We don't need entitled, gun wielding, self centered players on this team. Let's release him when most appropriate to save as much cap space as we can and move on.
Play out. You have already determined he is guilty. Are you one of the people at this party? Did you see what happened? Or are you someone who rushes to judgement without having any facts? If you are the latter. You are a fool.
Well, if they murder someone, it's possible, but other than that NFL teams will keep 1st rounders for at least 2-3 years, even if they are complete busts. No GM wants to admit they blew a 1st round choice, that's a good way to get fired.
Here's a great example: Art Schlichter. GM's think they can fix guys, or in Jerry Jones's case, put "babysitters" with them to keep them out of trouble.
And if a GM releases a player who later becomes a star for another team, then they will never live it down. A good example is Michael Vick (Falcons/Eagles).
If this accusation is true, or even if a good chunk of it is true,
As others have said above, you find out what happened and take appropriate steps. Right now there are no practices. No games. No team meetings except over Zoom. No urgency to fix this. There's nothing to fix, really. Let nature take its course.
That will probably happen.....but there is a balance
As players would like to think your team has your back....to a point.
Bailing on Baker too early....gives a perception to the remaining players....that the team throws one out....without waiting for the entire story....at least let the player have his day in court.
Well, if they murder someone, it's possible, but other than that NFL teams will keep 1st rounders for at least 2-3 years, even if they are complete busts. No GM wants to admit they blew a 1st round choice, that's a good way to get fired.
Here's a great example: Art Schlichter. GM's think they can fix guys, or in Jerry Jones's case, put "babysitters" with them to keep them out of trouble.
And if a GM releases a player who later becomes a star for another team, then they will never live it down. A good example is Michael Vick (Falcons/Eagles).
Wow, didn’t realize the extent of Schlichter‘s issues. Jaw-dropping.
There is no reason to rush. Wait until the NFL investigates. There is no impact on the cap at this point. There is no additional commitment on the Giants part. I agree that from what I have read about his attitude and what I have read about this incident. I think he should be cut. However, the giants have plenty of time to make the decision.
Cutting him before June 1 would increase Bakers 2020 cap hit by
Play out. You have already determined he is guilty. Are you one of the people at this party? Did you see what happened? Or are you someone who rushes to judgement without having any facts? If you are the latter. You are a fool.
Stop it Big Blue, rational thinking is not always welcomed here.
RE: Cutting him before June 1 would increase Bakers 2020 cap hit by
$5.3mm. This may prevent us from resigning Golden. And all the facts in the case aren’t all in. The Giants should wait on this one.
You don't need to wait until 6/1 to designate a cut as post-6/1.
They do, however, need to wait for the legal system to advance the process a bit further so that they can nullify Baker's guaranteed money and potentially attempt to recoup his unamortized bonus money.
hear what the Giants have to say about this situation and if they’re going to stand by him until proven guilty. If charges don’t get dropped and this goes to trial, it could literally be many months before that occurs. He’ll still be a Giant, at least this year IMO. NFL will take action when and if he gets convicted of a crime.
Suppose this was a plot by a group of guys to extort money out of him thats owed? Probably not the case, but its feasible. We don’t know the truth right now (though we have a decent idea) and long term decisions don’t need to be made until we have more info.
Where I would agree is that even if he’s exonerated, he was still involved in something he probably shouldn’t have been. He still missed voluntary OTA’s and he still had a bad rap from last year. This is a perfect opportunity for Judge show the team he means business and bury the kid on the depth chart until he starts doing the things professionals do.
You watch them play. You aren’t part of the organization. They will do what they deem best for the team. You will complain or not and life will move on.
$5.3mm. This may prevent us from resigning Golden. And all the facts in the case aren’t all in. The Giants should wait on this one.
You don't need to wait until 6/1 to designate a cut as post-6/1.
They do, however, need to wait for the legal system to advance the process a bit further so that they can nullify Baker's guaranteed money and potentially attempt to recoup his unamortized bonus money.
This
RE: If this accusation is true, or even if a good chunk of it is true,
As others have said above, you find out what happened and take appropriate steps. Right now there are no practices. No games. No team meetings except over Zoom. No urgency to fix this. There's nothing to fix, really. Let nature take its course.
Yeah but...
For Deandre Baker (if reports are accurate) there was no participation in the zoom meetings, either.
With anew coach in town who seems cut from the Coughlin disciplinarian mold.
Due process is there to keep the innocent from being wrongly jailed ... and if it’s judged not guilty then so be it ... but the OP is still spot on. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire ... We don’t need this headache in the rebuild. Bite the bullet now and move on.
The record of that night is pretty damning, and a cop used the phone of a life-long friend of Baker's to try to talk to him, and he hung up the call, and additionally, the friend gave a statement about what happened.
Of course he can get witness affidavits signed saying he didn't do it, never happened. But it's pretty transparent what did actually happen, which doesn't mean he'll take the rap for it.
Lol. Or we could see how the legal process plays plays out and see how Judge and staff can manage him.
Cocaine users, domestic abusers, guys who pee in their wife's suitcases, guys who hide in the closet and tape their wife's sister, guys who get DUIs are no Giants too, right?
Holy crap have not been on BBI in quite some time..
Log in and looks like a complete disaster this
kid should have the world in his hands . I have no
idea this even happened . If so I'm rolling my eyes
we moved up for this guy right ? I thought it was
a good move he was one of the best rated CB's in
the draft now this .. These kids never learn ..
More dark times and a horrible pick ...
The record of that night is pretty damning, and a cop used the phone of a life-long friend of Baker's to try to talk to him, and he hung up the call, and additionally, the friend gave a statement about what happened.
Of course he can get witness affidavits signed saying he didn't do it, never happened. But it's pretty transparent what did actually happen, which doesn't mean he'll take the rap for it.
The police should just lock him up, and have the judge sentence him.
I’m at a loss by now the Giants should have looked into the incident and know about as much as the police. I’m not 100% sure he is guilty of all charges but you don’t make these kinds of stories or events up. Just ask yourself how many of us have gone to a backyard party and ended up in a gun robbery scene? Not to mention he should be practicing social distancing and stay at home to be safe.
Until proven guilty . He remains a Giant . As for the case, a friend who is a retired police detective told me he suspects this is a plot that was recreated from the” Gunsmoke” television series . 2 guys find out they were cheated playing cards , then go out to hold up the perpetrators of the act to get their money back . If so, sorry , it doesn’t work like that . It’s half an OJ II: “Ain’t nobody getting out of here mo-fo until I get my money back ! ”
Baker’s attorney will present corroborating witnesses who will counter the prosecutor’s case . Where this goes nobody knows . NFL rang the bell 3 times this week . One Catch Per Game Lattimer takes target practice at the home & Ed Oliver gets a dubee & illegal possession of a firearm .
When all is said and done, I think he walks with no felonies but
may be convicted of "lesser" (stupidity) things and therefore suspended by the NFL. If he returns to the team after 4 or whatever games and shows he "LEARNED" from his mistakes then you definitely keep him. If he plays "victim" and doesn't practice hard well you just made the decision easy, no year 3. Or you cut him a game or two shy of season's end to send a message to the team.
when this become a team of saints?
Our beloved Giants have had their share of less than stellar character guys for years.
ever sports team walks the line on talent vs. character.
course and let the professionals who are investigating the course determine if hes innocent or guilty and shut the fuck up.
You're right.
Eric, can you please shut down the message board? Rory says we're not allowed to talk about things that are ongoing but undetermined, even if they're Giants-related.
but going on the assumption that he was falsely accused, i'd like anyone to try to put yourself in his shoes. You're falsely accused, and arrest warrant is put out, and then the newspapers get it. I cant imagine how awful that feels. And IF he did absolutely nothing, you're going to have people who never believe that.
but going on the assumption that he was falsely accused, i'd like anyone to try to put yourself in his shoes. You're falsely accused, and arrest warrant is put out, and then the newspapers get it. I cant imagine how awful that feels. And IF he did absolutely nothing, you're going to have people who never believe that.
I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but to my knowledge, people typically don't get falsely accused by staying home and staying out of questionable situations in the first place. At a bare minimum, Baker has exercised extremely bad judgment by even being at the party where this incident allegedly occurred - and no one has denied that the party itself did happen.
Add to that his continued work ethic issues by skipping team meetings all last week, and, while I'm hopeful that Baker gets exonerated if he is in fact innocent, I honestly don't care if he ever plays for the Giants again.
Quote:Add to that his continued work ethic issues by skipping team meetings all last week, and, while I'm hopeful that Baker gets exonerated if he is in fact innocent, I honestly don't care if he ever plays for the Giants again. [/quote]
He was told by the Giants to skip the meetings in order to focus on his legal issues. I've seen no evidence of him skipping meetings just for the fuck of it.
Quote:Add to that his continued work ethic issues by skipping team meetings all last week, and, while I'm hopeful that Baker gets exonerated if he is in fact innocent, I honestly don't care if he ever plays for the Giants again.
He was told by the Giants to skip the meetings in order to focus on his legal issues. I've seen no evidence of him skipping meetings just for the fuck of it.
Baker did not participate in any of the Zoom meetings the Giants held prior to the incident that led up to his arrest.
yes its a Giants board and its big news but I have to wonder if its because you want another feather in the "down with DG" cap.
And if its not that then what is it? Why wouldn't you root for him to turn things around?
I'll continue to root for the Giants, and as long as he's on the Giants, I'll root for him to play well.
I just think there's an underlying maturity issue here that is likely going to interfere with him reaching his potential. And I think his lack of responsibility and accountability even aside from the alleged robbery incident may ultimately lead to the team parting ways with him.
If I'm being completely honest about it, I do think the robbery incident could potentially give the Giants a chance to get out from under the guaranteed money in his contract, and because of his attitude and work ethic issues that have still been present as recently as last week, part of me thinks it would be in the Giants' best interest for the guarantees to be voided so that they can get out of that contract in the most beneficial manner to them - whether that's in the next few weeks, or the next time Baker dozes off in a team meeting.
But it's not about a feather in the cap in some sort of crusade against DG. I have said repeatedly that I think DG has done a very good job this offseason, and that I think DG and Judge make a much more effective tandem than DG and Shurmur did.
When it came time to trade OBJ, one of the things we heard was that the Giants didn't want to have his influence on the younger teammates or to have him create a distraction with a rookie QB. At the time, I was disappointed because of the physical talent OBJ possessed, but I've come to realize that the value of the locker room during a rebuild was greater than the value of one single player.
With that in mind, and with so many young players in the secondary, I have reservations about Baker being on the team and continuing to be a pain in the ass. I don't especially believe his attorney that he's supposedly "scared straight" because everybody walks the straight and narrow right after they get in trouble.
I do disagree with DG trading up to get a guy who did have some character flags entering the draft; I think the mistake there was either trusting Shurmur's staff to be able to get through to Baker, or DG thinking that he had already assembled a roster with the right culture to set a strong enough example for Baker to follow. Either way, that part is done. I stand by my POV that drafting Baker has been a mistake so far, that he has demonstrated that the maturity and work ethic flags on him were accurate. But I don't expect DG to bat 1.000, and I'm not opposed to giving DG kudos where they're deserved, even if there are mistakes along the way - there will always be mistakes along the way.
If Baker winds up being innocent here, and does turn his career around, I'll be glad to admit I was wrong. I'm just doubtful that I'll have to do that. Trouble tends to find people who choose not to avoid it. Baker hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll avoid trouble going forward other than some predictable lawyer talk.
It's literally the biggest story right now about the Giants and this is a Giants message board, as you noted.
And, oh by the way, see if you can find me a Baker thread that I posted on that you did not. It'll probably be about the same number of times that I've used the term "blind followers."
could have just left it at your previous post that actually explained your stance but you left out the part that makes you annoying to interact with - glad you added that, very productive.
Everyone is posting on the Baker threads. But you seem convinced that he's doomed as a player for good and you let us all know about it every chance you get. Maybe you are right, you can also be wrong. I'd like to think he can turn his life around and I'll default to Judge on telling me all I need to know about his chances off sticking on the Giants and hopefully succeeding.
could have just left it at your previous post that actually explained your stance but you left out the part that makes you annoying to interact with - glad you added that, very productive.
Everyone is posting on the Baker threads. But you seem convinced that he's doomed as a player for good and you let us all know about it every chance you get. Maybe you are right, you can also be wrong. I'd like to think he can turn his life around and I'll default to Judge on telling me all I need to know about his chances off sticking on the Giants and hopefully succeeding.
Just so we're clear, it's ok for you to call me out for the frequency of my posts on a particular topic, but it's not ok for me to point out that you have posted equally as often about the same topic?
That makes me annoying to interact with? Ok. It makes you a hypocrite.
you let everyone know that Baker has a bad track record and don't care if he's gone. Completely strange how often you do it - its like you want him to fail.
And that wasn't what I was talking about (the interaction part)
That's just dumb
Here's a great example: Art Schlichter. GM's think they can fix guys, or in Jerry Jones's case, put "babysitters" with them to keep them out of trouble.
And if a GM releases a player who later becomes a star for another team, then they will never live it down. A good example is Michael Vick (Falcons/Eagles).
As others have said above, you find out what happened and take appropriate steps. Right now there are no practices. No games. No team meetings except over Zoom. No urgency to fix this. There's nothing to fix, really. Let nature take its course.
Bailing on Baker too early....gives a perception to the remaining players....that the team throws one out....without waiting for the entire story....at least let the player have his day in court.
Here's a great example: Art Schlichter. GM's think they can fix guys, or in Jerry Jones's case, put "babysitters" with them to keep them out of trouble.
And if a GM releases a player who later becomes a star for another team, then they will never live it down. A good example is Michael Vick (Falcons/Eagles).
Wow, didn’t realize the extent of Schlichter‘s issues. Jaw-dropping.
Stop it Big Blue, rational thinking is not always welcomed here.
You don't need to wait until 6/1 to designate a cut as post-6/1.
They do, however, need to wait for the legal system to advance the process a bit further so that they can nullify Baker's guaranteed money and potentially attempt to recoup his unamortized bonus money.
Where I would agree is that even if he’s exonerated, he was still involved in something he probably shouldn’t have been. He still missed voluntary OTA’s and he still had a bad rap from last year. This is a perfect opportunity for Judge show the team he means business and bury the kid on the depth chart until he starts doing the things professionals do.
Quote:
$5.3mm. This may prevent us from resigning Golden. And all the facts in the case aren’t all in. The Giants should wait on this one.
You don't need to wait until 6/1 to designate a cut as post-6/1.
They do, however, need to wait for the legal system to advance the process a bit further so that they can nullify Baker's guaranteed money and potentially attempt to recoup his unamortized bonus money.
This
As others have said above, you find out what happened and take appropriate steps. Right now there are no practices. No games. No team meetings except over Zoom. No urgency to fix this. There's nothing to fix, really. Let nature take its course.
Yeah but...
For Deandre Baker (if reports are accurate) there was no participation in the zoom meetings, either.
With anew coach in town who seems cut from the Coughlin disciplinarian mold.
I doubt Baker's gonna get much leash asa Giant.
Due process is there to keep the innocent from being wrongly jailed ... and if it’s judged not guilty then so be it ... but the OP is still spot on. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire ... We don’t need this headache in the rebuild. Bite the bullet now and move on.
The record of that night is pretty damning, and a cop used the phone of a life-long friend of Baker's to try to talk to him, and he hung up the call, and additionally, the friend gave a statement about what happened.
Of course he can get witness affidavits signed saying he didn't do it, never happened. But it's pretty transparent what did actually happen, which doesn't mean he'll take the rap for it.
Cocaine users, domestic abusers, guys who pee in their wife's suitcases, guys who hide in the closet and tape their wife's sister, guys who get DUIs are no Giants too, right?
kid should have the world in his hands . I have no
idea this even happened . If so I'm rolling my eyes
we moved up for this guy right ? I thought it was
a good move he was one of the best rated CB's in
the draft now this .. These kids never learn ..
More dark times and a horrible pick ...
The record of that night is pretty damning, and a cop used the phone of a life-long friend of Baker's to try to talk to him, and he hung up the call, and additionally, the friend gave a statement about what happened.
Of course he can get witness affidavits signed saying he didn't do it, never happened. But it's pretty transparent what did actually happen, which doesn't mean he'll take the rap for it.
The police should just lock him up, and have the judge sentence him.
Baker’s attorney will present corroborating witnesses who will counter the prosecutor’s case . Where this goes nobody knows . NFL rang the bell 3 times this week . One Catch Per Game Lattimer takes target practice at the home & Ed Oliver gets a dubee & illegal possession of a firearm .
Bottom line: this just sucks for us fans.
Our beloved Giants have had their share of less than stellar character guys for years.
ever sports team walks the line on talent vs. character.
You're right.
Eric, can you please shut down the message board? Rory says we're not allowed to talk about things that are ongoing but undetermined, even if they're Giants-related.
I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but to my knowledge, people typically don't get falsely accused by staying home and staying out of questionable situations in the first place. At a bare minimum, Baker has exercised extremely bad judgment by even being at the party where this incident allegedly occurred - and no one has denied that the party itself did happen.
Add to that his continued work ethic issues by skipping team meetings all last week, and, while I'm hopeful that Baker gets exonerated if he is in fact innocent, I honestly don't care if he ever plays for the Giants again.
Here's a thought, he wouldn't be the first guy to wake up and turn his career around. And didn't we hire Judge to teach?
Ohh and the OP sucks by the way, nothing like jumping to conclusions.
Here's a thought, he wouldn't be the first guy to wake up and turn his career around. And didn't we hire Judge to teach?
Ohh and the OP sucks by the way, nothing like jumping to conclusions.
It's not like I'm dredging up work ethic issues from years ago. He was skipping all team meetings LAST WEEK.
I guess he'd need to go on a boat trip instead to get you to stop rooting for him?
Quote:Add to that his continued work ethic issues by skipping team meetings all last week, and, while I'm hopeful that Baker gets exonerated if he is in fact innocent, I honestly don't care if he ever plays for the Giants again. [/quote]
He was told by the Giants to skip the meetings in order to focus on his legal issues. I've seen no evidence of him skipping meetings just for the fuck of it.
And if its not that then what is it? Why wouldn't you root for him to turn things around?
Quote:Add to that his continued work ethic issues by skipping team meetings all last week, and, while I'm hopeful that Baker gets exonerated if he is in fact innocent, I honestly don't care if he ever plays for the Giants again.
He was told by the Giants to skip the meetings in order to focus on his legal issues. I've seen no evidence of him skipping meetings just for the fuck of it.
Baker did not participate in any of the Zoom meetings the Giants held prior to the incident that led up to his arrest.
And if its not that then what is it? Why wouldn't you root for him to turn things around?
I'll continue to root for the Giants, and as long as he's on the Giants, I'll root for him to play well.
I just think there's an underlying maturity issue here that is likely going to interfere with him reaching his potential. And I think his lack of responsibility and accountability even aside from the alleged robbery incident may ultimately lead to the team parting ways with him.
If I'm being completely honest about it, I do think the robbery incident could potentially give the Giants a chance to get out from under the guaranteed money in his contract, and because of his attitude and work ethic issues that have still been present as recently as last week, part of me thinks it would be in the Giants' best interest for the guarantees to be voided so that they can get out of that contract in the most beneficial manner to them - whether that's in the next few weeks, or the next time Baker dozes off in a team meeting.
But it's not about a feather in the cap in some sort of crusade against DG. I have said repeatedly that I think DG has done a very good job this offseason, and that I think DG and Judge make a much more effective tandem than DG and Shurmur did.
When it came time to trade OBJ, one of the things we heard was that the Giants didn't want to have his influence on the younger teammates or to have him create a distraction with a rookie QB. At the time, I was disappointed because of the physical talent OBJ possessed, but I've come to realize that the value of the locker room during a rebuild was greater than the value of one single player.
With that in mind, and with so many young players in the secondary, I have reservations about Baker being on the team and continuing to be a pain in the ass. I don't especially believe his attorney that he's supposedly "scared straight" because everybody walks the straight and narrow right after they get in trouble.
I do disagree with DG trading up to get a guy who did have some character flags entering the draft; I think the mistake there was either trusting Shurmur's staff to be able to get through to Baker, or DG thinking that he had already assembled a roster with the right culture to set a strong enough example for Baker to follow. Either way, that part is done. I stand by my POV that drafting Baker has been a mistake so far, that he has demonstrated that the maturity and work ethic flags on him were accurate. But I don't expect DG to bat 1.000, and I'm not opposed to giving DG kudos where they're deserved, even if there are mistakes along the way - there will always be mistakes along the way.
If Baker winds up being innocent here, and does turn his career around, I'll be glad to admit I was wrong. I'm just doubtful that I'll have to do that. Trouble tends to find people who choose not to avoid it. Baker hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll avoid trouble going forward other than some predictable lawyer talk.
And, oh by the way, see if you can find me a Baker thread that I posted on that you did not. It'll probably be about the same number of times that I've used the term "blind followers."
Everyone is posting on the Baker threads. But you seem convinced that he's doomed as a player for good and you let us all know about it every chance you get. Maybe you are right, you can also be wrong. I'd like to think he can turn his life around and I'll default to Judge on telling me all I need to know about his chances off sticking on the Giants and hopefully succeeding.
Everyone is posting on the Baker threads. But you seem convinced that he's doomed as a player for good and you let us all know about it every chance you get. Maybe you are right, you can also be wrong. I'd like to think he can turn his life around and I'll default to Judge on telling me all I need to know about his chances off sticking on the Giants and hopefully succeeding.
Just so we're clear, it's ok for you to call me out for the frequency of my posts on a particular topic, but it's not ok for me to point out that you have posted equally as often about the same topic?
That makes me annoying to interact with? Ok. It makes you a hypocrite.
But as one boss used to famously say to our group "Hope is not a strategy".