Generally speaking, having a gun in your vehicle is legal in Texas as long as it's not in open view. The article says the gun was found in a search. There must be more to the story.
Is a sad week for the NFL the owners and commissioner need to put the hammer down. It’s zero tolerance on physical abusing this guns of Dodge City needs to be addressed immediately.
The saying “idle hands are the devils playground” comes to mind. Bunch of young guys with a lot of money and nothing but time to kill.
For those of us that have older kids, HS, college, post college...Its not just these rich athletes. My older kids are going crazy and it takes its toll.
Not saying its right, just saying people need to be active, busy, engaged, social or they start to drift.
Locking down society indefinitely is a terrible idea. And I say this as an ER nurse
You're proving my point in your reply when you say "people that are more prone to bad decisions". In other words, these are idiots who would have made bad decisions at some point in their lives...with or without a lockdown.
I know tons of people that made bad decisions when they were younger that grew out of it. Lots of risk taker types, which I imagine the NFL is full of. He's a 22 year old from Texas. Newsflash they don't view guns the way that people do in NYC. It's not illegal to have unregistered guns.
No mini camps sitting around in quarantine leaves those prone to it too much time, money and opportunity to get into trouble.
I don’t agree. Keeping to an NFL training schedules shouldnt be needed to keep you from breaking the law. Shit excuse - what about the rest of us? Heck what about athletes in every other sport?
I’m not making excuses for anyone. But young guys, many of which were just passed right through school because of their athletic abilities, lots of cash, no organized team activities, bad influences all around in some cases, and nothing to do. This can lead to trouble.
I see blind supporters of DG are out here with all the knee slappers today.
The teams play on the field has been a joke and not a funny one. The Bills have been flat out better than us and that’s as a very middling franchise. People aren’t getting this part of it at all, every team takes character risks.
How can anyone say “this team held together well” according to what metric? DGs gumption meter? Well we’ve been losing consistently but the gumption ratings have been off the chart!!
No. See what some people can’t seem to get into their heads is that DG cares more about who talks or questions authority than even the idea that the team hasn’t done the right things to earn respect. Doesn’t have the right leaders in the building.
That’s how the losses pile up. That’s how you find yourself on the wrong end of stories time and time again. Culture isn’t about plucking all the good apples, that’s a fairy tale. It’s about creating a succinct vision that everyone wants to follow and as much as a head coach plays a huge role in that it starts higher.
Again, joke all you want but in my experience there isn’t a sign of a more pervasive culture problem than someone declaring themselves able to solve culture problems by getting out the ax.
That’s why Gettleman was passed over for the Giants the first time, that’s why he had a very short stint for a GM in Carolina and that’s why we are where we are now. DG and the broader Giants leadership have a problem of austerity and close mindedness.
The irony in this thread that all the jokesters don’t seem to grasp is that Buffalo has been one of the worst franchises of the last few decades. If the barometer for us is we make the same mistakes as them but have worse overall results, our expectations for appropriate measuring sticks have really plummeted.
What on earth are you taking about? So take all the arrests/legal troubles in the NFL and divide them by 3 and see if it still comes close to how much fewer there are in NBA.
I view the Bills as currently one of the best run franchises in the league. I would trade the Bills front office and coaches for ours in literally a nanosecond.
I don’t “blindly” support Dave Gettelman. I happen to think he isn’t the end all be all for everything wrong with this organization. And seeing the Ed Oliver news is extremely unfortunate but an example of how the vetting process is imperfect. And it isn’t just bad franchises it’s good ones too. How’s that Earl Thomas fella? Sounds like a piece of shit to me. Plenty of successful franchises make mistakes on character - but they’ve got a system in place to make up for it.
I think the Bills are showing a lot of promise. But in recent history they are middle of the pack maybe upper middle based on tangible results. Obviously in the last 20 years one of the worst though.
my consistent lack of faith in DG as the solution since the day he was hired is looking incredibly valid right now. As are a lot of the points I’ve been making along the way.
I wake up every morning glad to be alive and healthy. Being miserable about the sports teams I follow isn’t high on my list. Whether Gettelman fixes this team or not my demeanor towards the Giants won’t change. Thanks for asking though, I hope you find happiness soon.
What on earth are you taking about? So take all the arrests/legal troubles in the NFL and divide them by 3 and see if it still comes close to how much fewer there are in NBA.
The excuse making on this one is mind boggling.
You don’t think teams keep an eye on their players, especially the good ones? Players are investments for the owners. Smaller rosters mean it’s easier to protect the investments. Just because you don’t see as many news headlines about NBA players being in trouble doesn’t meant it isn’t happening. I know it’s a television show but guys like Ray Donovan exist in real life as well.
And I agree with another poster that pointed out the low rate of crime when you look at the whole league. The fact that you have three incidents in one weekend is more coincidence than anything in my opinion.
Uconn: "I don’t agree. Shit excuse - what about the rest of us?"
You're conflating cause and effect with 'excuse'. Like it or not a larger cross section of NFL players come from higher crime environments than the norm. I'm not justifying or rationalizing the behavior but that isn't needed to accept the phenomena is happening.
I have a fantastic partner. Work I’m passionate about that I can do on my schedule with people I choose who I have fun around and respect. I’m close with my family so many great friends in different places.
I just happen to think people doing a crappy job working on something I care about deserve to be called out and the problem needs to be rectified. This doesn’t happen by downplaying said problem.
I’ve been highlighting these problems for years and been extremely validated by what’s transpired. You on the other hand keep on acting like the people that are questioning things are overreacting even as someone like me and the concerns coming to life I actually prognosticated. Like in game technology relationships and the value of integrating advanced data like SportsVu for this and larger value models.
You can mode something like the psychology behind work ethic into traditional stats. The Pats have used methods like this under Ernie Adams for a long time.
Don’t conflate me being pissed off about this with anything else. My happy life affords me the energy to try to take on causes I care about. Like people like you giving the team too much slack actually propping up the legitimacy of a feckless regime.
It’s funny because I used to be a miserable fan that thought
every move stunk prior to the run we went on. And now I realize how fruitless that was, and how me thinking a move stinks doesn’t matter.
I can spend time picking apart moves my teams make all day if I want. I choose not to because I don’t get anything out of it, just isn’t very fun. So chalk that up to whatever cute term you want to address people with who aren’t heavily criticizing every move (which is a shitty way to start a conversation I might add).
you really think you nailed things on the head, don't ya?
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That’s why Gettleman was passed over for the Giants the first time, that’s why he had a very short stint for a GM in Carolina and that’s why we are where we are now. DG and the broader Giants leadership have a problem of austerity and close mindedness.
You know why Gettleman was passed over? You know that he was even under consideration?
But furthermore, what did you mean by Gettleman had a very short stint for a GM in Carolina?
The Panthers have had 6 GM's in their history. Exactly one of them had longer stint than Gettleman! One. Marty Hurney.
The average tenure of a GM is 3 years. Granted, that includes a lot who flame out immediately, but even then - the terrible Gettleman beat that out.
For a guy who talks analytics, you are really, really shitty at comparative statistics.
Glad you could give definitive insight into his time in Carolina - a subject you continually swing and miss at.
every move stunk prior to the run we went on. And now I realize how fruitless that was, and how me thinking a move stinks doesn’t matter.
I can spend time picking apart moves my teams make all day if I want. I choose not to because I don’t get anything out of it, just isn’t very fun. So chalk that up to whatever cute term you want to address people with who aren’t heavily criticizing every move (which is a shitty way to start a conversation I might add).
I can totally understand just going with the flow and hoping that every move works out, honestly I can.
If you have taken that path, what do you get out of arguing on the internet against people who are still thinking critically? Why bother? That just seems like misery with extra steps
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
What is it with supposed “analytics experts” on this site? Every single one of them are insufferable windbags. They all think they are the smartest guy in the room, constantly patting themselves on the back for what they perceive as them being “right” and have an arrogance that just makes you want to bitch slap the shit out of them. They aren’t half as smart as they think they are but they are so caught up in their own bloviiating that they have no idea how insufferable they are. NGD is one of the main culprits but he’s certainly not alone. Complete clowns
good question. I guess I’m fascinated by it. Outside of the Baker thread I’ve tried staying off threads about Gettelman because they’ve grown tiresome.
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
What is it with supposed “analytics experts” on this site? Every single one of them are insufferable windbags. They all think they are the smartest guy in the room, constantly patting themselves on the back for what they perceive as them being “right” and have an arrogance that just makes you want to bitch slap the shit out of them. They aren’t half as smart as they think they are but they are so caught up in their own bloviiating that they have no idea how insufferable they are. NGD is one of the main culprits but he’s certainly not alone. Complete clowns
BBS. I was talking to a few other BBI'ers and when the topic of analytics came up, two guys who are really knowledgeable about building sound data programs said the great irony of the analytics discussions here is that the loudest posters who claim to have analytic prowess continually show time and again that they have a terrible understanding of the subject
The only credit I give them is they sure are tenacious in sticking with the ignorance.
If I'm a guy who leans heavily on data-based arguments, I'd sure as hell get my facts straight about the role Gettleman played in Carolina and how he stacked up against his peers, but instead, I'll just get called a big old meany face!
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
What is it with supposed “analytics experts” on this site? Every single one of them are insufferable windbags. They all think they are the smartest guy in the room, constantly patting themselves on the back for what they perceive as them being “right” and have an arrogance that just makes you want to bitch slap the shit out of them. They aren’t half as smart as they think they are but they are so caught up in their own bloviiating that they have no idea how insufferable they are. NGD is one of the main culprits but he’s certainly not alone. Complete clowns
BBS. I was talking to a few other BBI'ers and when the topic of analytics came up, two guys who are really knowledgeable about building sound data programs said the great irony of the analytics discussions here is that the loudest posters who claim to have analytic prowess continually show time and again that they have a terrible understanding of the subject
The only credit I give them is they sure are tenacious in sticking with the ignorance.
If I'm a guy who leans heavily on data-based arguments, I'd sure as hell get my facts straight about the role Gettleman played in Carolina and how he stacked up against his peers, but instead, I'll just get called a big old meany face!
To be fair, the BBI analytics gurus spend a great deal of time performing their expertise analyzing LinkedIn profiles. I mean, they can only go by the data LinkedIn provides in their earnest analysis of someone’s qualifications and history. Must be LinkedIn told them Gettleman was a failure in Carolina? I mean, all the data is there! He wasn’t there long so he’s a failure! Who needs detail and perspective? Numbers tell it all. These guys have spent their entire lives analyzing numbers. Don’t argue within. There’s no room for logic and reasoning around here.
arguing that people are underrating the competence of a dumpster fire of an operation
The people I talked to with knowledge of the Giants thinking, those involved in it didn’t understand some very basic concepts in how to apply technology and the systems you’d need to apply that tech.
So am I surprised that a group of fans jerking each other off also don’t understand?
The people I talked to with knowledge of the Giants thinking, those involved in it didn’t understand some very basic concepts in how to apply technology and the systems you’d need to apply that tech.
There were some basic things about the team's structure you didn't even know when you started the crusade on analytics. Let me remind you that at one time, you stood by the belief that Carolina was doing nothing with analytics. You extended that belief to say the Giants weren't either.
So again - a guy who purports to make
data-based reasoning, doesn't even do basic research before spouting off.
Then the goalposts moved from the Giants not doing anything to them hiring a guy who had no credentials worthy of leading an analytic team, famously culled from LinkedIn. Meanwhile, while Siam's reputation was taking the brunt of your "research" you never even acknowledged that Jon Berger has been the team's Director of Football Information for 13 years
I've questioned you competence all along, now I guess we'll have to wonder who the fuck you've talked to "with knowledge of the Giants thinking".
Excuse me for a second - my bullshit monitor is going crazy!
What a large sample size of competence. In the last quarter of a century they’ve made the playoffs, what, 1 or 2 X? Well, we’ve sucked for most of the last 8 years. Thus, by my calculation, we have another 17 years to get our act together and become the model franchise Buffalo has become.
You misunderstand and mischaracterize like it’s your job
1) If you go back and read the first thread we got into it on analytics here. What I was saying about Gettleman being the wrong guy to have the Giants modernize turned out to be 100% correct. Gettleman admitted that he needed to "learn from his mistakes" at the end of the season. Gettleman said himself what I was concerned about turned out to be accurate. Where do you come off acting like you are anything but wrong yourself for acting like we were on top of this?
2) You spent the whole thread I shared, questioning how I could possibly know if the Giants needed to do more on the analytics front, who I was to question the mighty Giants? Now you mock me for using LinkedIn, Github and talking about my background when that's all we have to go on, the performance on the field, their code base, my qualifications and the peoples qualifications of the team. It was only your demands for a never-ending pile of evidence to support my points that we went down that road and no other reason.
3) The asinine point has been tossed around way too much if the Giants did do analytics. And I have continually pointed out that a pivot table is technically analytics and the idea that an organization would not "do analytics" in that sense today is insane, no one would ever claim that. The more relevant point is quality. You continually point out that Gettleman set up and "did analytics" in Carolina but in making his second attempt to build out a good technology analysis pipeline with the Giants he bucked the math and said from the above article "Barkley is 'an outlier' who “transcended such analytics." He doesn’t even understand the terms he is using, an outlier is not something you can predict it is something you uncover after the fact. If you can draw clear or formulaic lines to something, which is absolutely how decisions should be made, it isn’t an outlier. He's saying he knows more than the math and his attempts to articulate his reasoning included phrases like “touched by the hand of god” and poking fun at the kinds of people helping other teams stack wins while we stack losses. Part of the math of why RBs are valued less is they have durability concerns and competition gets by allocating less resources to them. The average of the top 10 G cap hits in the NFL is 21% higher than RB AND we were paying our aging immobile QB tons of money to try to win at the end of his career, a quick lesson in computer modeling and asset allocation. Saquon is the 8th highest paid RB and Quinton Nelson is the 25th highest paid G. Salary arbitrage and team building wins games. Not who is touched by the hand of god and who isn’t. The more important point is not if Gettleman “did analytics” or not in Carolina it is why should his opinion on technology matter? Why should he be leading a team in an industry that increasingly is integrating advanced technology? He clearly doesn’t have enough respect for the field, even if he has been forced to give it more credence don’t you want people leading modernization efforts to want to pursue it more naturally not in front of an angry mob of people they’ve disappointed?
4) Here is a clear line between Deandre Baker and advanced analytics. Ernie Adams is. responsible for making the Patriots final draft value model according to his Wikipedia page. They took Aaron Hernandez in the 4th, they take chances on a lot of players with character risks. They clearly have a way of modeling this. Gettleman is on record rejecting value-based models on their face with Saquon. When you get into more advanced analytics, as I have mentioned in threads recently you can blend psychological factors with traditional statistics to project a player. That’s why it’s laughable when you compare Baker Mayfield to Deandre Baker, he had his own set of issues, but his effort was never in question. To act like the risk of Baker Mayfield and Deandre Baker is in the same category is woefully inadequate analysis in the fields of both psychology and data science. Yet you claim to have a knowledge of the field and speak out on it so often. There are plenty of professional sports organizations doing this down to eye movements and electrical signals in the brain in addition to written or conversation syntax. Are models still wrong sometimes? Of course. But when you trade up for a player, acting like you know something the league doesn’t know when other teams like the Pats clearly have purely mathematical sanity checks on things like this it means you better be right. Furthermore, instead of declaring yourself some grand arbiter of what good culture is (this coming from someone again who was fired for difficult relationships with players in the past) other teams are putting together models including psychological factors into who might be fits on their teams. We hear a lot about JJ matching players to scheme but you can even start earlier and match players to your other players. I know shocking right? Believe it or not the world is not filled with good apples or bad apples waiting for our glorious leader DG to weigh in on their apple quality. There is more nuance and it is much more about fitting personalities into the group you have and to the strengths of your coaches.
5) Maybe our last two coaches looking bad has just as much to do with the front office supporting them as it does with them being the stupid villains who also were the best men for the job a short while before that. The funny thing about all of this as you again act like I have something to prove when you have never offered up any context on why your opinions in the technology field matter at all. While you have been acting like my posts are useless drivel they have gotten me information on actually what is going on inside the walls of the building through contacts I have formed on this board. I don't mind making statements like that because they are the truth and if they weren't i'm sure you'd relish sniffing them out. But you'd rather pretend like you know more through bluster instead of making real points. That's your MO.
One more overarching point:
Our record with Ty Siam running our analytics – 29-51
Title: Football operations analyst
Prior experience:
2 years and 10 months as a consultant
Ernie Adams
Title: Director of Football Research
Prior experience:
Worked as a coach’s assistant for 6 years
Director of Pro Personnel for 3
5 years as a Wall St. Trader
4 years running his own investment firm
This illustrates a simple point, why do we continue to have no evidence of technological qualifications at the top of our organization when there was an admission that we should have addressed this more? I do not claim to be the end all be all on technology, I posted a whole system architecture verified by another expert McL. A poster that I know offline came on to validate my background and expertise in this field. You don’t have to be an expert to know our staffing qualifications and codebase are disappointing and pairing that with our on field performance there is no defense for, the team knows its indefensible which is why they addressed that this offseason specifically. One thing that I do know with 100% certainty is these processes are iterative but the more systems leaders have built the more shortcuts you know. The 5 broad areas of expertise needed to build a system that can offer value-based assessments and real time recommendations for games are advanced mathematics, computer vision, software development, systems architecture, and product design. Gettleman and Siam can lead an effort where we fumble around with tools in the dirt like apes and try to evolve or you can bring in people that can speed up the process significantly because they’ve led technology efforts. And again, I want to be clear we do not have anyone on our senior staff who have built out systems harnessing expertise in ANY of those categories. A strong CTO would have expertise across those functions, but the fact remains bringing in “computer guys” with some of those skills is VASTLY different than having a director of research leading those efforts. We are behind and what we think is a viable solution to catch up was to let the guys that led us into falling behind to lead this new effort to modernize? How flawed is that logic?
Anyone with insider knowledge has supported that the Giants are all but ready to make Kevin Abrams the GM. That is a fatally flawed decision-making process based on clearly the wrong things. It would be one thing if we storm back into the playoffs this year and then we heard those whispers. But the fact that there is so much smoke there, after this terrible period in our history shows the Giants care more about loyalty and comfort than finding the best people in their front office. That has been demonstrated and that is what some people do not seem to care about and until more people do we might just stay in the cellar. The Baker situation is frustrating because we continue to throw up our hands and act like these are all honest mistakes but the "honest mistakes" keep stacking and downplaying them especially in conjunction is irresponsible. And that has nothing to do if Baker goes to jail or not and everything to do with why it is that a team with so many holes wanted this guy so much more than the rest of the NFL that we spent 3 picks on him?
you seriously when Point #1 is a complete fabrication. That wasn't the first discussion about analytics. The first was one where you assertively said Gettleman shunned analytics and didn't use them in Carolina. I showed evidence where he did. You ignored it. If you look later in the thread BrettNYG posts an excerpt showing what Carolina did.
That thread was prior to Tepper doing anything in Carolina. In the linked thread, Tepper has been there
But nevertheless, you asked about it again on the thread linked:
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3) If your stuff works people know about it, no matter how quiet you try to keep it. Can you show me any articles touting the systems he set up in Carolina? I can easily find stuff on the Jags, Pats, Eagles.
People see through the charade
Just look at two posts by EA:
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This is the kind of post that I refer to. Every. Single. NFL. Team. Uses. Analytics. The Giants do and heavily. I know this for a fact. They use predictive, they use modelling they track every snap of every player college and pro.
How far do you want to take it though? Clearly you're super committed to it as it's your profession and great for you but for me I think it is just a data point and it will always struggle to be as effective in football as in baseball for what I'm sure are very obvious reasons to you.
Still, you remain convinced the Giants refuse to modernise and the Jags, Eagles and others are mentioned. Do you think Coughlin suddenly became a numbers guy? No... he was for years at the giants. The Eagles are a smart org you say and the numbers told them... to hire Ben McAdoo. I note today Eli is top 4 in passes completed above expectation for example. To steal from the sage Bill2 you can torture the data into confessing any number of ways.
Ultimately numbers rarely tell you who is going to break out, who brings others together in a locker room and who brings something even greater than wins to a community. Football isn't wall street. It's a hugely complex interdependent operation more akin to predicting the weather than analysing trading patterns.
I think this roster is ill equipped for today's NFL. The organisation is not. Trust DG. He won't let you down and certainly not in the manner you suggest.
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I swear these threads are the absolute pits
English Alaister : 10/1/2018 3:30 pm : link
You bunch of dicks don't even have the first idea what loyalty entails. Instead we get threads like 'Do Gettleman and Schumer (presumably not Amy) deserve to be publicly lashed?' 'Is Vernon tougher than a 6 year old girl?' or this peach. It is no wonder posters like Fatman or B in ALB who has an idea what a pro locker room look like can't take any more of this nonsense. Don't even start me on bw and his jints central act which has routinely been a guide to a team about to go to a superbowl but is now scaling new levels of conjecture and hyperbole.
The reality is this. You cannot realistically expect to judge the owners over a 3 or 4 year period. Mistakes have been made and this is an unforgiving league intolerant of mistakes. I don't think anyone can refute that but the last 32 years have yielded 4 superbowls (and a fifth appearance) whereby statistically they should have yielded approximately one.
That is because the Giants way works. We are a good football organisation that routinely makes solid football decisions and allows people to succeed or fail with class. Meanwhile the same horrific posters who wanted to get rid of Coughlin for McAdoo but now fete him at Jacksonville ponder should they allow their "loyalty" to continue for a 5th week of a new regime. These people would have traded Eli for Fitzpatrick three times by now and wonder why they're still trophyless.
It's just embarrassing to be a part of this fanbase at times.
EA has extensive knowledge about analytics. He also knows some of my expertise, which I do not disclose, especially to asswipes like yourself. Meanwhile, you find ways to often work in your qualifications. Nuggets like this:
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I've been building predictive systems for financial institutions for 7 years now and I've seen inside many organizations.
You need to keep telling people your qualifications because a lot of people knowledgeable about analytics think you are full of shit and for some reason, you need to throw fake resumes around to appear to be an expert. I came to that conclusion early on in our interactions, yet you keep going like the Energizer Bunny.
You are the American Idol contestant who tells the judges how great they are before sounding like a dying coyote.
If are information is so good are our people that bad
There has to be some flaw in the system. You are glossing over the fact that I said they didn't have the right people to modernize they admitted this past off-season they did a bad job of modernizing and now you think the point is relevant to highlight again that they have the right people in place? Based on what?
I did too. In retrospect, the emphasis on his adulthood as a selling point now looks both silly and prescient.
He most certainly wasn't an effective leader, and isn't adulthood a complete given to be the head coach?
Perhaps related to the 911 call?
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That's 4 guys this week.
The saying “idle hands are the devils playground” comes to mind. Bunch of young guys with a lot of money and nothing but time to kill.
For those of us that have older kids, HS, college, post college...Its not just these rich athletes. My older kids are going crazy and it takes its toll.
Not saying its right, just saying people need to be active, busy, engaged, social or they start to drift.
You are allowed to go outside, the quarantine excuses I’m not buying.
Science!
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In comment 14905208 Zeke's Alibi said:
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In comment 14905140 BlueVinnie said:
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In comment 14905131 Ned In Atlanta said:
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Locking down society indefinitely is a terrible idea. And I say this as an ER nurse
You're proving my point in your reply when you say "people that are more prone to bad decisions". In other words, these are idiots who would have made bad decisions at some point in their lives...with or without a lockdown.
I know tons of people that made bad decisions when they were younger that grew out of it. Lots of risk taker types, which I imagine the NFL is full of. He's a 22 year old from Texas. Newsflash they don't view guns the way that people do in NYC. It's not illegal to have unregistered guns.
I agree. Not the same as Baker and Latimer. i
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No mini camps sitting around in quarantine leaves those prone to it too much time, money and opportunity to get into trouble.
I don’t agree. Keeping to an NFL training schedules shouldnt be needed to keep you from breaking the law. Shit excuse - what about the rest of us? Heck what about athletes in every other sport?
I’m not making excuses for anyone. But young guys, many of which were just passed right through school because of their athletic abilities, lots of cash, no organized team activities, bad influences all around in some cases, and nothing to do. This can lead to trouble.
This isn’t a quarantine issue, it’s an football/NFL issue.
This isn’t a quarantine issue, it’s an football/NFL issue.
There are less than 500 players in the NBA. There are over 1700 players in the NFL not including practice squads.
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getting in trouble like this?
This isn’t a quarantine issue, it’s an football/NFL issue.
There are less than 500 players in the NBA. There are over 1700 players in the NFL not including practice squads.
Exactly, it’s easier to keep track of 15-20 guys vs. 53-90 depending on the time of year.
The teams play on the field has been a joke and not a funny one. The Bills have been flat out better than us and that’s as a very middling franchise. People aren’t getting this part of it at all, every team takes character risks.
How can anyone say “this team held together well” according to what metric? DGs gumption meter? Well we’ve been losing consistently but the gumption ratings have been off the chart!!
No. See what some people can’t seem to get into their heads is that DG cares more about who talks or questions authority than even the idea that the team hasn’t done the right things to earn respect. Doesn’t have the right leaders in the building.
That’s how the losses pile up. That’s how you find yourself on the wrong end of stories time and time again. Culture isn’t about plucking all the good apples, that’s a fairy tale. It’s about creating a succinct vision that everyone wants to follow and as much as a head coach plays a huge role in that it starts higher.
Again, joke all you want but in my experience there isn’t a sign of a more pervasive culture problem than someone declaring themselves able to solve culture problems by getting out the ax.
That’s why Gettleman was passed over for the Giants the first time, that’s why he had a very short stint for a GM in Carolina and that’s why we are where we are now. DG and the broader Giants leadership have a problem of austerity and close mindedness.
The irony in this thread that all the jokesters don’t seem to grasp is that Buffalo has been one of the worst franchises of the last few decades. If the barometer for us is we make the same mistakes as them but have worse overall results, our expectations for appropriate measuring sticks have really plummeted.
The excuse making on this one is mind boggling.
I don’t “blindly” support Dave Gettelman. I happen to think he isn’t the end all be all for everything wrong with this organization. And seeing the Ed Oliver news is extremely unfortunate but an example of how the vetting process is imperfect. And it isn’t just bad franchises it’s good ones too. How’s that Earl Thomas fella? Sounds like a piece of shit to me. Plenty of successful franchises make mistakes on character - but they’ve got a system in place to make up for it.
How’s your faith in him looking?
3 arrests probably a few out there we don't knwo about =
3/2800 = .001 1//10th of 1 percent = regular crime wave
Last I read the crime rate in the NFL was 1 in 45, the highest of all sports. And that was calculated before quarantine.
would you calculate the number of murderers in the general population by counting the number of murders in a 3 day period?
The excuse making on this one is mind boggling.
You don’t think teams keep an eye on their players, especially the good ones? Players are investments for the owners. Smaller rosters mean it’s easier to protect the investments. Just because you don’t see as many news headlines about NBA players being in trouble doesn’t meant it isn’t happening. I know it’s a television show but guys like Ray Donovan exist in real life as well.
And I agree with another poster that pointed out the low rate of crime when you look at the whole league. The fact that you have three incidents in one weekend is more coincidence than anything in my opinion.
You're conflating cause and effect with 'excuse'. Like it or not a larger cross section of NFL players come from higher crime environments than the norm. I'm not justifying or rationalizing the behavior but that isn't needed to accept the phenomena is happening.
I just happen to think people doing a crappy job working on something I care about deserve to be called out and the problem needs to be rectified. This doesn’t happen by downplaying said problem.
I’ve been highlighting these problems for years and been extremely validated by what’s transpired. You on the other hand keep on acting like the people that are questioning things are overreacting even as someone like me and the concerns coming to life I actually prognosticated. Like in game technology relationships and the value of integrating advanced data like SportsVu for this and larger value models.
You can mode something like the psychology behind work ethic into traditional stats. The Pats have used methods like this under Ernie Adams for a long time.
Don’t conflate me being pissed off about this with anything else. My happy life affords me the energy to try to take on causes I care about. Like people like you giving the team too much slack actually propping up the legitimacy of a feckless regime.
I can spend time picking apart moves my teams make all day if I want. I choose not to because I don’t get anything out of it, just isn’t very fun. So chalk that up to whatever cute term you want to address people with who aren’t heavily criticizing every move (which is a shitty way to start a conversation I might add).
Don’t confuse the Giants making plenty of shitty moves that need to be criticized because of the bad management with being a negative person.
I’m very positive about the Yankees on this board and have been consistently for years.
You know why Gettleman was passed over? You know that he was even under consideration?
But furthermore, what did you mean by Gettleman had a very short stint for a GM in Carolina?
The Panthers have had 6 GM's in their history. Exactly one of them had longer stint than Gettleman! One. Marty Hurney.
The average tenure of a GM is 3 years. Granted, that includes a lot who flame out immediately, but even then - the terrible Gettleman beat that out.
For a guy who talks analytics, you are really, really shitty at comparative statistics.
Glad you could give definitive insight into his time in Carolina - a subject you continually swing and miss at.
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
I can spend time picking apart moves my teams make all day if I want. I choose not to because I don’t get anything out of it, just isn’t very fun. So chalk that up to whatever cute term you want to address people with who aren’t heavily criticizing every move (which is a shitty way to start a conversation I might add).
I can totally understand just going with the flow and hoping that every move works out, honestly I can.
If you have taken that path, what do you get out of arguing on the internet against people who are still thinking critically? Why bother? That just seems like misery with extra steps
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
What is it with supposed “analytics experts” on this site? Every single one of them are insufferable windbags. They all think they are the smartest guy in the room, constantly patting themselves on the back for what they perceive as them being “right” and have an arrogance that just makes you want to bitch slap the shit out of them. They aren’t half as smart as they think they are but they are so caught up in their own bloviiating that they have no idea how insufferable they are. NGD is one of the main culprits but he’s certainly not alone. Complete clowns
Quote:
keep lying then.
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
What is it with supposed “analytics experts” on this site? Every single one of them are insufferable windbags. They all think they are the smartest guy in the room, constantly patting themselves on the back for what they perceive as them being “right” and have an arrogance that just makes you want to bitch slap the shit out of them. They aren’t half as smart as they think they are but they are so caught up in their own bloviiating that they have no idea how insufferable they are. NGD is one of the main culprits but he’s certainly not alone. Complete clowns
BBS. I was talking to a few other BBI'ers and when the topic of analytics came up, two guys who are really knowledgeable about building sound data programs said the great irony of the analytics discussions here is that the loudest posters who claim to have analytic prowess continually show time and again that they have a terrible understanding of the subject
The only credit I give them is they sure are tenacious in sticking with the ignorance.
If I'm a guy who leans heavily on data-based arguments, I'd sure as hell get my facts straight about the role Gettleman played in Carolina and how he stacked up against his peers, but instead, I'll just get called a big old meany face!
Quote:
In comment 14905548 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
keep lying then.
Can't wait to hear the reasoning on how you were right about Gettleman having a short stint in Carolina.
Maybe tie it to critiquing the Giants technology department like you tried to on the Baker thread?
What is it with supposed “analytics experts” on this site? Every single one of them are insufferable windbags. They all think they are the smartest guy in the room, constantly patting themselves on the back for what they perceive as them being “right” and have an arrogance that just makes you want to bitch slap the shit out of them. They aren’t half as smart as they think they are but they are so caught up in their own bloviiating that they have no idea how insufferable they are. NGD is one of the main culprits but he’s certainly not alone. Complete clowns
BBS. I was talking to a few other BBI'ers and when the topic of analytics came up, two guys who are really knowledgeable about building sound data programs said the great irony of the analytics discussions here is that the loudest posters who claim to have analytic prowess continually show time and again that they have a terrible understanding of the subject
The only credit I give them is they sure are tenacious in sticking with the ignorance.
If I'm a guy who leans heavily on data-based arguments, I'd sure as hell get my facts straight about the role Gettleman played in Carolina and how he stacked up against his peers, but instead, I'll just get called a big old meany face!
To be fair, the BBI analytics gurus spend a great deal of time performing their expertise analyzing LinkedIn profiles. I mean, they can only go by the data LinkedIn provides in their earnest analysis of someone’s qualifications and history. Must be LinkedIn told them Gettleman was a failure in Carolina? I mean, all the data is there! He wasn’t there long so he’s a failure! Who needs detail and perspective? Numbers tell it all. These guys have spent their entire lives analyzing numbers. Don’t argue within. There’s no room for logic and reasoning around here.
The people I talked to with knowledge of the Giants thinking, those involved in it didn’t understand some very basic concepts in how to apply technology and the systems you’d need to apply that tech.
So am I surprised that a group of fans jerking each other off also don’t understand?
No I am not
There were some basic things about the team's structure you didn't even know when you started the crusade on analytics. Let me remind you that at one time, you stood by the belief that Carolina was doing nothing with analytics. You extended that belief to say the Giants weren't either.
So again - a guy who purports to make
data-based reasoning, doesn't even do basic research before spouting off.
Then the goalposts moved from the Giants not doing anything to them hiring a guy who had no credentials worthy of leading an analytic team, famously culled from LinkedIn. Meanwhile, while Siam's reputation was taking the brunt of your "research" you never even acknowledged that Jon Berger has been the team's Director of Football Information for 13 years
I've questioned you competence all along, now I guess we'll have to wonder who the fuck you've talked to "with knowledge of the Giants thinking".
Excuse me for a second - my bullshit monitor is going crazy!
1) If you go back and read the first thread we got into it on analytics here. What I was saying about Gettleman being the wrong guy to have the Giants modernize turned out to be 100% correct. Gettleman admitted that he needed to "learn from his mistakes" at the end of the season. Gettleman said himself what I was concerned about turned out to be accurate. Where do you come off acting like you are anything but wrong yourself for acting like we were on top of this?
2) You spent the whole thread I shared, questioning how I could possibly know if the Giants needed to do more on the analytics front, who I was to question the mighty Giants? Now you mock me for using LinkedIn, Github and talking about my background when that's all we have to go on, the performance on the field, their code base, my qualifications and the peoples qualifications of the team. It was only your demands for a never-ending pile of evidence to support my points that we went down that road and no other reason.
3) The asinine point has been tossed around way too much if the Giants did do analytics. And I have continually pointed out that a pivot table is technically analytics and the idea that an organization would not "do analytics" in that sense today is insane, no one would ever claim that. The more relevant point is quality. You continually point out that Gettleman set up and "did analytics" in Carolina but in making his second attempt to build out a good technology analysis pipeline with the Giants he bucked the math and said from the above article "Barkley is 'an outlier' who “transcended such analytics." He doesn’t even understand the terms he is using, an outlier is not something you can predict it is something you uncover after the fact. If you can draw clear or formulaic lines to something, which is absolutely how decisions should be made, it isn’t an outlier. He's saying he knows more than the math and his attempts to articulate his reasoning included phrases like “touched by the hand of god” and poking fun at the kinds of people helping other teams stack wins while we stack losses. Part of the math of why RBs are valued less is they have durability concerns and competition gets by allocating less resources to them. The average of the top 10 G cap hits in the NFL is 21% higher than RB AND we were paying our aging immobile QB tons of money to try to win at the end of his career, a quick lesson in computer modeling and asset allocation. Saquon is the 8th highest paid RB and Quinton Nelson is the 25th highest paid G. Salary arbitrage and team building wins games. Not who is touched by the hand of god and who isn’t. The more important point is not if Gettleman “did analytics” or not in Carolina it is why should his opinion on technology matter? Why should he be leading a team in an industry that increasingly is integrating advanced technology? He clearly doesn’t have enough respect for the field, even if he has been forced to give it more credence don’t you want people leading modernization efforts to want to pursue it more naturally not in front of an angry mob of people they’ve disappointed?
4) Here is a clear line between Deandre Baker and advanced analytics. Ernie Adams is. responsible for making the Patriots final draft value model according to his Wikipedia page. They took Aaron Hernandez in the 4th, they take chances on a lot of players with character risks. They clearly have a way of modeling this. Gettleman is on record rejecting value-based models on their face with Saquon. When you get into more advanced analytics, as I have mentioned in threads recently you can blend psychological factors with traditional statistics to project a player. That’s why it’s laughable when you compare Baker Mayfield to Deandre Baker, he had his own set of issues, but his effort was never in question. To act like the risk of Baker Mayfield and Deandre Baker is in the same category is woefully inadequate analysis in the fields of both psychology and data science. Yet you claim to have a knowledge of the field and speak out on it so often. There are plenty of professional sports organizations doing this down to eye movements and electrical signals in the brain in addition to written or conversation syntax. Are models still wrong sometimes? Of course. But when you trade up for a player, acting like you know something the league doesn’t know when other teams like the Pats clearly have purely mathematical sanity checks on things like this it means you better be right. Furthermore, instead of declaring yourself some grand arbiter of what good culture is (this coming from someone again who was fired for difficult relationships with players in the past) other teams are putting together models including psychological factors into who might be fits on their teams. We hear a lot about JJ matching players to scheme but you can even start earlier and match players to your other players. I know shocking right? Believe it or not the world is not filled with good apples or bad apples waiting for our glorious leader DG to weigh in on their apple quality. There is more nuance and it is much more about fitting personalities into the group you have and to the strengths of your coaches.
5) Maybe our last two coaches looking bad has just as much to do with the front office supporting them as it does with them being the stupid villains who also were the best men for the job a short while before that. The funny thing about all of this as you again act like I have something to prove when you have never offered up any context on why your opinions in the technology field matter at all. While you have been acting like my posts are useless drivel they have gotten me information on actually what is going on inside the walls of the building through contacts I have formed on this board. I don't mind making statements like that because they are the truth and if they weren't i'm sure you'd relish sniffing them out. But you'd rather pretend like you know more through bluster instead of making real points. That's your MO.
One more overarching point:
Our record with Ty Siam running our analytics – 29-51
Title: Football operations analyst
Prior experience:
2 years and 10 months as a consultant
Ernie Adams
Title: Director of Football Research
Prior experience:
Worked as a coach’s assistant for 6 years
Director of Pro Personnel for 3
5 years as a Wall St. Trader
4 years running his own investment firm
This illustrates a simple point, why do we continue to have no evidence of technological qualifications at the top of our organization when there was an admission that we should have addressed this more? I do not claim to be the end all be all on technology, I posted a whole system architecture verified by another expert McL. A poster that I know offline came on to validate my background and expertise in this field. You don’t have to be an expert to know our staffing qualifications and codebase are disappointing and pairing that with our on field performance there is no defense for, the team knows its indefensible which is why they addressed that this offseason specifically. One thing that I do know with 100% certainty is these processes are iterative but the more systems leaders have built the more shortcuts you know. The 5 broad areas of expertise needed to build a system that can offer value-based assessments and real time recommendations for games are advanced mathematics, computer vision, software development, systems architecture, and product design. Gettleman and Siam can lead an effort where we fumble around with tools in the dirt like apes and try to evolve or you can bring in people that can speed up the process significantly because they’ve led technology efforts. And again, I want to be clear we do not have anyone on our senior staff who have built out systems harnessing expertise in ANY of those categories. A strong CTO would have expertise across those functions, but the fact remains bringing in “computer guys” with some of those skills is VASTLY different than having a director of research leading those efforts. We are behind and what we think is a viable solution to catch up was to let the guys that led us into falling behind to lead this new effort to modernize? How flawed is that logic?
Anyone with insider knowledge has supported that the Giants are all but ready to make Kevin Abrams the GM. That is a fatally flawed decision-making process based on clearly the wrong things. It would be one thing if we storm back into the playoffs this year and then we heard those whispers. But the fact that there is so much smoke there, after this terrible period in our history shows the Giants care more about loyalty and comfort than finding the best people in their front office. That has been demonstrated and that is what some people do not seem to care about and until more people do we might just stay in the cellar. The Baker situation is frustrating because we continue to throw up our hands and act like these are all honest mistakes but the "honest mistakes" keep stacking and downplaying them especially in conjunction is irresponsible. And that has nothing to do if Baker goes to jail or not and everything to do with why it is that a team with so many holes wanted this guy so much more than the rest of the NFL that we spent 3 picks on him?
That thread was prior to Tepper doing anything in Carolina. In the linked thread, Tepper has been there
But nevertheless, you asked about it again on the thread linked:
People see through the charade
Just look at two posts by EA:
How far do you want to take it though? Clearly you're super committed to it as it's your profession and great for you but for me I think it is just a data point and it will always struggle to be as effective in football as in baseball for what I'm sure are very obvious reasons to you.
Still, you remain convinced the Giants refuse to modernise and the Jags, Eagles and others are mentioned. Do you think Coughlin suddenly became a numbers guy? No... he was for years at the giants. The Eagles are a smart org you say and the numbers told them... to hire Ben McAdoo. I note today Eli is top 4 in passes completed above expectation for example. To steal from the sage Bill2 you can torture the data into confessing any number of ways.
Ultimately numbers rarely tell you who is going to break out, who brings others together in a locker room and who brings something even greater than wins to a community. Football isn't wall street. It's a hugely complex interdependent operation more akin to predicting the weather than analysing trading patterns.
I think this roster is ill equipped for today's NFL. The organisation is not. Trust DG. He won't let you down and certainly not in the manner you suggest.
English Alaister : 10/1/2018 3:30 pm : link
You bunch of dicks don't even have the first idea what loyalty entails. Instead we get threads like 'Do Gettleman and Schumer (presumably not Amy) deserve to be publicly lashed?' 'Is Vernon tougher than a 6 year old girl?' or this peach. It is no wonder posters like Fatman or B in ALB who has an idea what a pro locker room look like can't take any more of this nonsense. Don't even start me on bw and his jints central act which has routinely been a guide to a team about to go to a superbowl but is now scaling new levels of conjecture and hyperbole.
The reality is this. You cannot realistically expect to judge the owners over a 3 or 4 year period. Mistakes have been made and this is an unforgiving league intolerant of mistakes. I don't think anyone can refute that but the last 32 years have yielded 4 superbowls (and a fifth appearance) whereby statistically they should have yielded approximately one.
That is because the Giants way works. We are a good football organisation that routinely makes solid football decisions and allows people to succeed or fail with class. Meanwhile the same horrific posters who wanted to get rid of Coughlin for McAdoo but now fete him at Jacksonville ponder should they allow their "loyalty" to continue for a 5th week of a new regime. These people would have traded Eli for Fitzpatrick three times by now and wonder why they're still trophyless.
It's just embarrassing to be a part of this fanbase at times.
EA has extensive knowledge about analytics. He also knows some of my expertise, which I do not disclose, especially to asswipes like yourself. Meanwhile, you find ways to often work in your qualifications. Nuggets like this:
You need to keep telling people your qualifications because a lot of people knowledgeable about analytics think you are full of shit and for some reason, you need to throw fake resumes around to appear to be an expert. I came to that conclusion early on in our interactions, yet you keep going like the Energizer Bunny.
You are the American Idol contestant who tells the judges how great they are before sounding like a dying coyote.
There has to be some flaw in the system. You are glossing over the fact that I said they didn't have the right people to modernize they admitted this past off-season they did a bad job of modernizing and now you think the point is relevant to highlight again that they have the right people in place? Based on what?