge hinted that there are disagreements and we saw the players that were brought in this year in the draft. High character, hard working players. I do think Gettleman has an eye for talent and if you blend those two together I think well see some very positive, tangible results.
Kirby just made a statement on how much he believed in Baker, and that is his college coach. You think says that just because. The blame goes to Baker, and him alone.
A gifted individual from a sports perspective that made it to the NFL & was a 1st round pick. Let's stop with the BS of who is to blame. DG is not the reason this happened and nor is anyone else but Baker. As I've tried to explain to my children who have children of there own...you can't be watching over them 24/7 365...they will make mistakes and hopefully small ones but as a parent you have to make sure they know what's right or wrong....then it's their choice. No one owns this but Baker. That's life. Let's move on and hopefully this gives the guy from UCLA a shot at CB....I like him!!
And was lucky not to be killed in his accident. Really dumb move by the player. Plus there's all the allegations against him about the women. Does that make him a bad pick that the GM should be criticized for, or does his HOF type career counter-balance stupidity and alleged lawlessness?
Was it Accorsi's fault that JPP blew up his hand? Did their scouting know he was that much of a dumb-ass?
Raise your hand if you thought OJ Simpson's life would have turned out the way it has. Or if you thought a guy like Mike Vick who had a 100M Nike contract would get caught betting on dog fights for $1000.
PLAYERS DO REALLY DUMB SHIT ALL THE TIME. Sometimes there are blatant red flags during the scouting process (Lawrence Phillips). Sometimes there aren't. Sometimes the red flags are wrong (Randy Moss). Teams supposedly do their homework on all the incidents. But they can still get it wrong.
IF the Giants knew he was dumb and drafted him anyway, that's on them. But they could NOT have known Baker would do THIS.
This act and the consequences for it is 100% on Baker. Sadly, the Giants just end up paying for it.
I think with Judge on board, the chances of drafting "dumb players" will decrease. But it still won't be perfect.
"defense" of Gettleman is only happening because many posters first inclination was to blame him
When these kinds of incidents are reported, do the GM's usually take the brunt of the shit? Do the teams even? Do the Pats take crap from having Hernandez on their roster? Were the teams who drafted or signed Josh Gordon said to make bad moves or did most realize Gordon was the problem? Did the Panthers come under fire for drafting Rae Carruth? Did the Chiefs come under fire for having a guy who shoots himself outside their facilities?
Baker is accused of a ridiculous event and many's first reaction was "Gettleman fucked up again".
RE: RE: Wait, people are trying to blame Gettleman?!
No, don’t go mixing people words. Most of this thread is blaming our GM for taking a player that would commit a crime and claiming he wasn’t properly vetted because there were so many red flags, apparently.
Well they red flags seem to be the typical red flags that a lot of players have coming out - how many of those players go down the path amid armed robbery?
Be mad at the player, he’s the fucking idiot. Apply this logic to your own life - if you fuck up is it ok to blame your parents or should you take responsibility for your actions?
for passing on Tunsil? Well, that was a glowing red flag and that turned out ok. Plenty of red flag players turn out ok. Even my example from earlier turned out ok - Joe Mixon.
What happened in this instance certainly sucks, but how do you prepare or find out about a player that will commit a crime of armed robbery. This probably happens to 1 in 5000 players. This is usually not something you have to worry about once a guy is drafted. These guys make millions of dollars. It’s usually a domestic violence crime if anything. It’s a shame and unfortunate. Wasn’t Ray Lewis involved in some crap early in his career? These guys don’t come from stable backgrounds. I think the NYG have done a decent job of staying clear of checkered players. In my opinion it’s somewhat impossible to prepare or ask a 20-22 yr old player about an armed robbery.
I didn't read this whole thread, but are posters blaming DG not just for a wasted pick (which is a valid criticism), but that he should have known Baker would allegedly commit a crime (which is a ludicrous criticism)?
GMs get lauded when they pick guys who become all-pros, and they get criticized when they pick guys that become non-factors. That's the job description.
No, don’t go mixing people words. Most of this thread is blaming our GM for taking a player that would commit a crime and claiming he wasn’t properly vetted because there were so many red flags, apparently.
Well they red flags seem to be the typical red flags that a lot of players have coming out - how many of those players go down the path amid armed robbery?
Be mad at the player, he’s the fucking idiot. Apply this logic to your own life - if you fuck up is it ok to blame your parents or should you take responsibility for your actions?
A better example would be blaming a hiring manager for bringing in a total fuck up. And yes I would do that in the real world.
At the end of the day this was a terrible pick by Gettleman and he’s got it own it.
I mean even if he didn’t commit robbery, he still missing team zoom meetings. And that is entirely predictable by his scouting report
most definitely saying that we picked Baker despite "well-known" red flags that indicated this behavior was not unexpected.
And even though the red flags weren't very prominent and had nothing to do with illegal behavior, they are being exaggerated to indicate that we had dossiers on his transgressions and picked him anyways.
most definitely saying that we picked Baker despite "well-known" red flags that indicated this behavior was not unexpected.
And even though the red flags weren't very prominent and had nothing to do with illegal behavior, they are being exaggerated to indicate that we had dossiers on his transgressions and picked him anyways.
Ok focus on random anonymous posters choice of words if you want
I’ll focus on the job our front office is doing. And in this specific cane, he did a terrible job.
Jesus what fool. I was hopeful about him with new coaches and scheme
ultimately he picked him and it didn't work out but some of the logic on display here is mind boggling.
Any GM that picks any player that didn't work out they need to own. You realize that, don't you?
Your analogy sucks, by the way. If Baker was this massive fuck up we'd have known about it by now. Instead the scouting reports and all anyone can find is the generic "red flag" label with no substance. Taking a chance on a guy that needs a little work isn't a bad decision in most cases. If he had some horrible background making him a massive fuck up we all would have known about it by now.
Be mad/disappointed/whatever but making stuff up is a bad look.
because for what we know, the red flags were relatively minor.
Having said that unless there's something external which is happened, you don't tend to go from being under-motivated and lazy to 4 counts of armed robbery without some pretty sketchy behavior inbetween. Given the SEC scout was fired, and the HC's connections to that conference then there might just have been a problem with that scout and his info and connections.
It'll be interesting to see what else comes out about Bakers prior behavior, because you know the hacks will be looking to dig up his past now. It'll also be interesting to see if what other teams thought about Baker and his red flags comes out.
There were reports about his character before the draft
Sy knew them and Ledyard knew them. Character And Work Ethic. So they can find this out but DG w all of his resources can’t?
These concerns were validated some by his bad combine that he clearly wasn’t prepared for. Last year during the season he didn’t know the plays. He wasn’t working hard. This offseason he wasn’t even attending the virtual off-season process. He wasn’t going to get better even if he didn’t end up in jail. This guy is a lazy turd.
Every red flag about this guy has come true. He is not the type of individual you draft in the 1st round. Remember he had a shit combine. You people defending DG are pathetic. Like the guy can do no wrong. He fucking sucks at his job and already should have been fired.
An earlier poster listed the CBs taken after baker. That’s a crap post. It creates a false narrative that they had to take a CB with that pick. There were plenty of good players at other positions picked after Baker.
This GM wasted an enormous amount of resources on this shit secondary which is still probably shit.
Another poster said well Betcher pounded the table for him. So what. Betcher isn’t shit. He shouldn’t have sway over a first round pick especially one we had to trade up for. DG is the GM. He is not absolved I’d blame because Betcher wanted someone.
This is just another example of how shit this organization is. Hopefully Joe Judge can come in clean house and turn things around. But recent history shows you this organization has zero clue as to what they are doing. There is a reason they have become the laughing stock of the league.
Sidebar serious Fuck this POS Baker. I hope he rots in jail for what he did. No excuse for this.
And another one for DG. Wasn’t his only redeeming quality that he drafts well? And do people still think he drafts well now?
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
As soon as I’m privy to the confidential information that made up the character concerns noted by the scouts, I’ll let you know.
So, by your own admission, you know nothing, so everything you are saying is pure speculation.
It's unfair to think Gettleman should have predicted Baker would rob a poker game.
It's not unfair to put some blame on general management when a difficult to coach and ambivalent player showed those same characteristics before being drafted.
If Dexter Lawrence beats up his mailman, not something Gettleman could have predicted.
If he gets popped for PEDs, there we go.
When a GM raises the mission accomplished banner on character changes, then drafts and signs guys with red flags, he's going to get flack.
he was picked 30, not 3rd. If we took him in the second (which is essentially what he was) you'd just say "you can't waste a second round pick on a player like this". You'd move the goal posts, we all know it.
It sucks and maybe it makes us never take a chance on any other player that isn't squeaky clean - but who knows if that's the correct move either.
Sometimes you have to lick your wounds, learn a little and move on. A lot of you guys can't do that even for something as simple as a discussion.
ultimately he picked him and it didn't work out but some of the logic on display here is mind boggling.
Any GM that picks any player that didn't work out they need to own. You realize that, don't you?
Your analogy sucks, by the way. If Baker was this massive fuck up we'd have known about it by now. Instead the scouting reports and all anyone can find is the generic "red flag" label with no substance. Taking a chance on a guy that needs a little work isn't a bad decision in most cases. If he had some horrible background making him a massive fuck up we all would have known about it by now.
Be mad/disappointed/whatever but making stuff up is a bad look.
What am I making up?
We can argue what was known and when all day but at the end of the day I think I we agree that is was a terrible pick and that is on DG
But at the end of the day we
RE: How do you screen someone for this in the scouting process?
Should Dave have asked in the interview:
“So DeAndre, let’s say you’re at a party back home in the spring before year 2 with another NFL player. You just so happen to be carrying an automatic weapon. You get upset at losing some significant money in a card game and the shit is about to hit the fan. How do you react?“
If I'm a GM, then I first want to get a sense from a prospect that he gets the leap required to go from college ball to the NFL. That he gets that regardless of how good he has been at college, he's got to be a student of the game at the next level.
So, word on DeAndre Baker was that he wasn't taking prepping for the Combine seriously, the he had a sense of entitlement (not uncommon), that he's not bright, that he wants to just play his own way. Oh, and post-draft: he falls asleep in team meetings.
The writing was on the wall for Baker with Joe Judge's appointment and his stated mantra that he wants versatility. This just cements his exit.
I'm pissed that we traded up, that we gave up additional picks for this prick.
It was weird when certain posters absolved Coughlin of any blame,
"he was a massive fuck up" is 100% made up by you. You are taking "red flag" and running with it which is disingenuous at best. If this was the case then every single player that has some concerns should get the same label, no? And then because of that they shouldn't be drafted high (or at all), right? The more you blame the organization and the less you blame the player makes you less and less credible.
But hey, if it makes you feel better than keep saying it, I just won't bother having the conversation with you anymore.
Why don't I go out and commit a crime and blame Serby or someone on this board for that matter? It's this society we live in now where we teach kids it's someone else fault. Grow up, be a man, and everyone take responsibility for their actions. Plain and simple.
he was picked 30, not 3rd. If we took him in the second (which is essentially what he was) you'd just say "you can't waste a second round pick on a player like this". You'd move the goal posts, we all know it.
It sucks and maybe it makes us never take a chance on any other player that isn't squeaky clean - but who knows if that's the correct move either.
Sometimes you have to lick your wounds, learn a little and move on. A lot of you guys can't do that even for something as simple as a discussion.
that's correct you don't waste a premium pick on someone with multiple red flags.
you even say in your post learn a little. you mean like learn not to use premium picks on players with multiple red flags?
because they spent draft capital to move up to get him and he was poor last year and seems not committed to improving.
But every gm has bad picks.
His being a felon is 100 pct not on the Giants and on him. This does pretty much cement his bad pick status which he may have been able to turn around. quite frankly it seemed unlikely given what his tendencies around the mental aspect of the game are.
Gettleman seems to have gotten two out of three picks right in first round last year, and if barkley and thomas stay and are as expected that’s four out of five first rounders which is a good batting average.
if the Giants aren’t turned around by 2021 in a significant way it will fall
on DG. Don’t think every single pick or decision has to be micro analyzed. he’s got a coach and some young foundational pieces let’s see where the giants are over the next 32 games.
he was picked 30, not 3rd. If we took him in the second (which is essentially what he was) you'd just say "you can't waste a second round pick on a player like this". You'd move the goal posts, we all know it.
It sucks and maybe it makes us never take a chance on any other player that isn't squeaky clean - but who knows if that's the correct move either.
Sometimes you have to lick your wounds, learn a little and move on. A lot of you guys can't do that even for something as simple as a discussion.
that's correct you don't waste a premium pick on someone with multiple red flags.
you even say in your post learn a little. you mean like learn not to use premium picks on players with multiple red flags?
Did he have a lot of red flags up to that point in time? Being serious...
I would say there's a big difference between driving past a traffic cop and armed robbery with an automatic weapon. Lauletta might have been a goof, but, come on.
RE: RE: I honestly don't get the reasoning for defending DG on this...
If Reese had made bold claims about cleaning up the culture in the locker room, and then had TRADED UP for a kid that had some character flags (even if not for criminal behavior), and then that kid proceeded to fall asleep in team meetings as a rookie, go AWOL from the team's virtual sessions in his first full offseason, and then commit armed robbery less than 13 months after he was drafted, would anyone be even trying to extend the benefit of the doubt?
IMO, it doesn't matter where you fall on the DG-criticism/defense spectrum - this is a bad sequence of events for the Giants that DG has a hand in. I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture.
It's ok to acknowledge that DG fucked up on this one. I'm sure he'd like to have it back even if no one could reasonably expect him to have seen this coming.
If you are talking to me don't confuse me defending Gettleman with defending the pick. My point was made above that if you look at any one pick from any GM you can fit whatever argument you want. What I am saying is that overall Gettleman has done a good job. I wasn't crazy with the selection of Baker at all. However, as a coach wouldn't you love working with Gettleman? I would. He has made it a point to get the coaches the players that fit what they want to do. The drawback of that is when things don't go right then who gets the blame?. With Reese it was Coughlin. TC took the blame first. Then after that didn't work it was Reese. This is kind of like Gilbride's offense. When it works it is amazing (collaboration) but when it doesn't it looks like a dumpster fire.
I think the marriage of Gettleman and Judge is what will make this team. I like how Judge hinted that there are disagreements and we saw the players that were brought in this year in the draft. High character, hard working players. I do think Gettleman has an eye for talent and if you blend those two together I think well see some very positive, tangible results.
Not you, no. Not anyone in particular for that matter. Just the idea that there are fans who are reluctant to even consider that DG screwed up on this one, even if he couldn't have predicted that Baker would become a felon.
My point was that if this was a Reese pick, there would be no one trying to defend the GM. Shit, there were people putting Chad Jones on Reese's ledger as a busted pick, and he got into a fucking car accident that prematurely ended his career. But some are eager to absolve DG for this one. I find it peculiar.
RE: RE: Had a first round grade in the 10 to 20 range?
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
Baker and LT. Great comparison. And LT’s problems began years after he got here.
Jeff, come on. Do you really think my pt was Baker is L. T.!
I thought It was clear clear, my opinion is character issues don’t always equate to , “stay away.” But I m pretty certain you knew that when you responded to my post.
If I m wrong, and my pt was unclear, my apologies.
It’s one thing for him to have work ethic and attitude issues if he
had played well. But he sucked for 75% of the year. Just based on performance he wasn’t worthy of the pick. Now this. Maybe he’d have improved with experience and under a new system, who knows, he sure as hell wasn’t trajecting that way missing virtual meetings this offseason. The point is, his talent didn’t justify the question marks, which were apparent before the draft. Since then the only new thing to the equation was almost a whole season of bad play.
He was a bad pick, plain and simple. I am glad people feel we can afford to miss on picks. Let the DG bashers have their say, what’s there to defend?
Ohh its his fault for picking him (who here is saying it isn't?), but you are belligerent with hatred and it shows. Nothing is ever anyone elses fault when it comes to the Giants, can't possibly be any of the other adults in the organization. What does that say about you?
Same shit all the time with you. And GoTerps? Yeah, he'd say we should have traded back for twelve 5th rounders. That sure would be a fun read.
Even if Baker gets cut, DG still hit solidly on 2 of the 3
1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
Ohh its his fault for picking him (who here is saying it isn't?), but you are belligerent with hatred and it shows. Nothing is ever anyone elses fault when it comes to the Giants, can't possibly be any of the other adults in the organization. What does that say about you?
Same shit all the time with you. And GoTerps? Yeah, he'd say we should have traded back for twelve 5th rounders. That sure would be a fun read.
I'm sick and tired of this franchise sucking ass (queue the posters who say well then root for a different team, when i just want this team to get better). And then keeping the fuckups in charge and not firing them when they should. So yea I'm annoyed.
RE: The blaming of Gettlemen is getting ridiculous!!!
Here's another stupid article blaming Gettlemen for Baker's dumb decisions https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/deandre-baker-charges-a-big-mess-for-giants-dave-gettleman/
Why don't I go out and commit a crime and blame Serby or someone on this board for that matter? It's this society we live in now where we teach kids it's someone else fault. Grow up, be a man, and everyone take responsibility for their actions. Plain and simple.
I’m pretty sure Baker is going to have to service his own jail sentence. No one is giving him a pass.
Two things can be true at once. Baker is responsible for his action of commuting a crime. Gettleman is responsible for his action of drafting baker.
I'm sick and tired of this franchise sucking ass (queue the posters who say well then root for a different team, when i just want this team to get better). And then keeping the fuckups in charge and not firing them when they should. So yea I'm annoyed.
We are tired of your moronic rants. So, yes, go root for another team. Better for you and better for most of us.
I believe I asked this on another thread recently after one of your numerous tirades - "Do you or have you ever posted anything that was not negative?"
important and the teams spend so much time on them. There is a faction that thinks its all about the talent, and don't like cutting/passing on a player who is talented but an idiot. Bad characters so stupid crap like this, create locker room, issues, and don't always give it all on the field.
2nd, this is not on DG its on Baker. Frankly I like his first round picks so far (in fact most of his picks). Barkley, Jones, Dex all seem like great players. Thomas certainly has potential and I like the pick. So he missed on, 4 out of 5 #1's (if Thomas works out) is way above average.
RE: Even if Baker gets cut, DG still hit solidly on 2 of the 3
1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
And he batted 1.000 on the two 1st rounders he walked into the draft with last year.
His error was trading up for Baker, who may have been well on his way to bust status before Baker sealed his own fate anyway.
DG doesn't have to be perfect to be a good GM. This incident alone doesn't make him a bad GM (but it does continue to add up over time if the overall results don't improve). But this one absolutely goes in the L column for DG. I don't see how there's any other way to view it, even if you believe that DG is a very good GM.
1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
And when it comes to character, Darnay Holmes is as good as it gets. I can't recall ever being more impressed by a draft pick's mentality. He will prove to be a steal. I almost guarantee it!
but I'm wondering if stock-piling depth in the secondary this draft was in preparation for the chance that he wouldn't improve or clean up the things that he's been lacking. Also wondering (and we will never know) what Judge thought of him prior to this.
RE: not that I think they saw this coming (a crime)
but I'm wondering if stock-piling depth in the secondary this draft was in preparation for the chance that he wouldn't improve or clean up the things that he's been lacking. Also wondering (and we will never know) what Judge thought of him prior to this.
I had the same thoughts.
The firing of the scout and drafting heavily at the position are curious.
RE: RE: Even if Baker gets cut, DG still hit solidly on 2 of the 3
1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
And when it comes to character, Darnay Holmes is as good as it gets. I can't recall ever being more impressed by a draft pick's mentality. He will prove to be a steal. I almost guarantee it!
.
He traded back into the first round to draft Baker,
Gettleman has egg on his face, and he can't afford that.
Mara told him he wants 'a higher batting average'.
There should have been some red flags about the kid's character, they may as well cut Baker now!
it is little wonder why Baker struggled last season. I gave Bettcher a fair share of criticism for not simplifying his coverage schemes with so many young DB's seeing ample playing time, but I don't think he could have simplified them enough for Baker.
The idea that 2 professional athletes thought they could stroll into a party and steal money and possessions at gunpoint is just too ridiculous to comprehend. We are better off without him.
1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
It's never "pretty good" when you miss on a 1st round pick. It's even worse when your team is starved for talent and you traded up for that particular pick.
If it’s true that he’s not participated in any offseason team events, was falling asleep in meetings previously and has lackluster work ethic. Maybe he would have hung around for 2020 before being traded or released anyway. Total bust
I thought last year that Baker was stupid because it appeared that he never understood what coverage he should be in. But...I didn't think he was this stupid! Yikes!!
trying to be smarter than 29 other teams. When a guy you had rated 10-15 in the draft falls to 30 you HAVE to stop and ask WHY?? You do NOT use 3 draft picks to go get this guy. That's a gamble not worth taking. If he fell to them at 38 in the 2nd rd- fine! Players don't work out for many reasons. There was a good chance, based on his poor work habits, he wasn't going to be a Judge guy and would get cut this year.
What he did, this kind of crime IS TOTALLY ON BAKER- NOT GETTLEMAN. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. But this organization has made too many bad decisions over the last 10 years. Its largely why they are a doormat. Over the last 6 years they have blown 3 top picks on Flowers, Apple and Baker. All, who with closer inspection, shouldn't have been drafted where they were. And that's with 2 GMs. So the problem is with scouting and the VP of Player Personell who is unfortunately an owner.
trying to be smarter than 29 other teams. When a guy you had rated 10-15 in the draft falls to 30 you HAVE to stop and ask WHY?? You do NOT use 3 draft picks to go get this guy. That's a gamble not worth taking. If he fell to them at 38 in the 2nd rd- fine! Players don't work out for many reasons. There was a good chance, based on his poor work habits, he wasn't going to be a Judge guy and would get cut this year.
What he did, this kind of crime IS TOTALLY ON BAKER- NOT GETTLEMAN. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. But this organization has made too many bad decisions over the last 10 years. Its largely why they are a doormat. Over the last 6 years they have blown 3 top picks on Flowers, Apple and Baker. All, who with closer inspection, shouldn't have been drafted where they were. And that's with 2 GMs. So the problem is with scouting and the VP of Player Personell who is unfortunately an owner.
Your words:
"Its largely why they (the Giants) are a doormat."
My words:
Aren't you being unfair to the doormats of the world?
...then had TRADED UP for a kid that had some character flags (even if not for criminal behavior), and then that kid proceeded to fall asleep in team meetings as a rookie, go AWOL from the team's virtual sessions in his first full offseason, and then commit armed robbery less than 13 months after he was drafted, would anyone be even trying to extend the benefit of the doubt?
...I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture....
were more than enough concerns about Baker not to draft him at #37, let alone trade up for him. Those concerns could not have predicted this, but they were real.
There were similar concerns about Lauletta, which also manifested themselves again after he was drafted.
The difference is that Baker could play. Lauletta had almost no chance of replacing Eli. The Giants should have just kept Webb for another year. We were screwed anyway if Eli got hurt.
Truer word haven't been spoken in a while. There is always an excuse for this organization, which has been left in the clear dust by the haves in this league. Regardless of Baker, this organization has done a terrible job or replenishing talent from the mid-late 2000s teams. And the fact that there are posters whose sole existence on this site is to defend the front office, more specifically the GM, without adding any original thought or position on the state of the team is laughable.
I mean, 7-9, 6-10, 6-10, 11-6, 3-13, 5-11, 4-12. Where is the defense in that?
Made it seem like a warrant was issued but he wasn’t found yet. Unless I’m reading into it and/or watch too many crime documentaries
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
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46m
ICYMI, news story on the arrest warrant issued for DeAndre Baker. The Miramar PD was in touch with the lawyers of one of the suspects about a surrender as of last night (spokesperson wouldn't say if it was Baker of Quinton Dunbar):
But everyone should blame him for the ridiculously bad performance we saw out of Baker during the season.. towards he end of season he improved.. but let's not intend he played well.. he sucked and knowing his work ethics, he probably would've sucked all his life..
I thought he was going to be good. Early returns said I was very wrong. And now this. I am not a Gettleman hater but he definitely deserves blame for this swing and miss. It’s not his fault it turns out the guy is a dirt bag but the buck stops with him
and although he may have had a few character red flags, the GM was willing to accept that risk and perhaps think he might mature. I don’t blame the GM at all for this. Why would anyone? It’s just ridiculous. Anyway, this whole situation is something that you’d see in the movies! It’s crazy, or better yet, he’s crazy. I just can’t believe this guy. He had a tremendous opportunity in life and just blew it! How stupid can one person be, well there’s a lot of stupid out there, but this one takes the cake IMO.
Thankfully the Giants have the CB depth to overcome this. This year was more or less a developmental year anyway. New staff, new schemes, new HC, young inexperienced players, etc. Let Beal, Ballentine, Holmes, Askew-Henry and Love duke it out to see who is the best guy opposite Bradberry. Whomever comes out on top, let them develop this year, like the rest of the team.
There were similar concerns about Lauletta, which also manifested themselves again after he was drafted.
Serious question - what were the concerns about Lauletta? I honestly don't remember one thing pre-draft or even pre-traffic incident that would have suggested anything wrong with him.
and in my mind Baker is done, not only with the Giants, but likely the NFL as he's going to jail. He's a dipshit and now he's going to dal with the consequences. So screw him.
Did we get any answer to what this means for the cap and CBA assuming the player's union and owners agreed that if someone goes to jail for a crime, does the cap money free up or is it a dead cap hit?
is such a lazy, tired, cliched review of a draft pick. That suggests no one should have drafted him or no one would have, which can't possibly be true, can it?
Why did we take Dexter Lawrence, didn't 16 teams pass on him?
We traded up for 1st round talent and it didn't work out. This need to make up extra narrative is baffling.
now we are fabricating character concerns about Lauletta too??
Quote:
There
AcidTest : 10:08 am : link : reply
were more than enough concerns about Baker not to draft him at #37, let alone trade up for him. Those concerns could not have predicted this, but they were real.
There were similar concerns about Lauletta, which also manifested themselves again after he was drafted.
There were no such concerns. As a matter of fact, an Eagles article after he was signed said the traffic situation was "out of character" and there was nothing in his past to suggest such behavior.
A person might have 'character concerns', but in God's name saw this coming? I'm not a big DG fan either, but taking him to the woodshed for this moron going full on criminal is unfair.
If an NFL player does something this dumb,I think a lot of it falls on him.As much as some people wish to blame someone,I don't think there's many NFL front offices who would react like that.
RE: Even if Baker gets cut, DG still hit solidly on 2 of the 3
1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
This is bad analysis because it overlooks the fact that he gave up a pick to move up a few spots for Baker. The smarter analyses I've read say the key to the draft is amassing picks because it's such a crapshoot. If you're going to give up assets to move up, you better be right. I won't hold this foolishness against DG, but based on Baker's first year, he was wrong.
If convicted, probably 10 years. A good lawyer might be able to get it down to 5 as he’s had no prior convictions or issues. Non-the-less, his NFL career is over.
This sucks, I was indifferent to Baker when we drafted him
although I would have preferred Jamaar Taylor was the target with those resources.
What I will say is we have no idea what Judge and his staff thought of this kid's film last year, what they thought after they presumably met him at some point over the winter, or what their plans for him were in the future.
All we know is they brought in a #1 corner for good money in Free Agency and continued to cluster draft the position, as well as the secondary overall in last month's draft.
Bradberry
Holmes
Beal
Ballentine
Williamson
And now Love who has more flexibility to play where needed with the arrival of McKinney.
It's possible Baker was already not highly thought of by the new staff and was more or less turning into a sunk cost, as many 1st round picks turn out to be in this league. It wouldn't be the first time. See Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple.
For the record, this goes in the column as a bad pick for Gettleman. I'm not big on these "gotcha" moments that have become so popular though. And to anyone who doesn't think Judge is already on more solid footing than Gettleman is, I think you're mistaken. DG is likely riding out some time before he steps aside for Judge/Abrams to completely take over.
“I think some people are still missing it,” Gettleman told Steve Politi, via NJ.com. "Football is the ultimate team game. If all 11 guys aren’t doing the right thing, you’re not going to be successful.
“There’s more to it than just collecting talent. There is a cultural thing to it that’s critical. I have not been on a team that’s gone to a Super Bowl that’s had a culture problem.”
Politi then asked Gettleman if he felt like the Giants had a culture problem.
“Not anymore,” Gettleman responded with a smile.
Somebody completely f'd up their evaluations - simple as that
the logic of moving up for who you believe to be the top CB in the draft is sound.
I honestly never liked the Baker pick, but I also would have been against drafting players like Marcus Peters, Aqib Talib, and Jackrabbit too when they came out. Sometimes problem children work out and if it had in this case it would have been a good move.
But it didn't work out because they were wrong - both with his disappointing on the field performance last year and his even more disappointing off the field performance.
The biggest takeaway from all of this for me is how comforting it is to have a HC who saw the value in bringing in coaches from the CFB ranks, particularly the SEC, which added an extra layer of intel on who we selected in this past year's draft (especially with the half of the draft class whom our coaches had been on staff with).
ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
Giants have been in contact with CB DeAndre Baker, but Baker remains at large; did the Giants not tell Baker to turn himself in?
links to their website with a short story saying maybe the team did tell him or did not tell him or he's ignoring their advice.
Its clickbait but a headline like that should warrant a response from the team AND the NFL to Florio. link. - ( New Window )
A person might have 'character concerns', but in God's name saw this coming? I'm not a big DG fan either, but taking him to the woodshed for this moron going full on criminal is unfair.
yes serious. why do you think they talk to former coaches, and do a background check on character before drafting a player?
If convicted, probably 10 years. A good lawyer might be able to get it down to 5 as he’s had no prior convictions or issues. Non-the-less, his NFL career is over.
It's a ten year minimum in Florida for felonies with a firearm or explosive device.
ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
Giants have been in contact with CB DeAndre Baker, but Baker remains at large; did the Giants not tell Baker to turn himself in?
links to their website with a short story saying maybe the team did tell him or did not tell him or he's ignoring their advice.
Its clickbait but a headline like that should warrant a response from the team AND the NFL to Florio. link. - ( New Window )
Maybe Baker is adamant he’s innocent of these allegations.
trying to be smarter than 29 other teams. When a guy you had rated 10-15 in the draft falls to 30 you HAVE to stop and ask WHY?? You do NOT use 3 draft picks to go get this guy. That's a gamble not worth taking. If he fell to them at 38 in the 2nd rd- fine! Players don't work out for many reasons. There was a good chance, based on his poor work habits, he wasn't going to be a Judge guy and would get cut this year.
What he did, this kind of crime IS TOTALLY ON BAKER- NOT GETTLEMAN. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. But this organization has made too many bad decisions over the last 10 years. Its largely why they are a doormat. Over the last 6 years they have blown 3 top picks on Flowers, Apple and Baker. All, who with closer inspection, shouldn't have been drafted where they were. And that's with 2 GMs. So the problem is with scouting and the VP of Player Personell who is unfortunately an owner.
By your logic no team should ever draft a player based on value in the draft. After all, if the player is so good, why didn’t someone else take him?
Seriously though...blaming this mess with Baker on DG
You can blame him and the front office for trading up and picking a corner that, while talented, had some red flags. But they were willing to take that risk or look past it...but this isn't new to the NFL draft.
Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
please let me know what in his background would lead anyone to believe he would be involved with an armed robbery? Sometimes, you just get bad luck in the draft. This seems to be one of those occasions, there is not a need blame for everything that goes wrong.
Being a noncriminal to organizing a robbery at gunpoint with an organized escape plan? Most likely, Baker had a past pattern of brushes with the law over more minor matters and these were not spotted by the outfits responsible for NFL background checks. DG needs to review that part of the process carefully.
RE: Seriously though...blaming this mess with Baker on DG
Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
it is - but he also sucked on the field. It's one thing to roll the dice on a trade up for Marcus Peters. It's another thing to trade up for a guy who sucks and has a poor attitude (skipping voluntary meetings, getting suspended rookie year, falling asleep in meetings).
The armed robbery is nobody's fault except Bakers.
Totally bummed out today. Now, leave aside the crime and the incredible stupidity of Baker if the reports are true but the blame on Gettleman is strange. This is just what has been reported. A rookie on a bad team falls asleep at meetings. Now, a totally new coaching staff and a 2nd year player disses the new staff and misses the virtual meetings. And I would bet that there have been other negatives that have not been reported. Now, you can’t blame Gettleman for not knowing this would happen. But you can blame him for trading up & drafting a moron. And when Gettleman and the Giants have anything that approaches the Patriots record, then bring up Hernandez
Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
it is - but he also sucked on the field. It's one thing to roll the dice on a trade up for Marcus Peters. It's another thing to trade up for a guy who sucks and has a poor attitude (skipping voluntary meetings, getting suspended rookie year, falling asleep in meetings).
The armed robbery is nobody's fault except Bakers.
Eric, I said you can blame DG/front office on picking Baker who had some red flags as they seem to be aligned to how he has acted in a difficult rookie year. But not taking it to an armed robbery level.
Baker was the starting CB. Don’t say he wasn’t going to see the field cause it’s not true.
He WAS a starting CB under a coach that was atrocious. In all sincerity, what about Joe Judge strikes you as a coach who would continue to play a guy that has so far reportedly blown off the team and been unmotivated in the past?
The fact that Baker was on a gambling spree while blowing off
the virtual mini-camp means the tale was already told before he flipped the card table and pulled out the gun.
Some guys love playing football and some are in it for that first big money prize and can't see past that.
It's pretty clear where Baker(bought himself a Lambo, bought his mother a Bentley) falls on that spectrum. That's a vibe you would hope gets picked up in interviews, where Baker apparently had issues with a number of teams.
Baker was the starting CB. Don’t say he wasn’t going to see the field cause it’s not true.
He WAS a starting CB under a coach that was atrocious. In all sincerity, what about Joe Judge strikes you as a coach who would continue to play a guy that has so far reportedly blown off the team and been unmotivated in the past?
Spot on. Baker is exactly one of the guys who was already subject to Judge’s “everyone has to earn their spot” theme.
But given Bakers inability to respond to in person coaching, it’s not hard to imagine that he would get absolutely nothing out of virtual sessions. He probably has a very hard, if not impossible time following along.
I wonder if he was feeling stress from the situation and that led to his erratic behavior. Again, not trying to make excuses.
Good Morning Football segment before the draft, they had Baker come into the studio. You watch that and think man this kid has serious swag and seems like a cool, low key dude, and even says, on camera "i'm just a chill guy, never had any problems off the field, nothing."
Something we'll never know, but it would be interesting to know what changes in character and personality evaluation Gettleman implemented in the vetting process.
He clearly identified it as a problem from the previous management team.
RE: RE: RE: Seriously though...blaming this mess with Baker on DG
Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
it is - but he also sucked on the field. It's one thing to roll the dice on a trade up for Marcus Peters. It's another thing to trade up for a guy who sucks and has a poor attitude (skipping voluntary meetings, getting suspended rookie year, falling asleep in meetings).
The armed robbery is nobody's fault except Bakers.
Eric, I said you can blame DG/front office on picking Baker who had some red flags as they seem to be aligned to how he has acted in a difficult rookie year. But not taking it to an armed robbery level.
And btw - Baker didn't suck at UGA.
That's fair - and no he didn't suck at UGA. As I said in another post (not sure if it was this thread or another) the trade up for whoever our top CB was made sense. I have been on the bandwagon applauding the investments into the secondary so I would never complain about a move up for the top CB on the board.
Their evaluation was just a double miss because it turned out he wasn't so great on the field either. If he'd had a great rookie year and still been a knucklehead (like say Reuben Foster) it would have been disappointing but I think it would have made it a more forgivable pick in a twisted way.
because of his character was high. He had well documented character and attitude concerns coming out of UGA. His college coaches wouldn't even give him a strong endorsement when interviewed by teams.
You don't have to predict armed robbery, but at the same time it's not anywhere near as shocking of an outcome as say Saquon or Daniel Jones doing the same thing. It was a curious gamble to trade up for this guy on a team looking to clean up the culture and that can ill afford to miss on 1st rounders.
Arguing that Gettelman should get fired or resign... and they are discussing who should replace DG. This is going to get ridiculous for no other reason that their is nothing else to talk about.
But given Bakers inability to respond to in person coaching, it’s not hard to imagine that he would get absolutely nothing out of virtual sessions. He probably has a very hard, if not impossible time following along.
Mentioned above that he had a 22 Wonderlic. I don't buy "inability." It's motivation, or lack thereof.
RE: Love everyone saying the red flags about his work ethic
term "well documented" is really getting exaggerated here. I posted an article above of 10 players in that draft who had the highest level of concern about character and Baker wasn't listed.
If you look at his scouting reports, there's barely a mention of it, and I'll reiterate, he had no illegal activity in his past.
You guys make it seem like incidents were numerous and that all but the giants knew he was a ticking timebomb
Arguing that Gettelman should get fired or resign... and they are discussing who should replace DG. This is going to get ridiculous for no other reason that their is nothing else to talk about.
Did Gettleman tell Baker it was okay to go back to that house and commit armed robbery? If yes, then I agree he should resign.
Arguing that Gettelman should get fired or resign... and they are discussing who should replace DG. This is going to get ridiculous for no other reason that their is nothing else to talk about.
That anyone would insinuate Gettleman be fired for this specific incident is a disgrace. But I guess people can't help themselves when it comes to Gettleman.
If this were the standard, a lot of NFL executive and head coaches would be without a job. All over the league, dating back years.
Good lord.....no one here dislikes Gettleman more than I do
And it was a dumb pick even if Baker was Mother Theresa off the field.
I just don’t agree with DG’s approach to rebuilding this roster from the ground up. DG wasn’t great at finding corners in Carolina. His philosophy he’s stuffed down our throats for 3 years mentions nothing about adding a million corners to the roster via FA, countless draft picks, and trades.
If the entire roster needed to be rebuilt, which it did, why not focus on the positions you’re good at filling? Why not focus on players who align with your philosophy?
But given Bakers inability to respond to in person coaching, it’s not hard to imagine that he would get absolutely nothing out of virtual sessions. He probably has a very hard, if not impossible time following along.
Mentioned above that he had a 22 Wonderlic. I don't buy "inability." It's motivation, or lack thereof.
It's absurd. 'Yeah, he might be a little lazy' has now translated into, 'Yeah. F Gettleman for not knowing this dude would go all criminal after losing 70K.'
link to the draft thread for 7th round CB out of Minnesota.
David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
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1m
#247 NYG: Chris Williamson - CB/Minnesota
@ShrineBowl
alum. One of the favorites down at Shrine week. Top shelf athletic ability but also shows the discipline to stay in phase, trusting his feet and balance. Might be an ideal fit for nickel but can play outside
It's important to separate his laziness, ambivalence, and coach-ability from the truly dangerous and crazy thing he allegedly did.
Different signals indicate those behaviors. If Ourlads and the Draft Network caught wind of his work ethic problems in college, I'm confident Gettleman also had that information.
It's a very different type of vetting needed to understand if someone is on the edge of doing something as potentially dangerous as what Baker is accussed.
The vetting process Gettleman installed clearly indicated Baker was worth the investment and the risk. He rewarded the GM by being a real dork on the field and in the meeting room last year.
If I were Mara, and I agreed with Gettleman that culture is a major initiative, I'd raise and eyebrow with the behavior of Tate, Lauletta, Baker (before this), and the wisdom of selecting Lawrence.
Personally, I think culture is overblown and the cohort of rich, young, men who hit each other for a living will from time to time act like idiots.
DG should get fired for him mis-evaluating the team thinking they could contend his first few years on the job, horrible free agent signings, questionable drafting, and the LW trade.
It's a culmination of things he should be fired for. This is just the icing on the cake.
There's an old story that Napoleon was once considering giving a command to an officer, and Napleon said: "I know he's a good general, but is he lucky?” It's been a couple of years now with Gettleman running the team. He's made some good moves and he's made some bad moves, but I don't see him leading this franchise back to anything more than mediocrity. And this latest disaster, even if it's not his fault, doesn't help that perception. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm not optimistic.
the draft oversight is also not just about this crime
the work ethic issues red flag showed during last season and already this offseason he couldn't be bothered to find time to attend the virtual meetings during a fucking lockdown.
so that red flag has proven to be true.
those saying well how could you know he'd pull an armed robbery. you couldn't know that. but there were character red flags as i mentioned and whatever those flags were for has proven to be true
some people mentioned aaron hernandez. he was a 4th round pick not a 1st, which is when you can start to take chances on players with red flags. redskins took shadiq charles in rd 4 this year (a very good college player with serious red flags)
this really sucks. was looking forward to seeing Baker in year 2.
That being said, anyone calling for DG to be 'fired' or blaming DG for this mess needs to take a fucking walk. Last I checked we drafted 9 other players in 2019, a bunch of them look to be the goods. We signed Bradberry. We got some CB help in the draft this year as well.
The thing that sucks the most about this is that Baker might be spending a good amount of time in prison, a kid might have just thrown his life away. But sure, let's talk about Dave Gettleman here.
Hopefully Judge puts to bed the charade that purging the roster of bad actors "fixes" culture problems.
You're not going to construct a group of 60 young, rich, men -- many of whom have lived in a glorifying bubble since middle school -- and not have some assholes or idiots.
Coaching sets the culture, what's tolerated, how guys mature professionally, and what flaws can still be part of the solution.
Hopefully Judge puts to bed the charade that purging the roster of bad actors "fixes" culture problems.
You're not going to construct a group of 60 young, rich, men -- many of whom have lived in a glorifying bubble since middle school -- and not have some assholes or idiots.
Coaching sets the culture, what's tolerated, how guys mature professionally, and what flaws can still be part of the solution.
I hope Judge does indeed bring a better set of disciplines to this franchise, both on and off the field.
Unfortunately for Baker, it will clearly be too late as he just threw away his life.
Has he turned himself in yet?
RE: the draft oversight is also not just about this crime
the work ethic issues red flag showed during last season and already this offseason he couldn't be bothered to find time to attend the virtual meetings during a fucking lockdown.
so that red flag has proven to be true.
those saying well how could you know he'd pull an armed robbery. you couldn't know that. but there were character red flags as i mentioned and whatever those flags were for has proven to be true
some people mentioned aaron hernandez. he was a 4th round pick not a 1st, which is when you can start to take chances on players with red flags. redskins took shadiq charles in rd 4 this year (a very good college player with serious red flags)
You just described half of the people trying to come into the league. Some work out, some don't. And it wasn't like he sucked at Georgia. He was our 3rd pick in the 1st round. We lost a 4th and a 5th to take a flyer on him. Hardly a fireable offense by a GM.
Police report says two days earlier DB lost $70k gambling. Yesterday’s armed robbery happened at another gambling party, where he “flipped a card table”.
Motive must be either revenge against a cheater, or a loser’s sour grapes.
The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
I hope Judge does indeed bring a better set of disciplines to this franchise, both on and off the field.
Unfortunately for Baker, it will clearly be too late as he just threw away his life.
Has he turned himself in yet?
Sounds like authorities have been in contact with his attorney.
A great football coach can be a virtuous cycle for a team. Strong leadershop builds stronger men, who are in turn better football players, and understand the value of being better men.
Some coaches have that. Coughlin had it.
Of all the dopes on those Giants teams, only Shockey and Barber couldn't cut it. Strahan, Toomer, Boley, Burress, etc. all were able to be coached.
I was hoping he was going to be a lock-down corner for the next decade
Not a locked-up corner for the next 10 to life. Thought Judge and the Georgia connection, along with better overall coaching could do wonders for this kid.
The reports stink, and so do the witness statements. Just from subjective intuition, I don’t think the reports lay out facts that are completely irrefutable.
It’s notable to me that everyone most likely knew each other, and everyone says Dunbar was unarmed. Except the guy who said Dunbar pointed a gun at him. And the PC on Dunbar says they couldn’t conclude he had a gun, but his arrest warrant says he’s got a semi auto firearm. Seems like people were not witnessing on Dunbar like they did on Baker, “Shy,” the red masked man, etc.
And the cars “pre-positioned” for an “expedited getaway” bothers me. Two people claim this, based on conjecture. I always pre-position my car for an expedited getaway. It’s called parking. They allegedly ran out the back door of the house. Were the cars there? Why doesn’t anyone say how the cars were positioned other than as a stand in to demonstrate pre-meditation? Baker and “Shy” flipping the card table together, however, is pretty telling.
Just the Devil’s Advocate in me. Nobody is not clear that Baker was armed and directing traffic. He’s probably guilty. But the story is not known and we should wait.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but part of the trade for Baker included the 4th rounder acquired from New Orleans in the Eli Apple trade.
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
I didn't forget. 2nd rounder was a trade for the 1st. We gave up the 4th and 5th. Please show me articles where draft analysts called it out as a bad pick. If there were any, it sure wasn't very many. On top of that, the viewpoint was that though he struggled earlier he seemed to settle down towards the end of the year and most people were looking for an uptick in performance. It was only a "bad" pick in hindsight, and to further a few people's "BURN Gettleman!!" agenda.
I was hoping he was going to be a lock-down corner for the next decade
Not a locked-up corner for the next 10 to life. Thought Judge and the Georgia connection, along with better overall coaching could do wonders for this kid.
The reports stink, and so do the witness statements. Just from subjective intuition, I don’t think the reports lay out facts that are completely irrefutable.
It’s notable to me that everyone most likely knew each other, and everyone says Dunbar was unarmed. Except the guy who said Dunbar pointed a gun at him. And the PC on Dunbar says they couldn’t conclude he had a gun, but his arrest warrant says he’s got a semi auto firearm. Seems like people were not witnessing on Dunbar like they did on Baker, “Shy,” the red masked man, etc.
And the cars “pre-positioned” for an “expedited getaway” bothers me. Two people claim this, based on conjecture. I always pre-position my car for an expedited getaway. It’s called parking. They allegedly ran out the back door of the house. Were the cars there? Why doesn’t anyone say how the cars were positioned other than as a stand in to demonstrate pre-meditation? Baker and “Shy” flipping the card table together, however, is pretty telling.
Just the Devil’s Advocate in me. Nobody is not clear that Baker was armed and directing traffic. He’s probably guilty. But the story is not known and we should wait.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but part of the trade for Baker included the 4th rounder acquired from New Orleans in the Eli Apple trade.
was a horrible decision and what’s infuriating about it is the 2 CBs that went right after him. I hope this draft class ends up being a good one but if DG whiffed again I’m ready for NEW blood.
Kimberly Jones
@KimJonesSports
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As of 12:15pm, neither DeAndre Baker nor Quinton Dunbar is in custody, according to @MiramarPD
. The dept. says it will provide any updates on Twitter.
that interviewed several FL lawyers suggested the delay in turning himself in may be because his lawyer is negotiating bond, as it's not automatic in a case like this.
was a horrible decision and what’s infuriating about it is the 2 CBs that went right after him. I hope this draft class ends up being a good one but if DG whiffed again I’m ready for NEW blood.
Horrible decision according to who? You?
RE: RE: the draft oversight is also not just about this crime
the work ethic issues red flag showed during last season and already this offseason he couldn't be bothered to find time to attend the virtual meetings during a fucking lockdown.
so that red flag has proven to be true.
those saying well how could you know he'd pull an armed robbery. you couldn't know that. but there were character red flags as i mentioned and whatever those flags were for has proven to be true
some people mentioned aaron hernandez. he was a 4th round pick not a 1st, which is when you can start to take chances on players with red flags. redskins took shadiq charles in rd 4 this year (a very good college player with serious red flags)
You just described half of the people trying to come into the league. Some work out, some don't. And it wasn't like he sucked at Georgia. He was our 3rd pick in the 1st round. We lost a 4th and a 5th to take a flyer on him. Hardly a fireable offense by a GM.
no i did not. and they didn't take a fucking flyer on him. they drafted him in the first fucking round. trading a high 2, 4, and 5 to get him. this isn't hard to understand
RE: RE: The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
I didn't forget. 2nd rounder was a trade for the 1st. We gave up the 4th and 5th. Please show me articles where draft analysts called it out as a bad pick. If there were any, it sure wasn't very many. On top of that, the viewpoint was that though he struggled earlier he seemed to settle down towards the end of the year and most people were looking for an uptick in performance. It was only a "bad" pick in hindsight, and to further a few people's "BURN Gettleman!!" agenda.
wrong. those people who knew about his flags called it a questionable pick at the time. it WASN'T hindsight
Police report says two days earlier DB lost $70k gambling. Yesterday’s armed robbery happened at another gambling party, where he “flipped a card table”.
Motive must be either revenge against a cheater, or a loser’s sour grapes.
You gots to know when to holdem ... know when to foldem ... know when to walks away, know when to run ... you never counts your watches when you’re sitting at the table, they’ll be time enough for counting when the trials done.
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
I didn't forget. 2nd rounder was a trade for the 1st. We gave up the 4th and 5th. Please show me articles where draft analysts called it out as a bad pick. If there were any, it sure wasn't very many. On top of that, the viewpoint was that though he struggled earlier he seemed to settle down towards the end of the year and most people were looking for an uptick in performance. It was only a "bad" pick in hindsight, and to further a few people's "BURN Gettleman!!" agenda.
wrong. those people who knew about his flags called it a questionable pick at the time. it WASN'T hindsight
And who are these people other than a few armchair GMs on a message board that happened to make their broken clock analysis? Other than Sy, I don't remember anyone of note calling this (even remotely) a bad pick. And we didn't give up a 2nd. We traded it for a higher pick. We gave up a 4th and a 5th.
A team meeting cause you were out late at a strip club and are hung over.
It’s another thing to be pulling out a semi automatic pistol and robbing people. No way is this on Gettleman. Just like it’s not on BB in the Aaron Hernandez case. You can’t predict major crimes like this - if this is true it’s 100% on baker for doing this.
in saying they traded a high 2nd rounder is disingenuous.
Did they get a low 1st rounder AND Baker in return?
Huh, how is that bias. That’s a fact
They got either a low first round pick or baker in return, however you want to look at it.
What?? You have people saying they traded three draft picks for Baker. That they traded a 2nd, a 4th and a 5th.
The 1st and the 2nd round picks are swaps! they only lost a 4th and a 5th. You even have a couple people earlier saying it was a 3rd and a 5th.
If someonecan't wrap their head around the fact that the Giants only traded away 2 picks to draft Baker, then I don't expect them to understand that you can't actually exrapolate work ethic issues to ROBBING PEOPLE AT GUNPOINT
This situation really shines a light on the dumbasses out there
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
(1) The Giants traded three draft picks to get Baker.
(2) The net loss in draft picks from the trade was two, a fourth and a fifth.
DG is absolutely not to blame for what happened. But there were enough attitude concerns to preclude trading up for Baker, especially since he was a first round pick.
was a horrible decision and what’s infuriating about it is the 2 CBs that went right after him. I hope this draft class ends up being a good one but if DG whiffed again I’m ready for NEW blood.
Horrible decision according to who? You?
The kid is going to be facing 10 years in prison or more, after playing one mediocre season in the NFL.
Are you saying it was a good decision to trade up for Baker knowing what we know now? Is anyone saying that?
Obviously it's revisionist history because we know Baker has allegedly turned into a dangerous felon, although it doesn't sound like Baker was a clean prospect in terms of character flags (albeit nothing to suggest this).
Is now really the time that you're going to plant your flag into "according to who?"
(1) The Giants traded three draft picks to get Baker.
(2) The net loss in draft picks from the trade was two, a fourth and a fifth.
DG is absolutely not to blame for what happened. But there were enough attitude concerns to preclude trading up for Baker, especially since he was a first round pick.
Please show me the white papers linking reported laziness to criminal activity like ARMED ROBBERY.
the math. It is the inference. Can't be any plainer than this kind of inferral:
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The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
galore. Haven;t seen anybody say DG should have known he was going to be a felon. People are saying, now that he most likely gone, he should have not been drafted. From Sy,"What surprised me was the fact he didn�t receive a lot of love from the UGA coaching staff when it came to character and work ethic. In addition, it was public knowledge he didn�t interview very well". Anybody want that in a first round choice? Not me. As fans we didnt know that.
the math. It is the inference. Can't be any plainer than this kind of inferral:
Quote:
The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
The post I was responding to only mentioned the fourth and the fifth, and you seem to take objection to someone including the verbiage “high second round pick” for some reason, so my answer to that is.....maybe?
Simple question for you, was selecting baker a good move or a bad move?
Instead of trying to pick apart peoples critiques of Gettleman, why don’t you make the case that he’s doing a good job?
galore. Haven;t seen anybody say DG should have known he was going to be a felon. People are saying, now that he most likely gone, he should have not been drafted. From Sy,"What surprised me was the fact he didn�t receive a lot of love from the UGA coaching staff when it came to character and work ethic. In addition, it was public knowledge he didn�t interview very well". Anybody want that in a first round choice? Not me. As fans we didnt know that.
Hmmmm. I think there are reading problems galore. Including your own dumbass.
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After they cut
Mendenhall : 5/14/2020 7:49 pm : link : reply
Baker they need to fire Gettleman. What an embarrassment.
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Baker didnt just wake up and decide to start a life a crime. Clearly they messed up on doing his homework in the draft.
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DeAndre Baker..........
johnboyw : 5/14/2020 8:39 pm : link : reply
Looks like Getty may not have picked up the street in him during pre-draft interviews. Heard he told Dunbar or someone else with a gun to kill someone who was there. Minimum of 20 years. Just another dumbass punk.
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Great character evals
XBRONX : 5/14/2020 8:40 pm : link : reply
at CB. First Apple now Baker.
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so where are the DG defenders now?
GiantsFan84 : 5/14/2020 8:47 pm : link : reply
did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
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A GM trades up for a player in the first round,
Default : 5/14/2020 9:23 pm : link : reply
and that player isn’t on the team in year two.
That’s on the GM.
Very clearly, those comments are insinuating that this was expected.
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
It seems like a natural and fair point for management to assess how they evaluate players and what the strategy on managing "character" really is.
Without understanding the true dynamics and/or disruption -- as a fan I've always felt guys who dogged it on the field were a rung below the guys who were loud mouths.
Guys like Jenkins and Baker are the players who annoyed me. Guys like Beckham and Collins not so much.
And I make no connection between dogging it and being an armed robber. But dogging it being a dip shit do seem to have a connection.
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
Ummm, the first part of your post is also true.
I understand. Put aside for the moment the current act of supreme stupidity, it was probably premature to label Baker a bust after one year under a dubious coaching staff.
wind up giving Gettleman more of a pass than some people think. Yes, it appears there were some red flags, but nothing to this extent IMO could have been predicted.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
This seems like one of those situations were a lot of both scenarios are true -- 1) Baker has a shitty work ethic and dogged it on the field and 2) is a a crazy, real world dangerous asshole.
No. 1 Gettleman is accountable for, No. 2 he's not.
We still have a lot of bodies at CB. One or more might emerge and surprise.
Ownership will ultimately determine whether and to what extent DG should be held accountable for trading up for Baker. (I'm sure they won't and shouldn't hold him accountable for what happened.) My impression was that DG was going to retire after this year anyway.
wind up giving Gettleman more of a pass than some people think. Yes, it appears there were some red flags, but nothing to this extent IMO could have been predicted.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
You could be right. I asked in another thread what the reaction would be if this didn’t happen and all of the news came out that he was skipping meetings. I wonder if there would still be people defending the pick.
When something like this happens you just have to wonder, is this guy already feeling the effects of continues blows to the head so that his judgement/decision making is already severely impaired. Not everyone is the same...with some of these guys it may creep in a lot earlier. I remember when Chris Henry died (believe he was 25 or 26) they found that he indeed had CTE.
DG shoudn't be responsible for not knowing Baker would do this
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
wind up giving Gettleman more of a pass than some people think. Yes, it appears there were some red flags, but nothing to this extent IMO could have been predicted.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
Someone may have to start another PJCAS appreciation thread if you keep making good points like this.
Michael kay using a negative tone when talking the Giants culture ( like all we do is sign/draft hoodlums ).Don La Greca just now is saying the negative thing about the Giants is they don't win......Not that they keep getting people with bad character …….I agree with Don La Greca. (But that is just me )…...GO GIANTS !!!!!
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
Gettleman thought the kid was worth the risk.
99.999999% of NFL players don't hold up people at gunpoint while under contract.
Call him a lousy pick cause he sucked on the field last year, or because there were 'red flags', but don't blame Gettleman for the kid turning out to be a complete psycho.
Show me the draft writeup that says: "Excellent 40, with potential to be a prophetically horrible gambler with an explosive temper and willingness to rob people at gunpoint."
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
?? DG is 100% responsible for Baker being on the team, and 0% responsible for him going to jail.
No matter how you slice it this goes in the L column for DG
Maybe all the other guys in the DB room will be awesome and the secondary becomes a team strength and we start winning a bunch of games. If so, then I won’t give a shit about this.
I hope that happens, but at this point that is nothing but hope.
with him trading picks for a player with questionable work ethic and some character concerns when Byron Murphy was sitting right there. Guy is the total package except he's 5'9. Baker was the one pick that was a major headscrather with the so called focus on "culture".
To the people complaining about big Dex. Get a clue, 95% of these guys are on gear. He just got caught. And it was a good thing he did, probably goes top 10. Dude's with his athletic profile, size, production with pass rushing push don't get out of the top 10 generally. I'm a huge fan of Brown and he went top 10 and Dex is a better player, but less engine (he needs snaps off) which makes it a wash.
there were red flags back in training camp when he got injured and jenkins told him the importance of taking mental reps and he blew it off.
between bake the soon-to-be felon, and the perpetually injured beal, gettleman's had a rough go at stabilizing the CB position despite throwing a ton of draft picks at it.
As a Giants fan, I was frustrated by and now disappointed by this sentiment after Baker and others were picked.
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"Janoris has a bunch of puppies he's got to train," Gettleman told reporters.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
This man gets it
No, he doesn't. He's right regarding the #2 pick. However, just because Gettleman had multiple 4ths and 5ths doesn't mean he should gamble away those picks and be given a pass should that gamble not pay off. It was still a questionable trade no matter how many 4th and 5th rounders Gettleman would have had in his pocket.
some are prone to judge this as open and shut. I believe in innocence until PROVEN guilty. Given what was said, I am by no means insinuating the allegations are false but can we withhold our vitriol until all the facts are in hand?
It is a disconcerting trend. In these days, an allegation is akin to fact.
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
Said first round pick is now a bust due to this. Character, psychology, personality fit, prediction of work ethic as a pro and such. None of this is part of the process?
This is now a first round bust. Not sure how this does not go on the GM's record.
I did not think it was a bad move to trade up to get a talented player at the end of the 1st who had top half talent. Plus the extra year option on. 1sr round picks is an important one
Don’t recall any reports of him in college regarding potential violence - lazy, yes maybe a knucklehead at times, but nothing like this
I don’t recall Accorsi getting fired for Jeremiah Parker getting convicted for his part in the death of his girlfriends 4 year old
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
DG is responsible for putting a competitive product in the field
If they are still letting guys run free in the secondary in the near future, I’m not giving him a pass because of this.
Like you are giving him a pass already?
You've spent a majority of the day blaming Gettleman for picking Baker. Why the fuck do you have to wait for anything that happens on the field?
Are you saying someone else made the pick?
I’m not following.
Busting out on a first round pick sucks. Busting out on a first round pick in less than 16 months sucks a a lot. It’s hard to win that way. Just ask Jerry Reese.
If we can blame Reese for Eli Apple being a mental case
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
coming out of the draft. And i was surprised the Giants picked him. I don't mind the trade up into the 1st, i actually think that's a good "moneyball" approach to get the extra option year. I just thought he was the 3rd, maybe 4th CB in the draft and I was very interested in some of the Offensive Tackles still on the board. Thought for sure the trade was for a tackle, such a need spot, but no.
I'm disappointed to lose a 1st rounder like this, it really sucks. And we will never know how good he could have been. Kind of like David Wilson, but for different reasons. I wasn't a fan of drafting him either, and he didn't have the best rookie year. But i was excited to see what he could do and its just too bad we never got to find out how good he could have been. I feel bad for David, i don't feel anything for DeAndre but disappointment.
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
@AndySlater
JUST IN: Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar, accused of armed robbery, has letters from the alleged victims saying he was not involved.
“I can’t believe Miramar PD did a virtual touchdown dance without investigating further,” his attorney Michael Grieco tells me.
5:02 PM · May 15, 2020·Twitter for
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
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Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
As a Giants fan, I was frustrated by and now disappointed by this sentiment after Baker and others were picked.
Quote:
"Janoris has a bunch of puppies he's got to train," Gettleman told reporters.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
the guy who had a dead body in his house and got kicked out of florida (florida!) was the mentor
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
Doesn't explain the getaway cars though
That was a report from witnesses there which sounded like absolute bullshit. The people there are trying to cover their own asses as well. "Lost money to them? No idea what you are talking about officer they just took my watches for no reason".
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
This is how many warrants go down for high profile clients from football to white collar guys. They don't want a media shitstorm to be there when they get arrested.
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
6m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
I am a bit out of my element defending DG. There are others who do it so often it’s second nature.
I agree it’s a bust and it’s on his watch. I am just separating the statement that DG was responsible for what happened as stated in your posts.
Early reports on this are so ridiculous. It was pretty clearly a card
game got out of hand and Baker didn't like getting stiffed and he took what was his. Guy is a fucking idiot doing it over 70k, but that is another argument. To think a bunch of football players had this elaborate heist planned for 70k in their exotic cars is asinine. I'm honestly curious what type of operation this was considering security was non existent. Sounds like he was playing with a bunch of drug dealers honestly. There are plenty of these high stakes games around and they always have some sort of security at door.
seems to me (and Tom Rock is not exactly with it here) that smart someone above stated it's likely about bail conditions. Even if Baker is dumb as dirt, with his assets (though diminished, above and below the line), he's able to hire a competent criminal att'y
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
christian, love ya man, and we prolly disagree as much as agree, you're thoughtful, but here I think you're prolly grasping at straws, throw this man a life preserver!!
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
christian, love ya man, and we prolly disagree as much as agree, you're thoughtful, but here I think you're prolly grasping at straws, throw this man a life preserver!!
As is quite often the case, I’m pretty confident I’m wrong about this ^
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
I’m obviously not a lawyer, but what does this all mean? Is Baker’s lawyer “negotiating” to not have him arrested? Is he negotiating bail, negotiating so he doesn’t have to turn himself in? What is being negotiated I just don’t get it? Also apparently Dunbar had sworn affidavits that he wasn’t involved from witnesses?
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
As for Tony Pauline's "dumb as dirt" line, Pauline's been known to be creative with his alleged sources. I would not trust that anyone associated with the Giants actually made that comment.
As has been mentioned, Baker had a 22 Wonderlic score. Not Einstein but not dirt either.
When I commented did my comment part not show up? What does “negotiating” mean in regards to the attorneys? Are they negotiating Baker turning himself in, bail? Dunbar has sworn affidavits from witnesses that he wasn’t involved...
When I commented did my comment part not show up? What does “negotiating” mean in regards to the attorneys? Are they negotiating Baker turning himself in, bail? Dunbar has sworn affidavits from witnesses that he wasn’t involved...
Probably bail amount
The problem with this franchise and certainly DG is the poster boy
for this is that they are stuck in the past and wouldn't understand what good culture was if it hit them in the face.
I said this from the moment DG joined the team and it is even more obvious today he may be the smartest guy in the room but that isn't as much of an asset today as it was even 10 years ago. The best decisions come from information platforms, decision making systems, cultures of innovation where new ideas are fostered.
Talk about being excited about Judge all you want but if you asked BB to build the systems he uses in New England fresh he'd probably have no idea, because he's a football guy, not a guy who hires software developers, builds complex value models or understands the talents and capabilities to do that. Judge is carrying what is clearly dead weight here and BB is lifted by someone like Ernie Adams and Kraft. From Ernie Adams wikipedia page
"Belichick got his next head coaching opportunity with the Patriots in 2000. This time, Adams joined the team not as a coach, but as "Football Research Director." Adams fills a variety of roles for the team. On gamedays, he assists the coaching staff from the press box, advising Belichick on which plays to issue a replay challenge.[1] He also assists the scouting department in preparing for the NFL Draft in the spring, and builds the team's player value chart for the draft.[1] Finally, Adams works on special assignments for the coaching and scouting staffs, which typically involve breaking down game tape.[1] In 2007, as part of Spygate, it was revealed that Adams received tapes from a "third camera" that recorded opponents' defensive signals from a location on the sideline, in violation of a league memo issued by commissioner Roger Goodell."
The Pats have an entrenched director of research who by all accounts is amazing at what he does so amazing that his boss Kraft was able to start a company no doubt derived from some of the models he build. It can't be stressed enough the value of doing something like building the draft value chart in a mathematical way. The Pats did take Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round no doubt with an appropriate risk weighting in a mathematical calculation. Ernie Adams had started his own investment firm before working for the Pats and coached in the NFL. We think a guy that had a few years of consulting experience should be put in an equivalent role leading our analysis efforts and we've seen the results.
In complex numbers games with limited resources math is your friend, we put a guy in charge that bucks the math and types on fake computers at people who have the audacity to suggest more math might be helpful.
And that's really the larger problem. The Giants, Gettleman, think they are smarter than everyone else and know things other teams don't. I'm of the belief that everyone has different perspectives and can add value and proper systems accumulate and distribute knowledge. The Giants as an organization are over confident and overconfidence makes you prone to errors.
The Giants brass seems to like authority and their big "culture" purge was clearly against anyone speaking out but sometimes people just tell you what you want to hear. The Pats authority is respected not because BB is willing to cut ties with anyone, it's that top to bottom the decisions of the team are respected. Our GM being a laughing stock in public. Our team being lost for years. You can bring someone in to threaten players for not showing up sure but until you show competence it doesn't matter how authoritative you are. DG isn't respected by a lot of the media, a lot of the fan base, the owners and franchise are losing respect. THAT is the real problem not some threat of being cut, because there is zero Giants pride at this point.
The sum of our decisions from the top have added up to the same bad results on the field for a long time now, and we have made no changes at the top, none. DG was as far from a change as could be and it's showing right now. Judge can only do so much, no one should forget that BB the most talented coach of our time failed in his first stint. With different structures in place, owners, research etc. he was able to succeed.
Can anyone make a remotely good case that we have the right structures in place right now?
I hope Judge is a miracle worker but it's disappointing to see stain after stain on this franchise and the same people in charge. I don't know how the defenders of these people find the energy but bully to them.
Why would anyone pick in the first round a player with BAD WORK Ethics or HABITS.
First round? How about first overall.You remember a guy named Jadaveon Clowney?
That was a head scratcher for me. Leading up to the draft everyone was predicting him #1 and I'm thinking, "No, that can't be, how could you use the first overall pick and give a kid that kind of money whose excuse for a bad year was that he was guarding against injury?"
There are three reasons for a prospect with "generational" talent having an unproductive final year in college: 1) He's not as good as his talent suggests he should be; 2) Lack of effort; 3) He was playing through an injury. Reason #3 is the only acceptable reason and even then it would give me pause when it comes to the first overall pick. But I digress.
As I pointed out in an earlier comment, Reuben Foster is an even more glaring example of a team gambling and losing when they traded up into the bottom of the 1st round for a prospect with a top 10-15 grade but red flags attached. The Niners rebounded pretty well from that mistake.
My take on it is similar to what others have said (including Sy, I think): Gettleman had so many picks he felt like he was playing with the house money when he traded up. It was a chance to get the #1 CB on their board with the 5th year option included. I think if the Giants were without all the additional picks, he doesn't make that move.
I'm not saying Gettleman doesn't deserve criticism, but the stars were aligned perfectly for taking the kind of gamble he did. Sometimes these gambles pay off in a big way. It was a gamble when Miami took Tunsil. It was a gamble when the Bucs took Warren Sapp. It was a gamble when the Vikings took Randy Moss. All three of those guys fell because of red flags. Those are first round gambles on greatness that paid off. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes the blues get a hold of you... It's gonna be a sweet season! - ( New Window )
Am I right in thinking that the only 1st round pick made by Reese to sign a second contract with the Giants without going to another team first was JPP.
If this turns out to be true this is an organizational failure.
There must have been no real homework done on this pick. The guy has a bad attitude from day one where he doesn't need to pay attention during practice. Now he is involved with this? Either they have no connections or they didn't do any investigation. That doesn't even get into his play on the field.
the only way the people at the top will change is if they sell the team- not happening, so it might be time to root elsewhere. Taking a chance on Baker was not the problem. Using 3 draft choices to get him was. If he fell to 38 and they took him and this happened, those are the breaks. Guys bust for a variety of reasons. NO ONE could see this coming. Anyone who thinks they would have drafted this guy at all if they thought this might happen is crazy.
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
Am I right in thinking that the only 1st round pick made by Reese to sign a second contract with the Giants without going to another team first was JPP.
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
Every time anything happens to Giants, DG is bad mouthed by too many
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
Maybe Baker and Dunbar were using water guns?
RE: Every time anything happens to Giants, DG is bad mouthed by too many
and owners getting wise. People talk about John Lynch all the time in reference to DG and it’s non sensical. Lynch was a young fresh face with new ideas.
But as I’ve pointed out even a CTO or a director of research with the proper qualifications and power in the organization, someone with a relevant title on the senior staff that isn’t referred to as a “computer guy.” Someone with more respect than that, preview of something relevant to a refined mathematical approach like building a draft value board.
If I could choose to care about the Giants or not I wouldn’t torcher myself like this. I’ve actually watched more games than I should have in person the last few seasons of this “team.” There isn’t enough ink in the world to expound on this disaster of a franchise and maybe just maybe enough people will get tired enough of it to do something real about it
and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
I was a criminal prosecutor for my first lawyer job
I don’t think defendants can negotiate bail. The prosecutors office doesn’t even set bail, a judge does.
I would guess they are negotiating how and where he can turn himself in to avoid the media. And then where he will be held and how quickly he can be arraigned for bail to be set so he can pay it and be released.
Also, like Dunbar’s attorney,
Bakers lawyer can be advocating and providing what evidence he can to have the charges reduced.
Though generally people are charged with the highest count and it is reduced later after more investigation.
I was a criminal prosecutor for my first lawyer job
I don’t think defendants can negotiate bail. The prosecutors office doesn’t even set bail, a judge does.
I would guess they are negotiating how and where he can turn himself in to avoid the media. And then where he will be held and how quickly he can be arraigned for bail to be set so he can pay it and be released.
Also, like Dunbar’s attorney,
Bakers lawyer can be advocating and providing what evidence he can to have the charges reduced.
Though generally people are charged with the highest count and it is reduced later after more investigation.
The fucking King of Analytics uses this example to say we don't have a guy "with the proper qualifications" that has led to a string of bad decisions, including picking Baker.
Are you really insinuating that this incident is a result of not having the proper models for draft strategy?
and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
Because they rather not break out the swat team?
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me.
these red flags of Baker are being wildly exaggerated. If he was so widely thought of as a problem, why wasn't he on the article of the top 10 players with red flags that I linked earlier?
You'd swear this was Lawrence Phillips here.
RE: Deandre Baker's lawyer just posted on Instagram, disputing the charges
"We have had affidavits from several witnesses that also dispute the allegations and exculpate our client. Our investigator has had them for some time."
Interesting how he says they've had these affidavits for "some time"
and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
Because they rather not break out the swat team?
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me.
Break out the SWAT team? You cannot be serious. You think they break out the SWAT team on every arrest warrant? Ludicrous thinking.
and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
Because they rather not break out the swat team?
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me.
Break out the SWAT team? You cannot be serious. You think they break out the SWAT team on every arrest warrant? Ludicrous thinking.
Swat team is an exaggeration, but when they want to arrest someone who doesn’t want to be arrested it’s a pretty serious interaction.
Bradford Cohen, the attorney for #Giants CB DeAndre Baker, released a statement on Instagram (
@lawronin
). In the statement, he claims several witnesses dispute the allegations and calls his client “innocent of any charges.” https://instagram.com/p/CAOtKmslJg5/?igshid=culrcjl9w85k…
due to it being bogus and gets his head on straight/ends up being a good player for us. Probably WON’T happen, but still.
Even if he gets out of this, I've got to believe Joe Judge is thinking Baker is a cancer on the culture I"m trying to instil. Not just from this, but from his falling asleep in meetings, from not wanting to learn stuff, from thinking his natural talent will get him by at NFL level. I'd want him gone.
RE: Would be hilarious if he ends up getting out of this
due to it being bogus and gets his head on straight/ends up being a good player for us. Probably WON’T happen, but still.
For skipping team Zoom meetings all week alone, Baker was already demonstrating a lack of commitment and a level of immaturity that typically precludes success in the NFL.
Even without brandishing a firearm to commit armed robbery at an illegal poker game during an ill-advised social gathering set against the backdrop of stay-at-home pandemic advisories, Baker was well on his way to making Eli Apple look like a dedicated professional by comparison.
The hilarious part is the extent to which some fans will contort themselves to avoid being critical of anything this franchise does.
Sunday who had their stupid fucking mind made up with no understanding, research or rational who wanted him cut, in jail, beaten, and all the stupid fucking posts I had to read about this when charges hadn't even been pressed yet and how Gettlemen is a failure and needs to be fired....blah blah blah
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
Sunday who had their stupid fucking mind made up with no understanding, research or rational who wanted him cut, in jail, beaten, and all the stupid fucking posts I had to read about this when charges hadn't even been pressed yet and how Gettlemen is a failure and needs to be fired....blah blah blah
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
All the posts you had to read? You could have read none of them.
Fuck off.
RE: RE: seriously all the fuck tards on this thread
Sunday who had their stupid fucking mind made up with no understanding, research or rational who wanted him cut, in jail, beaten, and all the stupid fucking posts I had to read about this when charges hadn't even been pressed yet and how Gettlemen is a failure and needs to be fired....blah blah blah
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
All the posts you had to read? You could have read none of them.
Fuck off.
I read them for fun, it’s interesting watching ignorant people show their true colors with words like “thug.” Sad actually but definitely a few good laughs along the way as well.
Sunday who had their stupid fucking mind made up with no understanding, research or rational who wanted him cut, in jail, beaten, and all the stupid fucking posts I had to read about this when charges hadn't even been pressed yet and how Gettlemen is a failure and needs to be fired....blah blah blah
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
I'm sorry this happened to you.
In light of this unfortunate, yet still egregious lack of restraint on the part of so many posters, myself included, perhaps Eric will update BBI's Code of Conduct so you're not forced to read anything that might upset your clearly delicate sensibilities.
In fact, I propose that each new thread must include a disclaimer in the title specifically stating that you do not have to read it.
someone light a candle or say a Novena for the Giants
He’ll be on the Cowboys in 10 minutes.
millions of dollars because of this.
You are a millionaire with potential to earn millions more- why are you committing armed robbery?
Also what a whiff this pick is looking like.
Asshole.
millions of dollars because of this.
You are a millionaire with potential to earn millions more- why are you committing armed robbery?
Also what a whiff this pick is looking like.
and idiot with money is still an idiot
@KimJonesSports
·
1m
The statement from the #NYG: “We are aware of the situation. We have been in contact with DeAndre. We have no further comment at this time.”
It very well could be. Could be a set up, could be true, partially trur. Who knows. Let the facts come out first
Link - ( New Window )
Waste of a pick. AS I SAID AT THE TIME WE MADE IT.
I’m not doubting the arrest warrant is real, I guess I’m doubting the details alleged in the report.
Why do this yet the getaway cars are Lambo, Mercedes... story was he lost $70 grand gambling a few days ago? Why not just stop gambling? You sign a deal for $10M and you decide to blow this all away?
Literally almost every gun lol
Quote:
It's very real. Link - ( New Window )
I’m not doubting the arrest warrant is real, I guess I’m doubting the details alleged in the report.
LOL. Sure, why not.
He'd separate a shoulder opening the door or something.
Why do this yet the getaway cars are Lambo, Mercedes... story was he lost $70 grand gambling a few days ago? Why not just stop gambling? You sign a deal for $10M and you decide to blow this all away?
Well that seems obvious. Might have a gambling problem.
I'm a Logan Ryan fan but he is a slot defender. This is great news for Ballentine and Beal.
Quote:
go sign logan ryan
I'm a Logan Ryan fan but he is a slot defender. This is great news for Ballentine and Beal.
Neither was Baket
TMZ usually doesn't post stuff without verifying it.
They play different positions so I don't see the connection personally. This is about Beal and Ballentine now.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
go sign logan ryan
I'm a Logan Ryan fan but he is a slot defender. This is great news for Ballentine and Beal.
I’m not very confident in either. Both looked overmatched last year. At least Baker looked competent over the last quarter of the season. We’re probably gonna find out if either is worth a damn this year now.
Stat.
- pointing guns directly at people
- left in vehicles that looked pre-positioned for a quick getaway suggesting planning
Thats the application for the warrant not arrest report. Still not good
WTF has happened to this franchise?
While I’m not ready to shit on Dave for this yet, I need to go back and re-read Sy’s write up on Baker. I want to see if there were any character flags. If there were, then maybe we can question Dave’s decision to trade back into round 1 for him.
Right because the good GMs can tell the fucking future.
All accounts showed baker wasn’t a problem child before being drafted. Carry on with the pitchforks some of you are fucking brutal and that’s being kind.
"Hi DeAndre, it's Dave. Hope you're safe and well. Quick question. Did you commit an armed robbery yesterday?"
Save us, Sam Beal
WTF has happened to this franchise?
Yes because the giants never had a player get arrested while they were winning..
The worst thing about this is this is a guy the Giants spent draft capital to move up back into round 1 last year. They could have stayed put and had their pick between Dalton Risner, Erik McCoy, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf or Greedy Williams...all guys that I personally wanted over Baker.
Or let's not jump to conclusions and see how this plays out? It seems like celebrity/athlete arrests always turn out way different than the first reports that come out.
Flowers
Apple
Baker
Can’t keep missing these picks. I’d imagine Baker will be cut.
Link - ( New Window )
millions of dollars because of this.
You are a millionaire with potential to earn millions more- why are you committing armed robbery?
Also what a whiff this pick is looking like.
Stupid is as stupid does
The worst thing about this is this is a guy the Giants spent draft capital to move up back into round 1 last year. They could have stayed put and had their pick between Dalton Risner, Erik McCoy, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf or Greedy Williams...all guys that I personally wanted over Baker.
Not to mention Cody Ford and Jawan Taylor.
Why does this piss me off!!!! Ugh
Next man up
Quote:
Let Sam Beal and Corey Ballentine battle it out for the starting job and let Darnay Holmes start in the slot.
Or let's not jump to conclusions and see how this plays out? It seems like celebrity/athlete arrests always turn out way different than the first reports that come out.
Obviously. I'm just acting as if there is some validity to these allegations. Logan Ryan is a slot guy. Let Sam Beal and Corey Ballentine battle it out for the outside CB position.
Fire him for what? For drafting a player that got in trouble? Guess the Pats should have fired Belichick for drafting a murderer?
Jesus Christ sometimes this board is the worst.
No we get to waste more 2021 draft picks on corners, yay.
Quote:
Baker they need to fire Gettleman. What an embarrassment.
Fire him for what? For drafting a player that got in trouble? Guess the Pats should have fired Belichick for drafting a murderer?
Jesus Christ sometimes this board is the worst.
Belichick can get away with drafting a red flag player who was a red flag in college because he's the greatest coach of all time.
Baker didnt just wake up and decide to start a life a crime. Clearly they messed up on doing his homework in the draft.
the character concerns were there from day 1 at georgia...how did our guys miss this?
Fucking blind asswipe!
No we get to waste more 2021 draft picks on corners, yay.
A.J. Brown would look awfully good about now.
1) We traded a 3rd and a 5th to move up just 7 slots to get him. It felt to me like Gettleman was a little trigger-happy with the trade because he a) had so many picks on his hands, and b) missed out on trading up for Josh Allen earlier in the draft. But we really could have used that 3rd rounder now in hindsight.
2) There were 3 or 4 corners all of similar talent/value available at the time, and we were picking just 7 picks later, so I did not feel that CB wast the position to trade up for at THAT time if we were going to trade up.
3) DG had talked about "cleaning up the culture of the locker-room" and Baker had known character concerns. We'd cut/traded much more talented players with barely any "attitude problems" for the sake of the culture, then turn around and trade up for a guy with character concerns. Just weird.
4) Baker was known for his great skills in man-coverage. Some said he had the talent to become a "shutdown" man corner. So of course the Giants decide to play him in zone the entire year and he sucked. If you really know your DC's system how do you trade up for a corner who who doesn't fit said system. Just surprising that there seemed to be a clear disconnect between DG and Bettcher on that front.
So yeah, I was actually in favor of keeping DG another year, but still-- let's not forget the guy is 8-24 as a GM here, and let's wait until this team has an actual winning season on his watch before we give him high marks for a "great" off-season. He's done a number of things since he got here that are completely inexplicable, and I don't think this is fully a "hindsight is 20/20" situation with Baker. A lot of us saw these holes in DG's logic when he made the move to trade up and draft Baker and a year later much of those criticisms have been proven right.
Beal is a stick with two bum shoulders.
Ballentine was a late round pick for a reason,as far as I can see.
Lance Zierlein projected Love for round 2.
He should get a very hard look for the outside CB spot.
Love is all we need - ( New Window )
In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft.
How many GM’s you think asked him in interviews:
“Hey, DeAndre, let me present you with a hypothetical situation:
Let’s say you go to a party with an automatic weapon and shit kind of hits the fan. How would you react?”
Fucking blind asswipe!
Well, Gettleman preached “culture” after trading Beckham. The problem with a statement like that is when shit like this happens. Another wasted first round pick. Ugh.
no bueno...no bueno
Admit it, you're just loving this.
As an aside, I just finished watching the five-part OJ Simpson documentary. He unravels in south Florida.
Not if you're Charles Barkley
Hey, if you're not going to social distance, might as well wear a mask :D
Fucking blind asswipe!
Strike three. Leonard Williams deal was strike 2
Beal is a stick with two bum shoulders.
Ballentine was a late round pick for a reason,as far as I can see.
Lance Zierlein projected Love for round 2.
He should get a very hard look for the outside CB spot. Love is all we need - ( New Window )
He will. Judge even mentioned earlier that Love will get a shot at outside corner.
Still butt hurt huh??
He’s slit corner. Opportunity for Beal and Ballentine.
Also doesn’t seem like Judge would want any part of this guy if this is true. Spending quality offseason time robbing people at gunpoint instead of just hanging out normally......fucking Christ
and I would have no issue getting rid of him tonight
but please lets find out a few facts first
No. But called strike on a Gettleman. Actually with the Beal pick, this might be strike four.
Rough indeed.
Wouldn’t have made a difference, he went #3
He will. Judge even mentioned earlier that Love will get a shot at outside corner.
Thanks, good to know.
If the charges are stick and he pleads guilty or is found guilty, it triggers the forfeiture clause that is standard in every player's contract. There is a bit of a process and a potential grievance that can be filed, but the Player's Association likely won't make an effort to represent Baker's interests.
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
and I would have no issue getting rid of him tonight
but please lets find out a few facts first
They’re not going to wait till trial.
Trumaine Johnson - was a huge FA bust for the Jets and couldn't stay healthy for a good part of his time there
Aqib Talib - yeah right
Eli Apple - bwahahahahaha
Brandon Carr - he knows Garrett...
All in all, Kirkpatrick or Johnson may be a decent signing to compete with Beal and Ballentine for the outside CB spot, but I'd be rooting REALLY hard for Beal. At least we know Beal can play a bit. He was up-and-down last season, but it was really his first game-action. Ballentine was awful throughout (albeit playing the slot).
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Okudah wouldn't have been a waste after all. Too many idiots in the NFL to declare a bad roster as set at a position.
Wouldn’t have made a difference, he went #3
After so many said he wasn't a top 5 pick. Point is still valid.
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creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
No it didn’t. See link above. He gambled.
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creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
While I’m not ready to shit on Dave for this yet, I need to go back and re-read Sy’s write up on Baker. I want to see if there were any character flags. If there were, then maybe we can question Dave’s decision to trade back into round 1 for him.
IIRC there were flags on Baker.
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creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
It was reported in more than one place that Baker fell in the draft due to character concerns. So especially for a team that preaches the “character” garbage, this is especially on them.
of mistaken identity.
Like, you know, Gettleman thought he was drafting a CB, but he got a nut job instead.
Flowers
Apple
Baker
Can’t keep missing these picks. I’d imagine Baker will be cut.
Every team whiffs on 1st rounders. Want to feel bad about first round picks? Look at Seattle over the last handful of years.
LJ Collier, Germain Ifedi, a backup RB Rashad Penny, trading back into round 2 to take Malik McDowell who never played a snap, trading first rounders for a declining Jimmy Graham and Percy Harvin- two guys who produced very little. They even topped it off by taking a LB in round 1 this year that many had as a round 3 prospect.
@DDuggan21
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1m
DeAndre Baker didn't participate in the Giants' virtual meeting today or any of the other meetings during the team's voluntary minicamp this week, per source
@DDuggan21
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1m
DeAndre Baker didn't participate in the Giants' virtual meeting today or any of the other meetings during the team's voluntary minicamp this week, per source
He's gone. He is not a Joe Judge-type of player.
@DDuggan21
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1m
DeAndre Baker didn't participate in the Giants' virtual meeting today or any of the other meetings during the team's voluntary minicamp this week, per source
He had a robbery to plan.
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In comment 14902649 Brown Recluse said:
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creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
No it didn’t. See link above. He gambled.
Your link posts no information whatsoever. Your grasping.
Unless you can prove to me that Baker was previously violent or this fucking stupid (like a Joe Mixon) then this is one of those scenarios that really sucks and it’s 100% on the player.
The Giants are very deep in the secondary, so they'll be ready to plug and play.
(But without guns.)
Do tell!
Link - ( New Window )
The Giants are very deep in the secondary, so they'll be ready to plug and play.
(But without guns.)
Really? Who’s their best player, Peppers? Bradberry? Because other than those two all I see is rookies or guys who didn’t cover themselves in glory as rookies,
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In comment 14902729 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 14902649 Brown Recluse said:
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creaming in their Superman tighty-whities right now
Gettelman drafted a guy who’s background checked out (I would think). Player makes a stupid decision a year later and that’s on him and no one else.
I dont expect many on this board to grasp that, but that’s the reality.
No it didn’t. See link above. He gambled.
Your link posts no information whatsoever. Your grasping.
Unless you can prove to me that Baker was previously violent or this fucking stupid (like a Joe Mixon) then this is one of those scenarios that really sucks and it’s 100% on the player.
There were off the field concerns. I remember reading that at the time.
The tone needs to be set for the Judge area....here you go.
Only if we can’t get from out of the contract, and if he somehow still holds any value after this is all said and done. I think they will likely cut him if it cancels out the contract, crossing my fingers.
@AdamSchefter
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3m
A spokesperson for Miramar Police told @BradyHenderson
that there have been discussions with at least one of the player’s representatives about turning himself in. But neither Baker nor Dunbar had done so as of 8:10 p.m. ET.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Please help, we can't be the first team that this happened to?
Or the first team that had a player shoot themselves and derail a super bowl season
Or the first team to have a star pass rusher blow off their hand..
Can we?
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Giants PR out doing damage control already I see. Thanks, Dave.
Nkeal Harry WR
Byron Murphy CB
Rock Ya-Sin CB
Jawaan Taylor OT
Deebo Samuel WR
Cody Ford OT
Greg Little OT
AJ Brown WR
Irv Smith Jr. TE
@AdamSchefter
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3m
A spokesperson for Miramar Police told @BradyHenderson
that there have been discussions with at least one of the player’s representatives about turning himself in. But neither Baker nor Dunbar had done so as of 8:10 p.m. ET.
Baker turning himself in won’t alter the likely outcome here.
What bothered me were the whispers we heard about his poor work ethic and sub optimal attitude.
Now after this bizarre robbery we also hear that he didn't show up for any of the voluntary (Zoom) meetings.
After a rough first year and with a new coach and a new system, you can't even show up for a "sit in front of your computer" meeting???
Good fucking riddance!
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about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Giants PR out doing damage control already I see. Thanks, Dave.
OK Clouseau. Point to his arrests...
Bakers past didn’t suggest armed robbery. You are flat out lying if you claim otherwise.
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Baker they need to fire Gettleman. What an embarrassment.
Fire him for what? For drafting a player that got in trouble? Guess the Pats should have fired Belichick for drafting a murderer?
Jesus Christ sometimes this board is the worst.
Yeah let's put Belichik in the same category as Gettleman. Unbelievable
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Those alone should have been a red flag not to trade up into the first round to take him.
Please help, we can't be the first team that this happened to?
Or the first team that had a player shoot themselves and derail a super bowl season
Or the first team to have a star pass rusher blow off their hand..
Can we?
Was Maurice Clarette still in the league when he was busted for armed robbery?
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Whether he's robbing someone or being unaccountable to the point where a coach (obviously wasn't going to be Shurmur) has to constantly evaluate whether or not he should be a part of the team...that's a guy you want on the team? Trade into the first round for? Right after the Beckham situation?
If we're being honest Baker hasn't flashed the on field thus far to warrant any of that.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Yeah, but there was also talk that he removed the labels from his matress.
Hernandez was actually good though!
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arrested for Armed Robbery?
Please help, we can't be the first team that this happened to?
Or the first team that had a player shoot themselves and derail a super bowl season
Or the first team to have a star pass rusher blow off their hand..
Can we?
Was Maurice Clarette still in the league when he was busted for armed robbery?
If I remember correctly, his life went to total shit once he was excommunicated.
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In comment 14902781 ZogZerg said:
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arrested for Armed Robbery?
Please help, we can't be the first team that this happened to?
Or the first team that had a player shoot themselves and derail a super bowl season
Or the first team to have a star pass rusher blow off their hand..
Can we?
Was Maurice Clarette still in the league when he was busted for armed robbery?
If I remember correctly, his life went to total shit once he was excommunicated.
He was banished from the church?
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Yet! He's still on the loose so there is a chance.
You have to assume that his NFL career is over. At least with the Giants.
Well, falling asleep in meetings will lead to armed robbery.
Obviously.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
Haha, good one.
Unreal, every off season there is always some ridiculous story of a key Giants player fucking up there life, JPP blows hand off in contract year, Jenkins brother murders someone in his house, Baker commits armed robbery and aggravated assault, oh boy, can’t wait for the next one.
The crime of Robbery with a Firearm is a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 9 offense severity ranking under Florida’s Criminal Punishment Code.
If convicted of Robbery with a Firearm, a judge is required to impose a minimum sentence of either the 10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement or 48 months in prison absent grounds to impose a downward departure sentence and can also impose any combination of the following penalties:
Up to life in prison.
Up to life on probation.
Up to $15,000 in fines.
10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement
Under Florida Statute 775.087(2)(a)(1), a person convicted of actually possessing a firearm during the commission of a Robbery with a Firearm, as opposed to being an unarmed accomplice, is subject to being sentenced under Florida’s 10/20/Life statute.
What about the clause if your player commits armed robbery?!
You have to assume that his NFL career is over. At least with the Giants.
He will be on the cowboys, Redskins, or Jets in a few weeks.
The Giants may be able to get this money back. I am not 100% sure how it works but I think any money that has been paid out already is paid out for the books but any guaranteed money not paid out yet may get taken off. Obviously, we'll have to see how this plays out first.
This makes no sense.
Deandre Baker is an utter and complete moron (most likely scenario) or someone is lying to the cops.
The crime of Robbery with a Firearm is a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 9 offense severity ranking under Florida’s Criminal Punishment Code.
If convicted of Robbery with a Firearm, a judge is required to impose a minimum sentence of either the 10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement or 48 months in prison absent grounds to impose a downward departure sentence and can also impose any combination of the following penalties:
Up to life in prison.
Up to life on probation.
Up to $15,000 in fines.
10/20/Life Firearm Enhancement
Under Florida Statute 775.087(2)(a)(1), a person convicted of actually possessing a firearm during the commission of a Robbery with a Firearm, as opposed to being an unarmed accomplice, is subject to being sentenced under Florida’s 10/20/Life statute.
This could easily be kicked up federally-Hobbs Act.
This waste is done.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
You have to assume that his NFL career is over. At least with the Giants.
we sent jenkins away for saying retard. this guy should be cut immediately by those standards
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the obvious, this is a major, major blow.
You have to assume that his NFL career is over. At least with the Giants.
He will be on the cowboys, Redskins, or Jets in a few weeks.
I know you’re likely half joking, but you’d have to think he’s gone for at least half of 2020, no? That might be a conservative length.
Bad choice by Baker to say the least
There is no sense it doing the mental gymnastics on the cap consequences. Baker will either plead guilty to lesser charges or be convicted of the stated charges in the arrest warrant. I'm sure there are plenty of eyewitnesses to corroborate what happened to support the charges. It will be an open/shut case. Baker's only hope is to plead down to lesser charges to limit jail time.
The end result will trigger the forfeiture clause in his contract. It will void future guarantees on salary and allow the Giants to recoup the prorated portion of his signing bonus.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
The drunk petting horses?
Bad choice by Baker to say the least
dude that's a huge job of drafting. is the character stuff. that is ABSOLUTELY on the GM
I didn’t read anything about character issues in Sy’s work on Baker last spring. Someone posted a reference from Walter football though.
What a ridiculous post. Did he do anything in college to suggest this behavior? Missing a few team meetings in college does not equal this but I guess Gettleman should have saw this coming because you don’t like him.
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In comment 14902813 Eric from BBI said:
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the obvious, this is a major, major blow.
You have to assume that his NFL career is over. At least with the Giants.
He will be on the cowboys, Redskins, or Jets in a few weeks.
I know you’re likely half joking, but you’d have to think he’s gone for at least half of 2020, no? That might be a conservative length.
Yeah I was mostly joking.
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
You realize that as of right now, three of those players have a grand total of zero arrests, right? Technically, at this moment, all four - although that will change when Baker goes into custody.
Here's a little bit of hypocrisy though. You know what player many posters have called on the Giants to sign this offseason? Clowney. A player who was going to sit out a season in college, missed team meeting regularly and was at odds with teammates.
How many arrests does he have?
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did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
I didn’t read anything about character issues in Sy’s work on Baker last spring. Someone posted a reference from Walter football though.
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
While this sucks it at least opens up a huge opportunity for Beal, Love, Ballentine, and Holmes.
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In comment 14902830 GiantsFan84 said:
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did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
I didn’t read anything about character issues in Sy’s work on Baker last spring. Someone posted a reference from Walter football though.
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Sy knew, but the bumbling idiot drafting the players did not.
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
Flowers, Beckham, Apple, Baker. Excellent character vetting system.
Since we're talking about two different GMs. Maybe the problem is the senior vice president of player personnel. Good thing he owns the team or people might hold him accountable.
It really should go without saying that Flowers, Beckham, and Apple should not be put in the same discussion as Baker in this situation. Those guys had their own issues, but this guy allegedly tried to have someone murdered. At the very least he's looking to be going away for 5 to 10 years for armed robbery, if not more. That's not comparable to punching a net.
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Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
He might have mentioned some minor stuff but to suggest that Gettleman should have seen this coming is absolutely ridiculous. I remember Sy complimenting the Giants they took Baker even though he had Murphy ranked higher.
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft.
WTF was going through this guy's head? Sounds like he lost some serious coin gambling and he must have lost his shit. But this has a premeditated feel to it.
Did he honestly think there would be no consequences? WTF?
Good thing the Giants drafted a shitload of defensive backs the last couple years, but it’s still a significant blow.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
Well said
If you ignore the character concerns that were reported.
Link - ( New Window )
WTF was going through this guy's head? Sounds like he lost some serious coin gambling and he must have lost his shit. But this has a premeditated feel to it.
Did he honestly think there would be no consequences? WTF?
He is busy blasting his girlfriend in the butt. Where he is going, he'll likely be the one getting blasted.
Can I say his life choice was stupid? /s
Sucks so move on at the position.
if he is a scumbag who wants him on the team we love anyway..
but go ahead blame DG..
cus, he knew
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
Baker and LT. Great comparison. And LT’s problems began years after he got here.
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Baker was the #1 ranked CB last year and considered a steal by many when drafted... there is no way to know how these clowns are going to act when all of a sudden they become millionaires before they earn a cent.
If you ignore the character concerns that were reported.
Which were.....what?
I never heard any.
Anyway, that is the end of that career. Next step - license plates!
That’s on the GM.
Found in footnote on DeAndre Baker's Wikipedia page.
Can't vouch for the accuracy of it.
Link - ( New Window )
That’s on the GM.
He gambled. He lost.
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Baker was the #1 ranked CB last year and considered a steal by many when drafted... there is no way to know how these clowns are going to act when all of a sudden they become millionaires before they earn a cent.
If you ignore the character concerns that were reported.
I'm still waiting for you to list his arrests and off the field incidents.
Skipping a bowl game isn't a red flag. Christian McCaffery and Leonard Fournette are among ones who did.
Funny that Greedy Williams is mentioned above as a player we could have drafted. He also skipped a bowl game and actually had off the field incidents.
If you are going to disqualify players who had questionable work ethic, you can identify at least 5 players in the 1st round each year with those whispers.
How many of those guys go onto commit armed robbery. You are literally acting as if it was a foregone conclusion Baker was going to get arrested and that the GM should have seen it
Incredible isn’t it? We can’t just talk about how stupid Baker is and how he should be held accountable for his actions. Instead some use it to push their agenda.
To shitty teams.
Happens all the time.
In speaking to team sources, they feel that Baker's tape and talent level should have him going in the No. 10-15 range of the first round, but they believe he will slide some because he has off-the-field issues and has not interviewed well with teams during the leadup to the 2019 NFL Draft.
IF the alleged events being reported are essentially correct there is only one person to blame. Baker. We're talking about weapons being pulled and used to commit felonies. No one predicted anything remotely of this nature in his evaluations leading up to the Draft. No one.
From the count I can come up with, over 50 players skipped bowls in the past 5 years. I counted 17 first rounders and stopped with about half the list left:
Last season, more than a dozen players bailed on bowl season including West Virginia quarterback Will Grier, South Carolina wideout Deebo Samuel and Houston's Ed Oliver.
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
LOL - could not agree more. As far as some are concerned, DG is wrong no matter what he does.
What upsets me thinking about all this is we traded up to get him and now we likely have to use premium assets again next spring at CB because I have little expectations of success for Beal and Ballentine. Another hole will be created once he’s inevitably cut to go along with WR, Edge, and LB.
We traded picks for this guy, too.
What we didn't know is that we got a guy with impulse control problems, and that's putting it mildly.
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Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
Incredible isn’t it? We can’t just talk about how stupid Baker is and how he should be held accountable for his actions. Instead some use it to push their agenda.
One more time. There were reported off the field/character concerns. So he was a risk. If you’re willing to take the risk, you have the responsibility if something blows up. Caveat emptor.
A mirror image of our offensive line.
We just can't fix this f***ing unit.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
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Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
Scuzzlebutt : 9:32 pm : link : reply
In comment 14902883 Oscar said:
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Pick up some talented player with an iffy background the chorus around here is that the Giants only want team captains and choir boys and ignore talent. Gettleman took a shot on talent I can’t kill him for it.
Baker seems legitimately stupid (this aside) so that would have been a red flag but they thought he could play.
LOL - could not agree more. As far as some are concerned, DG is wrong no matter what he does.
Cowboys didn't really hit it out of the park with Randy Gregory
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In comment 14902900 DonnieD89 said:
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Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
Meh. No big deal. No reason to be mad, apparently.
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In comment 14902900 DonnieD89 said:
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Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
You are tough. Gettleman even gets discredited for a year he wasn't here!!
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Still am, but he was the 30th pick. Took a chance and missed, it happens.
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
That's why we suck.
And that's why we start thinking about next year's Draft by mid-October.
Are you guys really this fucking stupid? You can't be. This is just an emotional reaction needing to blame someone right?
To the New York Football Giants.
Are you guys really this fucking stupid? You can't be. This is just an emotional reaction needing to blame someone right?
You'd think blaming Baker would be good enough. Did people kill Reese for Plax shooting up his sweatpants? No. Must be we got a ring with him, so that's good work!!
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Agreed. But, Jones & Lawrence are much more crucial from the draft. Those picks will tell the story of the 2019 draft. I hate trading up for a player who will be cut. But, he was the 30th pick.
Flowers was 9th & Apple was 10th. Not the same.
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He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Agreed. But, Jones & Lawrence are much more crucial from the draft. Those picks will tell the story of the 2019 draft. I hate trading up for a player who will be cut. But, he was the 30th pick.
Flowers was 9th & Apple was 10th. Not the same.
30th pick is a first round pick. We also traded up, as you mentioned. Now 1st round picks (and ones that we trade up for) don't matter? I hope the FO doesn't think that way.
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In comment 14902918 Default said:
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In comment 14902900 DonnieD89 said:
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Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
12-36 the last three seasons. The record speaks for itself.
You are tough. Gettleman even gets discredited for a year he wasn't here!!
LMAO...Too funny.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
jFC
Jayron Hosley would never!
Granted, I’d expect more production than 1 shitty rookie season. The trade up annoys me more than the pick itself.
We all know Gettleman is a below average GM, but I don't think he can be blamed for this.
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Just got online and this is what I'm greeted by? Jeez.
Jayron Hosley would never!
Or Jimmy Williams
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He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Agreed. But, Jones & Lawrence are much more crucial from the draft. Those picks will tell the story of the 2019 draft. I hate trading up for a player who will be cut. But, he was the 30th pick.
Flowers was 9th & Apple was 10th. Not the same.
I think you may be underselling how much this is going to hurt. Dave had enough conviction in Baker to trade draft capital in order to acquire him. To me, that means Dave thought he could be a foundational type piece to what he’s trying to build here. Now, that’s all going to be gone and what is created is another hole to fill with premium assets in the near future. I was hoping to fill what should be a top 10 pick next year with a WR or Edge rusher. Now we need to add CB to the mix.
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Just got online and this is what I'm greeted by? Jeez.
Jayron Hosley would never!
Because it's so out of character for Tech players? 😂
Granted, I’d expect more production than 1 shitty rookie season. The trade up annoys me more than the pick itself.
Fair enough. The pick annoys me just as much as the trade up. You have to hit on first round picks.
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please list the off the field concerns.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
For starters, Hernandez had multiple failed drug tests in college. And, were the Pats killed for drafting him, or did Hernandez's crimes stand on their own?
You can't even name the red flags that Baker had. I pointed out the concerns - none that were technically off-field.
Cap ramifications for cutting him are...?
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In comment 14902850 GiantsFan84 said:
prove it or it didn't happen , plain and simple
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Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
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In comment 14902850 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
Sy mentioned the character red flags repeatedly about Baker. This is not news
Here is Sy’s write up:
DeAndre Baker – Georgia – 5’11/193
Grade: 83
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*Another safe pick here that may have a limited upside, but at this position you just want reliable. That is Baker is a nutshell. I love the competitive spirit, the swagger he shows on the outside. Do I trust him against a Michael Thomas on an island? Probably not. But at the end of the day that isn’t the job of a #1 corner on most teams. He can fit in to any coverage scheme and any role, right away.
NFL Comparison: Tre’Davious White / BUF
it wasn't in his write-up but he mentioned it, i'm not making this up
prove it or it didn't happen , plain and simple
Cap ramifications for cutting him are...?
Over 7 according to sporttrac
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Coming out of the woodwork after the emergence of this incident. That is being Baker himself acting out this crime and the morons on this board that claim Gettleman should have known that Baker would do such a crime. Unfucking Believable!
So no GM should take responsibility for busts?
So Reese should have known Flowers would suck?
Please tell me how Dave Gettleman should’ve known that Baker was going to commit a crime? There were no criminal records of Baker, prior to this incident. How the hell should get them in now? You have an agenda on Dave Gettleman and you often post everything that goes wrong with the Giants and attempt to transpose it on to Gettleman. Your argument is fallacious when it comes to Such an incident as this. Was it the Cleveland Browns GM’s fault for drafting Ernie Davis and after Davis being diagnosed with cancer? How did the Cleveland Browns management know that? He shown no signs of cancer at that time. Same would apply to Dave Gettleman with this situation. There were no criminal records indicating that Baker would perform such an act. If you can give me a decent argument, you may convince me. Otherwise, you have no argument.
Link - ( New Window )
The reliability within the Baker household was especially important in Miami, where distraction and destruction shadow the area like a defensive back in pursuit of his man.
But along with those soon-to-be collegiate players were others who had brushes with the law or brushes with death.
“You're coming up in an area where maybe a couple of times a month – and I'm not exaggerating – somebody you go to school with or somebody you play football with just got killed,” said Eddie Brown, who coached Baker in his senior year at Miami Northwestern Senior High School. “As a young man dealing with those kind of things, it's major to have someone you can lean on, have someone you can pick up the phone and call, have somewhere where you know you're going to get a good meal or go somewhere you know where you're going to be safe. All those things were provided to Deandre. That kept him afloat.”
Baker’s family enabled him to avoid the pitfalls of the city while urging him to stay grounded and strive for what he desired. He said he understood around the time he was in sixth grade that his physical gifts and knack for making plays could be the ticket to a better education and an improved situation.
“In Miami, football is the only way out,” Baker said.
Link - ( New Window )
@JjenkzLockdown
Praying for the Lil homies..
@JjenkzLockdown
Praying for the Lil homies..
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
From what we know about Judge, have to figure there’s very little chance Baker didn’t just earn his walking papers, first rounder or not.
Better to lose him now then go through the whole process of waisting years on a first round pick because of the investment.
Ummm. What?
@JjenkzLockdown
Praying for the Lil homies..
Does he mean the victims? Or the (alleged) perpetrators? Or the bodies in his rumpus room?
His rookie season was disappointing but he was still a damn sight better than Ballentine or Beal.
He was picked before us. But that’s neither here nor there, we needed an OT.
There also could be issues with getting cap relief on guaranteed money if they release before a guilty plea, but I would think not. If they forego releasing him with a statement about waiting until the legal process plays out, that is the likely reason.
The best thus far
“I’m a good guy. Good character. I’m chill” - ( New Window )
What a horrible player and pick.
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Like pretend to pee in the end zone.
Still butt hurt huh??
What's butt hurt about that? Gettleman was the one preaching culture.
JFC, your intelligence is even worse than your attempt at humor.
As do greater than symbols, periods and exclamation points
There was a warning sign of being a hard to coach turd. And then he turned out to be a hard to coach turd.
What a mess.
Love can play outside. I also agree that it's a great opportunity for Beal and Ballentine. Holmes is a slot CB in the NFL.
Baker's attitude concerns should have been more than enough at a minimum to convince the Giants not to trade three draft picks for him. As someone said, they also missed or minimized Lauletta's driving issues.
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Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
I’m just wondering what the psychology is here that your first and only reaction to the news that the Giants have wasted yet another first round draft pick (that they also traded valuable assets to move up to acquire) is to run to this message board and defend David Gettleman’s honor against all comers. Seriously, are you Dave Gettleman? Are you related to him? Is he your friend? It’s just bizarre at this point and a little creepy.
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In comment 14902810 lax counsel said:
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Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
I’m just wondering what the psychology is here that your first and only reaction to the news that the Giants have wasted yet another first round draft pick (that they also traded valuable assets to move up to acquire) is to run to this message board and defend David Gettleman’s honor against all comers. Seriously, are you Dave Gettleman? Are you related to him? Is he your friend? It’s just bizarre at this point and a little creepy.
And for the record, I don’t blame Gettleman for this. It’s just bad luck for the team. The player was god awful last year, but I’ll accept that he still could have developed into a good corner for the sake of argument. The reason I made fun of you was that I’m scrolling through this thread shortly after it starts and you are here obviously frothing at the mouth just waiting for someone to take a shot at Gettleman so you can jump on them. It’s weird.
@rydunleavy
·
2h
All the details from police on #Giants DeAndre Baker charged with 4 counts of armed robbery, 4 counts of aggravated assault.
FatMan in Charlotte : 7:54 pm : link : reply
two for Gettleman. He also missed driver anger management issues with Lauletta!
Fucking blind asswipe!
Then the moron brigade showed up and wasn't focused on Baker's acts, but on how the GM could have possiblyu ignored such blatant signs that he had the next Al Capone in his ranks.
I'm not defending Gettleman, I'm calling the people out, like your idiotic ass, who want to pin it on him instead of Baker.
Nothing redeeming about the guy, how can you defend the pick?
This young guy with a multimillion $$ contract stole some watches at gunpoint at a party?
Why?
@rydunleavy
·
2h
All the details from police on #Giants DeAndre Baker charged with 4 counts of armed robbery, 4 counts of aggravated assault.
This young guy with a multimillion $$ contract stole some watches at gunpoint at a party?
Why?
I’m Guessing they were gambling and guys tried to pull one over on the nfl guys.
I'll say this (and I'm a Gettleman fan), it's one thing to take a character risk that falls into your lap, it's another thing to trade up for one.
This makes no sense.
Deandre Baker is an utter and complete moron (most likely scenario) or someone is lying to the cops.
My guess is that he lost at cards or some other gambling game and thought he was cheated, so he and his fellow NFL'er returned the next day to attempt to win back their losses and perhaps felt cheated for a second time and so upturned the table and took valuables at the point of a gun.
This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to fit.
You could be wrong. Sounds like an illegal card game and he got mad at losing . Fucking moron. Shit attitude and this now. Cut his ass. Period.
Also even worse he probably wasn’t wearing hiss PPE and social distancing which is even worse than pulling a gun these days
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In comment 14902810 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Defending the Giants front office right now than the reality that yet another high Giants pick will likely not pan out and more importantly committed a violent crime.
No wonder the Giants got away with 2013-present. To apply an old Jets saying to our beloved Big Blue...Same old Giants!!
Well, you could just direct anger at the guy who is actually accused of doing something. I know that means your other pitchfork might go unused, but your probably broke the shit out of it a long time ago.
What's actually incredible is that you act as if the front office is the issue here.
I’m just wondering what the psychology is here that your first and only reaction to the news that the Giants have wasted yet another first round draft pick (that they also traded valuable assets to move up to acquire) is to run to this message board and defend David Gettleman’s honor against all comers. Seriously, are you Dave Gettleman? Are you related to him? Is he your friend? It’s just bizarre at this point and a little creepy.
It’s an embedded response of certain posters to come here and automatically defend the front office for every move (regardless of the Baker action), specifically one member of the front office, before anyone even ventures a critique of an organization that’s been around 49-73 since 2013 and has accumulated the worst record in the NFL over the last 3 seasons. I guess roster construction doesn’t fall under the duty of the front office at all and stating the obvious - this organization has been horrible at every level for nearly a decade- makes you part of the “moron brigade.” Alrighty then...
Not minimizing what the kid did but kids who survive living in neighborhoods like that are damaged. It's analogous to tours in a combat zone and these are kids going through this.
We are shocked because the kid had so much to lose. Demons don't give a fuck about what you have. The main thing that separates this kid from many of the others is he was able to cash in on his athletic ability for a while. You'd be amazed at the number of athletes with professional ability who fall by the wayside.
this is my wild ass theory with 0 info - Judge came to town along with a bunch of UGA/SEC people and they knew Baker was a huge pain in the ass and they said "how did you trade up for that guy last year". Obviously you aren't picking a 1st round pick based solely on what an area scout says, but I do think you are relying on that area scout to do the background check to some degree and talk to the people at the program since they are making the trips and anyone can put on a good face once it gets to a combine interview.
A high 2nd round pick, 4th and a 5th for Baker.
A 3rd rounder for Beal.
A 4th rounder for Love.
A 6th rounder for Ballentine.
A 4th rounder for Holmes.
So, that is a huge FA deal and 7 draft picks in the last 2 drafts on guys who were cornerbacks. And unless one of those guys emerges, it is still a huge question mark heading into 2020. Expect another high pick spent on CB next year (assuming these accusations hold true)
He then picks a knucklehead in Lauletta, explicitly tasks Janoris Jenkins as the teacher and mentor of a young crop of players, and drafts a guy in Baker with on the field concerns.
The Giants seem to have a little bit of trouble weeding out bad actors. This is two straight GMs with some trouble in this area.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
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Still am, but he was the 30th pick. Took a chance and missed, it happens.
He's a first round pick. Flowers in 2015, Apple in 2016, and now Baker in 2019. That's nothing from three out of your last 5 1st round draft picks.
Can't expect a team to be consistently good when you get nothing 3 out of your 5 last 1st round picks.
Just as a point of contention the last five 1st round picks (not including this year), are Daniel Jones, Dexter Lawrence, DeAndre Baker, Saquon Barkley, and Evan Engram.
Eli Apple (2016) was the year prior to Engram, and Ereck Flowers (2015) the year prior to that.
I'm not a DG hater nor a DG defender. The truth is, he has had his hits and misses, and on some things I think he's done well, but...he does deserve criticism here. It's not that you're going to see an armed robbery coming, but when you have a player with a character flag like Baker had coming into the draft, and he did, you don't trade your 4th and 5th rounders (#132 and #142) to move up 7 spots and give that guy $10.5 million dollars with $9 million guaranteed with the following players playing the same position on the board still:
Player------------Overall Pick # Drafted
Byron Murphy--#33
Rock Ya-Sin--#34
Sean Murphy-Bunting--#39 (All-Rookie Team for the Bucs taken after Giants 2nd round pick at #37 they traded up from).
Trayvon Mullen--#40
JoeJuan Williams--#45
Greedy Williams--#46
Lonnie Johnson--#54
So look, we can acknowledge there is no crystal ball here for DG while also acknowledging that trading up from #37 for a guy with reported character issues and work ethic issues...with the talent that was on the board at the position...was a painful mistake. Again, they gave up #37, #132, and #142 for Baker...and took him ahead of all those other guys, not to mention the other talents that were there on the board like A.J. Brown, who I had as my #1 WR in the draft.
You can't just say that character doesn't fit into the calculus, and he didn't have to rob a card game to have been a poor investment because of that poor character. You're falling asleep in team meetings probably because you're partying all night and not taking your profession seriously. You're not participating in voluntary team meetings over a computer, from your own home...because of what good reason?
You can't just say that it's unreasonable for DG to see what would happen with Baker and then just whitewash any responsibility for the heavy investment he made, even if it's true that he couldn't foresee an armed robbery in Baker's future. The point is, he didn't need to...the investment to trade up was too much for a character flag, especially one without elite physical traits for the position (lack of elite speed and average size) with what was on the board.
I've defended DG before and will do so again on Saquon and Will Hernandez, and give him kudos for conviction on Jones. I wouldn't have taken Andrew Thomas but hey, I give him the benefit of the doubt.
But I never got that pick at #30 last year because it was the trade up that never made sense to do that. Just wait until 37 and get one of the other corners, or whatever other very good talent falls to you.
knuckleheads is one thing - this is violent potentially deadly behavior.
we drafted a kid about ten years ago everyone raved about his character because he helped take care of his handicapped brother. guy would up going to prison along with his girlfriend for beating a child to death. hard to tell what's going on inside some of tehs ids head
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was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
We truly are cursed. Every off season it is something. Chad Jones destroys his legs in a gruesome car wreck, JPP blows his hand off, Ballentine gets shot after draft night with his best friend getting killed next to him, Jenkins brother kills a man in his house, now Baker with this. Always one step forward two steps back with this franchise, just can’t get out of our own way. It’s pathetic and sad, yet all you can do is laugh cause it’s such a comedy of errors.
The longer this goes without him turning himself in I fear he may do something even more desperate and stupid. What a waste and a shame.
The longer this goes without him turning himself in I fear he may do something even more desperate and stupid. What a waste and a shame.
I thought the same too. This may not be over yet.
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was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
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4 victims of armed robbery and aggravated assault with a weapon with multiple witnesses having given statements and signed affidavits.
The longer this goes without him turning himself in I fear he may do something even more desperate and stupid. What a waste and a shame.
I thought the same too. This may not be over yet.
Giants must have more information on this then what’s being reported. If the inside info is bad, you’d expect them to release him tomorrow. Similar to when the Pats cut Hernandez the same day he received murder charge.
This is Sy's write-up RIGHT AFTER the 2019 draft on "what he would've done":
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=582854
Deandre Baker � CB/Georgia � 5�11/193
Summary: Baker was a three year starter for the Bulldogs that progressively improved as a prospect from the beginning of 2017. The two-time all SEC defender (1st Team in 2018) brings the kind of confidence and swagger that can take on the numerous challenges of playing cornerback in the NFL. He can be left alone on an island and stick with anyone on all levels of the route tree as well as make plays on the ball like a receiver. His issues can be correctable, mainly the technique-based and mental ones. The lack of power presence can be an issue at times but in a league where contact is allowed less and less in coverage, the corners that can get the job done via instincts, agility, and speed stand out a bit more.
*I was surprised by the trade up, and I was surprised by the selection. Before I get in to why, know that I had a top 15 overall grade on him and I think it was a great value-grab. What surprised me was the fact he didn�t receive a lot of love from the UGA coaching staff when it came to character and work ethic. In addition, it was public knowledge he didn�t interview very well. While that is all subjective and it shouldn�t be a make or break, with how NYG has been trying to steer this �team culture� idea back on the straight and narrow, a trade up for Baker was puzzling. In addition, there were a handful of corners there that fit the similar grade. Was it necessary to trade up? I�m not sure but I do understand why. They had picks to burn, Baker was their top guy that probably fits the scheme more than the others, and there is one more thing that may go unnoticed by some. Drafting Baker in round 1 allows for the 5th year team option to be added to the rookie contract so that if he does indeed become a big time player, they won�t have to pay him big time money until his sixth season. Baker will likely compete for a starting spot opposite Janoris Jenkins with Sam Beal and if I had to pick a winner right now, it is Baker. He is a competitor that shows up on game day and plays well in the highest-pressure situations. Really good fit and a really good pick.
WHO I WOULD HAVE TAKEN
Byron Murphy � CB/Washington - 5�11/190
Summary: Third year sophomore entry. Murphy missed 7 games in 2017 with a broken foot but came back with a 1st Team All Pac 12, 2nd Team All American performance. Despite the lack of game�experience, Murphy proved to be one of the more NFL-ready corners in the class with his top shelf athletic ability and ball tracking. He does play a little light which will need to change in the NFL, but his aggressive style and fast twitch reactions make him scary to throw near. If the technique can get cleaned up and he can improve in zone coverage, he has starting corner written all over him.
*The need for more talent at corner was obvious. With NYG back on the clock, Murphy was my top available player and because I like the upside and character with him more so than Baker, I leaned in his direction even though he may struggle to handle bigger, more physical receivers more so. Murphy is Mr. Smooth out there with the anticipation and reaction I always look for from the position. He screams �dependable� every time I watch him and I love who this kid is off the field.
Wasn't an offseason thing, but you forgot Plax. That one cost the Giants a super bowl.
Of course it's not JUST the Giants (why did Vick have to fight dogs?), but they've sure had their fair share.
Plus he wasn’t that good last year. Had attitude problems.
Now it’s been revealed that hr hasn’t participated in any of the virtual meetings?!?!
How is he not a bad pick? How’s DG blameless?
Quote:
was unexpected. Who would of thought character concerns would lead to armed robbery..and doing it in the middle of a global pandemic? Teams gamble on talent with ‘character concerns’ a lot, The Giants have had really exceptionally bad luck with it lately. I think blasting Gettleman is a little overboard but he does ultimately have to take responsibility. Baker made those choices and acted that way, not Gettleman, so frustration lands on the person who committed the act to me.
That's what kills me. Only the freaking Giants would have a millionaire 1st-round draft pick robbing people at gun point during a pandemic.
Josh Jacobs 87.1
Nick Bosa 86.7
Dexter Lawrence 76.1
Marquise Brown 70.8
Jeff Simmons 70.4
Josh Allen 68.4
Darnell Savage 68.0
Dwayne Haskins 67.6
Quinnen Williams 67.4
N'Keal Harry 66.6
Chris Lindstrom 66.6
Daniel Jones 65.7
Ed Oliver 65.6
Christian Wilkins 64.4
Kyler Murray 64.2
Brian Burns 63.7
Devin Bush 62.9
Clelin Ferrell 62.2
TJ Hockenson 60.5
Montez Sweat 60.2
Andre Dillard 59.7
Tytus Howard 59.4
Garrett Bradbury 58.0
Rashan Gary 54.1
Kaleb McGary 53.0
Noah Fant 52.0
Devin White 50.6
LJ Collier 48.6
Deandre Baker 48.4
Jerry Tillery 35.5
Giants must have more information on this then what’s being reported. If the inside info is bad, you’d expect them to release him tomorrow. Similar to when the Pats cut Hernandez the same day he received murder charge.
The longer this goes without him turning himself in I fear he may do something even more desperate and stupid. What a waste and a shame.
Yep. As long as he's done here and he gets cut when it suits the Giants the best, I'm okay with it.
Agreed though. It'd be a little bit easier to swallow if we didn't trade up for him. A second rounder flaming out...it happens. Not ideal, but not out of the ordinary. Trading up for a guy who will be out of the league after a year? That hurts.
Baker's done here. Judge won't tolerate this crap. I hope someone like Beal or Ballentine can step up because Lord knows we're going to need them.
What a worthless piece of shit. Why do we always get stained with these cunts?
Who the fuck mentioned CTE? Jesus Christ.
And BTW, who says it's not a real thing? Are you a doctor? Scientist?
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please list the off the field concerns.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
No need to panic yet
Looking back, it is annoying when you see the alternative players we could of got had we stood firm in the second round and not traded away our other picks as well.
5 to 10 or so probably about right.
Sorry about your missed career, DeAndre.
1)Don't draft someone who didn't have a last great season in college(William Joseph)
2)Don't draft someone who interviews poorly.(Eli Apple)
3)Don't draft someone with work ethic issues.(Deandre Baker)
Made it, Ma! Top o' the world!
Lot of young players the Giants have accumulated have a great opportunity in front of them.
This sucks. The NFC east is loaded with WRs. Do I think last year's secondary is ready to take the next step? I don't know. They looked lost last year. I usually don't count on current year draftees to make an immediate impact as they have to adjust to the speed of the game. All this, with no real off-season. Things seem bleak. Coaches have their work cut out.
The guy committed armed robbery, but he did not have any off field issues that suggested something like this was only a matter of time.
Screw Baker. But also the people acting like they saw this coming need to get over themselves.
If work ethic issues are a predictor of off-field criminal activity, than the Giants have had a few mass murderers on the team in recent years
Made it, Ma! Top o' the world!
Thanks for the laugh.
This team, dating back to Parcells having to quietly get LT out of police custody/jail, must have a criminal attorney on retainer.
A necessity!
And for those that have paid attention, Gettleman has gotten players that the coaches have asked for. Look at all the ex-Cardinals and ex-Vikings and ex-Packers that Gettleman has brought in. Yes, he is part of that process and, yes, that should fall on his shoulders but that is not how the team is run. I will put money down that the last coaching staff was banging on the table to draft Baker. I mean if you cannot see then difference in drafts between Shurmur and Judge and the guys they like then I don't know what to tell you.
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Made it, Ma! Top o' the world!
Thanks for the laugh.
Times like this, ya gotta laugh or cry. I'd rather laugh.
This could be a blessing in disguise. Except for the wasted draft pick, I'll bet they could get a UDFA CB that could better stats than that.
Wrong.
It turns out there were indeed warning signs about Baker’s maturity that Gettleman and the Giants missed. Draft analyst Tony Pauline of Pro Football Network reported on several prior to the 2019 scouting combine
“Sources were telling me he was not taking combine training seriously,” Pauline told The Post. “He was kind of an entitled type of kid, he expected things to come very easy to him, he didn’t look good in drills. And then if you go back, and you look at his 2019 combine, he was a huge disappointment.
“This year when I was at the Senior Bowl practices, the last day of practice, I was talking to some of the Giant people, they didn’t tell me he was a bad guy or anything, they said he’s dumb as dirt. He struggled taking instruction in coaching, he basically likes to do it his own way.”
Baker was dressed down by teammates during his rookie season for his laissez-faire preparation. Pauline had Baker as his sixth-best corner.
“I would have never taken that guy in the first round. Never,” Pauline said.
Forget about the arrest for a second. Nothing in the scouting process could predict that. However, based on the content from the Senior Bowl, why would Dave still go get him in the first? Stuff like what the NYG people said about Baker should almost disqualify him if I were making decisions from a pure football perspective. That you can certainly lay at Dave’s feet.
That is where the forfeiture clause comes into play. He is obviously in violation of it whether he is convicted on the original charges or pleads to lesser counts. As you indicated, the future salary guarantees will be voided. And under the forfeiture clause, the team will be able to pursue the repayment of the amortized signing bonus. I can't imagine the Player's Association will defend/represent Baker in any grievance.
You had mentioned in an earlier comment re: cap relief that it is a matter of timing. If they release him prior to the process under the forfeiture clause, then there won't be cap relief. If they retain his rights while pursuing repayment, then there will. The balance equation is whether the cap relief is worth the PR of retaining an accused criminal's rights or whether they rid themselves of Baker and worry about getting money in Mara's pocket at a later date.
Dexter Lawrence was suspended for a bowl game for PED use.
By the way - Baker was such a well-known character concern that he made the list of the prospects identified as having red flags.
Oh wait. He didn't. Lawrence did though
What - no Baker?? - ( New Window )
Guy was caught using PED's and suspended for his team's most crucial games.
1) We traded a 3rd and a 5th to move up just 7 slots to get him. It felt to me like Gettleman was a little trigger-happy with the trade because he a) had so many picks on his hands, and b) missed out on trading up for Josh Allen earlier in the draft. But we really could have used that 3rd rounder now in hindsight.
2) There were 3 or 4 corners all of similar talent/value available at the time, and we were picking just 7 picks later, so I did not feel that CB wast the position to trade up for at THAT time if we were going to trade up.
3) DG had talked about "cleaning up the culture of the locker-room" and Baker had known character concerns. We'd cut/traded much more talented players with barely any "attitude problems" for the sake of the culture, then turn around and trade up for a guy with character concerns. Just weird.
4) Baker was known for his great skills in man-coverage. Some said he had the talent to become a "shutdown" man corner. So of course the Giants decide to play him in zone the entire year and he sucked. If you really know your DC's system how do you trade up for a corner who who doesn't fit said system. Just surprising that there seemed to be a clear disconnect between DG and Bettcher on that front.
So yeah, I was actually in favor of keeping DG another year, but still-- let's not forget the guy is 8-24 as a GM here, and let's wait until this team has an actual winning season on his watch before we give him high marks for a "great" off-season. He's done a number of things since he got here that are completely inexplicable, and I don't think this is fully a "hindsight is 20/20" situation with Baker. A lot of us saw these holes in DG's logic when he made the move to trade up and draft Baker and a year later much of those criticisms have been proven right.
Giants traded a 4th and a 5th, not a 3rd.
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Forget about the arrest for a second. Nothing in the scouting process could predict that. However, based on the content from the Senior Bowl, why would Dave still go get him in the first? Stuff like what the NYG people said about Baker should almost disqualify him if I were making decisions from a pure football perspective. That you can certainly lay at Dave’s feet.
Guy was caught using PED's and suspended for his team's most crucial games.
I didn’t like the pick at the time for that very reason. However, since he’s been here, albeit only a year, he’s been a solid player and teammate from all accounts. Hopefully he stays like that.
Based on what exactly?
I have no doubt. Someone mentioned that it was Shurmur, but the draft and FA last year catered to getting Bettcher his Boys.
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In comment 14902927 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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please list the off the field concerns.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
As soon as I’m privy to the confidential information that made up the character concerns noted by the scouts, I’ll let you know.
A lot of posters wanted to sign Clowney this offseason. A guy who had huge red flags in college about work ethic. I have my own thoughts on how he'd be looked at as a Giant, yet that doesn't keep people who say he's the best EDGE player out there and we'd be negligent for not signing him.
What we should all agree on is that Baker's whispers in college didn't suggest he'd rob people at gun point. The fact there isn't agreement on that shows how biased many are here and will use whatever incidents they can to blame others, some more than the player himself.
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about Baker's past. There were attitude concerns, not off the field concerns. He skipped a bowl game and he was absent during some film sessions and was combative with certain teammates. He did not have arrests or off the field incidents.
Last season, there were reports of him falling asleep in team meetings. Again - nothing illegal.
Don't exaggerate this to where it was evident to anyone with two eyes that Baker was headed into the life of an armed gunman
Those alone should have been a red flag not to trade up into the first round to take him.
Exactly!
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In comment 14902956 jeff57 said:
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In comment 14902927 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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please list the off the field concerns.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
As soon as I’m privy to the confidential information that made up the character concerns noted by the scouts, I’ll let you know.
Or maybe you should at least have some sort of clue what the concerns were before posting 5-6 times that Baker had significant red flags that were "well known". Now, I guess they aren't so well known. In fact confidential?
Dexter Lawrence was suspended for a bowl game for PED use.
By the way - Baker was such a well-known character concern that he made the list of the prospects identified as having red flags.
Oh wait. He didn't. Lawrence did though What - no Baker?? - ( New Window )
Defending one character concern draft pick by Gettleman by listing another character concern draft pick by Gettleman.
That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. let’s see if it works out for him.
You’re an embarrassment to the web ... get a new name.
If the charges against Baker are ultimately dropped or he pleads to a reduced charge(s) and doesn't go to jail, is he still welcome on this team?
Gettleman is responsible for drafting him, true. So what?
Does that mean DG failed to look in his crystal ball to see that Baker would be a criminal(alleged)?
The bold strategy here is speculating that the GM should have forseen this or that the signs were all there to say this was likely.
I don't expect you to grasp that though. It is easier to say that the GM made a bad pick and had the info to indicate it was likely to be a bad pick.
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but I think Betcher is the one who was pounding the table for him.
Gettleman is responsible for drafting him, true. So what?
Does that mean DG failed to look in his crystal ball to see that Baker would be a criminal(alleged)?
I am just stating that Betcher is the one who was very high on him and that yes Dave is responsible for the Baker pick and all picks. That is the way it works.
Yeah I was just thinking of that. At this point nothing they can do about Baker. But cannot let this type of thing happen again.
Hopefully with all the college coaching connections the new staff has, they’ll be more able to pick up on these types of head cases than scouts would. At least he’ll be out of the locker room and won’t be taking reps from someone more deserving.
If the charges against Baker are ultimately dropped or he pleads to a reduced charge(s) and doesn't go to jail, is he still welcome on this team?
I think the only scenario where he is welcomed back is if the charges get dropped due to a case of mistaken identity. Since that’s highly unlikely, he’ll never be back.
An article with his post draft comments. Sounds like standard coach talk nothing stands out to me
Link - ( New Window )
While nothing is definitive, the speculation is easily made. They came out immediately and said he was the best cover guy in the draft. That fit Bettcher's style of defense. Now, before people go crazy and say why did he play so much zone the answer is easy. You have to. You have to mix it up. Every defense plays both zone and man. Also, you don't make defensive calls based on just one person. We had injuries all over the place last year and if you don't have the horses to man up then it is pick your poison.
The second glaring thing to me is that the coaching staff NEVER benched him. No matter how many blown assignments, or lackadaisical play, or not taking to coaching reports we saw, etc. he was always on the field and it was pissing off teammates hence them calling him out. That's extremely frustrating on players and the team as a whole. So what was the reason for not benching him? It looks to me that the staff wanted him and were willing to let him work through those issues.
This doesn't exonerate Gettleman from the responsibility of the pick. What I am saying is that more goes into this than one person handing in a card. And NOBODY saw this happening. Imo, looking at individual draft picks will suit anybody's argument. You have to look at the whole. And as a whole since Gettleman has been here has been pretty damn good to me. If anybody was expecting him to bat 1.000 then you'll have a 100% of disappointment with any GM.
Stupid comment.
The bold strategy here is speculating that the GM should have forseen this or that the signs were all there to say this was likely.
I don't expect you to grasp that though. It is easier to say that the GM made a bad pick and had the info to indicate it was likely to be a bad pick.
How about just saying the GM made a bad pick and leaving it at that?
But by all accounts everybody knew he was a knucklehead of the highest order. Knuckleheads do stupid things.
Giants own guys saying he is dumb as dirt? How can you defend this in any way?
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In comment 14903189 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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but I think Betcher is the one who was pounding the table for him.
Gettleman is responsible for drafting him, true. So what?
Does that mean DG failed to look in his crystal ball to see that Baker would be a criminal(alleged)?
I am just stating that Betcher is the one who was very high on him and that yes Dave is responsible for the Baker pick and all picks. That is the way it works.
Ok, I took it wrong. Thanks
and I would have no issue getting rid of him tonight
but please lets find out a few facts first
Nope. No way. Did you even read the police report?
IMO, it doesn't matter where you fall on the DG-criticism/defense spectrum - this is a bad sequence of events for the Giants that DG has a hand in. I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture.
It's ok to acknowledge that DG fucked up on this one. I'm sure he'd like to have it back even if no one could reasonably expect him to have seen this coming.
That means that authorities are looking for him.
This is like an episode of Bad Boys.
For his family sake, let's hope he doesn't do something even more stupid then this.
It's just a formality now. His NFL career is over. Unless the entire thing was manufactured in spite, which is unlikely as he is "on the run" , he's going to be in jail and his life is basically thrown away.
You'll see him in your dreams
He'll appear out of nowhere but
He ain't what he seems...
You're one microscopic cog
In his catastrophic plan
Designed and directed by his...
Reid Right Hand - ( New Window )
If the charges against Baker are ultimately dropped or he pleads to a reduced charge(s) and doesn't go to jail, is he still welcome on this team?
I'm not for cutting him at all. The story is too insane to be legit. It implies that Baker and Dunbar planned a robbery in broad daylight that would 100% get them arrested and their NFL contracts voided.
The story is illogical, so I'll wait on throwing Baker to the wolves.
If the charges against Baker are ultimately dropped or he pleads to a reduced charge(s) and doesn't go to jail, is he still welcome on this team?
Fuck no.
Having a poor work ethic doesn't tell you anything about someone potentially being a pocket gangster. They are unrelated. But there is some responsibility here for drafting a guy whose start to his NFL career didn't seem to be on a good trajectory.
This is a results oriented business, and it looks like the judgment here is that Baker was a bad pick. How predictable that was fans can argue. But it will still almost certainly go down in the books as a bad pick.
Blame them for the robbery, no.
Blame him for making a terrible pick, absolutely
But his attitude at camp which was on video? That stuff did not build confidence that he understood what success looked like or was very mature. I think that is on DG.
In any case, the roster's level of talent, we'll see how it shakes out. But another poor season rests on DG's shoulders, as this is "his" guy flaming out. If they have another below .500 season, I want him gone.
“So DeAndre, let’s say you’re at a party back home in the spring before year 2 with another NFL player. You just so happen to be carrying an automatic weapon. You get upset at losing some significant money in a card game and the shit is about to hit the fan. How do you react?“
Doesn't matter what you inherited, doesn't matter that one of the owners meddles in picking players. It's just wins and loses.
If Baker turned out to be a HOF Gettleman would have gotten all the credit and took a victory lap. The fact that he turned out to be a guy who had attitude problems and a criminal is 100% on his record.
The fact that the Giants whiffed so badly on another 1st round pick, one they traded and used 3 picks for, is also on the Mara brothers because after Flowers, Beckham and Apple there's a serious problem in how the Giants vet players and obviously it hasn't been fixed.
IMO, it doesn't matter where you fall on the DG-criticism/defense spectrum - this is a bad sequence of events for the Giants that DG has a hand in. I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture.
It's ok to acknowledge that DG fucked up on this one. I'm sure he'd like to have it back even if no one could reasonably expect him to have seen this coming.
If you are talking to me don't confuse me defending Gettleman with defending the pick. My point was made above that if you look at any one pick from any GM you can fit whatever argument you want. What I am saying is that overall Gettleman has done a good job. I wasn't crazy with the selection of Baker at all. However, as a coach wouldn't you love working with Gettleman? I would. He has made it a point to get the coaches the players that fit what they want to do. The drawback of that is when things don't go right then who gets the blame?. With Reese it was Coughlin. TC took the blame first. Then after that didn't work it was Reese. This is kind of like Gilbride's offense. When it works it is amazing (collaboration) but when it doesn't it looks like a dumpster fire.
I think the marriage of Gettleman and Judge is what will make this team. I like how Judge hinted that there are disagreements and we saw the players that were brought in this year in the draft. High character, hard working players. I do think Gettleman has an eye for talent and if you blend those two together I think well see some very positive, tangible results.
Was it Accorsi's fault that JPP blew up his hand? Did their scouting know he was that much of a dumb-ass?
Raise your hand if you thought OJ Simpson's life would have turned out the way it has. Or if you thought a guy like Mike Vick who had a 100M Nike contract would get caught betting on dog fights for $1000.
PLAYERS DO REALLY DUMB SHIT ALL THE TIME. Sometimes there are blatant red flags during the scouting process (Lawrence Phillips). Sometimes there aren't. Sometimes the red flags are wrong (Randy Moss). Teams supposedly do their homework on all the incidents. But they can still get it wrong.
IF the Giants knew he was dumb and drafted him anyway, that's on them. But they could NOT have known Baker would do THIS.
This act and the consequences for it is 100% on Baker. Sadly, the Giants just end up paying for it.
I think with Judge on board, the chances of drafting "dumb players" will decrease. But it still won't be perfect.
Nothing to see here
When these kinds of incidents are reported, do the GM's usually take the brunt of the shit? Do the teams even? Do the Pats take crap from having Hernandez on their roster? Were the teams who drafted or signed Josh Gordon said to make bad moves or did most realize Gordon was the problem? Did the Panthers come under fire for drafting Rae Carruth? Did the Chiefs come under fire for having a guy who shoots himself outside their facilities?
Baker is accused of a ridiculous event and many's first reaction was "Gettleman fucked up again".
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HAHAHA idiots. Only on BBI.
Blame them for the robbery, no.
Blame him for making a terrible pick, absolutely
No, don’t go mixing people words. Most of this thread is blaming our GM for taking a player that would commit a crime and claiming he wasn’t properly vetted because there were so many red flags, apparently.
Well they red flags seem to be the typical red flags that a lot of players have coming out - how many of those players go down the path amid armed robbery?
Be mad at the player, he’s the fucking idiot. Apply this logic to your own life - if you fuck up is it ok to blame your parents or should you take responsibility for your actions?
+1
Just think a little.
GMs get lauded when they pick guys who become all-pros, and they get criticized when they pick guys that become non-factors. That's the job description.
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In comment 14903237 Saquads26 said:
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HAHAHA idiots. Only on BBI.
Blame them for the robbery, no.
Blame him for making a terrible pick, absolutely
No, don’t go mixing people words. Most of this thread is blaming our GM for taking a player that would commit a crime and claiming he wasn’t properly vetted because there were so many red flags, apparently.
Well they red flags seem to be the typical red flags that a lot of players have coming out - how many of those players go down the path amid armed robbery?
Be mad at the player, he’s the fucking idiot. Apply this logic to your own life - if you fuck up is it ok to blame your parents or should you take responsibility for your actions?
A better example would be blaming a hiring manager for bringing in a total fuck up. And yes I would do that in the real world.
At the end of the day this was a terrible pick by Gettleman and he’s got it own it.
I mean even if he didn’t commit robbery, he still missing team zoom meetings. And that is entirely predictable by his scouting report
And even though the red flags weren't very prominent and had nothing to do with illegal behavior, they are being exaggerated to indicate that we had dossiers on his transgressions and picked him anyways.
End of thread 💯
And even though the red flags weren't very prominent and had nothing to do with illegal behavior, they are being exaggerated to indicate that we had dossiers on his transgressions and picked him anyways.
Ok focus on random anonymous posters choice of words if you want
I’ll focus on the job our front office is doing. And in this specific cane, he did a terrible job.
Game, set and match.
Any GM that picks any player that didn't work out they need to own. You realize that, don't you?
Your analogy sucks, by the way. If Baker was this massive fuck up we'd have known about it by now. Instead the scouting reports and all anyone can find is the generic "red flag" label with no substance. Taking a chance on a guy that needs a little work isn't a bad decision in most cases. If he had some horrible background making him a massive fuck up we all would have known about it by now.
Be mad/disappointed/whatever but making stuff up is a bad look.
Having said that unless there's something external which is happened, you don't tend to go from being under-motivated and lazy to 4 counts of armed robbery without some pretty sketchy behavior inbetween. Given the SEC scout was fired, and the HC's connections to that conference then there might just have been a problem with that scout and his info and connections.
It'll be interesting to see what else comes out about Bakers prior behavior, because you know the hacks will be looking to dig up his past now. It'll also be interesting to see if what other teams thought about Baker and his red flags comes out.
These concerns were validated some by his bad combine that he clearly wasn’t prepared for. Last year during the season he didn’t know the plays. He wasn’t working hard. This offseason he wasn’t even attending the virtual off-season process. He wasn’t going to get better even if he didn’t end up in jail. This guy is a lazy turd.
Every red flag about this guy has come true. He is not the type of individual you draft in the 1st round. Remember he had a shit combine. You people defending DG are pathetic. Like the guy can do no wrong. He fucking sucks at his job and already should have been fired.
An earlier poster listed the CBs taken after baker. That’s a crap post. It creates a false narrative that they had to take a CB with that pick. There were plenty of good players at other positions picked after Baker.
This GM wasted an enormous amount of resources on this shit secondary which is still probably shit.
Another poster said well Betcher pounded the table for him. So what. Betcher isn’t shit. He shouldn’t have sway over a first round pick especially one we had to trade up for. DG is the GM. He is not absolved I’d blame because Betcher wanted someone.
This is just another example of how shit this organization is. Hopefully Joe Judge can come in clean house and turn things around. But recent history shows you this organization has zero clue as to what they are doing. There is a reason they have become the laughing stock of the league.
Sidebar serious Fuck this POS Baker. I hope he rots in jail for what he did. No excuse for this.
And another one for DG. Wasn’t his only redeeming quality that he drafts well? And do people still think he drafts well now?
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In comment 14902956 jeff57 said:
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In comment 14902927 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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please list the off the field concerns.
And as a matter of clarification, is arguing with teammates on the field an off the field concern? Is missing film sessions? Is skipping a bowl game? Can you find anything substantive?
List his arrests please.
I’ve responded to you in other posts. There’s a reason they call it a red flag. A warning that there could be trouble. I guess Aaron Hernandez would not have been a risky pick for you because he hadn’t committed a murder prior to the draft.
Come on Jeff, you made a claim back it the hell up
As soon as I’m privy to the confidential information that made up the character concerns noted by the scouts, I’ll let you know.
So, by your own admission, you know nothing, so everything you are saying is pure speculation.
Way to go!
It's not unfair to put some blame on general management when a difficult to coach and ambivalent player showed those same characteristics before being drafted.
If Dexter Lawrence beats up his mailman, not something Gettleman could have predicted.
If he gets popped for PEDs, there we go.
When a GM raises the mission accomplished banner on character changes, then drafts and signs guys with red flags, he's going to get flack.
It sucks and maybe it makes us never take a chance on any other player that isn't squeaky clean - but who knows if that's the correct move either.
Sometimes you have to lick your wounds, learn a little and move on. A lot of you guys can't do that even for something as simple as a discussion.
Never felt completely comfortable with Baker's intangibles, sounds like hindsight. I have been on record concerning his and JJ's "chirping".
Any GM that picks any player that didn't work out they need to own. You realize that, don't you?
Your analogy sucks, by the way. If Baker was this massive fuck up we'd have known about it by now. Instead the scouting reports and all anyone can find is the generic "red flag" label with no substance. Taking a chance on a guy that needs a little work isn't a bad decision in most cases. If he had some horrible background making him a massive fuck up we all would have known about it by now.
Be mad/disappointed/whatever but making stuff up is a bad look.
What am I making up?
We can argue what was known and when all day but at the end of the day I think I we agree that is was a terrible pick and that is on DG
But at the end of the day we
“So DeAndre, let’s say you’re at a party back home in the spring before year 2 with another NFL player. You just so happen to be carrying an automatic weapon. You get upset at losing some significant money in a card game and the shit is about to hit the fan. How do you react?“
If I'm a GM, then I first want to get a sense from a prospect that he gets the leap required to go from college ball to the NFL. That he gets that regardless of how good he has been at college, he's got to be a student of the game at the next level.
So, word on DeAndre Baker was that he wasn't taking prepping for the Combine seriously, the he had a sense of entitlement (not uncommon), that he's not bright, that he wants to just play his own way. Oh, and post-draft: he falls asleep in team meetings.
The writing was on the wall for Baker with Joe Judge's appointment and his stated mantra that he wants versatility. This just cements his exit.
I'm pissed that we traded up, that we gave up additional picks for this prick.
Gettleman?
This guy has done nothing but lose, but some people can't help but to bend over backwards to defend this guys.
It's pretty remarkable.
But hey, if it makes you feel better than keep saying it, I just won't bother having the conversation with you anymore.
Why don't I go out and commit a crime and blame Serby or someone on this board for that matter? It's this society we live in now where we teach kids it's someone else fault. Grow up, be a man, and everyone take responsibility for their actions. Plain and simple.
It sucks and maybe it makes us never take a chance on any other player that isn't squeaky clean - but who knows if that's the correct move either.
Sometimes you have to lick your wounds, learn a little and move on. A lot of you guys can't do that even for something as simple as a discussion.
that's correct you don't waste a premium pick on someone with multiple red flags.
you even say in your post learn a little. you mean like learn not to use premium picks on players with multiple red flags?
Same shit all the time with these posters.
Where is goterps when you need him?
But every gm has bad picks.
His being a felon is 100 pct not on the Giants and on him. This does pretty much cement his bad pick status which he may have been able to turn around. quite frankly it seemed unlikely given what his tendencies around the mental aspect of the game are.
Gettleman seems to have gotten two out of three picks right in first round last year, and if barkley and thomas stay and are as expected that’s four out of five first rounders which is a good batting average.
if the Giants aren’t turned around by 2021 in a significant way it will fall
on DG. Don’t think every single pick or decision has to be micro analyzed. he’s got a coach and some young foundational pieces let’s see where the giants are over the next 32 games.
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he was picked 30, not 3rd. If we took him in the second (which is essentially what he was) you'd just say "you can't waste a second round pick on a player like this". You'd move the goal posts, we all know it.
It sucks and maybe it makes us never take a chance on any other player that isn't squeaky clean - but who knows if that's the correct move either.
Sometimes you have to lick your wounds, learn a little and move on. A lot of you guys can't do that even for something as simple as a discussion.
that's correct you don't waste a premium pick on someone with multiple red flags.
you even say in your post learn a little. you mean like learn not to use premium picks on players with multiple red flags?
Did he have a lot of red flags up to that point in time? Being serious...
I would say there's a big difference between driving past a traffic cop and armed robbery with an automatic weapon. Lauletta might have been a goof, but, come on.
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If Reese had made bold claims about cleaning up the culture in the locker room, and then had TRADED UP for a kid that had some character flags (even if not for criminal behavior), and then that kid proceeded to fall asleep in team meetings as a rookie, go AWOL from the team's virtual sessions in his first full offseason, and then commit armed robbery less than 13 months after he was drafted, would anyone be even trying to extend the benefit of the doubt?
IMO, it doesn't matter where you fall on the DG-criticism/defense spectrum - this is a bad sequence of events for the Giants that DG has a hand in. I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture.
It's ok to acknowledge that DG fucked up on this one. I'm sure he'd like to have it back even if no one could reasonably expect him to have seen this coming.
If you are talking to me don't confuse me defending Gettleman with defending the pick. My point was made above that if you look at any one pick from any GM you can fit whatever argument you want. What I am saying is that overall Gettleman has done a good job. I wasn't crazy with the selection of Baker at all. However, as a coach wouldn't you love working with Gettleman? I would. He has made it a point to get the coaches the players that fit what they want to do. The drawback of that is when things don't go right then who gets the blame?. With Reese it was Coughlin. TC took the blame first. Then after that didn't work it was Reese. This is kind of like Gilbride's offense. When it works it is amazing (collaboration) but when it doesn't it looks like a dumpster fire.
I think the marriage of Gettleman and Judge is what will make this team. I like how Judge hinted that there are disagreements and we saw the players that were brought in this year in the draft. High character, hard working players. I do think Gettleman has an eye for talent and if you blend those two together I think well see some very positive, tangible results.
Not you, no. Not anyone in particular for that matter. Just the idea that there are fans who are reluctant to even consider that DG screwed up on this one, even if he couldn't have predicted that Baker would become a felon.
My point was that if this was a Reese pick, there would be no one trying to defend the GM. Shit, there were people putting Chad Jones on Reese's ledger as a busted pick, and he got into a fucking car accident that prematurely ended his career. But some are eager to absolve DG for this one. I find it peculiar.
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I d say it was a calculated risk.
Didn’t work out, that happens. The hand ringing over this is pretty silly IMO, drafting is not an exact science. But objectively I d say DG drafts have been better than average.
What Bake did has nothing to do with football , he s a bad character. Evidently their research led them to believe it was worth the risk.
I can think of some other Giants with character traits that worked out pretty well. One of them is considered the greatest Giant of all time, by many.
Baker and LT. Great comparison. And LT’s problems began years after he got here.
Jeff, come on. Do you really think my pt was Baker is L. T.!
I thought It was clear clear, my opinion is character issues don’t always equate to , “stay away.” But I m pretty certain you knew that when you responded to my post.
If I m wrong, and my pt was unclear, my apologies.
He was a bad pick, plain and simple. I am glad people feel we can afford to miss on picks. Let the DG bashers have their say, what’s there to defend?
And getting to the ball a step or two late, was that because he was packing a semi in his big boy football pants?
Same shit all the time with these posters.
Where is goterps when you need him?
Ohh its his fault for picking him (who here is saying it isn't?), but you are belligerent with hatred and it shows. Nothing is ever anyone elses fault when it comes to the Giants, can't possibly be any of the other adults in the organization. What does that say about you?
Same shit all the time with you. And GoTerps? Yeah, he'd say we should have traded back for twelve 5th rounders. That sure would be a fun read.
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Nothing is ever DGs fault.
Same shit all the time with these posters.
Where is goterps when you need him?
Ohh its his fault for picking him (who here is saying it isn't?), but you are belligerent with hatred and it shows. Nothing is ever anyone elses fault when it comes to the Giants, can't possibly be any of the other adults in the organization. What does that say about you?
Same shit all the time with you. And GoTerps? Yeah, he'd say we should have traded back for twelve 5th rounders. That sure would be a fun read.
I'm sick and tired of this franchise sucking ass (queue the posters who say well then root for a different team, when i just want this team to get better). And then keeping the fuckups in charge and not firing them when they should. So yea I'm annoyed.
Why don't I go out and commit a crime and blame Serby or someone on this board for that matter? It's this society we live in now where we teach kids it's someone else fault. Grow up, be a man, and everyone take responsibility for their actions. Plain and simple.
I’m pretty sure Baker is going to have to service his own jail sentence. No one is giving him a pass.
Two things can be true at once. Baker is responsible for his action of commuting a crime. Gettleman is responsible for his action of drafting baker.
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Not DG. Period.
+1
Completely agree.
I'm sick and tired of this franchise sucking ass (queue the posters who say well then root for a different team, when i just want this team to get better). And then keeping the fuckups in charge and not firing them when they should. So yea I'm annoyed.
We are tired of your moronic rants. So, yes, go root for another team. Better for you and better for most of us.
I believe I asked this on another thread recently after one of your numerous tirades - "Do you or have you ever posted anything that was not negative?"
Well - have you?
2nd, this is not on DG its on Baker. Frankly I like his first round picks so far (in fact most of his picks). Barkley, Jones, Dex all seem like great players. Thomas certainly has potential and I like the pick. So he missed on, 4 out of 5 #1's (if Thomas works out) is way above average.
And he batted 1.000 on the two 1st rounders he walked into the draft with last year.
His error was trading up for Baker, who may have been well on his way to bust status before Baker sealed his own fate anyway.
DG doesn't have to be perfect to be a good GM. This incident alone doesn't make him a bad GM (but it does continue to add up over time if the overall results don't improve). But this one absolutely goes in the L column for DG. I don't see how there's any other way to view it, even if you believe that DG is a very good GM.
I had the same thoughts.
The firing of the scout and drafting heavily at the position are curious.
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1st rd picks that year. That is still pretty good when you consider that about 1/2 of the top picks miss, and even more only pan out as average (or less) players
And when it comes to character, Darnay Holmes is as good as it gets. I can't recall ever being more impressed by a draft pick's mentality. He will prove to be a steal. I almost guarantee it!
He traded back into the first round to draft Baker,
Gettleman has egg on his face, and he can't afford that.
Mara told him he wants 'a higher batting average'.
There should have been some red flags about the kid's character, they may as well cut Baker now!
The idea that 2 professional athletes thought they could stroll into a party and steal money and possessions at gunpoint is just too ridiculous to comprehend. We are better off without him.
This isn't DG's fault. It's this idiot's fault.
I had high hopes for Baker even after a so so rookie year. He'll never play a down again as a Giant. What a waste of a career & talent.
It's never "pretty good" when you miss on a 1st round pick. It's even worse when your team is starved for talent and you traded up for that particular pick.
True, I have a more or less positive POV on his overall job performance, but I gotta ask:
Isn't this his last rodeo as GM, so why beat the shit out of him?
The Giants will be somebody else's mess soon enough.
What he did, this kind of crime IS TOTALLY ON BAKER- NOT GETTLEMAN. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. But this organization has made too many bad decisions over the last 10 years. Its largely why they are a doormat. Over the last 6 years they have blown 3 top picks on Flowers, Apple and Baker. All, who with closer inspection, shouldn't have been drafted where they were. And that's with 2 GMs. So the problem is with scouting and the VP of Player Personell who is unfortunately an owner.
What he did, this kind of crime IS TOTALLY ON BAKER- NOT GETTLEMAN. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. But this organization has made too many bad decisions over the last 10 years. Its largely why they are a doormat. Over the last 6 years they have blown 3 top picks on Flowers, Apple and Baker. All, who with closer inspection, shouldn't have been drafted where they were. And that's with 2 GMs. So the problem is with scouting and the VP of Player Personell who is unfortunately an owner.
Your words:
"Its largely why they (the Giants) are a doormat."
My words:
Aren't you being unfair to the doormats of the world?
...I have no intention of killing him for it because the wheels were set in motion a year ago, and I think things were different then. I think DG has operated quite a bit better with Judge on board, and I wonder if this entire situation might have been different if the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic and lockdown weren't severely restricting the team's ability to provide abundant structure and supervision for the players, some of whom need that in order to stay out of trouble.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's in any way defensible to be a vocal proponent of culture in the locker room and then trade up for a kid who winds up being a felon a year later, especially when there may have been enough other character flags (work ethic or otherwise) to avoid the prospect entirely in the pursuit of said culture....
There were similar concerns about Lauletta, which also manifested themselves again after he was drafted.
The difference is that Baker could play. Lauletta had almost no chance of replacing Eli. The Giants should have just kept Webb for another year. We were screwed anyway if Eli got hurt.
Same shit all the time with these posters.
Where is goterps when you need him?
Truer word haven't been spoken in a while. There is always an excuse for this organization, which has been left in the clear dust by the haves in this league. Regardless of Baker, this organization has done a terrible job or replenishing talent from the mid-late 2000s teams. And the fact that there are posters whose sole existence on this site is to defend the front office, more specifically the GM, without adding any original thought or position on the state of the team is laughable.
I mean, 7-9, 6-10, 6-10, 11-6, 3-13, 5-11, 4-12. Where is the defense in that?
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
46m
ICYMI, news story on the arrest warrant issued for DeAndre Baker. The Miramar PD was in touch with the lawyers of one of the suspects about a surrender as of last night (spokesperson wouldn't say if it was Baker of Quinton Dunbar):
First round? How about first overall.
You remember a guy named Jadaveon Clowney?
Thankfully the Giants have the CB depth to overcome this. This year was more or less a developmental year anyway. New staff, new schemes, new HC, young inexperienced players, etc. Let Beal, Ballentine, Holmes, Askew-Henry and Love duke it out to see who is the best guy opposite Bradberry. Whomever comes out on top, let them develop this year, like the rest of the team.
but DG actually IS smarter than the other teams. Just ask him!
There were similar concerns about Lauletta, which also manifested themselves again after he was drafted.
Serious question - what were the concerns about Lauletta? I honestly don't remember one thing pre-draft or even pre-traffic incident that would have suggested anything wrong with him.
Did we get any answer to what this means for the cap and CBA assuming the player's union and owners agreed that if someone goes to jail for a crime, does the cap money free up or is it a dead cap hit?
Why did we take Dexter Lawrence, didn't 16 teams pass on him?
We traded up for 1st round talent and it didn't work out. This need to make up extra narrative is baffling.
AcidTest : 10:08 am : link : reply
were more than enough concerns about Baker not to draft him at #37, let alone trade up for him. Those concerns could not have predicted this, but they were real.
There were similar concerns about Lauletta, which also manifested themselves again after he was drafted.
There were no such concerns. As a matter of fact, an Eagles article after he was signed said the traffic situation was "out of character" and there was nothing in his past to suggest such behavior.
Link - ( New Window )
real blame goes to johnmara who in charge of this mess, mara and tisch
not that they are to blame for db being a moron, but for drafting db when he had character concerns in his draft profile
😆😆
A person might have 'character concerns', but in God's name saw this coming? I'm not a big DG fan either, but taking him to the woodshed for this moron going full on criminal is unfair.
Link - ( New Window )
If an NFL player does something this dumb,I think a lot of it falls on him.As much as some people wish to blame someone,I don't think there's many NFL front offices who would react like that.
This is bad analysis because it overlooks the fact that he gave up a pick to move up a few spots for Baker. The smarter analyses I've read say the key to the draft is amassing picks because it's such a crapshoot. If you're going to give up assets to move up, you better be right. I won't hold this foolishness against DG, but based on Baker's first year, he was wrong.
If convicted, probably 10 years. A good lawyer might be able to get it down to 5 as he’s had no prior convictions or issues. Non-the-less, his NFL career is over.
What I will say is we have no idea what Judge and his staff thought of this kid's film last year, what they thought after they presumably met him at some point over the winter, or what their plans for him were in the future.
All we know is they brought in a #1 corner for good money in Free Agency and continued to cluster draft the position, as well as the secondary overall in last month's draft.
Bradberry
Holmes
Beal
Ballentine
Williamson
And now Love who has more flexibility to play where needed with the arrival of McKinney.
It's possible Baker was already not highly thought of by the new staff and was more or less turning into a sunk cost, as many 1st round picks turn out to be in this league. It wouldn't be the first time. See Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple.
For the record, this goes in the column as a bad pick for Gettleman. I'm not big on these "gotcha" moments that have become so popular though. And to anyone who doesn't think Judge is already on more solid footing than Gettleman is, I think you're mistaken. DG is likely riding out some time before he steps aside for Judge/Abrams to completely take over.
“There’s more to it than just collecting talent. There is a cultural thing to it that’s critical. I have not been on a team that’s gone to a Super Bowl that’s had a culture problem.”
Politi then asked Gettleman if he felt like the Giants had a culture problem.
“Not anymore,” Gettleman responded with a smile.
I honestly never liked the Baker pick, but I also would have been against drafting players like Marcus Peters, Aqib Talib, and Jackrabbit too when they came out. Sometimes problem children work out and if it had in this case it would have been a good move.
But it didn't work out because they were wrong - both with his disappointing on the field performance last year and his even more disappointing off the field performance.
The biggest takeaway from all of this for me is how comforting it is to have a HC who saw the value in bringing in coaches from the CFB ranks, particularly the SEC, which added an extra layer of intel on who we selected in this past year's draft (especially with the half of the draft class whom our coaches had been on staff with).
@ProFootballTalk
Giants have been in contact with CB DeAndre Baker, but Baker remains at large; did the Giants not tell Baker to turn himself in?
links to their website with a short story saying maybe the team did tell him or did not tell him or he's ignoring their advice.
Its clickbait but a headline like that should warrant a response from the team AND the NFL to Florio.
link. - ( New Window )
A person might have 'character concerns', but in God's name saw this coming? I'm not a big DG fan either, but taking him to the woodshed for this moron going full on criminal is unfair.
yes serious. why do you think they talk to former coaches, and do a background check on character before drafting a player?
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?
If convicted, probably 10 years. A good lawyer might be able to get it down to 5 as he’s had no prior convictions or issues. Non-the-less, his NFL career is over.
@ProFootballTalk
Giants have been in contact with CB DeAndre Baker, but Baker remains at large; did the Giants not tell Baker to turn himself in?
links to their website with a short story saying maybe the team did tell him or did not tell him or he's ignoring their advice.
Its clickbait but a headline like that should warrant a response from the team AND the NFL to Florio. link. - ( New Window )
Maybe Baker is adamant he’s innocent of these allegations.
😆
If reports or fairly accurate, he's going to jail for a while and done in the NFL.
Here's a good article with info from Dawg's thread.
Everything to know about Dumb Ass... - ( New Window )
What he did, this kind of crime IS TOTALLY ON BAKER- NOT GETTLEMAN. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. But this organization has made too many bad decisions over the last 10 years. Its largely why they are a doormat. Over the last 6 years they have blown 3 top picks on Flowers, Apple and Baker. All, who with closer inspection, shouldn't have been drafted where they were. And that's with 2 GMs. So the problem is with scouting and the VP of Player Personell who is unfortunately an owner.
By your logic no team should ever draft a player based on value in the draft. After all, if the player is so good, why didn’t someone else take him?
You can blame him and the front office for trading up and picking a corner that, while talented, had some red flags. But they were willing to take that risk or look past it...but this isn't new to the NFL draft.
Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
Period.
Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
it is - but he also sucked on the field. It's one thing to roll the dice on a trade up for Marcus Peters. It's another thing to trade up for a guy who sucks and has a poor attitude (skipping voluntary meetings, getting suspended rookie year, falling asleep in meetings).
The armed robbery is nobody's fault except Bakers.
Period.
Exactly. I can't believe this is still going.
Shitty character evaluation by DG.
This was a failure, no other way to paint it.
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Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
it is - but he also sucked on the field. It's one thing to roll the dice on a trade up for Marcus Peters. It's another thing to trade up for a guy who sucks and has a poor attitude (skipping voluntary meetings, getting suspended rookie year, falling asleep in meetings).
The armed robbery is nobody's fault except Bakers.
Eric, I said you can blame DG/front office on picking Baker who had some red flags as they seem to be aligned to how he has acted in a difficult rookie year. But not taking it to an armed robbery level.
And btw - Baker didn't suck at UGA.
Some guys love playing football and some are in it for that first big money prize and can't see past that.
It's pretty clear where Baker(bought himself a Lambo, bought his mother a Bentley) falls on that spectrum. That's a vibe you would hope gets picked up in interviews, where Baker apparently had issues with a number of teams.
Can we release Baker and sign Clowney now to make up for a bad secondary with a strong pass rush?
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Baker was the starting CB. Don’t say he wasn’t going to see the field cause it’s not true.
He WAS a starting CB under a coach that was atrocious. In all sincerity, what about Joe Judge strikes you as a coach who would continue to play a guy that has so far reportedly blown off the team and been unmotivated in the past?
Spot on. Baker is exactly one of the guys who was already subject to Judge’s “everyone has to earn their spot” theme.
I wonder if he was feeling stress from the situation and that led to his erratic behavior. Again, not trying to make excuses.
Ugh.
Great analysis...dumbass
He clearly identified it as a problem from the previous management team.
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In comment 14903463 LBH15 said:
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Extrapolating red flags to armed robbery though is a bit much...no?
it is - but he also sucked on the field. It's one thing to roll the dice on a trade up for Marcus Peters. It's another thing to trade up for a guy who sucks and has a poor attitude (skipping voluntary meetings, getting suspended rookie year, falling asleep in meetings).
The armed robbery is nobody's fault except Bakers.
Eric, I said you can blame DG/front office on picking Baker who had some red flags as they seem to be aligned to how he has acted in a difficult rookie year. But not taking it to an armed robbery level.
And btw - Baker didn't suck at UGA.
That's fair - and no he didn't suck at UGA. As I said in another post (not sure if it was this thread or another) the trade up for whoever our top CB was made sense. I have been on the bandwagon applauding the investments into the secondary so I would never complain about a move up for the top CB on the board.
Their evaluation was just a double miss because it turned out he wasn't so great on the field either. If he'd had a great rookie year and still been a knucklehead (like say Reuben Foster) it would have been disappointing but I think it would have made it a more forgivable pick in a twisted way.
You don't have to predict armed robbery, but at the same time it's not anywhere near as shocking of an outcome as say Saquon or Daniel Jones doing the same thing. It was a curious gamble to trade up for this guy on a team looking to clean up the culture and that can ill afford to miss on 1st rounders.
Period.
This is literally the dumbest thing I've read on this forum...and there's a lot of dumb shit.
Mentioned above that he had a 22 Wonderlic. I don't buy "inability." It's motivation, or lack thereof.
Well, Ereck Flowers killed my spirit quite a few times...
If you look at his scouting reports, there's barely a mention of it, and I'll reiterate, he had no illegal activity in his past.
You guys make it seem like incidents were numerous and that all but the giants knew he was a ticking timebomb
Did Gettleman tell Baker it was okay to go back to that house and commit armed robbery? If yes, then I agree he should resign.
That anyone would insinuate Gettleman be fired for this specific incident is a disgrace. But I guess people can't help themselves when it comes to Gettleman.
If this were the standard, a lot of NFL executive and head coaches would be without a job. All over the league, dating back years.
I just don’t agree with DG’s approach to rebuilding this roster from the ground up. DG wasn’t great at finding corners in Carolina. His philosophy he’s stuffed down our throats for 3 years mentions nothing about adding a million corners to the roster via FA, countless draft picks, and trades.
If the entire roster needed to be rebuilt, which it did, why not focus on the positions you’re good at filling? Why not focus on players who align with your philosophy?
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But given Bakers inability to respond to in person coaching, it’s not hard to imagine that he would get absolutely nothing out of virtual sessions. He probably has a very hard, if not impossible time following along.
Mentioned above that he had a 22 Wonderlic. I don't buy "inability." It's motivation, or lack thereof.
That does poke a hole in my theory
Like, come on people.
David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1m
#247 NYG: Chris Williamson - CB/Minnesota
@ShrineBowl
alum. One of the favorites down at Shrine week. Top shelf athletic ability but also shows the discipline to stay in phase, trusting his feet and balance. Might be an ideal fit for nickel but can play outside
#2020NFLDraft
New York Giants 7th-Round Pick (33): CB Chris Williamson - ( New Window )
Different signals indicate those behaviors. If Ourlads and the Draft Network caught wind of his work ethic problems in college, I'm confident Gettleman also had that information.
It's a very different type of vetting needed to understand if someone is on the edge of doing something as potentially dangerous as what Baker is accussed.
The vetting process Gettleman installed clearly indicated Baker was worth the investment and the risk. He rewarded the GM by being a real dork on the field and in the meeting room last year.
If I were Mara, and I agreed with Gettleman that culture is a major initiative, I'd raise and eyebrow with the behavior of Tate, Lauletta, Baker (before this), and the wisdom of selecting Lawrence.
Personally, I think culture is overblown and the cohort of rich, young, men who hit each other for a living will from time to time act like idiots.
It's a culmination of things he should be fired for. This is just the icing on the cake.
Nevertheless, still is disconcerting the number of posters trying to pin this level of egregious behavior on Giants lack of due diligence.
There's an old story that Napoleon was once considering giving a command to an officer, and Napleon said: "I know he's a good general, but is he lucky?” It's been a couple of years now with Gettleman running the team. He's made some good moves and he's made some bad moves, but I don't see him leading this franchise back to anything more than mediocrity. And this latest disaster, even if it's not his fault, doesn't help that perception. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm not optimistic.
so that red flag has proven to be true.
those saying well how could you know he'd pull an armed robbery. you couldn't know that. but there were character red flags as i mentioned and whatever those flags were for has proven to be true
some people mentioned aaron hernandez. he was a 4th round pick not a 1st, which is when you can start to take chances on players with red flags. redskins took shadiq charles in rd 4 this year (a very good college player with serious red flags)
We took Jones and Lawrence before Baker. Having a guy drafted at 30th overall being a bust is not a franchise killer.
And for completely SUCKING as a beat reporter.
He is the worst and should have been fired years ago.
That being said, anyone calling for DG to be 'fired' or blaming DG for this mess needs to take a fucking walk. Last I checked we drafted 9 other players in 2019, a bunch of them look to be the goods. We signed Bradberry. We got some CB help in the draft this year as well.
The thing that sucks the most about this is that Baker might be spending a good amount of time in prison, a kid might have just thrown his life away. But sure, let's talk about Dave Gettleman here.
You're not going to construct a group of 60 young, rich, men -- many of whom have lived in a glorifying bubble since middle school -- and not have some assholes or idiots.
Coaching sets the culture, what's tolerated, how guys mature professionally, and what flaws can still be part of the solution.
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In 5 years (Flowers/Apple/Baker) is just a killer for any franchise let alone one trying to bridge the talent gap with winning teams.
We took Jones and Lawrence before Baker. Having a guy drafted at 30th overall being a bust is not a franchise killer.
right, not 1 bust, but like I said, 3 of them makes it a problem, no?
If he can, don't sign him.
You're not going to construct a group of 60 young, rich, men -- many of whom have lived in a glorifying bubble since middle school -- and not have some assholes or idiots.
Coaching sets the culture, what's tolerated, how guys mature professionally, and what flaws can still be part of the solution.
I hope Judge does indeed bring a better set of disciplines to this franchise, both on and off the field.
Unfortunately for Baker, it will clearly be too late as he just threw away his life.
Has he turned himself in yet?
so that red flag has proven to be true.
those saying well how could you know he'd pull an armed robbery. you couldn't know that. but there were character red flags as i mentioned and whatever those flags were for has proven to be true
some people mentioned aaron hernandez. he was a 4th round pick not a 1st, which is when you can start to take chances on players with red flags. redskins took shadiq charles in rd 4 this year (a very good college player with serious red flags)
You just described half of the people trying to come into the league. Some work out, some don't. And it wasn't like he sucked at Georgia. He was our 3rd pick in the 1st round. We lost a 4th and a 5th to take a flyer on him. Hardly a fireable offense by a GM.
Motive must be either revenge against a cheater, or a loser’s sour grapes.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
Unfortunately for Baker, it will clearly be too late as he just threw away his life.
Has he turned himself in yet?
Sounds like authorities have been in contact with his attorney.
A great football coach can be a virtuous cycle for a team. Strong leadershop builds stronger men, who are in turn better football players, and understand the value of being better men.
Some coaches have that. Coughlin had it.
Of all the dopes on those Giants teams, only Shockey and Barber couldn't cut it. Strahan, Toomer, Boley, Burress, etc. all were able to be coached.
The reports stink, and so do the witness statements. Just from subjective intuition, I don’t think the reports lay out facts that are completely irrefutable.
It’s notable to me that everyone most likely knew each other, and everyone says Dunbar was unarmed. Except the guy who said Dunbar pointed a gun at him. And the PC on Dunbar says they couldn’t conclude he had a gun, but his arrest warrant says he’s got a semi auto firearm. Seems like people were not witnessing on Dunbar like they did on Baker, “Shy,” the red masked man, etc.
And the cars “pre-positioned” for an “expedited getaway” bothers me. Two people claim this, based on conjecture. I always pre-position my car for an expedited getaway. It’s called parking. They allegedly ran out the back door of the house. Were the cars there? Why doesn’t anyone say how the cars were positioned other than as a stand in to demonstrate pre-meditation? Baker and “Shy” flipping the card table together, however, is pretty telling.
Just the Devil’s Advocate in me. Nobody is not clear that Baker was armed and directing traffic. He’s probably guilty. But the story is not known and we should wait.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but part of the trade for Baker included the 4th rounder acquired from New Orleans in the Eli Apple trade.
Therefore, it’s BBI’s fault.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
I didn't forget. 2nd rounder was a trade for the 1st. We gave up the 4th and 5th. Please show me articles where draft analysts called it out as a bad pick. If there were any, it sure wasn't very many. On top of that, the viewpoint was that though he struggled earlier he seemed to settle down towards the end of the year and most people were looking for an uptick in performance. It was only a "bad" pick in hindsight, and to further a few people's "BURN Gettleman!!" agenda.
The reports stink, and so do the witness statements. Just from subjective intuition, I don’t think the reports lay out facts that are completely irrefutable.
It’s notable to me that everyone most likely knew each other, and everyone says Dunbar was unarmed. Except the guy who said Dunbar pointed a gun at him. And the PC on Dunbar says they couldn’t conclude he had a gun, but his arrest warrant says he’s got a semi auto firearm. Seems like people were not witnessing on Dunbar like they did on Baker, “Shy,” the red masked man, etc.
And the cars “pre-positioned” for an “expedited getaway” bothers me. Two people claim this, based on conjecture. I always pre-position my car for an expedited getaway. It’s called parking. They allegedly ran out the back door of the house. Were the cars there? Why doesn’t anyone say how the cars were positioned other than as a stand in to demonstrate pre-meditation? Baker and “Shy” flipping the card table together, however, is pretty telling.
Just the Devil’s Advocate in me. Nobody is not clear that Baker was armed and directing traffic. He’s probably guilty. But the story is not known and we should wait.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but part of the trade for Baker included the 4th rounder acquired from New Orleans in the Eli Apple trade.
Therefore, it’s BBI’s fault.
@KimJonesSports
·
13m
As of 12:15pm, neither DeAndre Baker nor Quinton Dunbar is in custody, according to @MiramarPD
. The dept. says it will provide any updates on Twitter.
Horrible decision according to who? You?
Quote:
the work ethic issues red flag showed during last season and already this offseason he couldn't be bothered to find time to attend the virtual meetings during a fucking lockdown.
so that red flag has proven to be true.
those saying well how could you know he'd pull an armed robbery. you couldn't know that. but there were character red flags as i mentioned and whatever those flags were for has proven to be true
some people mentioned aaron hernandez. he was a 4th round pick not a 1st, which is when you can start to take chances on players with red flags. redskins took shadiq charles in rd 4 this year (a very good college player with serious red flags)
You just described half of the people trying to come into the league. Some work out, some don't. And it wasn't like he sucked at Georgia. He was our 3rd pick in the 1st round. We lost a 4th and a 5th to take a flyer on him. Hardly a fireable offense by a GM.
no i did not. and they didn't take a fucking flyer on him. they drafted him in the first fucking round. trading a high 2, 4, and 5 to get him. this isn't hard to understand
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Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
I didn't forget. 2nd rounder was a trade for the 1st. We gave up the 4th and 5th. Please show me articles where draft analysts called it out as a bad pick. If there were any, it sure wasn't very many. On top of that, the viewpoint was that though he struggled earlier he seemed to settle down towards the end of the year and most people were looking for an uptick in performance. It was only a "bad" pick in hindsight, and to further a few people's "BURN Gettleman!!" agenda.
wrong. those people who knew about his flags called it a questionable pick at the time. it WASN'T hindsight
If he can, don't sign him.
lol.
Motive must be either revenge against a cheater, or a loser’s sour grapes.
You gots to know when to holdem ... know when to foldem ... know when to walks away, know when to run ... you never counts your watches when you’re sitting at the table, they’ll be time enough for counting when the trials done.
He was coached well enough he was on multiple playoff teams and a Super Bowl winner.
By all accounts he was a nightmare and yet some how Coughlin was largely able to keep a lid on it.
Did they get a low 1st rounder AND Baker in return?
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In comment 14903610 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
But Even if we just took him with her second round pick, it’s still a bad pick.
I didn't forget. 2nd rounder was a trade for the 1st. We gave up the 4th and 5th. Please show me articles where draft analysts called it out as a bad pick. If there were any, it sure wasn't very many. On top of that, the viewpoint was that though he struggled earlier he seemed to settle down towards the end of the year and most people were looking for an uptick in performance. It was only a "bad" pick in hindsight, and to further a few people's "BURN Gettleman!!" agenda.
wrong. those people who knew about his flags called it a questionable pick at the time. it WASN'T hindsight
And who are these people other than a few armchair GMs on a message board that happened to make their broken clock analysis? Other than Sy, I don't remember anyone of note calling this (even remotely) a bad pick. And we didn't give up a 2nd. We traded it for a higher pick. We gave up a 4th and a 5th.
It’s another thing to be pulling out a semi automatic pistol and robbing people. No way is this on Gettleman. Just like it’s not on BB in the Aaron Hernandez case. You can’t predict major crimes like this - if this is true it’s 100% on baker for doing this.
Did they get a low 1st rounder AND Baker in return?
Huh, how is that bias. That’s a fact
They got either a low first round pick or baker in return, however you want to look at it.
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in saying they traded a high 2nd rounder is disingenuous.
Did they get a low 1st rounder AND Baker in return?
Huh, how is that bias. That’s a fact
They got either a low first round pick or baker in return, however you want to look at it.
What?? You have people saying they traded three draft picks for Baker. That they traded a 2nd, a 4th and a 5th.
The 1st and the 2nd round picks are swaps! they only lost a 4th and a 5th. You even have a couple people earlier saying it was a 3rd and a 5th.
???
???
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In comment 14903660 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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in saying they traded a high 2nd rounder is disingenuous.
Did they get a low 1st rounder AND Baker in return?
Huh, how is that bias. That’s a fact
They got either a low first round pick or baker in return, however you want to look at it.
What?? You have people saying they traded three draft picks for Baker. That they traded a 2nd, a 4th and a 5th.
The 1st and the 2nd round picks are swaps! they only lost a 4th and a 5th. You even have a couple people earlier saying it was a 3rd and a 5th.
If someonecan't wrap their head around the fact that the Giants only traded away 2 picks to draft Baker, then I don't expect them to understand that you can't actually exrapolate work ethic issues to ROBBING PEOPLE AT GUNPOINT
This situation really shines a light on the dumbasses out there
I don’t get the objection here.
Does it work better if they say they used three draft picks to get Baker?
Even for you this level of semantics is astonishing.
Even a contrarian should be able to get that right.
What am I missing here?
What am I missing here?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
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A 2 a 4 and a 5
What am I missing here?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
This man gets it
(1) The Giants traded three draft picks to get Baker.
(2) The net loss in draft picks from the trade was two, a fourth and a fifth.
DG is absolutely not to blame for what happened. But there were enough attitude concerns to preclude trading up for Baker, especially since he was a first round pick.
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was a horrible decision and what’s infuriating about it is the 2 CBs that went right after him. I hope this draft class ends up being a good one but if DG whiffed again I’m ready for NEW blood.
Horrible decision according to who? You?
The kid is going to be facing 10 years in prison or more, after playing one mediocre season in the NFL.
Are you saying it was a good decision to trade up for Baker knowing what we know now? Is anyone saying that?
Obviously it's revisionist history because we know Baker has allegedly turned into a dangerous felon, although it doesn't sound like Baker was a clean prospect in terms of character flags (albeit nothing to suggest this).
Is now really the time that you're going to plant your flag into "according to who?"
It took the value of three draft picks for the rights to select Baker.
Why is that controversial?
(1) The Giants traded three draft picks to get Baker.
(2) The net loss in draft picks from the trade was two, a fourth and a fifth.
DG is absolutely not to blame for what happened. But there were enough attitude concerns to preclude trading up for Baker, especially since he was a first round pick.
Please show me the white papers linking reported laziness to criminal activity like ARMED ROBBERY.
They used a 2, 4 and a 5 to trade up and take bake - also a true statement.
What’s the point here? That is was a good deal? A good decision?
Clearly it was not, no mater how you phrase it.
It took the value of three draft picks for the rights to select Baker.
Why is that controversial?
Because in the draft, every player's starting cost is the value of one draft pick.
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: I mean the fellow's name.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy on first.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The first baseman.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy playing...
Abbott: Who is on first!
Costello: I'm asking YOU who's on first.
Abbott: That's the man's name.
Costello: That's who's name?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: Well go ahead and tell me.
Abbott: That's it.
Costello: That's who?
Abbott: Yes.
Quote:
If I give you 3 oranges for an apple, I still gave you 3 oranges.
It took the value of three draft picks for the rights to select Baker.
Why is that controversial?
Because in the draft, every player's starting cost is the value of one draft pick.
Exactly. Every player is worth 1 draft pick, and every player is equal to one player.
The Giants traded 3 picks (players) for one pick (player).
Baker cost them 2 incremental picks (players).
But that doesn't break the simple, unequivocal, 1st grade level math fact that the Giants traded 3 picks for 1 pick.
Who cares if it was 2 or 3 or -1.
Either way it was a terrible pick. And yes that is with hindsight.
That’s how GMs get judged. You look back at the performance of the players they selected and the team they built.
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
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A 2 a 4 and a 5
What am I missing here?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
So much this
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The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
The post I was responding to only mentioned the fourth and the fifth, and you seem to take objection to someone including the verbiage “high second round pick” for some reason, so my answer to that is.....maybe?
Simple question for you, was selecting baker a good move or a bad move?
Instead of trying to pick apart peoples critiques of Gettleman, why don’t you make the case that he’s doing a good job?
He might improve over time but he will always be a guy the other teams OC will target at crucial points in the game
And like people have said, Giants will save his salary
Plus the guy is a piece of garbage. You don’t want guys like that on your team.
Hmmmm. I think there are reading problems galore. Including your own dumbass.
Mendenhall : 5/14/2020 7:49 pm : link : reply
Baker they need to fire Gettleman. What an embarrassment.
johnboyw : 5/14/2020 8:39 pm : link : reply
Looks like Getty may not have picked up the street in him during pre-draft interviews. Heard he told Dunbar or someone else with a gun to kill someone who was there. Minimum of 20 years. Just another dumbass punk.
XBRONX : 5/14/2020 8:40 pm : link : reply
at CB. First Apple now Baker.
GiantsFan84 : 5/14/2020 8:47 pm : link : reply
did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
Default : 5/14/2020 9:23 pm : link : reply
and that player isn’t on the team in year two.
That’s on the GM.
Very clearly, those comments are insinuating that this was expected.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
Ummm, the first part of your post is also true.
#2 OT Greg Little
#4 S Amadi
#5 LB Kirven
(Not saying those would have been our picks) could be wrong.
Without understanding the true dynamics and/or disruption -- as a fan I've always felt guys who dogged it on the field were a rung below the guys who were loud mouths.
Guys like Jenkins and Baker are the players who annoyed me. Guys like Beckham and Collins not so much.
And I make no connection between dogging it and being an armed robber. But dogging it being a dip shit do seem to have a connection.
Hell, I fit both of those categories and I still get it
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if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
Ummm, the first part of your post is also true.
I understand. Put aside for the moment the current act of supreme stupidity, it was probably premature to label Baker a bust after one year under a dubious coaching staff.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
This seems like one of those situations were a lot of both scenarios are true -- 1) Baker has a shitty work ethic and dogged it on the field and 2) is a a crazy, real world dangerous asshole.
No. 1 Gettleman is accountable for, No. 2 he's not.
We still have a lot of bodies at CB. One or more might emerge and surprise.
Ownership will ultimately determine whether and to what extent DG should be held accountable for trading up for Baker. (I'm sure they won't and shouldn't hold him accountable for what happened.) My impression was that DG was going to retire after this year anyway.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
You could be right. I asked in another thread what the reaction would be if this didn’t happen and all of the news came out that he was skipping meetings. I wonder if there would still be people defending the pick.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
Someone may have to start another PJCAS appreciation thread if you keep making good points like this.
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if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
99.999999% of NFL players don't hold up people at gunpoint while under contract.
Call him a lousy pick cause he sucked on the field last year, or because there were 'red flags', but don't blame Gettleman for the kid turning out to be a complete psycho.
Show me the draft writeup that says: "Excellent 40, with potential to be a prophetically horrible gambler with an explosive temper and willingness to rob people at gunpoint."
And again, we don't have all the details yet.
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if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
?? DG is 100% responsible for Baker being on the team, and 0% responsible for him going to jail.
I hope that happens, but at this point that is nothing but hope.
To the people complaining about big Dex. Get a clue, 95% of these guys are on gear. He just got caught. And it was a good thing he did, probably goes top 10. Dude's with his athletic profile, size, production with pass rushing push don't get out of the top 10 generally. I'm a huge fan of Brown and he went top 10 and Dex is a better player, but less engine (he needs snaps off) which makes it a wash.
there were red flags back in training camp when he got injured and jenkins told him the importance of taking mental reps and he blew it off.
between bake the soon-to-be felon, and the perpetually injured beal, gettleman's had a rough go at stabilizing the CB position despite throwing a ton of draft picks at it.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
NYG: so do you like press or off?
DB: Either’s cool. But I like press more, I like to get a little physical.
NYG: Speaking of physical, once you are pro, let’s say you get a $10M contract.
DB: Cool.
NYG: Yes. It would be. So...would you then commit armed robbery?
DB: No.
NYG: Really?
DB: Nah, man. No way.
NYG: Reeeeeaaaaallllyyyyy???
DB: Damn man. You got me. I’d totally pull out a gun at a party, rob dudes, and then drive away in my expensive sports car! You all are good at this!
If that doesn't parse for some, I'd suggest moving your heart out of the thought process.
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In comment 14903680 ron mexico said:
Quote:
A 2 a 4 and a 5
What am I missing here?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
This man gets it
No, he doesn't. He's right regarding the #2 pick. However, just because Gettleman had multiple 4ths and 5ths doesn't mean he should gamble away those picks and be given a pass should that gamble not pay off. It was still a questionable trade no matter how many 4th and 5th rounders Gettleman would have had in his pocket.
It is a disconcerting trend. In these days, an allegation is akin to fact.
No surprise? Really? Care to explain all these criminal types that are in the league now?
Said first round pick is now a bust due to this. Character, psychology, personality fit, prediction of work ethic as a pro and such. None of this is part of the process?
This is now a first round bust. Not sure how this does not go on the GM's record.
Don’t recall any reports of him in college regarding potential violence - lazy, yes maybe a knucklehead at times, but nothing like this
I don’t recall Accorsi getting fired for Jeremiah Parker getting convicted for his part in the death of his girlfriends 4 year old
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Maybe...
I can tell you that in prior years, we had guys running free because of the DC's scheme and it was not as much about the player's ability.
Like you are giving him a pass already?
You've spent a majority of the day blaming Gettleman for picking Baker. Why the fuck do you have to wait for anything that happens on the field?
I agree he shouldn’t get a pass. Go figure out a plan.
Baker not working out will have a big impact. Whether as a bust or in jail.
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If they are still letting guys run free in the secondary in the near future, I’m not giving him a pass because of this.
Like you are giving him a pass already?
You've spent a majority of the day blaming Gettleman for picking Baker. Why the fuck do you have to wait for anything that happens on the field?
Are you saying someone else made the pick?
I’m not following.
Busting out on a first round pick sucks. Busting out on a first round pick in less than 16 months sucks a a lot. It’s hard to win that way. Just ask Jerry Reese.
Look out for Gettleman behind the wheel of a white Ford Bronco.
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Why hasn’t he turned himself in yet? This is not going to turn out well.
Look out for Gettleman behind the wheel of a white Ford Bronco.
Ha!
Yup... lost in all the commotion, he's still at large.
Doesn't explain the getaway cars though
I'm disappointed to lose a 1st rounder like this, it really sucks. And we will never know how good he could have been. Kind of like David Wilson, but for different reasons. I wasn't a fan of drafting him either, and he didn't have the best rookie year. But i was excited to see what he could do and its just too bad we never got to find out how good he could have been. I feel bad for David, i don't feel anything for DeAndre but disappointment.
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to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
https://twitter.com/AndySlater/status/1261401689556467712?s=20
JUST IN: Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar, accused of armed robbery, has letters from the alleged victims saying he was not involved.
“I can’t believe Miramar PD did a virtual touchdown dance without investigating further,” his attorney Michael Grieco tells me.
5:02 PM · May 15, 2020·Twitter for
Maybe it’s not baker either?
That would be awesome.
@TomRock_Newsday
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12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
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"Janoris has a bunch of puppies he's got to train," Gettleman told reporters.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
the guy who had a dead body in his house and got kicked out of florida (florida!) was the mentor
If that doesn't parse for some, I'd suggest moving your heart out of the thought process.
My thoughts exactly.
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a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
Doesn't explain the getaway cars though
That was a report from witnesses there which sounded like absolute bullshit. The people there are trying to cover their own asses as well. "Lost money to them? No idea what you are talking about officer they just took my watches for no reason".
@TomRock_Newsday
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12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
This is how many warrants go down for high profile clients from football to white collar guys. They don't want a media shitstorm to be there when they get arrested.
Link - ( New Window )
@CameronWolfe
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6m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming
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In comment 14903939 rocco8112 said:
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to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
I am a bit out of my element defending DG. There are others who do it so often it’s second nature.
I agree it’s a bust and it’s on his watch. I am just separating the statement that DG was responsible for what happened as stated in your posts.
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The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
christian, love ya man, and we prolly disagree as much as agree, you're thoughtful, but here I think you're prolly grasping at straws, throw this man a life preserver!!
As is quite often the case, I’m pretty confident I’m wrong about this ^
But .. hope for the best?
@TomRock_Newsday
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12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
I’m obviously not a lawyer, but what does this all mean? Is Baker’s lawyer “negotiating” to not have him arrested? Is he negotiating bail, negotiating so he doesn’t have to turn himself in? What is being negotiated I just don’t get it? Also apparently Dunbar had sworn affidavits that he wasn’t involved from witnesses?
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
@CameronWolfe
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44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
Which is nice, as Bill Murray might say.
We'll see who Baker gets.
As for Tony Pauline's "dumb as dirt" line, Pauline's been known to be creative with his alleged sources. I would not trust that anyone associated with the Giants actually made that comment.
As has been mentioned, Baker had a 22 Wonderlic score. Not Einstein but not dirt either.
wonderlic - ( New Window )
Probably bail amount
I said this from the moment DG joined the team and it is even more obvious today he may be the smartest guy in the room but that isn't as much of an asset today as it was even 10 years ago. The best decisions come from information platforms, decision making systems, cultures of innovation where new ideas are fostered.
Talk about being excited about Judge all you want but if you asked BB to build the systems he uses in New England fresh he'd probably have no idea, because he's a football guy, not a guy who hires software developers, builds complex value models or understands the talents and capabilities to do that. Judge is carrying what is clearly dead weight here and BB is lifted by someone like Ernie Adams and Kraft. From Ernie Adams wikipedia page
"Belichick got his next head coaching opportunity with the Patriots in 2000. This time, Adams joined the team not as a coach, but as "Football Research Director." Adams fills a variety of roles for the team. On gamedays, he assists the coaching staff from the press box, advising Belichick on which plays to issue a replay challenge.[1] He also assists the scouting department in preparing for the NFL Draft in the spring, and builds the team's player value chart for the draft.[1] Finally, Adams works on special assignments for the coaching and scouting staffs, which typically involve breaking down game tape.[1] In 2007, as part of Spygate, it was revealed that Adams received tapes from a "third camera" that recorded opponents' defensive signals from a location on the sideline, in violation of a league memo issued by commissioner Roger Goodell."
The Pats have an entrenched director of research who by all accounts is amazing at what he does so amazing that his boss Kraft was able to start a company no doubt derived from some of the models he build. It can't be stressed enough the value of doing something like building the draft value chart in a mathematical way. The Pats did take Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round no doubt with an appropriate risk weighting in a mathematical calculation. Ernie Adams had started his own investment firm before working for the Pats and coached in the NFL. We think a guy that had a few years of consulting experience should be put in an equivalent role leading our analysis efforts and we've seen the results.
In complex numbers games with limited resources math is your friend, we put a guy in charge that bucks the math and types on fake computers at people who have the audacity to suggest more math might be helpful.
And that's really the larger problem. The Giants, Gettleman, think they are smarter than everyone else and know things other teams don't. I'm of the belief that everyone has different perspectives and can add value and proper systems accumulate and distribute knowledge. The Giants as an organization are over confident and overconfidence makes you prone to errors.
The Giants brass seems to like authority and their big "culture" purge was clearly against anyone speaking out but sometimes people just tell you what you want to hear. The Pats authority is respected not because BB is willing to cut ties with anyone, it's that top to bottom the decisions of the team are respected. Our GM being a laughing stock in public. Our team being lost for years. You can bring someone in to threaten players for not showing up sure but until you show competence it doesn't matter how authoritative you are. DG isn't respected by a lot of the media, a lot of the fan base, the owners and franchise are losing respect. THAT is the real problem not some threat of being cut, because there is zero Giants pride at this point.
The sum of our decisions from the top have added up to the same bad results on the field for a long time now, and we have made no changes at the top, none. DG was as far from a change as could be and it's showing right now. Judge can only do so much, no one should forget that BB the most talented coach of our time failed in his first stint. With different structures in place, owners, research etc. he was able to succeed.
Can anyone make a remotely good case that we have the right structures in place right now?
I hope Judge is a miracle worker but it's disappointing to see stain after stain on this franchise and the same people in charge. I don't know how the defenders of these people find the energy but bully to them.
First round? How about first overall.You remember a guy named Jadaveon Clowney?
There are three reasons for a prospect with "generational" talent having an unproductive final year in college: 1) He's not as good as his talent suggests he should be; 2) Lack of effort; 3) He was playing through an injury. Reason #3 is the only acceptable reason and even then it would give me pause when it comes to the first overall pick. But I digress.
As I pointed out in an earlier comment, Reuben Foster is an even more glaring example of a team gambling and losing when they traded up into the bottom of the 1st round for a prospect with a top 10-15 grade but red flags attached. The Niners rebounded pretty well from that mistake.
My take on it is similar to what others have said (including Sy, I think): Gettleman had so many picks he felt like he was playing with the house money when he traded up. It was a chance to get the #1 CB on their board with the 5th year option included. I think if the Giants were without all the additional picks, he doesn't make that move.
I'm not saying Gettleman doesn't deserve criticism, but the stars were aligned perfectly for taking the kind of gamble he did. Sometimes these gambles pay off in a big way. It was a gamble when Miami took Tunsil. It was a gamble when the Bucs took Warren Sapp. It was a gamble when the Vikings took Randy Moss. All three of those guys fell because of red flags. Those are first round gambles on greatness that paid off. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes the blues get a hold of you...
It's gonna be a sweet season! - ( New Window )
Hopefully, Judge knows what he is doing.
@CameronWolfe
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44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
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Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
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44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
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In comment 14904044 Eric from BBI said:
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Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
Maybe Baker and Dunbar were using water guns?
But as I’ve pointed out even a CTO or a director of research with the proper qualifications and power in the organization, someone with a relevant title on the senior staff that isn’t referred to as a “computer guy.” Someone with more respect than that, preview of something relevant to a refined mathematical approach like building a draft value board.
If I could choose to care about the Giants or not I wouldn’t torcher myself like this. I’ve actually watched more games than I should have in person the last few seasons of this “team.” There isn’t enough ink in the world to expound on this disaster of a franchise and maybe just maybe enough people will get tired enough of it to do something real about it
Oh of course this is 100% on Gettleman and 0% on Baker. In fact Baker is the victim here. I bet that Gettleman corrupted this poor innocent kid!
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Oh of course this is 100% on Gettleman and 0% on Baker. In fact Baker is the victim here. I bet that Gettleman corrupted this poor innocent kid!
Well he traded up for Baker, do you think it was love or full bloom love?
Do you think he falls for the bad boys because he thinks he can change them? Or does he just like the danger?
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
I would guess they are negotiating how and where he can turn himself in to avoid the media. And then where he will be held and how quickly he can be arraigned for bail to be set so he can pay it and be released.
Also, like Dunbar’s attorney,
Bakers lawyer can be advocating and providing what evidence he can to have the charges reduced.
Though generally people are charged with the highest count and it is reduced later after more investigation.
I would guess they are negotiating how and where he can turn himself in to avoid the media. And then where he will be held and how quickly he can be arraigned for bail to be set so he can pay it and be released.
Also, like Dunbar’s attorney,
Bakers lawyer can be advocating and providing what evidence he can to have the charges reduced.
Though generally people are charged with the highest count and it is reduced later after more investigation.
The fucking King of Analytics uses this example to say we don't have a guy "with the proper qualifications" that has led to a string of bad decisions, including picking Baker.
Are you really insinuating that this incident is a result of not having the proper models for draft strategy?
You really are a fucking peach.
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and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
Because they rather not break out the swat team?
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me.
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In comment 14904189 Knineteen said:
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Oh of course this is 100% on Gettleman and 0% on Baker. In fact Baker is the victim here. I bet that Gettleman corrupted this poor innocent kid!
Well he traded up for Baker, do you think it was love or full bloom love?
Do you think he falls for the bad boys because he thinks he can change them? Or does he just like the danger?
Hey Abacus Charlie,
Can you please list the "bad boys" he falls in love with"?? Barkley? Jones? McCaffery?
Are you really going to post that fucking drivel acting as if Gettleman has taken a lot of risks on problem players.
List them, Data Dan.
Link - ( New Window )
You'd swear this was Lawrence Phillips here.
"We have had affidavits from several witnesses that also dispute the allegations and exculpate our client. Our investigator has had them for some time."
Interesting how he says they've had these affidavits for "some time"
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In comment 14904112 Dave on the UWS said:
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and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
Because they rather not break out the swat team?
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me.
Break out the SWAT team? You cannot be serious. You think they break out the SWAT team on every arrest warrant? Ludicrous thinking.
None of us would know that, but there have been false accusations before and those players have continued to play.
As bizarre as this story is, I have no clue what will happen next
Just making light of the situation obviously, before some people jump all over me.
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In comment 14904220 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 14904112 Dave on the UWS said:
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and she thinks he's negotiating what he will plead to and bail money. Stay tuned.
Ok, but why would the authorities need to negotiate anything? Why is this somehow negotiable? Just go pick his ass up. If he has a warrant out and his attorney knows where he is, he should be charged with obstruction, not allowed to negotiate.
Because they rather not break out the swat team?
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me.
Break out the SWAT team? You cannot be serious. You think they break out the SWAT team on every arrest warrant? Ludicrous thinking.
Swat team is an exaggeration, but when they want to arrest someone who doesn’t want to be arrested it’s a pretty serious interaction.
@lawronin
). In the statement, he claims several witnesses dispute the allegations and calls his client “innocent of any charges.” https://instagram.com/p/CAOtKmslJg5/?igshid=culrcjl9w85k…
Pitfalls of trading up. Read the fucking post.
Even if he gets out of this, I've got to believe Joe Judge is thinking Baker is a cancer on the culture I"m trying to instil. Not just from this, but from his falling asleep in meetings, from not wanting to learn stuff, from thinking his natural talent will get him by at NFL level. I'd want him gone.
For skipping team Zoom meetings all week alone, Baker was already demonstrating a lack of commitment and a level of immaturity that typically precludes success in the NFL.
Even without brandishing a firearm to commit armed robbery at an illegal poker game during an ill-advised social gathering set against the backdrop of stay-at-home pandemic advisories, Baker was well on his way to making Eli Apple look like a dedicated professional by comparison.
The hilarious part is the extent to which some fans will contort themselves to avoid being critical of anything this franchise does.
😂😂😂😂
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
All the posts you had to read? You could have read none of them.
Fuck off.
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Sunday who had their stupid fucking mind made up with no understanding, research or rational who wanted him cut, in jail, beaten, and all the stupid fucking posts I had to read about this when charges hadn't even been pressed yet and how Gettlemen is a failure and needs to be fired....blah blah blah
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
All the posts you had to read? You could have read none of them.
Fuck off.
I read them for fun, it’s interesting watching ignorant people show their true colors with words like “thug.” Sad actually but definitely a few good laughs along the way as well.
you need to reassess the way you perceive things and pass judgement
so please... just shut the fuck up
I'm sorry this happened to you.
In light of this unfortunate, yet still egregious lack of restraint on the part of so many posters, myself included, perhaps Eric will update BBI's Code of Conduct so you're not forced to read anything that might upset your clearly delicate sensibilities.
In fact, I propose that each new thread must include a disclaimer in the title specifically stating that you do not have to read it.
We can call it The Rory Rule.
like dont be a moron. kThanks