I did not think it was a bad move to trade up to get a talented player at the end of the 1st who had top half talent. Plus the extra year option on. 1sr round picks is an important one
Don’t recall any reports of him in college regarding potential violence - lazy, yes maybe a knucklehead at times, but nothing like this
I don’t recall Accorsi getting fired for Jeremiah Parker getting convicted for his part in the death of his girlfriends 4 year old
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
DG is responsible for putting a competitive product in the field
If they are still letting guys run free in the secondary in the near future, I’m not giving him a pass because of this.
Like you are giving him a pass already?
You've spent a majority of the day blaming Gettleman for picking Baker. Why the fuck do you have to wait for anything that happens on the field?
Are you saying someone else made the pick?
I’m not following.
Busting out on a first round pick sucks. Busting out on a first round pick in less than 16 months sucks a a lot. It’s hard to win that way. Just ask Jerry Reese.
If we can blame Reese for Eli Apple being a mental case
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
coming out of the draft. And i was surprised the Giants picked him. I don't mind the trade up into the 1st, i actually think that's a good "moneyball" approach to get the extra option year. I just thought he was the 3rd, maybe 4th CB in the draft and I was very interested in some of the Offensive Tackles still on the board. Thought for sure the trade was for a tackle, such a need spot, but no.
I'm disappointed to lose a 1st rounder like this, it really sucks. And we will never know how good he could have been. Kind of like David Wilson, but for different reasons. I wasn't a fan of drafting him either, and he didn't have the best rookie year. But i was excited to see what he could do and its just too bad we never got to find out how good he could have been. I feel bad for David, i don't feel anything for DeAndre but disappointment.
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
@AndySlater
JUST IN: Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar, accused of armed robbery, has letters from the alleged victims saying he was not involved.
“I can’t believe Miramar PD did a virtual touchdown dance without investigating further,” his attorney Michael Grieco tells me.
5:02 PM · May 15, 2020·Twitter for
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
As a Giants fan, I was frustrated by and now disappointed by this sentiment after Baker and others were picked.
Quote:
"Janoris has a bunch of puppies he's got to train," Gettleman told reporters.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
the guy who had a dead body in his house and got kicked out of florida (florida!) was the mentor
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
Doesn't explain the getaway cars though
That was a report from witnesses there which sounded like absolute bullshit. The people there are trying to cover their own asses as well. "Lost money to them? No idea what you are talking about officer they just took my watches for no reason".
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
This is how many warrants go down for high profile clients from football to white collar guys. They don't want a media shitstorm to be there when they get arrested.
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
6m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
I am a bit out of my element defending DG. There are others who do it so often it’s second nature.
I agree it’s a bust and it’s on his watch. I am just separating the statement that DG was responsible for what happened as stated in your posts.
Early reports on this are so ridiculous. It was pretty clearly a card
game got out of hand and Baker didn't like getting stiffed and he took what was his. Guy is a fucking idiot doing it over 70k, but that is another argument. To think a bunch of football players had this elaborate heist planned for 70k in their exotic cars is asinine. I'm honestly curious what type of operation this was considering security was non existent. Sounds like he was playing with a bunch of drug dealers honestly. There are plenty of these high stakes games around and they always have some sort of security at door.
seems to me (and Tom Rock is not exactly with it here) that smart someone above stated it's likely about bail conditions. Even if Baker is dumb as dirt, with his assets (though diminished, above and below the line), he's able to hire a competent criminal att'y
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
christian, love ya man, and we prolly disagree as much as agree, you're thoughtful, but here I think you're prolly grasping at straws, throw this man a life preserver!!
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
christian, love ya man, and we prolly disagree as much as agree, you're thoughtful, but here I think you're prolly grasping at straws, throw this man a life preserver!!
As is quite often the case, I’m pretty confident I’m wrong about this ^
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
I’m obviously not a lawyer, but what does this all mean? Is Baker’s lawyer “negotiating” to not have him arrested? Is he negotiating bail, negotiating so he doesn’t have to turn himself in? What is being negotiated I just don’t get it? Also apparently Dunbar had sworn affidavits that he wasn’t involved from witnesses?
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
As for Tony Pauline's "dumb as dirt" line, Pauline's been known to be creative with his alleged sources. I would not trust that anyone associated with the Giants actually made that comment.
As has been mentioned, Baker had a 22 Wonderlic score. Not Einstein but not dirt either.
When I commented did my comment part not show up? What does “negotiating” mean in regards to the attorneys? Are they negotiating Baker turning himself in, bail? Dunbar has sworn affidavits from witnesses that he wasn’t involved...
When I commented did my comment part not show up? What does “negotiating” mean in regards to the attorneys? Are they negotiating Baker turning himself in, bail? Dunbar has sworn affidavits from witnesses that he wasn’t involved...
Probably bail amount
The problem with this franchise and certainly DG is the poster boy
for this is that they are stuck in the past and wouldn't understand what good culture was if it hit them in the face.
I said this from the moment DG joined the team and it is even more obvious today he may be the smartest guy in the room but that isn't as much of an asset today as it was even 10 years ago. The best decisions come from information platforms, decision making systems, cultures of innovation where new ideas are fostered.
Talk about being excited about Judge all you want but if you asked BB to build the systems he uses in New England fresh he'd probably have no idea, because he's a football guy, not a guy who hires software developers, builds complex value models or understands the talents and capabilities to do that. Judge is carrying what is clearly dead weight here and BB is lifted by someone like Ernie Adams and Kraft. From Ernie Adams wikipedia page
"Belichick got his next head coaching opportunity with the Patriots in 2000. This time, Adams joined the team not as a coach, but as "Football Research Director." Adams fills a variety of roles for the team. On gamedays, he assists the coaching staff from the press box, advising Belichick on which plays to issue a replay challenge.[1] He also assists the scouting department in preparing for the NFL Draft in the spring, and builds the team's player value chart for the draft.[1] Finally, Adams works on special assignments for the coaching and scouting staffs, which typically involve breaking down game tape.[1] In 2007, as part of Spygate, it was revealed that Adams received tapes from a "third camera" that recorded opponents' defensive signals from a location on the sideline, in violation of a league memo issued by commissioner Roger Goodell."
The Pats have an entrenched director of research who by all accounts is amazing at what he does so amazing that his boss Kraft was able to start a company no doubt derived from some of the models he build. It can't be stressed enough the value of doing something like building the draft value chart in a mathematical way. The Pats did take Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round no doubt with an appropriate risk weighting in a mathematical calculation. Ernie Adams had started his own investment firm before working for the Pats and coached in the NFL. We think a guy that had a few years of consulting experience should be put in an equivalent role leading our analysis efforts and we've seen the results.
In complex numbers games with limited resources math is your friend, we put a guy in charge that bucks the math and types on fake computers at people who have the audacity to suggest more math might be helpful.
And that's really the larger problem. The Giants, Gettleman, think they are smarter than everyone else and know things other teams don't. I'm of the belief that everyone has different perspectives and can add value and proper systems accumulate and distribute knowledge. The Giants as an organization are over confident and overconfidence makes you prone to errors.
The Giants brass seems to like authority and their big "culture" purge was clearly against anyone speaking out but sometimes people just tell you what you want to hear. The Pats authority is respected not because BB is willing to cut ties with anyone, it's that top to bottom the decisions of the team are respected. Our GM being a laughing stock in public. Our team being lost for years. You can bring someone in to threaten players for not showing up sure but until you show competence it doesn't matter how authoritative you are. DG isn't respected by a lot of the media, a lot of the fan base, the owners and franchise are losing respect. THAT is the real problem not some threat of being cut, because there is zero Giants pride at this point.
The sum of our decisions from the top have added up to the same bad results on the field for a long time now, and we have made no changes at the top, none. DG was as far from a change as could be and it's showing right now. Judge can only do so much, no one should forget that BB the most talented coach of our time failed in his first stint. With different structures in place, owners, research etc. he was able to succeed.
Can anyone make a remotely good case that we have the right structures in place right now?
I hope Judge is a miracle worker but it's disappointing to see stain after stain on this franchise and the same people in charge. I don't know how the defenders of these people find the energy but bully to them.
Why would anyone pick in the first round a player with BAD WORK Ethics or HABITS.
First round? How about first overall.You remember a guy named Jadaveon Clowney?
That was a head scratcher for me. Leading up to the draft everyone was predicting him #1 and I'm thinking, "No, that can't be, how could you use the first overall pick and give a kid that kind of money whose excuse for a bad year was that he was guarding against injury?"
There are three reasons for a prospect with "generational" talent having an unproductive final year in college: 1) He's not as good as his talent suggests he should be; 2) Lack of effort; 3) He was playing through an injury. Reason #3 is the only acceptable reason and even then it would give me pause when it comes to the first overall pick. But I digress.
As I pointed out in an earlier comment, Reuben Foster is an even more glaring example of a team gambling and losing when they traded up into the bottom of the 1st round for a prospect with a top 10-15 grade but red flags attached. The Niners rebounded pretty well from that mistake.
My take on it is similar to what others have said (including Sy, I think): Gettleman had so many picks he felt like he was playing with the house money when he traded up. It was a chance to get the #1 CB on their board with the 5th year option included. I think if the Giants were without all the additional picks, he doesn't make that move.
I'm not saying Gettleman doesn't deserve criticism, but the stars were aligned perfectly for taking the kind of gamble he did. Sometimes these gambles pay off in a big way. It was a gamble when Miami took Tunsil. It was a gamble when the Bucs took Warren Sapp. It was a gamble when the Vikings took Randy Moss. All three of those guys fell because of red flags. Those are first round gambles on greatness that paid off. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes the blues get a hold of you... It's gonna be a sweet season! - ( New Window )
Am I right in thinking that the only 1st round pick made by Reese to sign a second contract with the Giants without going to another team first was JPP.
If this turns out to be true this is an organizational failure.
There must have been no real homework done on this pick. The guy has a bad attitude from day one where he doesn't need to pay attention during practice. Now he is involved with this? Either they have no connections or they didn't do any investigation. That doesn't even get into his play on the field.
the only way the people at the top will change is if they sell the team- not happening, so it might be time to root elsewhere. Taking a chance on Baker was not the problem. Using 3 draft choices to get him was. If he fell to 38 and they took him and this happened, those are the breaks. Guys bust for a variety of reasons. NO ONE could see this coming. Anyone who thinks they would have drafted this guy at all if they thought this might happen is crazy.
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
Am I right in thinking that the only 1st round pick made by Reese to sign a second contract with the Giants without going to another team first was JPP.
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
Every time anything happens to Giants, DG is bad mouthed by too many
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
Don’t recall any reports of him in college regarding potential violence - lazy, yes maybe a knucklehead at times, but nothing like this
I don’t recall Accorsi getting fired for Jeremiah Parker getting convicted for his part in the death of his girlfriends 4 year old
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Maybe...
I can tell you that in prior years, we had guys running free because of the DC's scheme and it was not as much about the player's ability.
Like you are giving him a pass already?
You've spent a majority of the day blaming Gettleman for picking Baker. Why the fuck do you have to wait for anything that happens on the field?
I agree he shouldn’t get a pass. Go figure out a plan.
Baker not working out will have a big impact. Whether as a bust or in jail.
Quote:
If they are still letting guys run free in the secondary in the near future, I’m not giving him a pass because of this.
Like you are giving him a pass already?
You've spent a majority of the day blaming Gettleman for picking Baker. Why the fuck do you have to wait for anything that happens on the field?
Are you saying someone else made the pick?
I’m not following.
Busting out on a first round pick sucks. Busting out on a first round pick in less than 16 months sucks a a lot. It’s hard to win that way. Just ask Jerry Reese.
Look out for Gettleman behind the wheel of a white Ford Bronco.
Quote:
Why hasn’t he turned himself in yet? This is not going to turn out well.
Look out for Gettleman behind the wheel of a white Ford Bronco.
Ha!
Yup... lost in all the commotion, he's still at large.
Doesn't explain the getaway cars though
I'm disappointed to lose a 1st rounder like this, it really sucks. And we will never know how good he could have been. Kind of like David Wilson, but for different reasons. I wasn't a fan of drafting him either, and he didn't have the best rookie year. But i was excited to see what he could do and its just too bad we never got to find out how good he could have been. I feel bad for David, i don't feel anything for DeAndre but disappointment.
Quote:
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
https://twitter.com/AndySlater/status/1261401689556467712?s=20
JUST IN: Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar, accused of armed robbery, has letters from the alleged victims saying he was not involved.
“I can’t believe Miramar PD did a virtual touchdown dance without investigating further,” his attorney Michael Grieco tells me.
5:02 PM · May 15, 2020·Twitter for
Maybe it’s not baker either?
That would be awesome.
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
Quote:
"Janoris has a bunch of puppies he's got to train," Gettleman told reporters.
Turns out Jenkiks, who dogged it on the field, and got suspended for not showing up to work after the bye week once -- really turned out to be an example for Baker as a professional.
Again, if culture is a focal point for the Giants, I hope Judge is a little better at this stuff.
the guy who had a dead body in his house and got kicked out of florida (florida!) was the mentor
If that doesn't parse for some, I'd suggest moving your heart out of the thought process.
My thoughts exactly.
Quote:
a few days ago. Sat down to play another game, and they won this time, but these guys didn't have the money so they "robbed" them. I'd imagine they were playing Booray and a pot got way out of hand. Pissed they paid and got taken two days ago and were stuck holding the bag they "robbed" these guys. Sounds like they were playing with some criminals possibly and these dudes probably figured what the fuck are some NFL guys going to do, they have too much to lose. Putting robbed in quotes because technically it sounds like they owed them the money. Not excusing what they did of course. When keeping it real goes wrong like you read about.
Doesn't explain the getaway cars though
That was a report from witnesses there which sounded like absolute bullshit. The people there are trying to cover their own asses as well. "Lost money to them? No idea what you are talking about officer they just took my watches for no reason".
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
This is how many warrants go down for high profile clients from football to white collar guys. They don't want a media shitstorm to be there when they get arrested.
Link - ( New Window )
@CameronWolfe
·
6m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming
Quote:
In comment 14903939 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
to account for a first round pick who now will be a bust and never really contribute? This move can be weighed against his other moves during his tenure, but the GM has no responsibility for this bust? All the vetting and interviews? All the research, the process? This is not picking teams in the schoolyard. He is responsible. Simple as that.
Is he responsible if Jones pans out and becomes a franchise QB? This was not a freak injury, this was a trade up first round pick who did not have the character to contribute to this team long term.
Bust
DG is responsible for him being on the team. And also responsible for the team as a whole, win or lose.
But he is not to blame for what happened because it didn’t come thru during a vetting.
There is a difference there that I don’t think you see.
Ok
Not sure what I am missing as this 1st round pick is now a bust and that is one of the worst things that can happen on a GM's watch.
I like Gettleman too. I like Jones which was all him and took balls and jettisoning Beckham, that took balls too.
I also like the vision he states for the team and hope he can make it happen.
This is a bust though. First round bust. Counts against the GM
I am a bit out of my element defending DG. There are others who do it so often it’s second nature.
I agree it’s a bust and it’s on his watch. I am just separating the statement that DG was responsible for what happened as stated in your posts.
Quote:
The absolute best outcome is Baker didn’t do what’s alleged, it’s a kick in his ass to get serious, and without a numbskull like Jenkins “mentoring” him — he has a productive career.
christian, love ya man, and we prolly disagree as much as agree, you're thoughtful, but here I think you're prolly grasping at straws, throw this man a life preserver!!
As is quite often the case, I’m pretty confident I’m wrong about this ^
But .. hope for the best?
@TomRock_Newsday
·
12m
Coming up on 24 hours since the arrest warrant for DeAndre Baker was announced and he has not yet turned himself in. Tania Rues of the Miramar PD tells me there has been communicaton with his attorney and "negotiations are taking place."
I’m obviously not a lawyer, but what does this all mean? Is Baker’s lawyer “negotiating” to not have him arrested? Is he negotiating bail, negotiating so he doesn’t have to turn himself in? What is being negotiated I just don’t get it? Also apparently Dunbar had sworn affidavits that he wasn’t involved from witnesses?
At what point will the police go to get him if he does not turn himself in? "It's a case by case basis... That's not something we disclose because we're not going to educate individuals who have arrest warrants on what our procedure will be."
But again, Rues says there has been contact with Baker's attorney and there are "negotiations taking place."
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
Which is nice, as Bill Murray might say.
We'll see who Baker gets.
As for Tony Pauline's "dumb as dirt" line, Pauline's been known to be creative with his alleged sources. I would not trust that anyone associated with the Giants actually made that comment.
As has been mentioned, Baker had a 22 Wonderlic score. Not Einstein but not dirt either.
wonderlic - ( New Window )
Probably bail amount
I said this from the moment DG joined the team and it is even more obvious today he may be the smartest guy in the room but that isn't as much of an asset today as it was even 10 years ago. The best decisions come from information platforms, decision making systems, cultures of innovation where new ideas are fostered.
Talk about being excited about Judge all you want but if you asked BB to build the systems he uses in New England fresh he'd probably have no idea, because he's a football guy, not a guy who hires software developers, builds complex value models or understands the talents and capabilities to do that. Judge is carrying what is clearly dead weight here and BB is lifted by someone like Ernie Adams and Kraft. From Ernie Adams wikipedia page
"Belichick got his next head coaching opportunity with the Patriots in 2000. This time, Adams joined the team not as a coach, but as "Football Research Director." Adams fills a variety of roles for the team. On gamedays, he assists the coaching staff from the press box, advising Belichick on which plays to issue a replay challenge.[1] He also assists the scouting department in preparing for the NFL Draft in the spring, and builds the team's player value chart for the draft.[1] Finally, Adams works on special assignments for the coaching and scouting staffs, which typically involve breaking down game tape.[1] In 2007, as part of Spygate, it was revealed that Adams received tapes from a "third camera" that recorded opponents' defensive signals from a location on the sideline, in violation of a league memo issued by commissioner Roger Goodell."
The Pats have an entrenched director of research who by all accounts is amazing at what he does so amazing that his boss Kraft was able to start a company no doubt derived from some of the models he build. It can't be stressed enough the value of doing something like building the draft value chart in a mathematical way. The Pats did take Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round no doubt with an appropriate risk weighting in a mathematical calculation. Ernie Adams had started his own investment firm before working for the Pats and coached in the NFL. We think a guy that had a few years of consulting experience should be put in an equivalent role leading our analysis efforts and we've seen the results.
In complex numbers games with limited resources math is your friend, we put a guy in charge that bucks the math and types on fake computers at people who have the audacity to suggest more math might be helpful.
And that's really the larger problem. The Giants, Gettleman, think they are smarter than everyone else and know things other teams don't. I'm of the belief that everyone has different perspectives and can add value and proper systems accumulate and distribute knowledge. The Giants as an organization are over confident and overconfidence makes you prone to errors.
The Giants brass seems to like authority and their big "culture" purge was clearly against anyone speaking out but sometimes people just tell you what you want to hear. The Pats authority is respected not because BB is willing to cut ties with anyone, it's that top to bottom the decisions of the team are respected. Our GM being a laughing stock in public. Our team being lost for years. You can bring someone in to threaten players for not showing up sure but until you show competence it doesn't matter how authoritative you are. DG isn't respected by a lot of the media, a lot of the fan base, the owners and franchise are losing respect. THAT is the real problem not some threat of being cut, because there is zero Giants pride at this point.
The sum of our decisions from the top have added up to the same bad results on the field for a long time now, and we have made no changes at the top, none. DG was as far from a change as could be and it's showing right now. Judge can only do so much, no one should forget that BB the most talented coach of our time failed in his first stint. With different structures in place, owners, research etc. he was able to succeed.
Can anyone make a remotely good case that we have the right structures in place right now?
I hope Judge is a miracle worker but it's disappointing to see stain after stain on this franchise and the same people in charge. I don't know how the defenders of these people find the energy but bully to them.
First round? How about first overall.You remember a guy named Jadaveon Clowney?
There are three reasons for a prospect with "generational" talent having an unproductive final year in college: 1) He's not as good as his talent suggests he should be; 2) Lack of effort; 3) He was playing through an injury. Reason #3 is the only acceptable reason and even then it would give me pause when it comes to the first overall pick. But I digress.
As I pointed out in an earlier comment, Reuben Foster is an even more glaring example of a team gambling and losing when they traded up into the bottom of the 1st round for a prospect with a top 10-15 grade but red flags attached. The Niners rebounded pretty well from that mistake.
My take on it is similar to what others have said (including Sy, I think): Gettleman had so many picks he felt like he was playing with the house money when he traded up. It was a chance to get the #1 CB on their board with the 5th year option included. I think if the Giants were without all the additional picks, he doesn't make that move.
I'm not saying Gettleman doesn't deserve criticism, but the stars were aligned perfectly for taking the kind of gamble he did. Sometimes these gambles pay off in a big way. It was a gamble when Miami took Tunsil. It was a gamble when the Bucs took Warren Sapp. It was a gamble when the Vikings took Randy Moss. All three of those guys fell because of red flags. Those are first round gambles on greatness that paid off. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes the blues get a hold of you...
It's gonna be a sweet season! - ( New Window )
Hopefully, Judge knows what he is doing.
@CameronWolfe
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44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
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Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
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44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
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In comment 14904044 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe
·
44m
Just spoke with Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's attorney, Michael Grieco, who says he has sworn affidavits from 5 witnesses that say Dunbar was not involved in the alleged armed robbery this week. Grieco says Miramar PD is still insisting that Dunbar turn himself in. More coming:
If Dunbar wasn't involved lets hope the same holds true for Baker. I mean, I am just blown away that someone could be this stupid? He is a rich young man why would he steal watches?
The whole thing seems off. Let’s hope this is all fake.
Maybe Baker and Dunbar were using water guns?