The jumping around with timelines was annoying, but not the end of the world.
I also had no idea about the "Flu Game" really being food poisoning. They seemed to infer that the food poisoning was done on purpose, at least that's how I took it. Not sure if anyone else feels that way.
RE: I really enjoyed it but...damn...what a puff piece for MJ
I agree, the way his trainer Tony went over they story, he absolutely insinuated that the 5 pizza delivery guys who showed up did in fact put something in there. Jordan even made a point to say he was the only one who ate it.
regarding it being intentional, there have been conspiracy theories involving that for years. Utah fans were pretty rough (you saw MJ’s children talking about how their mother wouldn’t even let them go to Utah home games), so I think that fed into the conspiracies
I don’t buy it. If you are trying to poison him, you don’t have 5 people showing up. My guess is they all showed up just to see MJ. It was a late night (10:30 order), and Utah doesn’t have much of a night life. My guess is something was left out too long. Especially after seeing the documentary (didn’t realize MJ ate the whole pizza), the intentional food poisoning theory seems less plausible
The touched on all the relevant subject, they interviewed everyone that was relevant, and the soundtrack was absolutely amazing. I know there’s a ton of Knicks fans here that don’t like Jordan, but you have to respect the work he put in.
The last dance meant the 98 season. They kept jumping from that for the various stories, while moving to the present.
I’m not sure what more the documentary could’ve been besides people wanting it to make MJ look bad. On the court that’s impossible. Off the court, maybe but that wouldn’t change what he and that team did in the 90s.
regarding it being intentional, there have been conspiracy theories involving that for years. Utah fans were pretty rough (you saw MJ’s children talking about how their mother wouldn’t even let them go to Utah home games), so I think that fed into the conspiracies
Utah is notorious for being a pain in the butt to play at for opposing fans. Some players have come out and spoken about certain comments the fans have made. Didn't Westbrook and a fan get into it recently?
regarding it being intentional, there have been conspiracy theories involving that for years. Utah fans were pretty rough (you saw MJ’s children talking about how their mother wouldn’t even let them go to Utah home games), so I think that fed into the conspiracies
Utah is notorious for being a pain in the butt to play at for opposing fans. Some players have come out and spoken about certain comments the fans have made. Didn't Westbrook and a fan get into it recently?
During the finals. I guess they were like screw it this it it anyway so let him play.
That’s how they handled Rodman. Phil Jackson really handled it properly. If you have a young team, and a young player does that, you are handling that differently. Bulls had a veteran team, and Rodman was one of a kind. He showed up in the games when they needed it most. As Jackson alluded to, you weren’t going to start Dickie Simpson’s against Malone
Yeah, Jordan talked about his return to practice and Phil was making them run and Jordan told the team to take it slow so Rodman could ease back in. But Rodman picked up right where he left off and was leading the pack. Rodman's back story is really something. He hit a growth spurt after graduating HS and then average something like 22/12 in college. I also loved hearing him talk about his film study of shooters and the spin of the ball and getting into the right position to get the rebound. My AAU coach always talked about that.
to return. It still makes no sense why Krause wanted to break that dynasty up.
Yeah, the fact Krause announced before the season that it would be Phil's last is odd. But I also think it was ego driven and Krause wanted to prove he played more of a roll in the success than he was given.
Was texting with friends about this last night. If they stayed together, they probably win in '99 due to the shortened season and the rest it would have given them. Which makes me wonder what the domino effect would have been around the league. Specifically the Lakers
Didn't MJ suffer a pretty nasty finger injury with a cigar cutter? I believe that happened after the '98 Finals & might not have been 100% come post lockout. Also, that lockout season was FUBAR...4 games in 5 nights type of stuff. That was an old, old team. It would have been interesting though.
Yeah, Jordan talked about his return to practice and Phil was making them run and Jordan told the team to take it slow so Rodman could ease back in. But Rodman picked up right where he left off and was leading the pack. Rodman's back story is really something. He hit a growth spurt after graduating HS and then average something like 22/12 in college. I also loved hearing him talk about his film study of shooters and the spin of the ball and getting into the right position to get the rebound. My AAU coach always talked about that.
That was the trip to Vegas, not the skipping out to go to WWE during the Finals. Rodman has a 30/30. I need to watch that.
Even though I knew about his old man. I believe ASU students chanted 'PLO!' at Kerr when he was at the FT post his father's death. Talk about low class, my God.
to return. It still makes no sense why Krause wanted to break that dynasty up.
That was the biggest thing I learned too. I had read that Jordan wanted to come back, but I didn’t realize how adamant he was about it. I really wish there was more about that. I could go for a part 11 on that one.
If you recall Reinsdorf being interviewed at the end, he was really adamant about not wanting to pay all these big salaries for players that were role players on a championship team. If I recall from 20 years ago, it was a luxury tax thing.
So Reinsdorf was really fine with it.
Krause has a scout’s background. I think he preferred team building rather than team maintaining, and his ego did get in the way.
I don’t know how I feel about it to this day. On the one hand, it would have been nice to go after another championship. But on the other hand, it was nice to go out on top.
It’s kind of hard to tell what would have happened the next year, as you get into a butterfly effect game. The Knicks were tough, the Pacers were tough. Who knows
Even though I knew about his old man. I believe ASU students chanted 'PLO!' at Kerr when he was at the FT post his father's death. Talk about low class, my God.
Jesus! I had never heard that. Sounds like Duke fans
Even though I knew about his old man. I believe ASU students chanted 'PLO!' at Kerr when he was at the FT post his father's death. Talk about low class, my God.
eh, it seemed like the Kerr story (which was already widely known) was shoehorned in to fill time. It was as if the director just said "hey, this is interesting, let's just add it".
Forgot about that one. Looking it up, Jordan in interviews said that it hampered his ability to Palm the basketball and bothered him a year later. Doubt Bulls would have won it all
to return. It still makes no sense why Krause wanted to break that dynasty up.
the owner was cheap. Probably not any more complicated than that. Jordan was paid $33 million in his last year and the rest of the team was due to get paid, including Pippen who got a huge deal from Houston.
Even though I knew about his old man. I believe ASU students chanted 'PLO!' at Kerr when he was at the FT post his father's death. Talk about low class, my God.
eh, it seemed like the Kerr story (which was already widely known) was shoehorned in to fill time. It was as if the director just said "hey, this is interesting, let's just add it".
I dont know, they were setting up the storyline for Kerr's '97 title clinching shot... plus you had access to the current Warriors HC who is popular these days too so i didnt have a problem with it.
I thought it was well done... yeah obviously a little too much from Jordan's perspective and not always reality - thought some of the putdowns of Clyde Drexler, the Knicks teams, the poor rookie on the Jazz who may have said something to Jordan about his retirement (but we know Jordan lied and made up stories at times to generate inner bulletin board material) -- making it sound like George Karl didnt say hi to him at a dinner one night and thats why Jordan played well against the Sonics (...ok...)... or inferring that Gary Payton didnt actually play well against him in games 4-5, insinuating that Jordan just wanted to purposely lose so he could win the title on Fathers Day on the home court ... all seemed like a stretch.
But incredibly entertaining series, I had no issues with the jumping around between years and detailing all of their title runs. And just too bad its over now. Not sure what ESPN was trying to say midway through about detailing Jackson's 5 Lakers titles in a future documentary (i think it was a joke?) - not sure how you do that without Kobe unfortunately.
A shamless, puff piece via ESPN/Nike to prop up MJ
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
Genius right here. Michael Jordan is terrible because he didn’t win championships at the age of 38 and 39 with the Wizards, after a three year retirement.
As for not winning his first few years in the league, his 3rd year, the most notable players on the team were what? Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, and Charles Oakley?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq? How many championships did Lebron win before teaming up with another HOFer, and an All-Star?
RE: RE: A shamless, puff piece via ESPN/Nike to prop up MJ
I didn’t get to see any of it and would like to now starting from the beginning. I looked online for the schedule but can only find the censored version in the ESPN app. I’m think I’m old enough to hear the bad words. Does anybody know if there are plans for the uncensored version and where I can see it?
RE: RE: A shamless, puff piece via ESPN/Nike to prop up MJ
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
Genius right here. Michael Jordan is terrible because he didn’t win championships at the age of 38 and 39 with the Wizards, after a three year retirement.
As for not winning his first few years in the league, his 3rd year, the most notable players on the team were what? Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, and Charles Oakley?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq? How many championships did Lebron win before teaming up with another HOFer, and an All-Star?
Yes, I realize he won titles without Shaq. He won none before teaming up with Shaq, and won 3 of 5 with Shaq. Kobe also didn’t win the last 3 or 4 years of his career.
My overall point is that Stan is apparently calling Jordan a failure for not doing what any NBA player in history has been expected to do, and none has. Really, we expect a young Jordan to beat the loaded Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics with no one around him?
being a sports fan, and watching the Last Dance in lockdown, and not enjoying it. really have to be in a dark/hater mindset
there is no such thing as a puff piece on a guy that won 3 straight twice and won every other accolade you can in sports--- has his own brand, and is the basis for what sports marketing is today.
to return. It still makes no sense why Krause wanted to break that dynasty up.
The team wasn’t sustainable. It was an old team and a lot of them started declining fast. Rodman played less than 40 games total after that season. Pippin, Longley, Harper all declined rapidly afterward. Jordan was showing early signs of decline.
to return. It still makes no sense why Krause wanted to break that dynasty up.
The team wasn’t sustainable. It was an old team and a lot of them started declining fast. Rodman played less than 40 games total after that season. Pippin, Longley, Harper all declined rapidly afterward. Jordan was showing early signs of decline.
There's a good article today on ESPN.com about that - Reinsdorf is interviewed for it. Bottom line, Pippen wasnt coming back - he got $67 million from the Rockets that offseason. Plus apparently Jordan cut himself pretty badly with a cigar cutter that offseason too. follow up article on why Bulls werent coming back - ( New Window )
Pippen would have taken a one-year-deal to try and win #7 was total nonsense. Pippen was going to take the biggest contract. If the Bulls would have matched what Houston gave him, maybe he stays but I think it's clear Reinsdorf was not going to pay up to keep the band together. Jordan and Pippen alone would have exceeded the cap. His luxury tax bill was going to be insane.
RE: RE: RE: A shamless, puff piece via ESPN/Nike to prop up MJ
In comment 14906068 KDavies said:
[quote] In comment 14906050 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14906021 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Like they've been doing for the last 30 years.
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
Genius right here. Michael Jordan is terrible because he didn’t win championships at the age of 38 and 39 with the Wizards, after a three year retirement.
As for not winning his first few years in the league, his 3rd year, the most notable players on the team were what? Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, and Charles Oakley?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq? How many championships did Lebron win before teaming up with another HOFer, and an All-Star?
Yes, I realize he won titles without Shaq. He won none before teaming up with Shaq, and won 3 of 5 with Shaq. Kobe also didn’t win the last 3 or 4 years of his career.
My overall point is that Stan is apparently calling Jordan a failure for not doing what any NBA player in history has been expected to do, and none has. Really, we expect a young Jordan to beat the loaded Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics with no one around him?
I agree with your premise, but your memory if failing you. There was no "before Shaq", Kobe was drafted in '96. The same year Shaq joned the Lakers.
It was interesting to see how low the scores were.
and how much defense was valued by the coaches.
I remember back in the 60's it was not uncommon for scores to be in the 130's. No telling what Jordan could average in todays game.
For me, it was interesting to get a glimpse as to what went on in the locker rooms.
being a sports fan, and watching the Last Dance in lockdown, and not enjoying it. really have to be in a dark/hater mindset
there is no such thing as a puff piece on a guy that won 3 straight twice and won every other accolade you can in sports--- has his own brand, and is the basis for what sports marketing is today.
100% this! I hated that man and team and still can't die a happy man because the Knicks haven't won a title in my lifetime. However, I can appreciate the greatness I witnessed now that sports isn't my entire life like it was when I was growing up in the 90's
Name 1 player who has won a title without a superstar teammate? In my 40 years of living, I can't come up with 1 NBA champion that didn't have multiple all stars on their roster
Pippen would have taken a one-year-deal to try and win #7 was total nonsense. Pippen was going to take the biggest contract. If the Bulls would have matched what Houston gave him, maybe he stays but I think it's clear Reinsdorf was not going to pay up to keep the band together. Jordan and Pippen alone would have exceeded the cap. His luxury tax bill was going to be insane.
Forget Jordan and Pippin. Jordan alone exceeded the salary cap.
There was no luxury tax back then, so that wasn’t an issue. But being capped out would have prevented them from signing any free agents to replace aging players. Even if you accept the dubious assumption that Jordan and Pippin could have maintained their play going forward, how do you put other talent around them?
played less than 40 games after the last title. Longley has ankle issues. Harper was old. Krause gets the blame from it, but it was an organizational decision.
The summer before the last championship, Reinsdorf and Krause met with others in the organization, including the trainers. It was pretty much decided that it was the last hurrah at that time.
Krause gets ripped for his treatment of Pippen, but Pippen never averaged more than 15 points after he left the Bulls. He was at getting towards the end of his productive days as well.
Pippen would have taken a one-year-deal to try and win #7 was total nonsense. Pippen was going to take the biggest contract. If the Bulls would have matched what Houston gave him, maybe he stays but I think it's clear Reinsdorf was not going to pay up to keep the band together. Jordan and Pippen alone would have exceeded the cap. His luxury tax bill was going to be insane.
Forget Jordan and Pippin. Jordan alone exceeded the salary cap.
There was no luxury tax back then, so that wasn’t an issue. But being capped out would have prevented them from signing any free agents to replace aging players. Even if you accept the dubious assumption that Jordan and Pippin could have maintained their play going forward, how do you put other talent around them?
luxury tax was implemented as part of new CBA after 98/99 lockout. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume Reinsdorf had a hunch it was coming.
Regardless, if Krause was half the GM he thought he was, surrounding MJ/Pippen with passable role players and ring chasing vets may have been difficult but not impossible.
Traded for Pippen, drafted Grant, drafted Armstrong, traded Oakley for Cartwright, replaced Collins with Phil Jackson, traded for Rodman, drafted Kukoc, signed Ron Harper, etc.
Traded for Pippen, drafted Grant, drafted Armstrong, traded Oakley for Cartwright, replaced Collins with Phil Jackson, traded for Rodman, drafted Kukoc, signed Ron Harper, etc.
Traded for Pippen, drafted Grant, drafted Armstrong, traded Oakley for Cartwright, replaced Collins with Phil Jackson, traded for Rodman, drafted Kukoc, signed Ron Harper, etc.
wow, really? lol...
Great rebuttal. Very convincing and backed up with a lot of facts
Does it really get any better in hours 3-10?
I also had no idea about the "Flu Game" really being food poisoning. They seemed to infer that the food poisoning was done on purpose, at least that's how I took it. Not sure if anyone else feels that way.
Didn't watch a minute of it, but from what I've read it really wasn't a documentary. Jordan had to give the OK of the material.
I don’t buy it. If you are trying to poison him, you don’t have 5 people showing up. My guess is they all showed up just to see MJ. It was a late night (10:30 order), and Utah doesn’t have much of a night life. My guess is something was left out too long. Especially after seeing the documentary (didn’t realize MJ ate the whole pizza), the intentional food poisoning theory seems less plausible
I’m not sure what more the documentary could’ve been besides people wanting it to make MJ look bad. On the court that’s impossible. Off the court, maybe but that wouldn’t change what he and that team did in the 90s.
Utah is notorious for being a pain in the butt to play at for opposing fans. Some players have come out and spoken about certain comments the fans have made. Didn't Westbrook and a fan get into it recently?
Quote:
regarding it being intentional, there have been conspiracy theories involving that for years. Utah fans were pretty rough (you saw MJ’s children talking about how their mother wouldn’t even let them go to Utah home games), so I think that fed into the conspiracies
Utah is notorious for being a pain in the butt to play at for opposing fans. Some players have come out and spoken about certain comments the fans have made. Didn't Westbrook and a fan get into it recently?
Yes. Guy got a lifetime ban if I recall.
That’s how they handled Rodman. Phil Jackson really handled it properly. If you have a young team, and a young player does that, you are handling that differently. Bulls had a veteran team, and Rodman was one of a kind. He showed up in the games when they needed it most. As Jackson alluded to, you weren’t going to start Dickie Simpson’s against Malone
Yeah, Jordan talked about his return to practice and Phil was making them run and Jordan told the team to take it slow so Rodman could ease back in. But Rodman picked up right where he left off and was leading the pack. Rodman's back story is really something. He hit a growth spurt after graduating HS and then average something like 22/12 in college. I also loved hearing him talk about his film study of shooters and the spin of the ball and getting into the right position to get the rebound. My AAU coach always talked about that.
That being said, it was still a great watch.
Yeah, the fact Krause announced before the season that it would be Phil's last is odd. But I also think it was ego driven and Krause wanted to prove he played more of a roll in the success than he was given.
Was texting with friends about this last night. If they stayed together, they probably win in '99 due to the shortened season and the rest it would have given them. Which makes me wonder what the domino effect would have been around the league. Specifically the Lakers
Quote:
Following his absence too.
Yeah, Jordan talked about his return to practice and Phil was making them run and Jordan told the team to take it slow so Rodman could ease back in. But Rodman picked up right where he left off and was leading the pack. Rodman's back story is really something. He hit a growth spurt after graduating HS and then average something like 22/12 in college. I also loved hearing him talk about his film study of shooters and the spin of the ball and getting into the right position to get the rebound. My AAU coach always talked about that.
That was the trip to Vegas, not the skipping out to go to WWE during the Finals. Rodman has a 30/30. I need to watch that.
That was the biggest thing I learned too. I had read that Jordan wanted to come back, but I didn’t realize how adamant he was about it. I really wish there was more about that. I could go for a part 11 on that one.
If you recall Reinsdorf being interviewed at the end, he was really adamant about not wanting to pay all these big salaries for players that were role players on a championship team. If I recall from 20 years ago, it was a luxury tax thing.
So Reinsdorf was really fine with it.
Krause has a scout’s background. I think he preferred team building rather than team maintaining, and his ego did get in the way.
I don’t know how I feel about it to this day. On the one hand, it would have been nice to go after another championship. But on the other hand, it was nice to go out on top.
It’s kind of hard to tell what would have happened the next year, as you get into a butterfly effect game. The Knicks were tough, the Pacers were tough. Who knows
Jesus! I had never heard that. Sounds like Duke fans
eh, it seemed like the Kerr story (which was already widely known) was shoehorned in to fill time. It was as if the director just said "hey, this is interesting, let's just add it".
the owner was cheap. Probably not any more complicated than that. Jordan was paid $33 million in his last year and the rest of the team was due to get paid, including Pippen who got a huge deal from Houston.
Quote:
Even though I knew about his old man. I believe ASU students chanted 'PLO!' at Kerr when he was at the FT post his father's death. Talk about low class, my God.
eh, it seemed like the Kerr story (which was already widely known) was shoehorned in to fill time. It was as if the director just said "hey, this is interesting, let's just add it".
I dont know, they were setting up the storyline for Kerr's '97 title clinching shot... plus you had access to the current Warriors HC who is popular these days too so i didnt have a problem with it.
I thought it was well done... yeah obviously a little too much from Jordan's perspective and not always reality - thought some of the putdowns of Clyde Drexler, the Knicks teams, the poor rookie on the Jazz who may have said something to Jordan about his retirement (but we know Jordan lied and made up stories at times to generate inner bulletin board material) -- making it sound like George Karl didnt say hi to him at a dinner one night and thats why Jordan played well against the Sonics (...ok...)... or inferring that Gary Payton didnt actually play well against him in games 4-5, insinuating that Jordan just wanted to purposely lose so he could win the title on Fathers Day on the home court ... all seemed like a stretch.
But incredibly entertaining series, I had no issues with the jumping around between years and detailing all of their title runs. And just too bad its over now. Not sure what ESPN was trying to say midway through about detailing Jackson's 5 Lakers titles in a future documentary (i think it was a joke?) - not sure how you do that without Kobe unfortunately.
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
LOL....
In the world of pandemics and the uncertainly of life, at least we can always count on Stan being a complete douchebag....
IGAWA! TIGER!
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
Genius right here. Michael Jordan is terrible because he didn’t win championships at the age of 38 and 39 with the Wizards, after a three year retirement.
As for not winning his first few years in the league, his 3rd year, the most notable players on the team were what? Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, and Charles Oakley?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq? How many championships did Lebron win before teaming up with another HOFer, and an All-Star?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq?
I agree generally with your post but thought this one was a little odd - he won two without Shaq
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Lebron win his 1st 7 years and his last 4?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players around you. The coach...eh. Overrated.
Stooge.
Quote:
Like they've been doing for the last 30 years.
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
Genius right here. Michael Jordan is terrible because he didn’t win championships at the age of 38 and 39 with the Wizards, after a three year retirement.
As for not winning his first few years in the league, his 3rd year, the most notable players on the team were what? Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, and Charles Oakley?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq? How many championships did Lebron win before teaming up with another HOFer, and an All-Star?
Yes, I realize he won titles without Shaq. He won none before teaming up with Shaq, and won 3 of 5 with Shaq. Kobe also didn’t win the last 3 or 4 years of his career.
My overall point is that Stan is apparently calling Jordan a failure for not doing what any NBA player in history has been expected to do, and none has. Really, we expect a young Jordan to beat the loaded Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics with no one around him?
there is no such thing as a puff piece on a guy that won 3 straight twice and won every other accolade you can in sports--- has his own brand, and is the basis for what sports marketing is today.
The team wasn’t sustainable. It was an old team and a lot of them started declining fast. Rodman played less than 40 games total after that season. Pippin, Longley, Harper all declined rapidly afterward. Jordan was showing early signs of decline.
Quote:
to return. It still makes no sense why Krause wanted to break that dynasty up.
The team wasn’t sustainable. It was an old team and a lot of them started declining fast. Rodman played less than 40 games total after that season. Pippin, Longley, Harper all declined rapidly afterward. Jordan was showing early signs of decline.
There's a good article today on ESPN.com about that - Reinsdorf is interviewed for it. Bottom line, Pippen wasnt coming back - he got $67 million from the Rockets that offseason. Plus apparently Jordan cut himself pretty badly with a cigar cutter that offseason too.
follow up article on why Bulls werent coming back - ( New Window )
[quote] In comment 14906050 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14906021 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Like they've been doing for the last 30 years.
And the sad thing is that people still buy this junk.
Oh, and remind me, what exactly did Jordan win his 1st 6 years and his last 2?
Kinna hard when you don't have Hall of Fame players and the GOAT coach around you.
Genius right here. Michael Jordan is terrible because he didn’t win championships at the age of 38 and 39 with the Wizards, after a three year retirement.
As for not winning his first few years in the league, his 3rd year, the most notable players on the team were what? Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, and Charles Oakley?
How many championships did Kobe win without Shaq? How many championships did Lebron win before teaming up with another HOFer, and an All-Star?
Yes, I realize he won titles without Shaq. He won none before teaming up with Shaq, and won 3 of 5 with Shaq. Kobe also didn’t win the last 3 or 4 years of his career.
My overall point is that Stan is apparently calling Jordan a failure for not doing what any NBA player in history has been expected to do, and none has. Really, we expect a young Jordan to beat the loaded Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics with no one around him?
I agree with your premise, but your memory if failing you. There was no "before Shaq", Kobe was drafted in '96. The same year Shaq joned the Lakers.
I remember back in the 60's it was not uncommon for scores to be in the 130's. No telling what Jordan could average in todays game.
For me, it was interesting to get a glimpse as to what went on in the locker rooms.
there is no such thing as a puff piece on a guy that won 3 straight twice and won every other accolade you can in sports--- has his own brand, and is the basis for what sports marketing is today.
100% this! I hated that man and team and still can't die a happy man because the Knicks haven't won a title in my lifetime. However, I can appreciate the greatness I witnessed now that sports isn't my entire life like it was when I was growing up in the 90's
Forget Jordan and Pippin. Jordan alone exceeded the salary cap.
There was no luxury tax back then, so that wasn’t an issue. But being capped out would have prevented them from signing any free agents to replace aging players. Even if you accept the dubious assumption that Jordan and Pippin could have maintained their play going forward, how do you put other talent around them?
The summer before the last championship, Reinsdorf and Krause met with others in the organization, including the trainers. It was pretty much decided that it was the last hurrah at that time.
Krause gets ripped for his treatment of Pippen, but Pippen never averaged more than 15 points after he left the Bulls. He was at getting towards the end of his productive days as well.
Quote:
Pippen would have taken a one-year-deal to try and win #7 was total nonsense. Pippen was going to take the biggest contract. If the Bulls would have matched what Houston gave him, maybe he stays but I think it's clear Reinsdorf was not going to pay up to keep the band together. Jordan and Pippen alone would have exceeded the cap. His luxury tax bill was going to be insane.
Forget Jordan and Pippin. Jordan alone exceeded the salary cap.
There was no luxury tax back then, so that wasn’t an issue. But being capped out would have prevented them from signing any free agents to replace aging players. Even if you accept the dubious assumption that Jordan and Pippin could have maintained their play going forward, how do you put other talent around them?
luxury tax was implemented as part of new CBA after 98/99 lockout. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume Reinsdorf had a hunch it was coming.
Regardless, if Krause was half the GM he thought he was, surrounding MJ/Pippen with passable role players and ring chasing vets may have been difficult but not impossible.
Would you watch some tongue-bath documentary about the '90s Cowboys? Maybe you would. I sure as shit wouldn't.
wow, really? lol...
Quote:
Traded for Pippen, drafted Grant, drafted Armstrong, traded Oakley for Cartwright, replaced Collins with Phil Jackson, traded for Rodman, drafted Kukoc, signed Ron Harper, etc.
wow, really? lol...
Great rebuttal. Very convincing and backed up with a lot of facts