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another informative piece from Ed Valentine re Baker

Victor in CT : 5/19/2020 8:49 am
he interviews Daniel Wallach, a legal analyst for The Athletic. Wallach’s law firm, Wallach Legal, LLC, is based in Hallandale Beach, FL., which means Wallach knows the Florida laws under which Baker could be prosecuted.

Excellent take. What the low bail actually means, the difference between second hand witness statements to police at the scene vs. sworn, notarized depostions. Really good work.

Bottom line: while much better than originally feared, not nearly as good as some of the optimisitc proclamations from yesterday. Probably won't be resolved legally either way until next year.
DeAndre Baker case: What has happened, what it means, what might be coming next - ( New Window )
The article leaves out the possibility that charges could be dropped  
BillT : 5/19/2020 8:58 am : link
It’s certainly possible (who knows at this point) that if there were people at the party looking to set up Baker and Dunbar. When all the interviews are done and all the affidavits filed the DA could decide not to pursue the charges. That could happen much sooner and clear Barker and Dunbar.
innocent until proven guilty  
Hilary : 5/19/2020 8:59 am : link
My feeling is that he should be allowed to play until the trial determines his innocence or guilt in the eye of the law.
RE: innocent until proven guilty  
Victor in CT : 5/19/2020 9:02 am : link
In comment 14906537 Hilary said:
Quote:
My feeling is that he should be allowed to play until the trial determines his innocence or guilt in the eye of the law.


I agree. And sadly that standard seems to be going away in this country. A mer accusation can ruin someone's career for things far less serious than this one.
Regarding the trial going into next year...  
KDavies : 5/19/2020 9:04 am : link
Florida has a speedy trial rule. Those charged with a felony have to be brought to trial within 175 days from the date of arrest. That would put it before Thanksgiving.

However, right now jury trials are suspended through the end of June, so his trial should be done by the end of the year right now, unless there are further suspensions of trials should it go to trial
RE: innocent until proven guilty  
KDavies : 5/19/2020 9:06 am : link
In comment 14906537 Hilary said:
Quote:
My feeling is that he should be allowed to play until the trial determines his innocence or guilt in the eye of the law.


Agreed, but the NFL has made it clear in the past that they will suspend players regardless of any adjudication of guilt
The lawyer mentioned the possibility of case being dropped  
George from PA : 5/19/2020 9:16 am : link
....articles makes sense all around.

So unless case is dropped, Baker will not be playing this year.
RE: The lawyer mentioned the possibility of case being dropped  
UConn4523 : 5/19/2020 9:18 am : link
In comment 14906548 George from PA said:
Quote:
....articles makes sense all around.

So unless case is dropped, Baker will not be playing this year.


Why is that? If the case drags on for a year I imagine he will face some sort of NFL suspension but otherwise be able to play.
RE: RE: innocent until proven guilty  
fivehead : 5/19/2020 9:18 am : link
In comment 14906542 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 14906537 Hilary said:


Quote:

Agreed, but the NFL has made it clear in the past that they will suspend players regardless of any adjudication of guilt


Based on the NFL's stance, we should accuse the Dallas O-line of a crime before we play against them. They would be suspended until they could prove that they didn't do the crime. Brilliant!
The critical part of this attorney's summary of the case  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/19/2020 9:33 am : link
to this point is IMO this statement:

Quote:
“A sworn statement taken by a lawyer is going to carry more weight than an interview conducted by a police officer where the witness didn’t swear to it under oath. So the case(s) against Baker and Dunbar have been compromised by virtue of how smooth and sharp that these lawyers were in getting in there right away to get the witness to change their stories,” Wallach said.


I doubt it takes months for this case to be dropped or settled. But wouldn't bet a nickel on that.
RE: RE: The lawyer mentioned the possibility of case being dropped  
ron mexico : 5/19/2020 9:45 am : link
In comment 14906550 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14906548 George from PA said:


Quote:


....articles makes sense all around.

So unless case is dropped, Baker will not be playing this year.



Why is that? If the case drags on for a year I imagine he will face some sort of NFL suspension but otherwise be able to play.


How much confidence do you have that Baker will be a productive player after a likely abridged training camp and a suspension to start the season?

He has a big uphill battle here, IMO.
I believe the case will be dropped  
Rudy5757 : 5/19/2020 9:46 am : link
whether Goodell still suspends him is another matter.
Honestly I have no idea  
UConn4523 : 5/19/2020 9:47 am : link
but its no reason to quit on him unless his conversations with the team (Judge + DG) don't go well and aren't convinced keeping him is a good idea.

As a fan though I'll root for him to turn things around.
You can see it coming:  
81_Great_Dane : 5/19/2020 9:54 am : link
The dropped charges, the earnest quotes about how this was "a wakeup call" and about he "just wants to get back to football."

All of which could be true, but he needs to prove it with his employees, his teammates and his performance. Maybe he'll get his shit together, but maybe not.
I don't think a suspension is necessarily the issue right now.  
robbieballs2003 : 5/19/2020 10:01 am : link
The issue is if Goodell puts him on the Exempt List while this plays out. That is another reason he may not see the field if he is still on the Giants.
RE: I don't think a suspension is necessarily the issue right now.  
ron mexico : 5/19/2020 10:04 am : link
In comment 14906588 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
The issue is if Goodell puts him on the Exempt List while this plays out. That is another reason he may not see the field if he is still on the Giants.


Yes, if the charges don’t get dropped and he is placed in the exempt list, that would be a death sentence for his career with the giants.

Best case scenario as I see it is charges are dropped and he gets a 2-4 game suspension.
Uconn 4523  
George from PA : 5/19/2020 10:14 am : link
The commissioner will most definitely place him on the exempt list....if trial is a go.

No way...will he let a player on the field with that over his head.
RE: RE: I don't think a suspension is necessarily the issue right now.  
AcidTest : 5/19/2020 10:21 am : link
In comment 14906589 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14906588 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


The issue is if Goodell puts him on the Exempt List while this plays out. That is another reason he may not see the field if he is still on the Giants.



Yes, if the charges don’t get dropped and he is placed in the exempt list, that would be a death sentence for his career with the giants.

Best case scenario as I see it is charges are dropped and he gets a 2-4 game suspension.


Agreed. Unless the charges are dropped, he'll be placed on the Exempt List, which means he won't play this year. If the charges are dropped, he'll likely be suspended for a few games. How this affects his career with the Giants in that case is unknown. This certainly looks much better from Baker's perspective, and Dunbar's, that it did even a few days ago.
RE: Uconn 4523  
UConn4523 : 5/19/2020 10:28 am : link
In comment 14906593 George from PA said:
Quote:
The commissioner will most definitely place him on the exempt list....if trial is a go.

No way...will he let a player on the field with that over his head.


Yeah i completely forgot about the exempt list.
Dunbar says the 70k in losses  
ron mexico : 5/19/2020 10:32 am : link
Is completely fabricated and he has alibis for the prior nights.
Link - ( New Window )
Regardless of where this goes  
Beer Man : 5/19/2020 11:03 am : link
The Giants should prepare for 2020 as though Baker will not be part of the DB group or team. If things work out in Baker's favor and he is allowed to rejoin the team, that will be a bonus. But for now let the competition begin, and may the best man win to become the next man up.
It is really hard to believe in this day and age  
ChicagoMarty : 5/19/2020 11:30 am : link
of the ever presence of camera phones that no one recorded the event in question.

Most cases like this in my experience come down to the victim statements.

If the victim recants in full the case melts away imo

No harm no foul - literally

Nothing to prosecute
Dunbar saying he can prove that he wasn't even there, let alone  
Victor in CT : 5/19/2020 11:41 am : link
lost $70k.
Seahawks CB Quinton Dunbar's $70,000 in gambling losses 'completely fabricated' - ( New Window )
Not Low Bail  
Samiam : 5/19/2020 11:42 am : link
I heard a Florida lawyer say today that the bail was not low but was what the law prescribed in cases involving potential defendants that don’t have a criminal record and are not a flight risk. The amount per count is $25,000. So Dunbar had 4 counts and Baker had 8 counts. The 8 counts for Baker amounted to $200,000.
RE: Not Low Bail  
Victor in CT : 5/19/2020 11:43 am : link
In comment 14906654 Samiam said:
Quote:
I heard a Florida lawyer say today that the bail was not low but was what the law prescribed in cases involving potential defendants that don’t have a criminal record and are not a flight risk. The amount per count is $25,000. So Dunbar had 4 counts and Baker had 8 counts. The 8 counts for Baker amounted to $200,000.


thats in the orig story i posted
I hope  
PaulN : 5/19/2020 11:51 am : link
The kid is cleared and this really put the fear of God in him and he his attitude becomes exactly what you would want from any player.
I hope  
PaulN : 5/19/2020 11:52 am : link
The kid is cleared and this really put the fear of God in him and he his attitude becomes exactly what you would want from any player.
I think all of you guys  
allstarjim : 5/19/2020 3:54 pm : link
thinking he will ever play for the Giants again are kidding yourselves.

And that's regardless of the outcome of his criminal charges.
Why would he be suspended  
Reale01 : 5/19/2020 10:09 pm : link
if the charges are dropped? Yes, he COULD be and there is precedence. However, the NFL investigation may conclude the whole thing was BS and then no suspension. Those who pretend to know are just fooling themselves.

What IS true.

The NFL will investigate even if the charges are dropped.
A decision on a suspension will be reached based on that investigation.
He will not play until the case is settled if he is charged
He will never play if convicted
RE: I think all of you guys  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2020 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14906915 allstarjim said:
Quote:
thinking he will ever play for the Giants again are kidding yourselves.

And that's regardless of the outcome of his criminal charges.


Considering you spent a great deal of time this week stating his career is over and then going through the mental gymnastics of what that means, I'm not surprised at this take.

Let the facts come out. If he's done nothing criminal, he'll likely be a Giant and be on a short leash, you don't walk away from 1st rounders without giving a second chance.

Missing last week's voluntary team meetings is a bad look, but they are the be all end all and are voluntary. If or when he exhibits poor behavior going forward, it will be noticed a lot more quickly than with other players.
RE: Why would he be suspended  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/20/2020 12:01 am : link
In comment 14907130 Reale01 said:
Quote:
if the charges are dropped? Yes, he COULD be and there is precedence. However, the NFL investigation may conclude the whole thing was BS and then no suspension. Those who pretend to know are just fooling themselves.

What IS true.

The NFL will investigate even if the charges are dropped.
A decision on a suspension will be reached based on that investigation.
He will not play until the case is settled if he is charged
He will never play if convicted


+1
RE: RE: I think all of you guys  
allstarjim : 5/21/2020 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14907159 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14906915 allstarjim said:


Quote:


thinking he will ever play for the Giants again are kidding yourselves.

And that's regardless of the outcome of his criminal charges.



Considering you spent a great deal of time this week stating his career is over and then going through the mental gymnastics of what that means, I'm not surprised at this take.

Let the facts come out. If he's done nothing criminal, he'll likely be a Giant and be on a short leash, you don't walk away from 1st rounders without giving a second chance.

Missing last week's voluntary team meetings is a bad look, but they are the be all end all and are voluntary. If or when he exhibits poor behavior going forward, it will be noticed a lot more quickly than with other players.


I stand by everything I've said. Continue to kid yourself. He may get another shot in the league if his legal issues vanish, but he won't be long for the Giants' organization. I really believe that. New regime, they aren't going to brush this off when they are trying to set a new tone and culture.
My "Crystal Ball" guess is that Baker ends up pleeing to some  
SGMen : 5/23/2020 2:45 pm : link
stupid mis-demeanor and the felony charges are dropped by Labor Day or something. He gets suspended for the first games, no pay, and he returns to the team either a NEW MAN who grows up and takes life seriously OR he is cut by season's end, a sad pick and person.
I have a feeling this won't be a felony but perhaps some stupid mis-demeanor that allows him to still plays and not face a trial. Just guessing...
Even if the gets off  
XBRONX : 5/23/2020 3:09 pm : link
without be charged and not suspended, he needs an attitude change.
This is the problem with the NFL's conduct policy  
Knineteen : 5/23/2020 3:17 pm : link
what the hell do they do with Baker?
RE: RE: RE: I think all of you guys  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/23/2020 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14908209 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14907159 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 14906915 allstarjim said:


Quote:


thinking he will ever play for the Giants again are kidding yourselves.

And that's regardless of the outcome of his criminal charges.



Considering you spent a great deal of time this week stating his career is over and then going through the mental gymnastics of what that means, I'm not surprised at this take.

Let the facts come out. If he's done nothing criminal, he'll likely be a Giant and be on a short leash, you don't walk away from 1st rounders without giving a second chance.

Missing last week's voluntary team meetings is a bad look, but they are the be all end all and are voluntary. If or when he exhibits poor behavior going forward, it will be noticed a lot more quickly than with other players.



I stand by everything I've said. Continue to kid yourself. He may get another shot in the league if his legal issues vanish, but he won't be long for the Giants' organization. I really believe that. New regime, they aren't going to brush this off when they are trying to set a new tone and culture.


I guarantee you if the charges are bogus he's the starting CB on Opening Day.
Define  
ron mexico : 5/23/2020 5:26 pm : link
Bogus
RE: Define  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/23/2020 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14909615 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Bogus


He's found to not have done anything criminal
Or..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/23/2020 5:40 pm : link
the charges are dropped
That seems overly optimistic to me  
ron mexico : 5/23/2020 6:24 pm : link
But what do I know.

I wonder when he gets invited back to work?
Any formal comment from NYG yet  
LBH15 : 5/24/2020 8:55 am : link
on Baker?
RE: Any formal comment from NYG yet  
ron mexico : 5/24/2020 10:05 am : link
In comment 14909740 LBH15 said:
Quote:
on Baker?


Only formal comment was that they were aware and monitoring the situation.

The press revealed that they told him to stay away and focus on his legal issues.
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