was very involved with the Jazz draft prep as recently as last month so this must be a sudden change.
“With a phone interview, you’re not able to see body language,” Perrin warned, “In a live interview you can see how guys react to certain questions that may not be facial. I feel you may get a better sense of how well they answer a question, how much trouble or the struggles they may have coming up with an answer. I personally think it’s better to see them live.”
The ability to understand a player’s personality from predraft interviews is of particular importance for the Jazz, understanding the culture in the state of Utah is unlike most other NBA cities.
“Personality for us is very big,” Perrin said, “Background intel is big with us. Certain franchises and I would not say us per see, but speaking in generalities, talent outweighs character, other teams would be character over talent, and other teams would be character plus talent. I would hope when we look at it character is big naturally, but talent is also big.”
While the Jazz are only scheduled to have only their first-round pick in this year’s draft having sent their second-round pick to Cleveland in exchange for Kyle Korver in 2018, having the opportunity to interview players that may have long NBA careers gives the Jazz to gather information about a future trade or free-agent target.
“When Dennis [Lindsey] came in, he talked about trying to do as many workouts as possible. We want to gather as much information about as many players in the draft as we possibly we can,” Perrin said, “We may in five years, six years, seven years down the road being looking at a player that we have worked out before, and have gathered information before he was drafted, and after he was drafted.”
An older industry guy to work under Rose makes a whole lot of sense. That being said Perry and Perrin had an overlap in Detroit so it's possible Perry had some say in this hire.
"Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell would not be with the Utah Jazz without the work of Walt Perrin. 240 characters aren’t enough to describe how important he has been to the Jazz. I’m selfishly sad he’s leaving us but he’s earned this opportunity."
Aaron Falk: Walt Perrin on Thanasis (Antetokounmpo): “Still a little bit raw offensively, but he’s a much better, much better athlete than his brother.”
"Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell would not be with the Utah Jazz without the work of Walt Perrin. 240 characters aren’t enough to describe how important he has been to the Jazz. I’m selfishly sad he’s leaving us but he’s earned this opportunity."
Rose, Aller and Perrin are a nice enough shake-up for now. Perrin’s been scouting this year’s draft class, too.
agree. Don't know much about these guys but hopefully they know what they're doing. To me, the bigger issue is what Rose's plan is going forward. Acquire assets and rebuild...or try to convert existing assets into better players and improve the team quickly.
RE: Hope he's better than the last exec they hired from Utah
@johnhollinger
Wow. Perrin is a road warrior, a fixture at every event with any even remotely relevant prospect. Good get for a Knicks team that needs to be scouring the land for young talent.
He'll be Chopped Herrin by the time the Knicks get done with him
about this guy but it does seem like a good hire. And its better then hiring some guy who has some connection to some superstar type bull shit. These hires seem like good strong basketball minds. Who knows if it will do shit for us, but im willing to give Rose a shot to build a front office and a team.
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
The Knicks are hiring Frank Zanin for an undetermined role for their front office, league sources say. It's not official but they're working towards a deal. He's currently in the Thunder front office but worked as a Nets assistant GM before that.
RE: NBA twitter seems to agree that this was a strong hire for the Knicks
More new blood in that front office the better. Rose needs to revamp that place and seems like he's doing that. Phil only brought on Gaines- huge mistake.
I have hoped and begged for the Knicks to build a functional basketball organization.
These steps do seem to point to Rose having a vision for what that might be. I really hope he can turn the Knicks into a decently run organization. I mean, sure, swing a big trade, whatever. That's fun too. But at it's core, that's still not enough. Stars need to be surrounded by good players and the best way to get that is to build an org that finds them and develops them.
i mean building a competent stable FO is almost as important as building the team right now. Unless this franchise gets some stability i dont think we will ever see a good team.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
Execs tend to deal with friends and colleagues they trust. Nobody liked Phil and nobody respected Mills - now we have three new guys (from three different franchises) plus Perry, who’s been around the block.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
With the NBA postponing the draft lottery and draft combine, and the draft likely to follow suit, as well as the league restricting access that teams have to draft prospects, Perrin was leading the Jazz in using new and different strategies to gather information on prospective players.
“The health performance group provides physical assessments and our scouting consultants, led by Walt Perrin, have been doing a bunch of very interesting projects,” Dennis Lindsey, Jazz executive vice president of basketball operations, said in early May.
Perrin has long been respected throughout the league for being one of the most well connected figures when it comes to NBA prospects and scouting.
Well if you're raiding orginizations of their talent evaluators
followed by a head coach. I’m not gonna complain too much if Thibs is the hire, but I’m hoping for a more inspired choice.
Thibs seems like an awful fit.
Karl-Anthony Towns says the way former Timberwolves head coach and president of basketball operations Tom Thibodeau treated young players is a “disrespect and a slap in the face to their development.”
“I think that I’m very blessed that I have a great front office. I have a great coaching staff,” Towns told WCCO’s Cory Hepola during a live interview at his summer camp. “We think we have the best coaching staff possibly in the game right now from a talent, experience and just culture standpoint. And the culture we’re building here is something special. So I’m a very happy. I’m very glad now we’re introducing [rookies Jarrett] Culver and [Jaylen] Noel to a culture that we possess now. You know, I don’t think the situation before it would’ve been very beneficial for them.”
While clearly referencing the Tom Thibodeau-led Timberwolves, Towns talked about how he felt it held back the development of the players.
“And that’s a disrespect and a slap in the face to their development, you know, and I want to make sure that they develop not only as players, but as human beings and as men. And, uh, you know, that’s what we’re here to do. And in Minnesota, the thing, one of the biggest things where Ryan and with me is like, we have to make sure our culture is not based on just basketball. This is a family atmosphere. Everything we do here in Minnesota has to be able to have a family. A family backing and a family thought process. And building people’s personalities, characters and showing them more of themselves. And you’re more than basketball.”
2. Defense is dead
Thibodeau’s calling card and claim to NBA fame was always defense. That’s how those Bulls teams won games and playoff series: by starving the opponents of points.
Here’s where the Wolves ranked in points allowed per 100 possessions in 2016-17, 2017-18 and as of Jan. 7 this season: No. 27, No. 25, No. 17.
. But Wiggins is on one of the single worst contracts in the entire NBA, and it was signed on Thibodeau’s watch as president of basketball operations.
Further, Wiggins has obviously regressed since Thibodeau arrived in 2016. He’s the rare lottery pick who got worse as his rookie deal progressed.
The problem with being in charge of everything is that everything is your fault, one way or another. Player development? It’s on you. Cap management? It’s on you. Roster fit? It’s on you. Whatever you choose to pin as the reason Wiggins is on one of the worst deals in the league, it’s on Thibodeau. He was responsible for all of it.
ran the entire organization and thet totally failed including on the defensive end
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
He was the one who signed Wiggins....and made the playoffs? lol. They had KAT, Butler etc. A top 8 team is now impressive?
He was an old-school coach in a new-school NBA. Owner Glen Taylor didn't need a Butler-induced drama to show him Thibodeau wasn't the perfect man to lead this talent-filled squad. Last season's Timberwolves should have been the perfect indication of that.
Three of the top 14 players in the NBA in minutes played last season were Timberwolves: Butler, Towns and Wiggins. That's an old-school way of thinking in a new-school NBA that recognizes the importance of in-season rest. Last year's Timberwolves attempted fewer 3-pointers than any team in the NBA. That's an old-school way of thinking in a new-school NBA that recognizes the 3-pointer is no gimmick. The Timberwolves of last season felt like a talented team that was winning plenty of games but wasn't enjoying it one bit. Thibodeau is a well-respected coach, but joy is not exactly his modus operandi.
And sure, you can say that you can teach old dogs new tricks. The Timberwolves rank 23rd in 3-point attempts this season, shooting six more threes than a year ago. And Wiggins' and Towns' minutes are down noticeably from a season ago; they rank 30th and 34th in the NBA in minutes, respectively. But though this has been a modernizing team this season, these Timberwolves are far from a modern team, and that's one more reason why Sunday's firing had an air of inevitability. What ended up being Thibs' final salvo as the Timberwolves' coach was this: With the Timberwolves up 27 points and a little over three minutes remaining, the coach inexplicably left his franchise cornerstone in a game where the Lakers' coach had already emptied his bench.-CBS
"Now, Tom Thibodeau owns the last two years of this team. The decision to give Andrew Wiggins full max. That's his. I don't understand, Rohan, why more teams don't utilize restricted free agency as a weapon. How many guys that go into restricted free agency actually wind up signing the one-year tender offer? I can't count them on one hand, the guys who actually end up doing that. And yet time after time teams elect to extend players early to avoid having to go to restricted free agency and run the risk. How different would it be if Andrew Wiggins was headed into free agency this year instead of having that contract extension in his back pocket? That's No. 1. Thibs owns all of this, the Jimmy Butler stuff, the Andrew Wiggins stuff, the dysfunction within the organization, that's all Tom Thibodeau.
"
"I do want to push back on one thing you said. I saw a very stiffly hair-gelled reporter tweet last night that Tom Thibodeau might have to become an assistant before he gets a head coach job again, that maybe he's lost some of his luster. You said he's still a high-level coach. He hasn't shown that to me. They've been better defensively since trading Jimmy Butler, but you look at their defense the last three years. They're 17th in defensive efficiency right now, bottom 20 mark the last two years—that's his calling card." Link - ( New Window )
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
Give me a break. Context is important. They broke a 14 year playoff drought with him coaching the team.
31-51. 47-35, 19-21 as HC with the Wolves. That's all the context necessary for me. 63 years old next season, I'm sure he's looking to develop a young team over 3-4 seasons...
Imagine Donovan Mitchell instead of Frank. Imagine SGA or Porter instead of Knox.
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
ran the entire organization and thet totally failed including on the defensive end
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
Agree with all of this. Thibs was bad in Minny but I like the idea of hiring him off being fired. He'll be motivated and he won't be GM. The guy can coach.
RE: We desperately need someone who can identify talent.
Imagine Donovan Mitchell instead of Frank. Imagine SGA or Porter instead of Knox.
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
I'm far from a basketball guru, but I think picking Obi Toppin would be a huge mistake. First off, he's 22. Second, he has slow feet. Third, he has trouble guarding on the perimeter and is too undersized to guard in the paint.
And Wiseman doesn't make much sense to me unless we're picking later in the lottery.
From what I've read and the little I watched, Ball, Hayes or Avdija sound like the best fits for the Knicks. Cole Anthony? Meh. Anthony Edwards? Potential is there, but sounds like there's a better chance that he doesn't reach it as he's way too inconsistent and erratic.
Has him 10th, mentions his defensive issues and says he’s good for a team with “immediate needs” aka upside is limited vs some others. He will score but that’s about it. Link - ( New Window )
Would be a horrible pick. Poor man’s Amare and is already 22 years old
Yep Toppin would not be a good pick. I also totally disagree that this draft doesn't have high ceiling guard talent. Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton can be stars and Weisman has real star potential with his versatility and athleticism.
Pure athlete who runs the floor with grace and jumps with explosive power.
SHADES OF: Amar’e Stoudemire (on offense), Jahlil Okafor (on defense)
PLUSES
Glides through the air for ferocious dunks; he’s a major threat in the pick-and-roll, cutting, and running the break. He also possesses a soft touch with either hand around the rim.
Nimble ball handler who can attack from the perimeter; he’ll be a weapon in fake dribble handoffs since he can facilitate, shoot, or get to the basket.
Good shooter from NBA 3-point range, but he hasn’t fallen in love with his shot like many modern bigs.
Strong playmaker. He makes quick decisions out of the short roll and could develop into a playmaking hub from the post.
Has the leaping ability and quickness to theoretically be an effective shot blocker.
MINUSES
Brutal pick-and-roll defender who displays little recognition or feel for reading a screen; he’s almost always out of position.
High center of gravity limits his defensive ability in the post. He’ll often get pushed around for low-post positioning—Zion would bury him under the rim.
Doesn’t change directions well laterally; he has tight hips, which means NBA offenses will attack him relentlessly one-on-one.
Poor help defender and rebounder who doesn’t play with great awareness or effort.
Lacks an arsenal of low-post scoring moves and is raw shooting off the dribble.
Instincts, build etc = very low chance he’s ever better than an average defensively and even that seems unlikely. Great athlete but on the block has very little to give. Would be a typical “sexy dunk” pick with a poor outcome.
but one thing that's been reported about him is that he wants to be here. Might not be able to say the same about other coaches we would want. In other words, he might be the best we can get. Atkinson is a Long Island guy and was previously on the staff, but it's possible he might have a few jobs from which he can pick. We can outbid any team, but other than that, it's not exactly an attractive job. Maybe it looks a little better after the draft/offseason.
Do you hire him now and let him coach whatever games are left? There is supposedly going to be a 2 week training camp..Gives him a slight head start on next season..
are higher than we think. He's a cheap, competent choice for the short term, and the front office can re-evaluate when the roster is further along. He also behaved like an adult last year during crazy circumstances.
T-wolves pretty much sucked worse before thibs and suck worse after thibs.
Thibs likely isn’t getting all that power and control here and to completely condem the guy for a bad max with Wiggins seems a bit harsh anyway. How many good GMs live to regret giving out max deals? Too many to count.
As Enzo mentioned at least thibs wants to come here and he does have legit coaching experience
Questioning thibs because of age and then assuming the Knicks are 3-4 years away as if that even matters, again, unfair.
Dan, He’s far from perfect but thibs isn’t nearly as bad as you’re making him out to be.
I’d be excited if we got towns only because I foolishly want anyone here but he sounds like a clown with this talk. And as stated he hasn’t won jack shit here yet. Off topic but I still think KP is an equal prospect maybe even better. Gun to my head i just might take KP over towns. Towns doesn’t play D at all for what I can tell.
But the age fixation is silly. It's a big reason why Malcolm Brogdon fell to the second round, which as everyone now knows was really stupid.
Don't want Thibideau at all.
It's not silly when discussing his physique and limitations. At 22 comparing him to a 19 year old is silly. Toppin at the same stage as some of these others wasn't even a 1st round pick, he developed. Most of these top talents will too.
don't particularly want Okongwu (for example) but he's 19. What he looks like in 2-3 years is likely MUCH different and he's already viewed as a top 5-7 pick so when discussing Toppin of course his age is relevant. Hayes won't even be 19 until July, Toppin turned 22 in March.
if the Nets trade Dinwiddie in some package for a third star, as has been rumored. All that trash talking he's done - plus the work he did to recruit Kyrie in the first place - and he'll be languishing on some garbage team when the Nets finally field their legit contender. I'd actually root for the Nets more in that scenario.
has mentioned that in the summer of 96 when the Knicks had a bunch of cap space, he offered Jordan a huge contract. But once Reinsdorf came in and gave him $30 million for 96/97, Jordan wasn't going anywhere.
So instead the Knicks used their space on Houston, Childs, and trading Mason for LJ. Even thought LJ had some big moments, they probably should have just kept Mason. And Childs was just a guy.
the Knicks thought they had a deal in place Mason and Oakley for Mourning. Ewing was already 33 but still a star and Mourning was only 24 and a superstar. The Knicks roster wasn't great but a Ewing/Mourning combo could have been interesting.
Not completely sure if it was just to get more money to actually sign with the knicks, but supposedly he heard about it at usa camp and got mad saying it ruined his plans
RE: Might as well throw in the Ewing/Shaq trade talks
our old friend Danilo Gallinari said he’d be open to a return. It probably makes little sense, but I’ve always been fond of him and am glad he’s carved out a nice career. We did just hire an OKC guy....
our old friend Danilo Gallinari said he’d be open to a return. It probably makes little sense, but I’ve always been fond of him and am glad he’s carved out a nice career. We did just hire an OKC guy....
the Knicks thought they had a deal in place Mason and Oakley for Mourning. Ewing was already 33 but still a star and Mourning was only 24 and a superstar. The Knicks roster wasn't great but a Ewing/Mourning combo could have been interesting.
That would have been a steal for the Knicks. Of course it didn’t happen...
Obviously every prospect has warts, but the top guys in this year's Draft have MAJOR flaws:
LaMelo - doesn't give a shit on defense and has shitty shooting mechanics
Anthony Edwards - ridiculously inconsistent and didn't play close to his potential. Sure, he could be Dwyane Wade or Victor Oladipo, but he could just as easily be Dion Waiters.
Cole Anthony - was disappointing at UNC before the injury. Am I the only one who gets Austin Rivers vibes from him?
Obi Toppin - discussed above
James Wiseman Jr. - motor runs hot and cold and has a very limited scoring range. I mean we already have a similar guy in Mitchell Robinson
Tyrese Hallburton - coming off an injury, slight in frame, not a great athlete
I haven't really read up on guys like Killian or Avdija, but maybe trading down would be our best bet even if we do land the first overall pick and have our pick of the litter. Trade down and get future rounders to add to our draft capital (so we would essentially have three first round picks for the next couple of years). I think I'm more comfortable taking guys like Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels, Patrick Williams or Devin Vassell in the late-lottery or late-teens over the top-rated prospects in the top-5. We need a PG in the worst possible way, but we shouldn't force anything.
It wouldn’t shock me if the guy we draft with the Clippers’ pick is better than the lottery pick, like Mitch/Knox. We also don’t know how these new execs feel about the current roster - they may not be as high on Mitch as us fans are. Maybe they take Wiseman or Oturu if they’re BPA, and deal Mitch for backcourt help? Nothing is certain right now.
Knicks were in advanced discussions with budenholzer
has had a much better career than he's been given credit for.
he's been good - but I think he's only been on a good team maybe 1-2 times in his whole career which keeps him off the radar I guess. Never made an all-star team either, however he did make a ton of money and was probably looking at at least one more big contract. Post covid, who knows.
Didn't realize Gallo was only 31 - I figured he was 33/34 by now.
“With a phone interview, you’re not able to see body language,” Perrin warned, “In a live interview you can see how guys react to certain questions that may not be facial. I feel you may get a better sense of how well they answer a question, how much trouble or the struggles they may have coming up with an answer. I personally think it’s better to see them live.”
The ability to understand a player’s personality from predraft interviews is of particular importance for the Jazz, understanding the culture in the state of Utah is unlike most other NBA cities.
“Personality for us is very big,” Perrin said, “Background intel is big with us. Certain franchises and I would not say us per see, but speaking in generalities, talent outweighs character, other teams would be character over talent, and other teams would be character plus talent. I would hope when we look at it character is big naturally, but talent is also big.”
While the Jazz are only scheduled to have only their first-round pick in this year’s draft having sent their second-round pick to Cleveland in exchange for Kyle Korver in 2018, having the opportunity to interview players that may have long NBA careers gives the Jazz to gather information about a future trade or free-agent target.
“When Dennis [Lindsey] came in, he talked about trying to do as many workouts as possible. We want to gather as much information about as many players in the draft as we possibly we can,” Perrin said, “We may in five years, six years, seven years down the road being looking at a player that we have worked out before, and have gathered information before he was drafted, and after he was drafted.”
So I guess Allan Houston is just kinda...there.
Well that's discouraging...
Link - ( New Window )
agree. Don't know much about these guys but hopefully they know what they're doing. To me, the bigger issue is what Rose's plan is going forward. Acquire assets and rebuild...or try to convert existing assets into better players and improve the team quickly.
I think i just had a mini stroke
Wow. Perrin is a road warrior, a fixture at every event with any even remotely relevant prospect. Good get for a Knicks team that needs to be scouring the land for young talent.
Feels weird for the Knicks to be doing apparently smart things.
@MikeVorkunov
The Knicks are hiring Frank Zanin for an undetermined role for their front office, league sources say. It's not official but they're working towards a deal. He's currently in the Thunder front office but worked as a Nets assistant GM before that.
Feels weird for the Knicks to be doing apparently smart things.
and doing them without much fanfare (not that fanfare is really possible right now, but still).
No sign of JD around these moves. Seems like Rose is quietly doing some good work behind the scenes.
But are we getting an NBA playoffs this summer?
Link - ( New Window )
These steps do seem to point to Rose having a vision for what that might be. I really hope he can turn the Knicks into a decently run organization. I mean, sure, swing a big trade, whatever. That's fun too. But at it's core, that's still not enough. Stars need to be surrounded by good players and the best way to get that is to build an org that finds them and develops them.
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
Quote:
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
Beat me lol
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Nothing official but multiple sources have said Knicks front office members Craig Robinson, Gerald Madkins and Harold Ellis will not be retained.
There goes Obama's fan support
@AdamSchefter
Would have loved to watch the Knicks lose the NBA Draft lottery that was scheduled for tonight. Even that, at this point, would have felt like a win.
By my count (google) at least 9 teams had 2 this past season, 2 teams had 3. Houston/Madkins were both assistant gm's for the Knicks this past season.
Quote:
.
By my count (google) at least 9 teams had 2 this past season, 2 teams had 3. Houston/Madkins were both assistant gm's for the Knicks this past season.
Gotcha. Thanks
And he was part of the Nets brass when it happened...
“The health performance group provides physical assessments and our scouting consultants, led by Walt Perrin, have been doing a bunch of very interesting projects,” Dennis Lindsey, Jazz executive vice president of basketball operations, said in early May.
Perrin has long been respected throughout the league for being one of the most well connected figures when it comes to NBA prospects and scouting.
Thibs seems like an awful fit.
Karl-Anthony Towns says the way former Timberwolves head coach and president of basketball operations Tom Thibodeau treated young players is a “disrespect and a slap in the face to their development.”
“I think that I’m very blessed that I have a great front office. I have a great coaching staff,” Towns told WCCO’s Cory Hepola during a live interview at his summer camp. “We think we have the best coaching staff possibly in the game right now from a talent, experience and just culture standpoint. And the culture we’re building here is something special. So I’m a very happy. I’m very glad now we’re introducing [rookies Jarrett] Culver and [Jaylen] Noel to a culture that we possess now. You know, I don’t think the situation before it would’ve been very beneficial for them.”
While clearly referencing the Tom Thibodeau-led Timberwolves, Towns talked about how he felt it held back the development of the players.
“And that’s a disrespect and a slap in the face to their development, you know, and I want to make sure that they develop not only as players, but as human beings and as men. And, uh, you know, that’s what we’re here to do. And in Minnesota, the thing, one of the biggest things where Ryan and with me is like, we have to make sure our culture is not based on just basketball. This is a family atmosphere. Everything we do here in Minnesota has to be able to have a family. A family backing and a family thought process. And building people’s personalities, characters and showing them more of themselves. And you’re more than basketball.”
Not sure I'd put a lot of weight into his words.
Not sure I'd put a lot of weight into his words.
And Thibs has won...?
2. Defense is dead
Thibodeau’s calling card and claim to NBA fame was always defense. That’s how those Bulls teams won games and playoff series: by starving the opponents of points.
Here’s where the Wolves ranked in points allowed per 100 possessions in 2016-17, 2017-18 and as of Jan. 7 this season: No. 27, No. 25, No. 17.
. But Wiggins is on one of the single worst contracts in the entire NBA, and it was signed on Thibodeau’s watch as president of basketball operations.
Further, Wiggins has obviously regressed since Thibodeau arrived in 2016. He’s the rare lottery pick who got worse as his rookie deal progressed.
The problem with being in charge of everything is that everything is your fault, one way or another. Player development? It’s on you. Cap management? It’s on you. Roster fit? It’s on you. Whatever you choose to pin as the reason Wiggins is on one of the worst deals in the league, it’s on Thibodeau. He was responsible for all of it.
Towns is happy to get his 20 and 10 and lose
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
Quote:
ran the entire organization and thet totally failed including on the defensive end
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
He was the one who signed Wiggins....and made the playoffs? lol. They had KAT, Butler etc. A top 8 team is now impressive?
He was an old-school coach in a new-school NBA. Owner Glen Taylor didn't need a Butler-induced drama to show him Thibodeau wasn't the perfect man to lead this talent-filled squad. Last season's Timberwolves should have been the perfect indication of that.
Three of the top 14 players in the NBA in minutes played last season were Timberwolves: Butler, Towns and Wiggins. That's an old-school way of thinking in a new-school NBA that recognizes the importance of in-season rest. Last year's Timberwolves attempted fewer 3-pointers than any team in the NBA. That's an old-school way of thinking in a new-school NBA that recognizes the 3-pointer is no gimmick. The Timberwolves of last season felt like a talented team that was winning plenty of games but wasn't enjoying it one bit. Thibodeau is a well-respected coach, but joy is not exactly his modus operandi.
And sure, you can say that you can teach old dogs new tricks. The Timberwolves rank 23rd in 3-point attempts this season, shooting six more threes than a year ago. And Wiggins' and Towns' minutes are down noticeably from a season ago; they rank 30th and 34th in the NBA in minutes, respectively. But though this has been a modernizing team this season, these Timberwolves are far from a modern team, and that's one more reason why Sunday's firing had an air of inevitability. What ended up being Thibs' final salvo as the Timberwolves' coach was this: With the Timberwolves up 27 points and a little over three minutes remaining, the coach inexplicably left his franchise cornerstone in a game where the Lakers' coach had already emptied his bench.-CBS
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
Um. Read the blurb... HIS defense was dead, the Wolves defense sucked, which supposedly was his calling card.
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
"Here’s where the Wolves ranked in points allowed per 100 possessions in 2016-17, 2017-18 and as of Jan. 7 this season: No. 27, No. 25, No. 17."
So we are praising for... 5-6 seasons ago when the Bulls went 50-32 with Pau, Butler, Rose, Mirotic?
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"I do want to push back on one thing you said. I saw a very stiffly hair-gelled reporter tweet last night that Tom Thibodeau might have to become an assistant before he gets a head coach job again, that maybe he's lost some of his luster. You said he's still a high-level coach. He hasn't shown that to me. They've been better defensively since trading Jimmy Butler, but you look at their defense the last three years. They're 17th in defensive efficiency right now, bottom 20 mark the last two years—that's his calling card."
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I know you don't mean that.
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
Give me a break. Context is important. They broke a 14 year playoff drought with him coaching the team.
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In comment 14906961 Jon in NYC said:
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I know you don't mean that.
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
Give me a break. Context is important. They broke a 14 year playoff drought with him coaching the team.
31-51. 47-35, 19-21 as HC with the Wolves. That's all the context necessary for me. 63 years old next season, I'm sure he's looking to develop a young team over 3-4 seasons...
50-16
45-37
48-34
50-32
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
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ran the entire organization and thet totally failed including on the defensive end
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
Agree with all of this. Thibs was bad in Minny but I like the idea of hiring him off being fired. He'll be motivated and he won't be GM. The guy can coach.
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
I'm far from a basketball guru, but I think picking Obi Toppin would be a huge mistake. First off, he's 22. Second, he has slow feet. Third, he has trouble guarding on the perimeter and is too undersized to guard in the paint.
And Wiseman doesn't make much sense to me unless we're picking later in the lottery.
From what I've read and the little I watched, Ball, Hayes or Avdija sound like the best fits for the Knicks. Cole Anthony? Meh. Anthony Edwards? Potential is there, but sounds like there's a better chance that he doesn't reach it as he's way too inconsistent and erratic.
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Yep Toppin would not be a good pick. I also totally disagree that this draft doesn't have high ceiling guard talent. Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton can be stars and Weisman has real star potential with his versatility and athleticism.
SHADES OF: Amar’e Stoudemire (on offense), Jahlil Okafor (on defense)
PLUSES
Glides through the air for ferocious dunks; he’s a major threat in the pick-and-roll, cutting, and running the break. He also possesses a soft touch with either hand around the rim.
Nimble ball handler who can attack from the perimeter; he’ll be a weapon in fake dribble handoffs since he can facilitate, shoot, or get to the basket.
Good shooter from NBA 3-point range, but he hasn’t fallen in love with his shot like many modern bigs.
Strong playmaker. He makes quick decisions out of the short roll and could develop into a playmaking hub from the post.
Has the leaping ability and quickness to theoretically be an effective shot blocker.
MINUSES
Brutal pick-and-roll defender who displays little recognition or feel for reading a screen; he’s almost always out of position.
High center of gravity limits his defensive ability in the post. He’ll often get pushed around for low-post positioning—Zion would bury him under the rim.
Doesn’t change directions well laterally; he has tight hips, which means NBA offenses will attack him relentlessly one-on-one.
Poor help defender and rebounder who doesn’t play with great awareness or effort.
Lacks an arsenal of low-post scoring moves and is raw shooting off the dribble.
They need to come out of the draft with a lead guard. Haliburton, Hayes or Ball for me.
They need to come out of the draft with a lead guard. Haliburton, Hayes or Ball for me.
agree 100% with all of this, though I wouldn't throw the remote they took Wiseman. I do agree its high time we came away with a star lead guard.
Seems like only a few years ago there were rumors that he would "crawl" to MSG to coach the Knicks
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Either Daniel Oturu or Carey from Duke
These guards seem overrated.I like Maledon,but the Knicks usually don't take guys like that,smart teams do
That handle would not work in a game yet, but I'm glad he's working on it. Seems to have decent touch as a shooter too
If your thibs would you want to do that?
Thibs cpachint harden or Irving and durant doesnt seem like a good fit
Don't want Thibideau at all.
Thibs likely isn’t getting all that power and control here and to completely condem the guy for a bad max with Wiggins seems a bit harsh anyway. How many good GMs live to regret giving out max deals? Too many to count.
As Enzo mentioned at least thibs wants to come here and he does have legit coaching experience
Questioning thibs because of age and then assuming the Knicks are 3-4 years away as if that even matters, again, unfair.
Dan, He’s far from perfect but thibs isn’t nearly as bad as you’re making him out to be.
I’d be excited if we got towns only because I foolishly want anyone here but he sounds like a clown with this talk. And as stated he hasn’t won jack shit here yet. Off topic but I still think KP is an equal prospect maybe even better. Gun to my head i just might take KP over towns. Towns doesn’t play D at all for what I can tell.
Would you rather be one of the trams out and start the offseason or do you say what the hell and want them to play?
Would you rather be one of the trams out and start the offseason or do you say what the hell and want them to play?
Even in a fake ass pandemic playoffs, I want the Knicks to play. Why not?
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With the top 12 teams in each conference, knicks would be in this tournament..
Would you rather be one of the trams out and start the offseason or do you say what the hell and want them to play?
Even in a fake ass pandemic playoffs, I want the Knicks to play. Why not?
i agree, does this mean i win my hail mary knicks make the playoffs bet on draft kings?
Don't want Thibideau at all.
It's not silly when discussing his physique and limitations. At 22 comparing him to a 19 year old is silly. Toppin at the same stage as some of these others wasn't even a 1st round pick, he developed. Most of these top talents will too.
Mitch Harden
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So instead the Knicks used their space on Houston, Childs, and trading Mason for LJ. Even thought LJ had some big moments, they probably should have just kept Mason. And Childs was just a guy.
Nelson likes to tell that story but I don't see any way Orlando does that. It's not like it was a slam dunk he was leaving for LA.
it depends which way the offseason goes and price
That would have been a steal for the Knicks. Of course it didn’t happen...
Just depends if Rose sticks with youth movement or if he tries to go all in...
Offseason can go in so many directions
70 game season, so some teams will come back to only play 5 games, that makes little sense to me..
LaMelo - doesn't give a shit on defense and has shitty shooting mechanics
Anthony Edwards - ridiculously inconsistent and didn't play close to his potential. Sure, he could be Dwyane Wade or Victor Oladipo, but he could just as easily be Dion Waiters.
Cole Anthony - was disappointing at UNC before the injury. Am I the only one who gets Austin Rivers vibes from him?
Obi Toppin - discussed above
James Wiseman Jr. - motor runs hot and cold and has a very limited scoring range. I mean we already have a similar guy in Mitchell Robinson
Tyrese Hallburton - coming off an injury, slight in frame, not a great athlete
I haven't really read up on guys like Killian or Avdija, but maybe trading down would be our best bet even if we do land the first overall pick and have our pick of the litter. Trade down and get future rounders to add to our draft capital (so we would essentially have three first round picks for the next couple of years). I think I'm more comfortable taking guys like Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels, Patrick Williams or Devin Vassell in the late-lottery or late-teens over the top-rated prospects in the top-5. We need a PG in the worst possible way, but we shouldn't force anything.
He did, but he'll always be remembered for A. being part of the Melo trade and B. going immediately after Kevin Love and Russel Westbrook.
The amount of guys the Knicks miss by one spot is staggering.
he's been good - but I think he's only been on a good team maybe 1-2 times in his whole career which keeps him off the radar I guess. Never made an all-star team either, however he did make a ton of money and was probably looking at at least one more big contract. Post covid, who knows.