Slayton is clearly the centerpiece of the passing offense, and I expect him to progress nicely. Hitting on a late round gem like him is such a great development.
The style, depth, and health of the other targets is a genuine concern. Tate and Shepard are slot WRs and neither have ever showcased the type of ability to be outside vertical stretchers. I'll be disappointed if the offense is geared around a lot of 4 yard in the air passes.
Shepard's health is a massive variable. If he makes it through 14 games that's a huge win. Tate is a year older, and while still crafty is not a primary outside target.
Last year the debate was how Engram and Barkley would be the secondary targets, and how the 3rd WR was the 5th option. Reality turned out the 3rd WR buoyed the offense and turned into the centerpiece.
I don't love a dink and dunk offense, and that's not Garrett's style either.
If Engram, Barkley, and Shepard play 16 games I can see a top 15 offense. If they don't, the Giants need a Slayton breakout from someone else.
I am secretly hoping that Coleman and Dillon impress. Having three burners like Slayton, Coleman and Dillon would actually make us forget the non-selection of a wide receiver in this last draft and scare the crap out of opposings defenses. It may be wishful thinking, but I can hope like everyone else at this time of the year.
I am secretly hoping that Coleman and Dillon impress. Having three burners like Slayton, Coleman and Dillon would actually make us forget the non-selection of a wide receiver in this last draft and scare the crap out of opposings defenses. It may be wishful thinking, but I can hope like everyone else at this time of the year.
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks Alan. My problem with evaluating Dillon is that LSU never threw him the ball. Why?
I am secretly hoping that Coleman and Dillon impress. Having three burners like Slayton, Coleman and Dillon would actually make us forget the non-selection of a wide receiver in this last draft and scare the crap out of opposings defenses. It may be wishful thinking, but I can hope like everyone else at this time of the year.
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks Alan. My problem with evaluating Dillon is that LSU never threw him the ball. Why?
I mean I don’t know about Dillon, but he played behind Ja’Marr Chase, Terrace Marshall Jr., Justin Jefferson...all first round talents.
I agree with your point about the lack of depth and consequently
being vulnerable to injuries. There were a lot of receivers drafted this year, which could mean a lot of veteran cuts at that position. One of those could be our 4th wideout.
I am secretly hoping that Coleman and Dillon impress. Having three burners like Slayton, Coleman and Dillon would actually make us forget the non-selection of a wide receiver in this last draft and scare the crap out of opposings defenses. It may be wishful thinking, but I can hope like everyone else at this time of the year.
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks Alan. My problem with evaluating Dillon is that LSU never threw him the ball. Why?
Because they had like 3 first round talents at WR. Now, that doesn't make Dillon great but for him to find time on the offense does say something.
I do think that if the top 3 can play close to a full season we are in solid, if not spectacular shape.
Someone will surprise us outside of these 3 and I think that Tate has a lot to offer still. ,,Shepard doesn't get much separation it seems from just watching on TV but he does make plays.
Slayton I think will improve actually...rooting hard for these three and the unknown.
We need not to lose these guys for weeks at a time again...
Big IFs I know
This year draft was loaded with receivers so would I be surprised if not all were selected? Probably not. I think Mack, Dillon, or Victor have good skillset (maybe 1 or 2 make the team). You make them compete with Coleman (when healthy is a reliable receiver). Also, team will cut receivers before week 1 and during the preseason, so it's possible we pick someone up. I remember someone asking Joe Judge about not drafting a receiver and he said anything can change from the draft till week 1.
Ohhh? I guess he never played on the Bills and Patriots?
During the HBO series Hard Knocks, Coleman became frustrated with not getting any first team reps and demanded to be traded. On August 5, 2018, Coleman was traded to the Buffalo Bills for a 2020 seventh-round pick.[25] He was released by the Bills on September 1, 2018.[26]
New England Patriots
On September 11, 2018, Coleman was signed by the New England Patriots.[27] Coleman was released on September 17, 2018, to create a roster spot for his former Browns teammate Josh Gordon.[28] On September 20, 2018, Coleman was re-signed to the Patriots practice squad.[29] On September 29, 2018, Coleman was released from the practice squad.[30]
If all healthy, a big IF, I suspect we see alot of 2 TE with Piololo
and Engram, maybe even 3 with Smith. I helps the tackles and the running game, and gives Engram room to free lance without having to beat a press corner.
And Barkley can catch it and do serious damage.
RE: If all healthy, a big IF, I suspect we see alot of 2 TE with Piololo
and Engram, maybe even 3 with Smith. I helps the tackles and the running game, and gives Engram room to free lance without having to beat a press corner.
And Barkley can catch it and do serious damage.
Yes, but it's not unreasonable to assume that Shepard is out with a concussion by Week 8 and Engram misses four games with menstrual cramps.
and Engram, maybe even 3 with Smith. I helps the tackles and the running game, and gives Engram room to free lance without having to beat a press corner.
And Barkley can catch it and do serious damage.
Yes, but it's not unreasonable to assume that Shepard is out with a concussion by Week 8 and Engram misses four games with menstrual cramps.
Aside from Slayton, WR is unfortunately a weak position group. Tate is on his fourth team and was suspended for the first four games last season. Shepard is one concussion away from having to retire. Coleman is coming off a torn ACL, and is also on his fourth team IIRC. The rest are most likely just for ST. Even Slayton is just going into his second year.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants just carry five WRs. If they carry six, then the last will likely be a veteran they sign after final cuts. One of the UDFAs has a chance, but my guess is that they are PS players.
But I am going to vote Coleman off the final roster and Dillon on.
Judge has made a point of saying that both his offensive and defensive plans will change from week to week depending on the opposition.
This means exploiting matchups on both O and D.
To do that you need as much diversity of talent as possible.
Tate and Shep are the same player essentially.
I think the only reason anyone leans towards giving Coleman a roster spot is due to his flashing a bit on kr's.
We need speed on O.
Dillon provides that along with Slayton.
I would think the OC would want one speedster on each side of the LOS
Binjamin gives you the height you want in the red zone so I agree with his roster selection.
Core has great gunner skills that you just know an ex ST coach like Judge will value.
Dillon can be the gunner on the other side of the LOS to Core.
So who is going to kr?
Javon Leake is your kr adn makes the roster at RB providing additional diversity of skills at that position. A change of pace rb who can catch the ball coming out of the backfield.
Penny gets jettisoned for Leake.
Tillman may get bumped for a fourth TE who can line up at FB.
The net overall impact on these roster selections is an increase in speed and athleticism at both wr and rb and probably at TE that will provide Judge with a panalopy of divergent skills and talents to diversify his weekly gameplans.
I'm throwing darts at a dart board with picks #5 and #6 at this point. I'm very serious when I say our #5 and #6 spots may not even be on the roster yet.
I agree with most of what you said except Penny. Penny plays specials and can run the ball when needed, catch, and block. And with this power O we want to run, even of we have zone concepts, Penny makes a ton of sense.
Also, imo, KR is such a minimized position. PR is much more valuable in today's NFL.
I agree that kr has been devalued and therefore Coleman's value has decreased.
But you still need gunners for the few kr's we see and of course for all the punt returns that our newly reinforced D will no doubt compel.
Where I might cavil a bit with you is the value of Penny.
Yes he can block.
Yes he is a good guy with a positive influence in the locker room.
But I haven't seen much if any running ability nor have I seen him do much for our passing game.
I think we the drafting of two young OTs we will likely be lining up two TE's frequently. This will be advantageous to both the run game and to the acclimation of our young OTs
If you are going to run two TE offense predominantly you will likely need four TEs. Engram's value is in the pass offense as a matchup problem for the D. Not much of a blocker.
So you have Engram, Toilolo - who should be a force; Kaden Smith - who impressed me last year; and then a selection amongst some intriguing new guys - Rysen John, Kyle Markaway and a not new guy Eric Tomlinson.
Does Penny really give you anymore than Tomlinson?
I think not.
And we just don't know about John or Markaway.
I am ready to roll the dice on new blood. At least it gives me some new guys to root for as the young guys slowly develop
would be to ACTUALLY USE BARKLEY AS A RECEIVER. I don't mean just dump-offs and screens, I also mean running routes. Find me the LB that guards him in space.
Of both Mack and Victor show two players who are possession WRs at BEST. NEITHER guy gets ANY YAC. Ever. Victor's only plus is he's a big guy who's a redzone target, corner-fade guy. But if that's enough to get him a roster spot, they're in trouble.
Going to be a lot WR's available after cut down from other teams
I am a big Hamilton fan. They went insane on WR picks in the draft. They now have Jeudy and Sutton on top of others. If they had faith in Hamilton I don't think they would have drafted 3 WRs. I am not one for giving up draft picks especially since we already traded away a future pick but Hamilton could be a guy that I would like to bring in even if it is for a late pick like a 7th.
They don’t really don’t have a WR who is a good red zone target and haven’t had one since Burress. Reese wasted a 3rd round pick (?) on Braden. I could see Benjamin making the team because he brings size to the table lacking in this group. On the other hand, Dillon brings speed and that’s also lacking. Both of these guys can make it if they perform as hoped for and can special teams. And, both, especially Dillon, played behind highly regarded WR groups in college.
Not a fan of college football but I did read somewhere that next years WR draft class is rated higher that’s this years which might account for Gettleman looking to fill other positions first this year.
They don’t really don’t have a WR who is a good red zone target and haven’t had one since Burress. Reese wasted a 3rd round pick (?) on Braden. I could see Benjamin making the team because he brings size to the table lacking in this group. On the other hand, Dillon brings speed and that’s also lacking. Both of these guys can make it if they perform as hoped for and can special teams. And, both, especially Dillon, played behind highly regarded WR groups in college.
Not a fan of college football but I did read somewhere that next years WR draft class is rated higher that’s this years which might account for Gettleman looking to fill other positions first this year.
Sy is on record as saying that the 2019 class was the deepest he's ever seen. He's also on record as saying 2020 is even better.
RE: This is probably the second weakest position group on the team
Like you, think first 4 WRs are set and agree that #5 and #6 may not be on the current roster.
But looking at the current roster, my picks for #5 and #6 are:
Bin Victor; 6' 3", 198 lbs. Ran 40 in 4.6 at Combine but ran 10 yds. in 1.51. Over 10 yds. that's faster than Jalen Reagor's 1.52, who was #1 pick of the Eagles and Brandon Aiyuk's 1.52, who is a #1 pick of the 49ers; has the 2d longest arms and wingspan (81.5")of any WR tested at the Combine and is much quicker than Reagor in the Shuttle. The only place where he is absolute rock bottom of WRs tested at the Combines is in lifts, doing only 9. So, on paper, big target at almost 6' 4", fast in the first 10 yards and shows some agility. At 4.6 in the 40, will be caught from behind and at 9 lifts, might have a problem with press coverage.
Derrick Dillon: 5' 11", reportedly ran 4.29 40 at makeshift pro day. Reputation as a terrific gunner on special teams, which gives him versatility. Cody Core and Derrick Dillon as gunners? So, terrific speed and versatilty make him a candidate.
Because of his versatility, Rysen John could have a shot at landing on the roster. 6' 7 1/2", 235 lbs and 4.6 in the 40. Played mostly WR at Simon Fraser and recently converted to TE. So, maybe versatility to play WR or TE, depending on match-ups. Harold Carmichael anyone?
they need upgrades but I think they addressed they rightly addressed the lines.
I think the way the game has changed at the lower levels will continue to feed many more WR's in later rounds in the draft. Let's hope someone shows well in camp they picked up. I think the biggest help will be when the Giants are able to control down and distance....with a running game.
I went back and looked at the WR/TE depth of the Super Bowl winners since the last Giants Super Bowl victory.
I put a star next to the guy with the best statistical season amongst the group. I am bored at work.
2012 Baltimore Ravens:
Marlon Brown
*Torrey Smith 65 rec 1128 yrds 4 tds
Jacoby Jones
Dallas Clark
Ed Dickson
Dennis Pitta
2014 Patriots
Julian Edelman
Brandon LaFell
Danny Amendola
*Gronk 82 rec 1124 yrds 12 TDs
M. Hoomanawuni
2015 Broncos
E. Sanders
*D. Thomas 105 rec 1304 yrds 6 TDs (zero games missed)
J. Norwood
O. Daniels
V. Green
V. Davis
This team was loaded with offensive weapons
But ironically is best known for a great defense.
2016 Patiots
*J. Edelman 98 rec 1106 yrds 3 TDs (30 yrs old and 0 games missed)
C. Hogan
M. Mitchell
D. Amendola
Gronk
M. Bennett
2017 Philadelphia Eagles
N. Agholor
A. Jeffery
T. Smith
*Z. Ertz 74 rec 824 yrds 8 TDs
B. Celek
T. Burton
2018 Patriots:
*J. Edelman 74 rec 850 yrds 6 TDs
J. Gordon
C. Hogan
P. Dorsett
Gronk
2019 Cheifs:
T. Hill
S. Watkins
M. Hardman
D. Robinson
B. Pringle
*T. Kelce 97 rec 1229 yrds 5 TDs
Of those 8 Super Bowl teams - I can certainly see a likely scenario in which Giants receivers match and/or out produce half of those groups: 2012 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks, 2017 Eagles, 2018 Patriots.
What is way more important than having a dynamic group of WR (although it clearly helps) is that you get superior QB play and have a defense that's worth a damn.
In my opinion, based on what I see here, the Giants aren't in a real bad hole with their collection of pass catchers.
What does Slayton need to work on to become a WR1?
Lots of ways to project productivity. Putting aside efficiency for now (targets/catch rate/YPC) -- for arguments sake let's say the goal is the Giants are a top 3rd passing team, which would roughly require 4K yards (based on 2019 rankings).
Based on career per game averages, this the average catching productivity multiplied by a fair number of games (my guess).
That gets you about 3650 pass yards. Now of course we're expecting 1) more productivity from Slayton and 2) requires only a cumulative 350 more yards from the 4/5 WRs, 2/3 TEs,2/3 RBs.
Seems pretty achievable.
Now imagine if Shepard and Engram miss a bunch of time, the league clamps down on Slayton, Tate loses a step.
That's where my fear lies. To be above average basically everyone needs to stay pretty healthy and hit their career averages.
RE: What does Slayton need to work on to become a WR1?
Quite frankly, if DG didn’t hit on Slayton last year this group would be a clear cut weakness.
The good thing is there is a fairly plentiful supply of WRs coming out of college these days so it doesn’t take long to turn this into a strength if you can avoid the headache types.
Positions that will need serious attention in 2021 include Edge Rusher and WR.
Quite frankly, if DG didn’t hit on Slayton last year this group would be a clear cut weakness.
The good thing is there is a fairly plentiful supply of WRs coming out of college these days so it doesn’t take long to turn this into a strength if you can avoid the headache types.
Positions that will need serious attention in 2021 include Edge Rusher and WR.
Yup. It looks like they made a conscious decision to put WR on the back burner for this year, and focus primarily on the O-Line and the Secondary. Let's hope for good health, and also for one or two of the UDFA's to shine, maybe even a guy like Sills.
if our draft picks this year on Oline really stick, and a solution is found at Center as well.
Otherwise a few more Oline picks will need to be allocated to this too.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
As I've said before, I figure this season will be mostly about evaluation, identifying problem areas that will need to be addressed in the 2021 offseason. The O-Line is no exception.
I understand prioritizing the line offensive line. It's an important focus area. If everything is important, nothing is so to speak.
WR is just one of the hold your breath areas. If everything goes great, they will be fine.
I remember last year having this exact debate and so many claiming how Tate, Shepard, Engram, and Barkley were going to light it up -- and it turned out a 5th round after thought was what kept the passing game potent.
Maybe there's another hidden gem on the roster who will step up if health and age conspire against the starters.
I went back and looked at the WR/TE depth of the Super Bowl winners since the last Giants Super Bowl victory.
I put a star next to the guy with the best statistical season amongst the group. I am bored at work.
2012 Baltimore Ravens:
Marlon Brown
*Torrey Smith 65 rec 1128 yrds 4 tds
Jacoby Jones
Dallas Clark
Ed Dickson
Dennis Pitta
2014 Patriots
Julian Edelman
Brandon LaFell
Danny Amendola
*Gronk 82 rec 1124 yrds 12 TDs
M. Hoomanawuni
2015 Broncos
E. Sanders
*D. Thomas 105 rec 1304 yrds 6 TDs (zero games missed)
J. Norwood
O. Daniels
V. Green
V. Davis
This team was loaded with offensive weapons
But ironically is best known for a great defense.
2016 Patiots
*J. Edelman 98 rec 1106 yrds 3 TDs (30 yrs old and 0 games missed)
C. Hogan
M. Mitchell
D. Amendola
Gronk
M. Bennett
2017 Philadelphia Eagles
N. Agholor
A. Jeffery
T. Smith
*Z. Ertz 74 rec 824 yrds 8 TDs
B. Celek
T. Burton
2018 Patriots:
*J. Edelman 74 rec 850 yrds 6 TDs
J. Gordon
C. Hogan
P. Dorsett
Gronk
2019 Cheifs:
T. Hill
S. Watkins
M. Hardman
D. Robinson
B. Pringle
*T. Kelce 97 rec 1229 yrds 5 TDs
Of those 8 Super Bowl teams - I can certainly see a likely scenario in which Giants receivers match and/or out produce half of those groups: 2012 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks, 2017 Eagles, 2018 Patriots.
Those statistical leaders are guys who do their damage over the middle. Don't know if we have that kind of receiver?
Well few people really factor in injuries and concussions
The style, depth, and health of the other targets is a genuine concern. Tate and Shepard are slot WRs and neither have ever showcased the type of ability to be outside vertical stretchers. I'll be disappointed if the offense is geared around a lot of 4 yard in the air passes.
Shepard's health is a massive variable. If he makes it through 14 games that's a huge win. Tate is a year older, and while still crafty is not a primary outside target.
Last year the debate was how Engram and Barkley would be the secondary targets, and how the 3rd WR was the 5th option. Reality turned out the 3rd WR buoyed the offense and turned into the centerpiece.
I don't love a dink and dunk offense, and that's not Garrett's style either.
If Engram, Barkley, and Shepard play 16 games I can see a top 15 offense. If they don't, the Giants need a Slayton breakout from someone else.
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks Alan. My problem with evaluating Dillon is that LSU never threw him the ball. Why?
Its his 4th year....but only 2 teams
Quote:
I am secretly hoping that Coleman and Dillon impress. Having three burners like Slayton, Coleman and Dillon would actually make us forget the non-selection of a wide receiver in this last draft and scare the crap out of opposings defenses. It may be wishful thinking, but I can hope like everyone else at this time of the year.
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks Alan. My problem with evaluating Dillon is that LSU never threw him the ball. Why?
I mean I don’t know about Dillon, but he played behind Ja’Marr Chase, Terrace Marshall Jr., Justin Jefferson...all first round talents.
Its his 4th year....but only 2 teams
Coleman was with the Bills and Patriots in 2018.
Quote:
I am secretly hoping that Coleman and Dillon impress. Having three burners like Slayton, Coleman and Dillon would actually make us forget the non-selection of a wide receiver in this last draft and scare the crap out of opposings defenses. It may be wishful thinking, but I can hope like everyone else at this time of the year.
Thanks again for what you do Eric!!!
Thanks Alan. My problem with evaluating Dillon is that LSU never threw him the ball. Why?
Because they had like 3 first round talents at WR. Now, that doesn't make Dillon great but for him to find time on the offense does say something.
Link - ( New Window )
Someone will surprise us outside of these 3 and I think that Tate has a lot to offer still. ,,Shepard doesn't get much separation it seems from just watching on TV but he does make plays.
Slayton I think will improve actually...rooting hard for these three and the unknown.
We need not to lose these guys for weeks at a time again...
Big IFs I know
Buffalo Bills
During the HBO series Hard Knocks, Coleman became frustrated with not getting any first team reps and demanded to be traded. On August 5, 2018, Coleman was traded to the Buffalo Bills for a 2020 seventh-round pick.[25] He was released by the Bills on September 1, 2018.[26]
New England Patriots
On September 11, 2018, Coleman was signed by the New England Patriots.[27] Coleman was released on September 17, 2018, to create a roster spot for his former Browns teammate Josh Gordon.[28] On September 20, 2018, Coleman was re-signed to the Patriots practice squad.[29] On September 29, 2018, Coleman was released from the practice squad.[30]
And Barkley can catch it and do serious damage.
And Barkley can catch it and do serious damage.
Yes, but it's not unreasonable to assume that Shepard is out with a concussion by Week 8 and Engram misses four games with menstrual cramps.
If not....we won't and will probably be making major changing
Quote:
and Engram, maybe even 3 with Smith. I helps the tackles and the running game, and gives Engram room to free lance without having to beat a press corner.
And Barkley can catch it and do serious damage.
Yes, but it's not unreasonable to assume that Shepard is out with a concussion by Week 8 and Engram misses four games with menstrual cramps.
LOL, but very true.
wait can you say menstrual cramps? ;-)
Aside from Slayton, WR is unfortunately a weak position group. Tate is on his fourth team and was suspended for the first four games last season. Shepard is one concussion away from having to retire. Coleman is coming off a torn ACL, and is also on his fourth team IIRC. The rest are most likely just for ST. Even Slayton is just going into his second year.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants just carry five WRs. If they carry six, then the last will likely be a veteran they sign after final cuts. One of the UDFAs has a chance, but my guess is that they are PS players.
Judge has made a point of saying that both his offensive and defensive plans will change from week to week depending on the opposition.
This means exploiting matchups on both O and D.
To do that you need as much diversity of talent as possible.
Tate and Shep are the same player essentially.
I think the only reason anyone leans towards giving Coleman a roster spot is due to his flashing a bit on kr's.
We need speed on O.
Dillon provides that along with Slayton.
I would think the OC would want one speedster on each side of the LOS
Binjamin gives you the height you want in the red zone so I agree with his roster selection.
Core has great gunner skills that you just know an ex ST coach like Judge will value.
Dillon can be the gunner on the other side of the LOS to Core.
So who is going to kr?
Javon Leake is your kr adn makes the roster at RB providing additional diversity of skills at that position. A change of pace rb who can catch the ball coming out of the backfield.
Penny gets jettisoned for Leake.
Tillman may get bumped for a fourth TE who can line up at FB.
The net overall impact on these roster selections is an increase in speed and athleticism at both wr and rb and probably at TE that will provide Judge with a panalopy of divergent skills and talents to diversify his weekly gameplans.
Also, imo, KR is such a minimized position. PR is much more valuable in today's NFL.
No argument.
Just projecting based on what we have now.
There is really nothing to lose with going with some new blood given our record the past few years.
Guys like Coleman, Penny and Tillman are pretty much a dime a dozen
This is a rebuilding year for sure so lets not be shy on making changes
But you still need gunners for the few kr's we see and of course for all the punt returns that our newly reinforced D will no doubt compel.
Where I might cavil a bit with you is the value of Penny.
Yes he can block.
Yes he is a good guy with a positive influence in the locker room.
But I haven't seen much if any running ability nor have I seen him do much for our passing game.
I think we the drafting of two young OTs we will likely be lining up two TE's frequently. This will be advantageous to both the run game and to the acclimation of our young OTs
If you are going to run two TE offense predominantly you will likely need four TEs. Engram's value is in the pass offense as a matchup problem for the D. Not much of a blocker.
So you have Engram, Toilolo - who should be a force; Kaden Smith - who impressed me last year; and then a selection amongst some intriguing new guys - Rysen John, Kyle Markaway and a not new guy Eric Tomlinson.
Does Penny really give you anymore than Tomlinson?
I think not.
And we just don't know about John or Markaway.
I am ready to roll the dice on new blood. At least it gives me some new guys to root for as the young guys slowly develop
As I said in the overview, they couldn't have picked a better team to sign with.
Not a fan of college football but I did read somewhere that next years WR draft class is rated higher that’s this years which might account for Gettleman looking to fill other positions first this year.
Not a fan of college football but I did read somewhere that next years WR draft class is rated higher that’s this years which might account for Gettleman looking to fill other positions first this year.
Sy is on record as saying that the 2019 class was the deepest he's ever seen. He's also on record as saying 2020 is even better.
You can make that argument. You can also make the argument that it could be the weakest very quickly with one injury.
But looking at the current roster, my picks for #5 and #6 are:
Bin Victor; 6' 3", 198 lbs. Ran 40 in 4.6 at Combine but ran 10 yds. in 1.51. Over 10 yds. that's faster than Jalen Reagor's 1.52, who was #1 pick of the Eagles and Brandon Aiyuk's 1.52, who is a #1 pick of the 49ers; has the 2d longest arms and wingspan (81.5")of any WR tested at the Combine and is much quicker than Reagor in the Shuttle. The only place where he is absolute rock bottom of WRs tested at the Combines is in lifts, doing only 9. So, on paper, big target at almost 6' 4", fast in the first 10 yards and shows some agility. At 4.6 in the 40, will be caught from behind and at 9 lifts, might have a problem with press coverage.
Derrick Dillon: 5' 11", reportedly ran 4.29 40 at makeshift pro day. Reputation as a terrific gunner on special teams, which gives him versatility. Cody Core and Derrick Dillon as gunners? So, terrific speed and versatilty make him a candidate.
Because of his versatility, Rysen John could have a shot at landing on the roster. 6' 7 1/2", 235 lbs and 4.6 in the 40. Played mostly WR at Simon Fraser and recently converted to TE. So, maybe versatility to play WR or TE, depending on match-ups. Harold Carmichael anyone?
you nailed it with shep and EE. you can't rely on these guys to be able to play. they've proven they cannot stay healthy
tate is another year older and presumably isn't juicing. one of these years he will be toast as he's getting older. hopefully it's not this year.
they have 1-2 reliable players in the passing game. that is not nearly enough.
the giants may very well be picking 1st next year. this is just not a very talented team
I think the way the game has changed at the lower levels will continue to feed many more WR's in later rounds in the draft. Let's hope someone shows well in camp they picked up. I think the biggest help will be when the Giants are able to control down and distance....with a running game.
I'm worried about Sterling long term with those concussions.
Tate's seen his better days, Shep - how many concussions has he had College & pros ?
Coleman & Engram are the most naturally talented - now they're both damaged goods.
2021 WR prospects ....
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-draft-position-by-position-watchlist-headlined-by-alabama-ohio-state-prospects/
+1 ... David Sills is 6’3” and a former QB who had back to back 60 catch, 1000 yd seasons ... I’m sure he’s on Judges’ radar to get a good look see.
There are a lot of NFL teams that won NFL championships with a WR corp that aren't as good as what the Giants will be rolling out there next year.
There are a lot of NFL teams that won NFL championships with a WR corp that aren't as good as what the Giants will be rolling out there next year.
Does that analysis take into account the age of Tate and the very real health concerns with Shepard and Engram?
If the question was, in the abstract and if everything went really well, is this group good enough? Sure.
In reality Shepard missed several games with a very serious injury, Engram cannot stay on the field in any season, and Tate will be 32 on opening day.
Would you feel comfortable predicting each of those guys plays 13 games and meets their career averages in productivity and efficiency?
I put a star next to the guy with the best statistical season amongst the group. I am bored at work.
2012 Baltimore Ravens:
Marlon Brown
*Torrey Smith 65 rec 1128 yrds 4 tds
Jacoby Jones
Dallas Clark
Ed Dickson
Dennis Pitta
2013 Seattle Seahwaks
*Golden Tate 64 rec 898 yrds 5 tds
Doug Baldwin
Jermaine Kearse
Sidney Rice
Zack Miller
2014 Patriots
Julian Edelman
Brandon LaFell
Danny Amendola
*Gronk 82 rec 1124 yrds 12 TDs
M. Hoomanawuni
2015 Broncos
E. Sanders
*D. Thomas 105 rec 1304 yrds 6 TDs (zero games missed)
J. Norwood
O. Daniels
V. Green
V. Davis
This team was loaded with offensive weapons
But ironically is best known for a great defense.
2016 Patiots
*J. Edelman 98 rec 1106 yrds 3 TDs (30 yrs old and 0 games missed)
C. Hogan
M. Mitchell
D. Amendola
Gronk
M. Bennett
2017 Philadelphia Eagles
N. Agholor
A. Jeffery
T. Smith
*Z. Ertz 74 rec 824 yrds 8 TDs
B. Celek
T. Burton
2018 Patriots:
*J. Edelman 74 rec 850 yrds 6 TDs
J. Gordon
C. Hogan
P. Dorsett
Gronk
2019 Cheifs:
T. Hill
S. Watkins
M. Hardman
D. Robinson
B. Pringle
*T. Kelce 97 rec 1229 yrds 5 TDs
Of those 8 Super Bowl teams - I can certainly see a likely scenario in which Giants receivers match and/or out produce half of those groups: 2012 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks, 2017 Eagles, 2018 Patriots.
What is way more important than having a dynamic group of WR (although it clearly helps) is that you get superior QB play and have a defense that's worth a damn.
In my opinion, based on what I see here, the Giants aren't in a real bad hole with their collection of pass catchers.
Based on career per game averages, this the average catching productivity multiplied by a fair number of games (my guess).
Tate 16 (games) - 72/864
Engram 13 - 59/679
Shepard 13 - 61/708
Slayton 16 - 54/832
Barkley 14 - 69/559
That gets you about 3650 pass yards. Now of course we're expecting 1) more productivity from Slayton and 2) requires only a cumulative 350 more yards from the 4/5 WRs, 2/3 TEs,2/3 RBs.
Seems pretty achievable.
Now imagine if Shepard and Engram miss a bunch of time, the league clamps down on Slayton, Tate loses a step.
That's where my fear lies. To be above average basically everyone needs to stay pretty healthy and hit their career averages.
According to this guy, it's creating more separation:
The Dilemma at Wide Receiver
The good thing is there is a fairly plentiful supply of WRs coming out of college these days so it doesn’t take long to turn this into a strength if you can avoid the headache types.
Positions that will need serious attention in 2021 include Edge Rusher and WR.
The good thing is there is a fairly plentiful supply of WRs coming out of college these days so it doesn’t take long to turn this into a strength if you can avoid the headache types.
Positions that will need serious attention in 2021 include Edge Rusher and WR.
Yup. It looks like they made a conscious decision to put WR on the back burner for this year, and focus primarily on the O-Line and the Secondary. Let's hope for good health, and also for one or two of the UDFA's to shine, maybe even a guy like Sills.
Otherwise a few more Oline picks will need to be allocated to this too.
Otherwise a few more Oline picks will need to be allocated to this too.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
As I've said before, I figure this season will be mostly about evaluation, identifying problem areas that will need to be addressed in the 2021 offseason. The O-Line is no exception.
WR is just one of the hold your breath areas. If everything goes great, they will be fine.
I remember last year having this exact debate and so many claiming how Tate, Shepard, Engram, and Barkley were going to light it up -- and it turned out a 5th round after thought was what kept the passing game potent.
Maybe there's another hidden gem on the roster who will step up if health and age conspire against the starters.
I put a star next to the guy with the best statistical season amongst the group. I am bored at work.
2012 Baltimore Ravens:
Marlon Brown
*Torrey Smith 65 rec 1128 yrds 4 tds
Jacoby Jones
Dallas Clark
Ed Dickson
Dennis Pitta
2013 Seattle Seahwaks
*Golden Tate 64 rec 898 yrds 5 tds
Doug Baldwin
Jermaine Kearse
Sidney Rice
Zack Miller
2014 Patriots
Julian Edelman
Brandon LaFell
Danny Amendola
*Gronk 82 rec 1124 yrds 12 TDs
M. Hoomanawuni
2015 Broncos
E. Sanders
*D. Thomas 105 rec 1304 yrds 6 TDs (zero games missed)
J. Norwood
O. Daniels
V. Green
V. Davis
This team was loaded with offensive weapons
But ironically is best known for a great defense.
2016 Patiots
*J. Edelman 98 rec 1106 yrds 3 TDs (30 yrs old and 0 games missed)
C. Hogan
M. Mitchell
D. Amendola
Gronk
M. Bennett
2017 Philadelphia Eagles
N. Agholor
A. Jeffery
T. Smith
*Z. Ertz 74 rec 824 yrds 8 TDs
B. Celek
T. Burton
2018 Patriots:
*J. Edelman 74 rec 850 yrds 6 TDs
J. Gordon
C. Hogan
P. Dorsett
Gronk
2019 Cheifs:
T. Hill
S. Watkins
M. Hardman
D. Robinson
B. Pringle
*T. Kelce 97 rec 1229 yrds 5 TDs
Of those 8 Super Bowl teams - I can certainly see a likely scenario in which Giants receivers match and/or out produce half of those groups: 2012 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks, 2017 Eagles, 2018 Patriots.
Those statistical leaders are guys who do their damage over the middle. Don't know if we have that kind of receiver?