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offensive line

giantsfanforlife : 5/18/2020 11:48 pm
I think the giants will significantly improve in 2020.

Thomas, Hernandez, Shane or Gate, Zeitler, and Soldier will be the starting lineup; we finally have depth.

If you look at the Cowboys in 2014, Zack Martin was a tackle and no one taught he will be an All Pro guard. I think Shane Lemieux can be a good center within time. Their offensive line was one of the best (if not the best). Their defense was supposed to be the worse going into 2014 season; they weren't but they didn't have much pass rush that year. Their defense did okay and they went 12-4 that year. In 2016, their defense was okay with no pass rush, but went 13-3 with a good offense.

I believe our defense will be better and if we control the clock and time of possession, I think we can win a lot more games in 2020.

Remember, we don't know how our division will be and how the AFC North & NFC West will be (team change every year).

I don't think we will go all the way, but I see this team much better. We just have to hope for the best.
Get ready for to be disappointed when  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/19/2020 12:01 am : link
Pulley or Pio is the starting OC.

Lemieux has never played a game at OC and is a rookie. Gates isn't an OC either.

IMO Thomas starts at LT, and the RT job is up for grabs among Solder, Fleming, Gates with Peart on the roster but inactive.
I’m all for optimism  
V.I.G. : 5/19/2020 12:06 am : link
Let’s be optimistic that our starting C is yet on the roster
RE: Get ready for to be disappointed when  
giantsfanforlife : 5/19/2020 12:07 am : link
In comment 14906478 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Pulley or Pio is the starting OC.

Lemieux has never played a game at OC and is a rookie. Gates isn't an OC either.

IMO Thomas starts at LT, and the RT job is up for grabs among Solder, Fleming, Gates with Peart on the roster but inactive.


I think Peart and Fleming are backups unless there is injury. I think Soldier will start at tackle (whether if its left or right). Shane and Gate never played center but they have a chance to play center. I think they would be better over Pulley or Pio. Well see what happens.
Optimism is great  
Reale01 : 5/19/2020 12:13 am : link
We should all be optimistic at this time of the year. There is nothing wrong with that.

Your comment about Zach Martin is a bit off. He was highly regarded in the draft and many thought he would be a difference-maker. I do think Thomas could be a difference-maker for the Giants this year.

Time will tell. Go Giants!
Re: Zack Martin  
Jay on the Island : 5/19/2020 12:49 am : link
Most people knew that Zack Martin has all-pro upside which is why he went in the top 15. I don’t know where you got that idea that he was some surprise success story.
I appreciate your optimism  
Jay on the Island : 5/19/2020 12:56 am : link
But the Giants have a huge question mark in the middle. If Pulley is starting this season then that will impact the entire line.

I am not a Halapio fan but if he is healthy I would much rather see him as the starter.

Let’s just hope that either Nick Gates, Shane Lemieux, Kyle Murphy, or Tyler Haycraft run away with the starting job or they bring in a veteran like Justin Britt.

I am still hoping that the Giants trade for a center. Nick Easton, Bily Price, Forrest Lamp, and Austin Blythe are a few potential options.
I don’t understand the Cowboys comparison  
UberAlias : 5/19/2020 4:01 am : link
Are you suggesting out team is similar to theirs and their Oline and could do similarly well? Those Dallas lines had pro bowlers up and down. Is that what you think we have here?
My guess is that Nick Gates will be our starting center in  
Ira : 5/19/2020 4:52 am : link
September.
RE: Re: Zack Martin  
robbieballs2003 : 5/19/2020 6:35 am : link
In comment 14906490 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Most people knew that Zack Martin has all-pro upside which is why he went in the top 15. I don’t know where you got that idea that he was some surprise success story.


Exactly. There were arguments about him, Beckham, and Donald with our pick. You don't get drafted that high in the draft without some serious expectations.
It is not just the talent  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/19/2020 7:04 am : link
it is also the improvement in coaching.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  
Klaatu : 5/19/2020 7:37 am : link
Right now, Center is our weakest link. Still a huge question about who will start, and until that question is answered, it's impossible to know how effective the offensive line will be. If there's any bright spot in all this uncertainty, though, it's that at least there will be more players vying for the chance to win the job then we've had in the recent past. It's not much, but it's something.
Too Many What If's and Limited Off Season  
NJLCO : 5/19/2020 8:09 am : link
My hope is that we do improve on both sides of the ball. The offensive line will need time to work together and act like one unit. This off season doesn't help....on paper vs on field is a whole different kind of animal. Will H and Nate S must step up and act like they have been playing together for 3 years. There shouldn't be any hiccups with basic stunts etc. We can't be playing from behind too many games. Less pressure on the O early on would be best.
RE: A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  
V.I.G. : 5/19/2020 8:18 am : link
In comment 14906507 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Right now, Center is our weakest link. Still a huge question about who will start, and until that question is answered, it's impossible to know how effective the offensive line will be. If there's any bright spot in all this uncertainty, though, it's that at least there will be more players vying for the chance to win the job then we've had in the recent past. It's not much, but it's something.

Solder is our weakest link
I really like the Shane Lemieux pick too.....  
Simms11 : 5/19/2020 8:30 am : link
I think he’s got starter in him. Not so sure he’ll play Center this year, but he’s working at it. See clip in link.
Link - ( New Window )
Reasons for pessimism and optimism  
BillT : 5/19/2020 8:44 am : link
We are probably starting 3 of our 5 starters from last year and our current center couldn’t beat out Halapio who was terrible. So, that’s a downgrade at center. Our one new starter is a rookie LT. Not one of the other 3 played well last year. That’s not a great look.

On the other hand Thomas should be better than Solder which granted is a low bar but better is better. Our guards certainly have upside over their 2019 performances and Solder could regain his form which would be better than Remmers was. Center is still a downgrade So, there is some hope as well.
Moving from LT  
Dankbeerman : 5/19/2020 8:45 am : link
to Guard successfully is much, much, eaiser then moving from Guard to Center.

Hopefully it works out. I do think Thomas is given the first crack at LT. Solder is gonna have to work his but off if he even wants to lock down RT. Fleming is a guy with conections to the coaching staff. I would slate him as RT before the competiton can begin and then Solder can try to beat him out.
RE: RE: A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  
Klaatu : 5/19/2020 8:52 am : link
In comment 14906516 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14906507 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Right now, Center is our weakest link. Still a huge question about who will start, and until that question is answered, it's impossible to know how effective the offensive line will be. If there's any bright spot in all this uncertainty, though, it's that at least there will be more players vying for the chance to win the job then we've had in the recent past. It's not much, but it's something.


Solder is our weakest link


Solder isn't nearly as bad at LT as Pulley is at OC, and right both are presumptive starters. Also, wherever Solder ends up on the line, LT or RT, he'll probably be joined at the hip with Levine Toilolo. The OC will be on his own at the point-of-attack for the defense, and won't always be able to count on help from the OG's.
I'm hoping for Gates or Lemiuex as the Center  
PatersonPlank : 5/19/2020 9:45 am : link
At least that way I can tell myself its a young guy and there is hope moving forward. Pulley is just a journeyman backup, and would basically be "giving up" at Center for this season
We have had years that we have only had 1 tackle on the roster  
George from PA : 5/19/2020 9:53 am : link
Solder, Flemming with highly regarded rookies is a world better then what we have had....same with guards.

Although, I feel Pulley can do a decent job at center....center is certainly the biggest queation mark...and weakest link.
Glad you've decided what the starting lineup will be...  
Torrag : 5/19/2020 10:16 am : link
have you informed Joe Judge?

???

RE: My guess is that Nick Gates will be our starting center in  
Jay on the Island : 5/19/2020 10:18 am : link
In comment 14906496 Ira said:
Quote:
September.

I hope that you’re right. I like Gates and I think that he has a future as a starter inside at guard. Hopefully he’s been practicing snapping this offseason.

I’m looking forward to the competition between Gates, Lemieux, and Pulley.
o-line  
giantsfanforlife : 5/19/2020 10:30 am : link
Maybe I am a bit off on Zack Martin, but the point I was trying to make was he got drafted at tackle and played well at guard. I think Center might be little harder to learn, but he can definitely be a good center (we have to see, but he's a good player). If Pio is healthy then he should start. Anyone have any updates on Halapio? We got guys there for competition and no one would thought the cowboys would have the best offensive line in 2014. It could happen to the Giants, never know. Plus the cowboys defense in 2014 and 2016 wasn't that good. If our line plays well and we control time of possession, we can win more games.
If the offensive line is anything less than stellar  
Metnut : 5/19/2020 10:35 am : link
next year then Gettleman has to go. He's already invested the #4 overall pick, a high 2nd, a $20M cap hit, and another significant cap hit for Zeitler.

I'm optimistic that the line will be improved but there's reasons for concern. Solder was horrific last year and is another year older. Hernandez struggled in pass blocking for large parts of the season. C is a mess and hasn't been addressed. You don't have to try very hard to see a line with a ton of serious question marks.

My optimism comes from the belief that I think our coaching was really subpar the past few years. A new coaching staff should hopefully have a real impact on these guys and lead to improvement.

Either way, it's put up or shut up time for this line.
RE: Glad you've decided what the starting lineup will be...  
Klaatu : 5/19/2020 10:40 am : link
In comment 14906594 Torrag said:
Quote:
have you informed Joe Judge?

???


He won't take my calls, even after I sent him several very nice gifts from Edible Arrangements. I'm tired of going straight to voicemail.

And to hell with that Restraining Order crap!
RE: Get ready for to be disappointed when  
Beer Man : 5/19/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 14906478 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Pulley or Pio is the starting OC.

Lemieux has never played a game at OC and is a rookie. Gates isn't an OC either.

IMO Thomas starts at LT, and the RT job is up for grabs among Solder, Fleming, Gates with Peart on the roster but inactive.
Currently, Pio is not on the roster.
Kind of all over the place in that OP  
LBH15 : 5/19/2020 11:04 am : link
Cleaning up a few things...Zack Martin was projected to be great at either Tackle or Guard coming out of Notre Dame. And that really has nothing to do with whether Lemieux will be able any good at Center or if the Giants even play him there.

Also, other posts projecting Gates at Center with some certainty are a bit optimistic. He played a little Guard and some RT last year. Gettleman was probably just throwing out stuff when he spoke to the press pre-draft about the Oline to get them off his back about fixing this unit.

While it would be resourceful if the Giant coaches can “manufacture” a Center out of somebody on the roster, it would be much better if the team can pick up an experienced one from another team’s roster move. Especially since DG didn’t cover this position in the draft this year.



RE: RE: A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  
Victor in CT : 5/19/2020 11:13 am : link
In comment 14906516 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14906507 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Right now, Center is our weakest link. Still a huge question about who will start, and until that question is answered, it's impossible to know how effective the offensive line will be. If there's any bright spot in all this uncertainty, though, it's that at least there will be more players vying for the chance to win the job then we've had in the recent past. It's not much, but it's something.


Solder is our weakest link


no, Center is the weakest link until somebody steps up and proves to be at least competent.
Both Solder and Center are problematic indeed  
LBH15 : 5/19/2020 11:18 am : link
but it’s May so maybe a solution will arise before Labor Day weekend on the latter.

Oh...and I don’t think the Giants will go all the way this year either.

RE: Kind of all over the place in that OP  
Jay on the Island : 5/19/2020 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14906622 LBH15 said:
Quote:

While it would be resourceful if the Giant coaches can “manufacture” a Center out of somebody on the roster, it would be much better if the team can pick up an experienced one from another team’s roster move. Especially since DG didn’t cover this position in the draft this year.

Several starting centers around the league made the transition from guard/tackle to center. I’m not suggesting that it’s an easy transition but I am confident that Lemieux and Gates have the intelligence and ability to handle the move.

I do agree that they should bring in a better veteran stopgap option. Spencer Pulley is not an NFL caliber player. Justin Britt is still a FA likely because he can’t take a physical at the moment or he can’t pass one. With their current cap situation I would like to see the Giants try to obtain Nick Easton from the Saints.

Gates has a nasty streak  
VinegarPeppers : 5/19/2020 5:23 pm : link
and is a smart guy. I like him for starting C in 2020.
i don’t see any way that giants arent operating under a huge handicap  
plato : 5/20/2020 12:27 am : link
caused by new coaches, new schemes, decreased team time on field, young team who haven’t interacted enough with other, units let alone whole teams have not integrated with one another, coaches, or schemes.

Doesn’t really matter whether it’s o or d, lack of cohesiveness all made more difficult by virus and its consequences. For all of Judge’s talk, ST’s may be excellent, but overall team play will be worse. Two wins or four wins, we just need to see if they grow as team during the season. that seems to me to the only realizable goal, and one we can judge from.
RE: RE: Re: Zack Martin  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/20/2020 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14906499 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14906490 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Most people knew that Zack Martin has all-pro upside which is why he went in the top 15. I don’t know where you got that idea that he was some surprise success story.



Exactly. There were arguments about him, Beckham, and Donald with our pick. You don't get drafted that high in the draft without some serious expectations.


I wanted Martin I’ve OBJ easily. He was a favorite of some. There we’re lot of Donald fans here too. Boy would the team have been better off picking either. Martin should have gone higher looking back. He only fell since teams and people thought a HOF OF wasn’t worth a top 10 pick.
RE: RE: RE: Re: Zack Martin  
LBH15 : 5/20/2020 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14907730 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Martin should have gone higher looking back. He only fell since teams and people thought a HOF OF wasn’t worth a top 10 pick.


Yep. Too many looking for easily noticeable impact in very early picks which is a fair but shallow approach. OL including Guards can provide the same impact and should not be discounted as much as they are early. Many on BBI fell into this incorrect thinking in this draft.
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