"Now, Tom Thibodeau owns the last two years of this team. The decision to give Andrew Wiggins full max. That's his. I don't understand, Rohan, why more teams don't utilize restricted free agency as a weapon. How many guys that go into restricted free agency actually wind up signing the one-year tender offer? I can't count them on one hand, the guys who actually end up doing that. And yet time after time teams elect to extend players early to avoid having to go to restricted free agency and run the risk. How different would it be if Andrew Wiggins was headed into free agency this year instead of having that contract extension in his back pocket? That's No. 1. Thibs owns all of this, the Jimmy Butler stuff, the Andrew Wiggins stuff, the dysfunction within the organization, that's all Tom Thibodeau.
"
"I do want to push back on one thing you said. I saw a very stiffly hair-gelled reporter tweet last night that Tom Thibodeau might have to become an assistant before he gets a head coach job again, that maybe he's lost some of his luster. You said he's still a high-level coach. He hasn't shown that to me. They've been better defensively since trading Jimmy Butler, but you look at their defense the last three years. They're 17th in defensive efficiency right now, bottom 20 mark the last two years—that's his calling card." Link - ( New Window )
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
Give me a break. Context is important. They broke a 14 year playoff drought with him coaching the team.
31-51. 47-35, 19-21 as HC with the Wolves. That's all the context necessary for me. 63 years old next season, I'm sure he's looking to develop a young team over 3-4 seasons...
Imagine Donovan Mitchell instead of Frank. Imagine SGA or Porter instead of Knox.
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
ran the entire organization and thet totally failed including on the defensive end
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
Agree with all of this. Thibs was bad in Minny but I like the idea of hiring him off being fired. He'll be motivated and he won't be GM. The guy can coach.
RE: We desperately need someone who can identify talent.
Imagine Donovan Mitchell instead of Frank. Imagine SGA or Porter instead of Knox.
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
I'm far from a basketball guru, but I think picking Obi Toppin would be a huge mistake. First off, he's 22. Second, he has slow feet. Third, he has trouble guarding on the perimeter and is too undersized to guard in the paint.
And Wiseman doesn't make much sense to me unless we're picking later in the lottery.
From what I've read and the little I watched, Ball, Hayes or Avdija sound like the best fits for the Knicks. Cole Anthony? Meh. Anthony Edwards? Potential is there, but sounds like there's a better chance that he doesn't reach it as he's way too inconsistent and erratic.
Has him 10th, mentions his defensive issues and says he’s good for a team with “immediate needs” aka upside is limited vs some others. He will score but that’s about it. Link - ( New Window )
Would be a horrible pick. Poor man’s Amare and is already 22 years old
Yep Toppin would not be a good pick. I also totally disagree that this draft doesn't have high ceiling guard talent. Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton can be stars and Weisman has real star potential with his versatility and athleticism.
Pure athlete who runs the floor with grace and jumps with explosive power.
SHADES OF: Amar’e Stoudemire (on offense), Jahlil Okafor (on defense)
PLUSES
Glides through the air for ferocious dunks; he’s a major threat in the pick-and-roll, cutting, and running the break. He also possesses a soft touch with either hand around the rim.
Nimble ball handler who can attack from the perimeter; he’ll be a weapon in fake dribble handoffs since he can facilitate, shoot, or get to the basket.
Good shooter from NBA 3-point range, but he hasn’t fallen in love with his shot like many modern bigs.
Strong playmaker. He makes quick decisions out of the short roll and could develop into a playmaking hub from the post.
Has the leaping ability and quickness to theoretically be an effective shot blocker.
MINUSES
Brutal pick-and-roll defender who displays little recognition or feel for reading a screen; he’s almost always out of position.
High center of gravity limits his defensive ability in the post. He’ll often get pushed around for low-post positioning—Zion would bury him under the rim.
Doesn’t change directions well laterally; he has tight hips, which means NBA offenses will attack him relentlessly one-on-one.
Poor help defender and rebounder who doesn’t play with great awareness or effort.
Lacks an arsenal of low-post scoring moves and is raw shooting off the dribble.
Instincts, build etc = very low chance he’s ever better than an average defensively and even that seems unlikely. Great athlete but on the block has very little to give. Would be a typical “sexy dunk” pick with a poor outcome.
but one thing that's been reported about him is that he wants to be here. Might not be able to say the same about other coaches we would want. In other words, he might be the best we can get. Atkinson is a Long Island guy and was previously on the staff, but it's possible he might have a few jobs from which he can pick. We can outbid any team, but other than that, it's not exactly an attractive job. Maybe it looks a little better after the draft/offseason.
Do you hire him now and let him coach whatever games are left? There is supposedly going to be a 2 week training camp..Gives him a slight head start on next season..
are higher than we think. He's a cheap, competent choice for the short term, and the front office can re-evaluate when the roster is further along. He also behaved like an adult last year during crazy circumstances.
T-wolves pretty much sucked worse before thibs and suck worse after thibs.
Thibs likely isn’t getting all that power and control here and to completely condem the guy for a bad max with Wiggins seems a bit harsh anyway. How many good GMs live to regret giving out max deals? Too many to count.
As Enzo mentioned at least thibs wants to come here and he does have legit coaching experience
Questioning thibs because of age and then assuming the Knicks are 3-4 years away as if that even matters, again, unfair.
Dan, He’s far from perfect but thibs isn’t nearly as bad as you’re making him out to be.
I’d be excited if we got towns only because I foolishly want anyone here but he sounds like a clown with this talk. And as stated he hasn’t won jack shit here yet. Off topic but I still think KP is an equal prospect maybe even better. Gun to my head i just might take KP over towns. Towns doesn’t play D at all for what I can tell.
But the age fixation is silly. It's a big reason why Malcolm Brogdon fell to the second round, which as everyone now knows was really stupid.
Don't want Thibideau at all.
It's not silly when discussing his physique and limitations. At 22 comparing him to a 19 year old is silly. Toppin at the same stage as some of these others wasn't even a 1st round pick, he developed. Most of these top talents will too.
don't particularly want Okongwu (for example) but he's 19. What he looks like in 2-3 years is likely MUCH different and he's already viewed as a top 5-7 pick so when discussing Toppin of course his age is relevant. Hayes won't even be 19 until July, Toppin turned 22 in March.
if the Nets trade Dinwiddie in some package for a third star, as has been rumored. All that trash talking he's done - plus the work he did to recruit Kyrie in the first place - and he'll be languishing on some garbage team when the Nets finally field their legit contender. I'd actually root for the Nets more in that scenario.
has mentioned that in the summer of 96 when the Knicks had a bunch of cap space, he offered Jordan a huge contract. But once Reinsdorf came in and gave him $30 million for 96/97, Jordan wasn't going anywhere.
So instead the Knicks used their space on Houston, Childs, and trading Mason for LJ. Even thought LJ had some big moments, they probably should have just kept Mason. And Childs was just a guy.
the Knicks thought they had a deal in place Mason and Oakley for Mourning. Ewing was already 33 but still a star and Mourning was only 24 and a superstar. The Knicks roster wasn't great but a Ewing/Mourning combo could have been interesting.
Not completely sure if it was just to get more money to actually sign with the knicks, but supposedly he heard about it at usa camp and got mad saying it ruined his plans
RE: Might as well throw in the Ewing/Shaq trade talks
our old friend Danilo Gallinari said he’d be open to a return. It probably makes little sense, but I’ve always been fond of him and am glad he’s carved out a nice career. We did just hire an OKC guy....
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
"Here’s where the Wolves ranked in points allowed per 100 possessions in 2016-17, 2017-18 and as of Jan. 7 this season: No. 27, No. 25, No. 17."
So we are praising for... 5-6 seasons ago when the Bulls went 50-32 with Pau, Butler, Rose, Mirotic?
"
"I do want to push back on one thing you said. I saw a very stiffly hair-gelled reporter tweet last night that Tom Thibodeau might have to become an assistant before he gets a head coach job again, that maybe he's lost some of his luster. You said he's still a high-level coach. He hasn't shown that to me. They've been better defensively since trading Jimmy Butler, but you look at their defense the last three years. They're 17th in defensive efficiency right now, bottom 20 mark the last two years—that's his calling card."
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
I know you don't mean that.
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
Give me a break. Context is important. They broke a 14 year playoff drought with him coaching the team.
Quote:
In comment 14906961 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I know you don't mean that.
Also Thibs has the 33rd best winning percentage of all time. So he's won plenty. He just came up against LeBron a bunch.
97-107 with the Timberwolves winning... 1 playoff game. 8 seasons as a HC, 50+ wins 3 times... 50+ wins 1 time since 2014. Stud.
Give me a break. Context is important. They broke a 14 year playoff drought with him coaching the team.
31-51. 47-35, 19-21 as HC with the Wolves. That's all the context necessary for me. 63 years old next season, I'm sure he's looking to develop a young team over 3-4 seasons...
50-16
45-37
48-34
50-32
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
Quote:
ran the entire organization and thet totally failed including on the defensive end
He got them to the playoffs for the first time since KG...
He was then hamstrung with 2 soft players in wiggins and towns..
In Chicago he changed the culture..
If he brings a young offensive minded coach i habe no problem with thibs
Agree with all of this. Thibs was bad in Minny but I like the idea of hiring him off being fired. He'll be motivated and he won't be GM. The guy can coach.
We need guards but, if we pick in the 3-6 range, I really don't think any of the guards have superstar potential, I'd rather gamble on Toppin or Wiseman. Toppin may be ancient, but he's a late bloomer and I think his game will translate in the NBA.
I'm far from a basketball guru, but I think picking Obi Toppin would be a huge mistake. First off, he's 22. Second, he has slow feet. Third, he has trouble guarding on the perimeter and is too undersized to guard in the paint.
And Wiseman doesn't make much sense to me unless we're picking later in the lottery.
From what I've read and the little I watched, Ball, Hayes or Avdija sound like the best fits for the Knicks. Cole Anthony? Meh. Anthony Edwards? Potential is there, but sounds like there's a better chance that he doesn't reach it as he's way too inconsistent and erratic.
Link - ( New Window )
Yep Toppin would not be a good pick. I also totally disagree that this draft doesn't have high ceiling guard talent. Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton can be stars and Weisman has real star potential with his versatility and athleticism.
SHADES OF: Amar’e Stoudemire (on offense), Jahlil Okafor (on defense)
PLUSES
Glides through the air for ferocious dunks; he’s a major threat in the pick-and-roll, cutting, and running the break. He also possesses a soft touch with either hand around the rim.
Nimble ball handler who can attack from the perimeter; he’ll be a weapon in fake dribble handoffs since he can facilitate, shoot, or get to the basket.
Good shooter from NBA 3-point range, but he hasn’t fallen in love with his shot like many modern bigs.
Strong playmaker. He makes quick decisions out of the short roll and could develop into a playmaking hub from the post.
Has the leaping ability and quickness to theoretically be an effective shot blocker.
MINUSES
Brutal pick-and-roll defender who displays little recognition or feel for reading a screen; he’s almost always out of position.
High center of gravity limits his defensive ability in the post. He’ll often get pushed around for low-post positioning—Zion would bury him under the rim.
Doesn’t change directions well laterally; he has tight hips, which means NBA offenses will attack him relentlessly one-on-one.
Poor help defender and rebounder who doesn’t play with great awareness or effort.
Lacks an arsenal of low-post scoring moves and is raw shooting off the dribble.
They need to come out of the draft with a lead guard. Haliburton, Hayes or Ball for me.
They need to come out of the draft with a lead guard. Haliburton, Hayes or Ball for me.
agree 100% with all of this, though I wouldn't throw the remote they took Wiseman. I do agree its high time we came away with a star lead guard.
Seems like only a few years ago there were rumors that he would "crawl" to MSG to coach the Knicks
Mitch - ( New Window )
Either Daniel Oturu or Carey from Duke
These guards seem overrated.I like Maledon,but the Knicks usually don't take guys like that,smart teams do
That handle would not work in a game yet, but I'm glad he's working on it. Seems to have decent touch as a shooter too
If your thibs would you want to do that?
Thibs cpachint harden or Irving and durant doesnt seem like a good fit
Don't want Thibideau at all.
Thibs likely isn’t getting all that power and control here and to completely condem the guy for a bad max with Wiggins seems a bit harsh anyway. How many good GMs live to regret giving out max deals? Too many to count.
As Enzo mentioned at least thibs wants to come here and he does have legit coaching experience
Questioning thibs because of age and then assuming the Knicks are 3-4 years away as if that even matters, again, unfair.
Dan, He’s far from perfect but thibs isn’t nearly as bad as you’re making him out to be.
I’d be excited if we got towns only because I foolishly want anyone here but he sounds like a clown with this talk. And as stated he hasn’t won jack shit here yet. Off topic but I still think KP is an equal prospect maybe even better. Gun to my head i just might take KP over towns. Towns doesn’t play D at all for what I can tell.
Would you rather be one of the trams out and start the offseason or do you say what the hell and want them to play?
Would you rather be one of the trams out and start the offseason or do you say what the hell and want them to play?
Even in a fake ass pandemic playoffs, I want the Knicks to play. Why not?
Quote:
With the top 12 teams in each conference, knicks would be in this tournament..
Would you rather be one of the trams out and start the offseason or do you say what the hell and want them to play?
Even in a fake ass pandemic playoffs, I want the Knicks to play. Why not?
i agree, does this mean i win my hail mary knicks make the playoffs bet on draft kings?
Don't want Thibideau at all.
It's not silly when discussing his physique and limitations. At 22 comparing him to a 19 year old is silly. Toppin at the same stage as some of these others wasn't even a 1st round pick, he developed. Most of these top talents will too.
Mitch Harden
Link - ( New Window )
So instead the Knicks used their space on Houston, Childs, and trading Mason for LJ. Even thought LJ had some big moments, they probably should have just kept Mason. And Childs was just a guy.
Nelson likes to tell that story but I don't see any way Orlando does that. It's not like it was a slam dunk he was leaving for LA.