the math. It is the inference. Can't be any plainer than this kind of inferral:
Quote:
The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
galore. Haven;t seen anybody say DG should have known he was going to be a felon. People are saying, now that he most likely gone, he should have not been drafted. From Sy,"What surprised me was the fact he didn�t receive a lot of love from the UGA coaching staff when it came to character and work ethic. In addition, it was public knowledge he didn�t interview very well". Anybody want that in a first round choice? Not me. As fans we didnt know that.
the math. It is the inference. Can't be any plainer than this kind of inferral:
Quote:
The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
The post I was responding to only mentioned the fourth and the fifth, and you seem to take objection to someone including the verbiage “high second round pick” for some reason, so my answer to that is.....maybe?
Simple question for you, was selecting baker a good move or a bad move?
Instead of trying to pick apart peoples critiques of Gettleman, why don’t you make the case that he’s doing a good job?
galore. Haven;t seen anybody say DG should have known he was going to be a felon. People are saying, now that he most likely gone, he should have not been drafted. From Sy,"What surprised me was the fact he didn�t receive a lot of love from the UGA coaching staff when it came to character and work ethic. In addition, it was public knowledge he didn�t interview very well". Anybody want that in a first round choice? Not me. As fans we didnt know that.
Hmmmm. I think there are reading problems galore. Including your own dumbass.
Quote:
After they cut
Mendenhall : 5/14/2020 7:49 pm : link : reply
Baker they need to fire Gettleman. What an embarrassment.
Quote:
Baker didnt just wake up and decide to start a life a crime. Clearly they messed up on doing his homework in the draft.
Quote:
DeAndre Baker..........
johnboyw : 5/14/2020 8:39 pm : link : reply
Looks like Getty may not have picked up the street in him during pre-draft interviews. Heard he told Dunbar or someone else with a gun to kill someone who was there. Minimum of 20 years. Just another dumbass punk.
Quote:
Great character evals
XBRONX : 5/14/2020 8:40 pm : link : reply
at CB. First Apple now Baker.
Quote:
so where are the DG defenders now?
GiantsFan84 : 5/14/2020 8:47 pm : link : reply
did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
Quote:
A GM trades up for a player in the first round,
Default : 5/14/2020 9:23 pm : link : reply
and that player isn’t on the team in year two.
That’s on the GM.
Very clearly, those comments are insinuating that this was expected.
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
It seems like a natural and fair point for management to assess how they evaluate players and what the strategy on managing "character" really is.
Without understanding the true dynamics and/or disruption -- as a fan I've always felt guys who dogged it on the field were a rung below the guys who were loud mouths.
Guys like Jenkins and Baker are the players who annoyed me. Guys like Beckham and Collins not so much.
And I make no connection between dogging it and being an armed robber. But dogging it being a dip shit do seem to have a connection.
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
Ummm, the first part of your post is also true.
I understand. Put aside for the moment the current act of supreme stupidity, it was probably premature to label Baker a bust after one year under a dubious coaching staff.
wind up giving Gettleman more of a pass than some people think. Yes, it appears there were some red flags, but nothing to this extent IMO could have been predicted.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
This seems like one of those situations were a lot of both scenarios are true -- 1) Baker has a shitty work ethic and dogged it on the field and 2) is a a crazy, real world dangerous asshole.
No. 1 Gettleman is accountable for, No. 2 he's not.
We still have a lot of bodies at CB. One or more might emerge and surprise.
Ownership will ultimately determine whether and to what extent DG should be held accountable for trading up for Baker. (I'm sure they won't and shouldn't hold him accountable for what happened.) My impression was that DG was going to retire after this year anyway.
wind up giving Gettleman more of a pass than some people think. Yes, it appears there were some red flags, but nothing to this extent IMO could have been predicted.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
You could be right. I asked in another thread what the reaction would be if this didn’t happen and all of the news came out that he was skipping meetings. I wonder if there would still be people defending the pick.
When something like this happens you just have to wonder, is this guy already feeling the effects of continues blows to the head so that his judgement/decision making is already severely impaired. Not everyone is the same...with some of these guys it may creep in a lot earlier. I remember when Chris Henry died (believe he was 25 or 26) they found that he indeed had CTE.
DG shoudn't be responsible for not knowing Baker would do this
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
wind up giving Gettleman more of a pass than some people think. Yes, it appears there were some red flags, but nothing to this extent IMO could have been predicted.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
Someone may have to start another PJCAS appreciation thread if you keep making good points like this.
Michael kay using a negative tone when talking the Giants culture ( like all we do is sign/draft hoodlums ).Don La Greca just now is saying the negative thing about the Giants is they don't win......Not that they keep getting people with bad character …….I agree with Don La Greca. (But that is just me )…...GO GIANTS !!!!!
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
Gettleman thought the kid was worth the risk.
99.999999% of NFL players don't hold up people at gunpoint while under contract.
Call him a lousy pick cause he sucked on the field last year, or because there were 'red flags', but don't blame Gettleman for the kid turning out to be a complete psycho.
Show me the draft writeup that says: "Excellent 40, with potential to be a prophetically horrible gambler with an explosive temper and willingness to rob people at gunpoint."
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
?? DG is 100% responsible for Baker being on the team, and 0% responsible for him going to jail.
No matter how you slice it this goes in the L column for DG
Maybe all the other guys in the DB room will be awesome and the secondary becomes a team strength and we start winning a bunch of games. If so, then I won’t give a shit about this.
I hope that happens, but at this point that is nothing but hope.
with him trading picks for a player with questionable work ethic and some character concerns when Byron Murphy was sitting right there. Guy is the total package except he's 5'9. Baker was the one pick that was a major headscrather with the so called focus on "culture".
To the people complaining about big Dex. Get a clue, 95% of these guys are on gear. He just got caught. And it was a good thing he did, probably goes top 10. Dude's with his athletic profile, size, production with pass rushing push don't get out of the top 10 generally. I'm a huge fan of Brown and he went top 10 and Dex is a better player, but less engine (he needs snaps off) which makes it a wash.
there were red flags back in training camp when he got injured and jenkins told him the importance of taking mental reps and he blew it off.
between bake the soon-to-be felon, and the perpetually injured beal, gettleman's had a rough go at stabilizing the CB position despite throwing a ton of draft picks at it.
As a Giants fan, I was frustrated by and now disappointed by this sentiment after Baker and others were picked.
Quote:
"Janoris has a bunch of puppies he's got to train," Gettleman told reporters.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
This man gets it
No, he doesn't. He's right regarding the #2 pick. However, just because Gettleman had multiple 4ths and 5ths doesn't mean he should gamble away those picks and be given a pass should that gamble not pay off. It was still a questionable trade no matter how many 4th and 5th rounders Gettleman would have had in his pocket.
some are prone to judge this as open and shut. I believe in innocence until PROVEN guilty. Given what was said, I am by no means insinuating the allegations are false but can we withhold our vitriol until all the facts are in hand?
It is a disconcerting trend. In these days, an allegation is akin to fact.
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
Said first round pick is now a bust due to this. Character, psychology, personality fit, prediction of work ethic as a pro and such. None of this is part of the process?
This is now a first round bust. Not sure how this does not go on the GM's record.
They used a 2, 4 and a 5 to trade up and take bake - also a true statement.
What’s the point here? That is was a good deal? A good decision?
Clearly it was not, no mater how you phrase it.
It took the value of three draft picks for the rights to select Baker.
Why is that controversial?
Because in the draft, every player's starting cost is the value of one draft pick.
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: I mean the fellow's name.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy on first.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The first baseman.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy playing...
Abbott: Who is on first!
Costello: I'm asking YOU who's on first.
Abbott: That's the man's name.
Costello: That's who's name?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: Well go ahead and tell me.
Abbott: That's it.
Costello: That's who?
Abbott: Yes.
Quote:
If I give you 3 oranges for an apple, I still gave you 3 oranges.
It took the value of three draft picks for the rights to select Baker.
Why is that controversial?
Because in the draft, every player's starting cost is the value of one draft pick.
Exactly. Every player is worth 1 draft pick, and every player is equal to one player.
The Giants traded 3 picks (players) for one pick (player).
Baker cost them 2 incremental picks (players).
But that doesn't break the simple, unequivocal, 1st grade level math fact that the Giants traded 3 picks for 1 pick.
Who cares if it was 2 or 3 or -1.
Either way it was a terrible pick. And yes that is with hindsight.
That’s how GMs get judged. You look back at the performance of the players they selected and the team they built.
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
Quote:
A 2 a 4 and a 5
What am I missing here?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
So much this
Quote:
The fact that he was our third pick in the first round
ron mexico : 12:19 pm : link : reply
Doesn’t excuse the fact that he is still a first round pick.
And I think you’re forgetting that we also had to use second round pick to move up.
Was there ever a question that the 2nd rounder was used? Were we expected to retain the 2nd rounder?
The post I was responding to only mentioned the fourth and the fifth, and you seem to take objection to someone including the verbiage “high second round pick” for some reason, so my answer to that is.....maybe?
Simple question for you, was selecting baker a good move or a bad move?
Instead of trying to pick apart peoples critiques of Gettleman, why don’t you make the case that he’s doing a good job?
He might improve over time but he will always be a guy the other teams OC will target at crucial points in the game
And like people have said, Giants will save his salary
Plus the guy is a piece of garbage. You don’t want guys like that on your team.
Hmmmm. I think there are reading problems galore. Including your own dumbass.
Mendenhall : 5/14/2020 7:49 pm : link : reply
Baker they need to fire Gettleman. What an embarrassment.
johnboyw : 5/14/2020 8:39 pm : link : reply
Looks like Getty may not have picked up the street in him during pre-draft interviews. Heard he told Dunbar or someone else with a gun to kill someone who was there. Minimum of 20 years. Just another dumbass punk.
XBRONX : 5/14/2020 8:40 pm : link : reply
at CB. First Apple now Baker.
GiantsFan84 : 5/14/2020 8:47 pm : link : reply
did he not know about the red flags that Sy did? this is another in a long line of fireable offenses for DG
Default : 5/14/2020 9:23 pm : link : reply
and that player isn’t on the team in year two.
That’s on the GM.
Very clearly, those comments are insinuating that this was expected.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
Ummm, the first part of your post is also true.
#2 OT Greg Little
#4 S Amadi
#5 LB Kirven
(Not saying those would have been our picks) could be wrong.
Without understanding the true dynamics and/or disruption -- as a fan I've always felt guys who dogged it on the field were a rung below the guys who were loud mouths.
Guys like Jenkins and Baker are the players who annoyed me. Guys like Beckham and Collins not so much.
And I make no connection between dogging it and being an armed robber. But dogging it being a dip shit do seem to have a connection.
Hell, I fit both of those categories and I still get it
Quote:
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
Ummm, the first part of your post is also true.
I understand. Put aside for the moment the current act of supreme stupidity, it was probably premature to label Baker a bust after one year under a dubious coaching staff.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
This seems like one of those situations were a lot of both scenarios are true -- 1) Baker has a shitty work ethic and dogged it on the field and 2) is a a crazy, real world dangerous asshole.
No. 1 Gettleman is accountable for, No. 2 he's not.
We still have a lot of bodies at CB. One or more might emerge and surprise.
Ownership will ultimately determine whether and to what extent DG should be held accountable for trading up for Baker. (I'm sure they won't and shouldn't hold him accountable for what happened.) My impression was that DG was going to retire after this year anyway.
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
You could be right. I asked in another thread what the reaction would be if this didn’t happen and all of the news came out that he was skipping meetings. I wonder if there would still be people defending the pick.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
But Baker was brutal on the field and that's as much of an indictment or more for a GM IMO.
I don't mind some risk taking if a player's draft spot presents value for their perceived skill set.
I don't want or expect a team of choir boys.
So, now some people will say Baker was a rookie, bumps were to be expected, he played better toward the end of the season...
and all that could be true, but if he sucked again this year and next the fallout on Gettleman for missing on a 1st round pick talent wise IMO would be worse than taking on a risk on a guy with some red flags but represented value in his draft spot.
it's pretty likely now if convicted we never know if Baker would have lived up to the expectations on-field.
Someone may have to start another PJCAS appreciation thread if you keep making good points like this.
Quote:
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
99.999999% of NFL players don't hold up people at gunpoint while under contract.
Call him a lousy pick cause he sucked on the field last year, or because there were 'red flags', but don't blame Gettleman for the kid turning out to be a complete psycho.
Show me the draft writeup that says: "Excellent 40, with potential to be a prophetically horrible gambler with an explosive temper and willingness to rob people at gunpoint."
And again, we don't have all the details yet.
Quote:
if the player has a poor work ethic, isn't intelligent, can't grasp the playbook, then yeas you can ding the GM.
However, armed robbery is kind of hard to predict. In the case of Aaron Hernandez there were clearly tell tale signs of risky behavior, particularly the gang associations. With Baker, I don't think the signs pointed to him being a violent felon in waiting.
Sometimes you have parents who are the nicest people and have done everything to show their children the difference between right and wrong. They discipline their kids accordingly and love them but the child still turns out to be a jack nuts. Do you hold them responsible for their childs bad behavior?
He is the GM, he made the pick, the team needed asset to be a top talent because the team sucks. Now team has nothing to show because he robbed people at gunpoint and drove away in an expensive getaway car.
He is 100% responsible. Who else would be?
?? DG is 100% responsible for Baker being on the team, and 0% responsible for him going to jail.
I hope that happens, but at this point that is nothing but hope.
To the people complaining about big Dex. Get a clue, 95% of these guys are on gear. He just got caught. And it was a good thing he did, probably goes top 10. Dude's with his athletic profile, size, production with pass rushing push don't get out of the top 10 generally. I'm a huge fan of Brown and he went top 10 and Dex is a better player, but less engine (he needs snaps off) which makes it a wash.
there were red flags back in training camp when he got injured and jenkins told him the importance of taking mental reps and he blew it off.
between bake the soon-to-be felon, and the perpetually injured beal, gettleman's had a rough go at stabilizing the CB position despite throwing a ton of draft picks at it.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
NYG: so do you like press or off?
DB: Either’s cool. But I like press more, I like to get a little physical.
NYG: Speaking of physical, once you are pro, let’s say you get a $10M contract.
DB: Cool.
NYG: Yes. It would be. So...would you then commit armed robbery?
DB: No.
NYG: Really?
DB: Nah, man. No way.
NYG: Reeeeeaaaaallllyyyyy???
DB: Damn man. You got me. I’d totally pull out a gun at a party, rob dudes, and then drive away in my expensive sports car! You all are good at this!
If that doesn't parse for some, I'd suggest moving your heart out of the thought process.
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In comment 14903680 ron mexico said:
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A 2 a 4 and a 5
What am I missing here?
I love it when people count the 2nd round pick as part of the trade to move up in the late 1st. Of course they used the 2, they moved UP from that spot to take the player earlier.
So it was a 4 and a 5. As stated previously, they had multiple 4th and 5th picks in that draft, that they used on Love and Connelly. So, you can criticize Gettleman for dealing those extra 4th and 5th picks away to move up, but, we still had picks in those rounds.
The argument to be made is well, should have just stayed put in round 2 and keep the extra picks. That's a certainly fair argument.
Using "he traded a 2!" is not an argument.
This man gets it
No, he doesn't. He's right regarding the #2 pick. However, just because Gettleman had multiple 4ths and 5ths doesn't mean he should gamble away those picks and be given a pass should that gamble not pay off. It was still a questionable trade no matter how many 4th and 5th rounders Gettleman would have had in his pocket.
It is a disconcerting trend. In these days, an allegation is akin to fact.
No surprise? Really? Care to explain all these criminal types that are in the league now?
Said first round pick is now a bust due to this. Character, psychology, personality fit, prediction of work ethic as a pro and such. None of this is part of the process?
This is now a first round bust. Not sure how this does not go on the GM's record.