Now that the draft dust has settled, I wanted to see who you guys think has the best chance to be the “diamond in the rough” type player from the late rounds(Post 5th round)/UDFAs. I’m sure this has been talked about a bit, but with all the Baker hoopla, figured it’d be nice to try to focus on some positives.
So, who do you think has the highest (semi) realistic upside? I’ll say it now, I don’t have a coaching or scouting background, just a fan, so I’m fine with being wrong. Basically I’m just unemployed, bored, going stir crazy, and wanna talk football. Here’s my list:
Cam Brown, LB - I always like guys who like to hit guys, and boy does this kid hit. Out of the players I’ll list, he’s probably the least instinctual player, at least in coverage, so the key with him is, can he be coached up? That being said, he’s a real downhill, guided missile type. Really stout against the run, and our big DT’s eating up blockers could offset one of his biggest weaknesses, lack of strength/size to shed bigger blockers. He’s someone who can certainly make the team via special teams, but I think if we intend to rely on blitzing for pressure, that’s an area where he could shine early. His upside could be huge if he responds to coaching. In a few years, I could see his ceiling as 3 true down LBer. He’s got the speed (ran a 4.7, but when he’s not caught flat footed, he plays much faster) and length to play sideline to sideline, and cover TEs and RBs. It’s just a matter of if he can be taught to use those skills. Plus he had a tweet where he said “the Cowboys will be forever ass” or something like that, so that’s a guy you can root for.
Carter Coughlin, Edge/LB - Probably the most interesting prospect of this type for me. We may have found our new “High Motor White Guy,” with this kid, haha. Doesn’t give up on plays, high football IQ, excellent straight line speed (4.57 40), great production, nose for the ball, and helluva strip-sack move. This is the exact type of player that I imagined when I heard Joe Judge’s first couple pressers. “Tell me what he can do, not what he can’t.” He’s a tweener college edge rusher, often playing with his hand in the ground, but he’s 6’3” 236lbs. In the NFL, he doesn’t have the strength or length (in the 19th percentile for arm length at his position) to NOT get swallowed up if he’s battling with OL every play. If they figure out a scheme to properly highlight his skillset, I really think he can end up a Swiss Army knife, hybrid type defensive player. He’s got the tools and intangibles to be, more than even just a plus starter, but a key piece to our defense down the road. I think that’s his ceiling, IF utilized properly. In the immediate future, obviously special teams, but he’s another one who can be a situational pass rush weapon blitzing on 3rd down packages.
Binjimen Victor, WR - Of all the UDFA WR pick ups, he’s the guy that jumps out to me. Mack seems to make tough catches, but really lacks run after catch ability. At least anything of his that I’ve seen, the catch is made, and he’s not gaining anything after. Dillon may be the guy to make the roster due to his special teams ability, but I think the Giants already have a better version of him on the roster in Coleman. Victor, to me, has the most upside. 6’4”, deceptive speed/shiftiness, incredible catch radius (his wingspan is huge, even for 6’4”), able to pluck the ball out of the air, and seems to have superior body control. I have to temper my excitement and not call him “the next coming of Plax.” I did that with Ramses Barden, and well, we know how that turned out. But it’s that time of year, for hyperbole and over exaggerating, right?! There is a stark difference, in that Victor is alarmingly slight. He’s 6’4” and not quite 200lbs. Definitely needs to add some lower body weight, and I don’t know if that’s going to ruin the speed that he does have (he runs a 4.6 as is). Also, like a lot of tall guys, he has trouble getting a good first step off the line or out of breaks. All that being said, if he can add weight without it being a detriment to his athleticism, the sky is the limit for this kid.
Last, but not least...
Kyle Murphy, OL - I’ll be honest, I’ve only seen one highlight reel of the kid, haven’t really bothered to read up much on him so I don’t know a ton about him. Also, I know he’s coming from a small school, but holy shit. His highlight reel is inches away from being “Exhibit A” in an assault case. He just rag dolls, EVERYONE. Like I said, I’m just a fan, and in Murphy’s case more than any of the others, I don’t know whether or not his skill can translate, but my god, he just decimates people. I don’t know if you guys have ever seen that 30 For 30 about Marcus Dupree, but they show highlights of him in high school, when he was basically the size of an NFL athlete already, just disrespecting children, running them over, and ruining their homecoming weekends. That’s what Murphy’s college tape looks like.
Honorable mention: RB Javon Leake looks like he’s got some skill, and I’m hopeful we may have found our KR/PR for the future.
So, sound off! Tell me who you like, who you hate, what you disagree with, that I’m a moron and struggle with sentence structure, spelling, grammar, and even the faintest understanding of what it means to evaluate a player, whatever. Looking forward to reading your responses.
Then the kid who stands out the most to me on offense is TE Rysen John. From Eric's Scouting Report:
On defense it's DE Niko Lalos.
"The Giants see me outside on the edge,” Lalos said. “I talked to the defensive line coach [Sean Spencer], the outside linebacker coach [Bret Bielema] and the defensive coordinator [Patrick Graham] for the Giants, and they really liked my versatility.”
Link - ( New Window )
Haven’t really looked into Lalos at all, I’ll check him out next.
I actually read this story recently, but outside of that I don’t know anything about Angulo, even less about Bachman. They got chops?
Haven’t really looked into Lalos at all, I’ll check him out next.
I couldn't find it (but admittedly didn't look very long), but I believe I read somewhere that Lalos can long-snap. If that's true, and he makes the team, it would continue our tradition of Ivy League long-snappers.
Also, Binjimen Victor reminds me of Plaxico....so who would not want that?
Chris Williamson can be our 4th safety and nickle backer.
I love Cam Brown....he was all over the field at Penn St.....
If the offensive line uses zone, he can be used much like Zack Martin. Only reason he wasn't drafted was he played RT his whole career at Louisville and teams saw him as a too small tackle. But he's going to be moved inside and should excel, especially in zone schemes. Don't sleep on him!
I think both Niko Lalos and Kyle Markway have a bright future. Both need NFL seasoning. Lalos could develop into a good edge rusher as he has the size, speed, strength to excel at it and is cerebral in the football sense. Markway was supposedly the best pure blocking TE in the draft and can be used like a 6th offensive lineman.
He can be a Redzone threat and if he acctually shows some speed maybe more. Need to find a spot for him cant see him gaining the strength for inline blocking but H back syle could work.
However, I think Matt Peart is the most intriguing because he has the frame and athleticism to be a VG tackle. Doesn't look like there is much "bulk" on that frame and he looks like good coaching will clean up his technique.
However, I think Matt Peart is the most intriguing because he has the frame and athleticism to be a VG tackle. Doesn't look like there is much "bulk" on that frame and he looks like good coaching will clean up his technique.
Haha, didn’t mean to try to stifle anyone. Honestly it’s more selfish than anything. As far as Peart, or Lemieux go, for example, I’ve already done deep dives on them. I wanted to see who people thought could be the next Seubert/Bradshaw/Cruz type might be, and see who I should try to get familiarized with that I hadn’t put effort into learning about.
That being said, I’m very excited about Peart. The idea that we may be a year away from having bookend OT’s, our LG, and C (or RG if Lemieux doesn’t work at C but can supplant Zeitler in the near future) all on rookie contracts, is probably the biggest glimmer of hope I’ve had for this team in a while.
And before anyone chimes in with he's not a project he definitely is. Small school guy with many facets of his game that need improvement. Look up the word raw and you'll find his big grin looking back at you.
Second is Carter Coughlin. He's a sleeper edge rusher with a lot of physical tools and he's just a football player. One of those guys that's immersed himself in the game. Of all the day 3 guys we took I think he's the one to watch. Ohio State came hard and heavy after him in recruiting and frankly if he'd played there with his numbers he'd probably have been drafted earlier.
And before anyone chimes in with he's not a project he definitely is. Small school guy with many facets of his game that need improvement. Look up the word raw and you'll find his big grin looking back at you.
Second is Carter Coughlin. He's a sleeper edge rusher with a lot of physical tools and he's just a football player. One of those guys that's immersed himself in the game. Of all the day 3 guys we took I think he's the one to watch. Ohio State came hard and heavy after him in recruiting and frankly if he'd played there with his numbers he'd probably have been drafted earlier.
Peart was exactly who I was thinking that fit this criteria. If we are talking about projects with upside he has to head the list. If it is late round or UDFA players who are sleepers that is different but Peart is the definition of a project.
My oh my it would really be something if the Giants' drafted bookend OTs for the next decade this year.
If one really cares to fantasize about a cosmic shift level reorganization of the Giants' OL fate from the last decade, then imagine 5th rounder Lemeaux and UDFA Murphy also develop into viable starters by 2022. Those 4 plus Hernandez making up a quality OL would be Karmic level return, for what Eli endured from 2010 until 2019.
If he has the mental capability I can see him lining up as a safety, corner or lb depending on the D being run.
Under the radar kind of guy but I can see him eking out a roster spot
Peart may be an obvious choice, but I expect him to struggle a lot year 1. I hope Giant fans are patient enough to realize he'll be far from a finished product after his first year.
And before anyone chimes in with he's not a project he definitely is. Small school guy with many facets of his game that need improvement. Look up the word raw and you'll find his big grin looking back at you.
This. Peart is a project and he was taken on Day 2. I think that makes him pretty damn intriguing.
And before anyone chimes in with he's not a project he definitely is. Small school guy with many facets of his game that need improvement. Look up the word raw and you'll find his big grin looking back at you.
Second is Carter Coughlin. He's a sleeper edge rusher with a lot of physical tools and he's just a football player. One of those guys that's immersed himself in the game. Of all the day 3 guys we took I think he's the one to watch. Ohio State came hard and heavy after him in recruiting and frankly if he'd played there with his numbers he'd probably have been drafted earlier.
I don't like the word "project" to describe a player like Peart because it's too often used as a pejorative. I prefer "developmental prospect."
Semantics? Po-tay-to, po-tah-to?
Maybe, but that's how I roll.
And before anyone chimes in with he's not a project he definitely is. Small school guy with many facets of his game that need improvement. Look up the word raw and you'll find his big grin looking back at you.
+1 on Peart.
Second is Carter Coughlin. He's a sleeper edge rusher with a lot of physical tools and he's just a football player. One of those guys that's immersed himself in the game. Of all the day 3 guys we took I think he's the one to watch. Ohio State came hard and heavy after him in recruiting and frankly if he'd played there with his numbers he'd probably have been drafted earlier.
I also have high hopes for Haycraft and Lemieux.
Thomas, Hernandez, Lemieux, Zeitler, Peart.
Peart is a 3rd rounder, we should expect to see a lot of PT this year and be a starter next for sure.
As a Clemson fan it was easy to root for Adam Humphries and Hunter Renfro, neither in the class of Sammy Watkins, Mike Williams or Tee Higgins but both did make it to the pros.
Quote:
If we can develop this kid it could be a game changer for our O-line in terms of accelerating the improvement of the level of play for the unit quickly.
And before anyone chimes in with he's not a project he definitely is. Small school guy with many facets of his game that need improvement. Look up the word raw and you'll find his big grin looking back at you.
Second is Carter Coughlin. He's a sleeper edge rusher with a lot of physical tools and he's just a football player. One of those guys that's immersed himself in the game. Of all the day 3 guys we took I think he's the one to watch. Ohio State came hard and heavy after him in recruiting and frankly if he'd played there with his numbers he'd probably have been drafted earlier.
I don't like the word "project" to describe a player like Peart because it's too often used as a pejorative. I prefer "developmental prospect."
Semantics? Po-tay-to, po-tah-to?
Maybe, but that's how I roll.
Good point. I have the same reaction to "project."
Shane Lemieux has the strength, experience, and nasty streak that the Giants line could surely use. I am hoping that either Lemieux or Gates win the center job allowing the Giants to release Spencer Pulley. I think that Lemieux will be starter for the Giants at either guard or center. The Giants might have found their next Rich Seubert.
While I think Kyle Murphy has more upside I think that Tyler Haycraft might be the dark horse winner of a roster spot. He just sounds like a Joe Judge type of player.
Haycraft walked on at Louisville and through hard work he eventually won a starting role at RT.
Haycraft’s OC at Louisville Dwayne Ledford thinks that Haycraft has what it takes to be a “very, very good” center in the NFL.
I think it’s a safe bet that Haycraft will land a spot on the practice squad but if Pulley loses the starting center competition I could see the Giants moving on from him to save over two million in cap room. If that were to happen and Haycraft impresses enough in camp and the preseason then he could win the final backup OL spot but I think the practice squad is far more likely.
As for LeMieux, he is mainly a project because of the position switch to OC. I think that's the kind of thing where he will either take to it or he will not and the coaches will know by the end of camp whether he has a future there or not. I'm not saying that means he will be ready by September to be a starter, but they will know if he has the instincts for the position. Or whether they should just keep him at guard. But this is a guy who was born to play football and he will find a home somewhere on the OL eventually.
Of the undrafted, the one who intrigues me the most is Javon Leake. I was of the opinion on draft day that finding a backup RB for Barkley was a greater priority than people thought. If we're gonna be designing an offensive system and game plans to take advantage of Barkley's talent, having someone who could step in if/when he is hurt is pretty damn important. Gallman showed last year that he simply wasn't that guy. Maybe Leake can be.
Okay, Milton, so the kid who grew up rooting for the Giants gets drafted by the Giants and says this:
You describe as immature and unprepared in an interview he gave just after he was drafted, when he was clearly deliriously happy, and Papa, Diehl, and O'Hara were having fun with him. You must have missed the part where he said that he's already been in touch with the Giants' strength coach, who gave him some workouts via an App, and that he's already begun to "get after it" as his brother helped him build a gym in his basement (including a squat rack). Frankly, I don't think your "analysis" could have been any more petty and shallow.
About Peart, whom you said "needs to learn how to be a professional," Dave Gettleman said this:
Joe Judge echoed that sentiment:
But, yeah...I'm sure you must have interviewed Peart at length to conclude that, "He's still a basketball player at heart, they need to change that and it takes time." Perhaps you could recommend a behavior-modification program for Peart, to purge all of those basketball-player traits from his heart.
As for where he was drafted and what the draftniks thought about him, I'm surprised you were able to reach any conclusion about that, since Drew Boylhart didn't bother to do a write-up on him. However, looking at where he was drafted in relation to the OT's that went before and after him, I'd say he got picked right around where he should have been.
Finally, my point about the word "project" was that it's very often used as a pejorative, as a term to denigrate a developmental prospect.
Thanks for proving it.
p.s.--I'm hopeful when it comes to Peart, which is why he tops my list of "most intriguing prospect." His upside is quite high, but he's got a long way to go on several fronts.
OK so I got after the OL and bypassed Colin's request (to some extent) re the "late round" guys.
Colin, as I continue to read up and listen to interviews with these players, I find myself more intrigued by Carter Coughlin.
Why? In a nutshell, because I'm guessing he's another ILB like Ryan Connelly in the making. I don't think he was graded or evaluated properly by the draft pundits (Lance Zierlein gave him a 5.59 rating: "chance to be a bottom of the roster guy") because he was evaluated as an extremely undersized EDGE player. But I doubt that's his position in the pros!
Listen to his post draft interviews; he was an off ball LB (ILB in Graham's base D) who moved to the edge position for the benefit of his team and actually performed pretty well there at edge, despite it being quite out of position for him ideally due to his body type and previous experience!
This kid has everything in speed and quickness that Martinez lacks, and he's a childhood pal of Connelly's, who grew up a few houses down the road from him.
His arms are "too short" for an EDGE, but two inches longer then Connelly's. He's lighter in the pants than Connelly but even faster (40) and quicker (10 yard split) and more explosive (36" VJ.).
We saw Connelly show plenty of potential last year at ILB; this kid might be even better and is even more the new prototype ILB who can run and cover and rush the passer on occasion, if somewhat light in the pants and ill suited to take on OL head on, stack and shed. But he appears to be exactly the type of quick, fast, and instinctive ILB who can thrive behind a host of hog Molly DL like Tomlinson, Lawrence, Williams, Hill, Johnson and co.
I'm looking forward to see where he is aligned to play, and would bet this kid makes the active roster early in his career as a Giant, if only for STs coverage teams.
NFL combine write up as EDGE Prospect - ( New Window )
If you want to say Peart isn't ready for prime-time, yet, I'll agree. But the rest of your assessment is pure, unadulterated bullshit.
OK so I got after the OL and bypassed Colin's request (to some extent) re the "late round" guys.
Colin, as I continue to read up and listen to interviews with these players, I find myself more intrigued by Carter Coughlin.
Why? In a nutshell, because I'm guessing he's another ILB like Ryan Connelly in the making. I don't think he was graded or evaluated properly by the draft pundits (Lance Zierlein gave him a 5.59 rating: "chance to be a bottom of the roster guy") because he was evaluated as an extremely undersized EDGE player. But I doubt that's his position in the pros!
Listen to his post draft interviews; he was an off ball LB (ILB in Graham's base D) who moved to the edge position for the benefit of his team and actually performed pretty well there at edge, despite it being quite out of position for him ideally due to his body type and previous experience!
This kid has everything in speed and quickness that Martinez lacks, and he's a childhood pal of Connelly's, who grew up a few houses down the road from him.
His arms are "too short" for an EDGE, but two inches longer then Connelly's. He's lighter in the pants than Connelly but even faster (40) and quicker (10 yard split) and more explosive (36" VJ.).
We saw Connelly show plenty of potential last year at ILB; this kid might be even better and is even more the new prototype ILB who can run and cover and rush the passer on occasion, if somewhat light in the pants and ill suited to take on OL head on, stack and shed. But he appears to be exactly the type of quick, fast, and instinctive ILB who can thrive behind a host of hog Molly DL like Tomlinson, Lawrence, Williams, Hill, Johnson and co.
I'm looking forward to see where he is aligned to play, and would bet this kid makes the active roster early in his career as a Giant, if only for STs coverage teams. NFL combine write up as EDGE Prospect - ( New Window )
Great post, exactly what I’ve been thinking.
If anyone has more info on Betiku, Lalos, Haycraft, Markway, or Williamson, those are the names that have popped up that I probably know the least about.
Peart is a 3rd round pick. He better not be a project!
Incidentally, I'm redoing the interior of my 1967 C10. So, clearly Lemieux is my 2nd most intriguing project.
Thats why they're called instincts lol.
Guys like this don't ever seem to pan out. He sounds a lot like a *poorer* mans version of the Lions Jarrad Davis.